Multiclassing and Item Creation caster level [Archive] - Wizards Community

Multiclassing and Item Creation caster level [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
PoeticJustice
12-20-04, 01:15 PM I have a PC, an elf wizard/artificer that's concerned about his future. He plan to take levels in Artificer until he hits level five and can craft magic weapons and armor, as well as retain essence, and then take levels in wizard thereafter.
His concern is that he'll not be able to craft items requiring higher level spells for quite some time, as he'll be level 6 when he begins taking wizard levels.
He wants to house rule a feat that allows him to stack wizard and artificer levels for the purpose of item creation caster level and prerequisite soells requirement. As a DM, I've been fairly generous to this group (already given them a bonus level in their favored class at character creation that doesn't count towards EXP, as well as giving them a pretty swanky former Giant Stronghold to serve as a base in Xen 'Drik). I'm a little worried about balence.
I was thinking that if I made him take all the Artificer feats (legendary, exceptional, extraordinary) and a few others then I'd let him take a house feat that stacked wizard and artificer levels.
On the other hand I was thinking about making a prestiege class that, on the same note as Mystic Theurge, allowed a character to simultaneously advance Craft Feats, effective artificer level for the purpose of meeting spell requirements, and spell casting at th cost of bonus wizard feats, familiar advancement, craft reserve, and infusions.
This is really dilly of a pickle, so to speak. Could anyone offer advice?
PoeticJustice
12-20-04, 01:21 PM Apparently I am unable to read. I apologize for jumping the gun and posting this in the wrong forum when it should be in the Class forum. Could a moderator please move it there? Or should I create a new thread there?
Docrailgun
12-20-04, 02:57 PM I think that your players are trying to take advantage of you. He should probably decide what he wants this PC to do... if he wants the PC to make magic items, he should stick with Artificer. If he wants to blast things with fireballs, he should be a wizard. There's no good reason in Eberron for a wizard to waste feats on item-creation feats rather than metamagic feats when an artificer can do it better, nor should a wizard be wasting his XP on magic items anymore.
I have a PC, an elf wizard/artificer that's concerned about his future. He plan to take levels in Artificer until he hits level five and can craft magic weapons and armor, as well as retain essence, and then take levels in wizard thereafter.
His concern is that he'll not be able to craft items requiring higher level spells for quite some time, as he'll be level 6 when he begins taking wizard levels.
He wants to house rule a feat that allows him to stack wizard and artificer levels for the purpose of item creation caster level and prerequisite soells requirement. As a DM, I've been fairly generous to this group (already given them a bonus level in their favored class at character creation that doesn't count towards EXP, as well as giving them a pretty swanky former Giant Stronghold to serve as a base in Xen 'Drik). I'm a little worried about balence.
I was thinking that if I made him take all the Artificer feats (legendary, exceptional, extraordinary) and a few others then I'd let him take a house feat that stacked wizard and artificer levels.
On the other hand I was thinking about making a prestiege class that, on the same note as Mystic Theurge, allowed a character to simultaneously advance Craft Feats, effective artificer level for the purpose of meeting spell requirements, and spell casting at th cost of bonus wizard feats, familiar advancement, craft reserve, and infusions.
This is really dilly of a pickle, so to speak. Could anyone offer advice?
Kravell
12-20-04, 03:15 PM I think that your players are trying to take advantage of you. He should probably decide what he wants this PC to do... if he wants the PC to make magic items, he should stick with Artificer. If he wants to blast things with fireballs, he should be a wizard. There's no good reason in Eberron for a wizard to waste feats on item-creation feats rather than metamagic feats when an artificer can do it better, nor should a wizard be wasting his XP on magic items anymore.

My opinion differs. You know your players best, you should have an idea if they are trying to powergame or if this character combo really matters from a roleplaying point of view.

For instance, I've allowed a dwarf fighter/paladin to take a house feat that allows him to stack fighter levels with paladin levels for the purpose of powering paladin abilities. It's worked fine so far.

I'd recommend trying the first option (feat to stack artificer/wizard levels for item creation) with the understanding that you are playtesting the feat and may need to tweak it. Using up a feat to stack caster levels will not get the character all the artificer bonus craft XP or creation feats.

Basically, your player is willing to give up a lot of power (losing wizard levels) to be able to be a magic item creating wizard. I don't see a real problem with that, although I haven't playtested the idea of course.

I'd recommend against the second options (artificing theurge). Artificers can create unbelievable piles of magic items, which is balanced only because they can't do much else really well. Use Magic Device and item creation are the two biggest abilities they have, even bigger than infusions from what I've seen. I shudder to think about a spell casting artificer with full artificer class abilities.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
PoeticJustice 12-20-04, 01:15 PM	I have a PC, an elf wizard/artificer that's concerned about his future. He plan to take levels in Artificer until he hits level five and can craft magic weapons and armor, as well as retain essence, and then take levels in wizard thereafter. His concern is that he'll not be able to craft items requiring higher level spells for quite some time, as he'll be level 6 when he begins taking wizard levels. He wants to house rule a feat that allows him to stack wizard and artificer levels for the purpose of item creation caster level and prerequisite soells requirement. As a DM, I've been fairly generous to this group (already given them a bonus level in their favored class at character creation that doesn't count towards EXP, as well as giving them a pretty swanky former Giant Stronghold to serve as a base in Xen 'Drik). I'm a little worried about balence. I was thinking that if I made him take all the Artificer feats (legendary, exceptional, extraordinary) and a few others then I'd let him take a house feat that stacked wizard and artificer levels. On the other hand I was thinking about making a prestiege class that, on the same note as Mystic Theurge, allowed a character to simultaneously advance Craft Feats, effective artificer level for the purpose of meeting spell requirements, and spell casting at th cost of bonus wizard feats, familiar advancement, craft reserve, and infusions. This is really dilly of a pickle, so to speak. Could anyone offer advice?
PoeticJustice 12-20-04, 01:21 PM	Apparently I am unable to read. I apologize for jumping the gun and posting this in the wrong forum when it should be in the Class forum. Could a moderator please move it there? Or should I create a new thread there?
Docrailgun 12-20-04, 02:57 PM	I think that your players are trying to take advantage of you. He should probably decide what he wants this PC to do... if he wants the PC to make magic items, he should stick with Artificer. If he wants to blast things with fireballs, he should be a wizard. There's no good reason in Eberron for a wizard to waste feats on item-creation feats rather than metamagic feats when an artificer can do it better, nor should a wizard be wasting his XP on magic items anymore. I have a PC, an elf wizard/artificer that's concerned about his future. He plan to take levels in Artificer until he hits level five and can craft magic weapons and armor, as well as retain essence, and then take levels in wizard thereafter. His concern is that he'll not be able to craft items requiring higher level spells for quite some time, as he'll be level 6 when he begins taking wizard levels. He wants to house rule a feat that allows him to stack wizard and artificer levels for the purpose of item creation caster level and prerequisite soells requirement. As a DM, I've been fairly generous to this group (already given them a bonus level in their favored class at character creation that doesn't count towards EXP, as well as giving them a pretty swanky former Giant Stronghold to serve as a base in Xen 'Drik). I'm a little worried about balence. I was thinking that if I made him take all the Artificer feats (legendary, exceptional, extraordinary) and a few others then I'd let him take a house feat that stacked wizard and artificer levels. On the other hand I was thinking about making a prestiege class that, on the same note as Mystic Theurge, allowed a character to simultaneously advance Craft Feats, effective artificer level for the purpose of meeting spell requirements, and spell casting at th cost of bonus wizard feats, familiar advancement, craft reserve, and infusions. This is really dilly of a pickle, so to speak. Could anyone offer advice?
Kravell 12-20-04, 03:15 PM	I think that your players are trying to take advantage of you. He should probably decide what he wants this PC to do... if he wants the PC to make magic items, he should stick with Artificer. If he wants to blast things with fireballs, he should be a wizard. There's no good reason in Eberron for a wizard to waste feats on item-creation feats rather than metamagic feats when an artificer can do it better, nor should a wizard be wasting his XP on magic items anymore. My opinion differs. You know your players best, you should have an idea if they are trying to powergame or if this character combo really matters from a roleplaying point of view. For instance, I've allowed a dwarf fighter/paladin to take a house feat that allows him to stack fighter levels with paladin levels for the purpose of powering paladin abilities. It's worked fine so far. I'd recommend trying the first option (feat to stack artificer/wizard levels for item creation) with the understanding that you are playtesting the feat and may need to tweak it. Using up a feat to stack caster levels will not get the character all the artificer bonus craft XP or creation feats. Basically, your player is willing to give up a lot of power (losing wizard levels) to be able to be a magic item creating wizard. I don't see a real problem with that, although I haven't playtested the idea of course. I'd recommend against the second options (artificing theurge). Artificers can create unbelievable piles of magic items, which is balanced only because they can't do much else really well. Use Magic Device and item creation are the two biggest abilities they have, even bigger than infusions from what I've seen. I shudder to think about a spell casting artificer with full artificer class abilities.