Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Edymnion 10-22-05, 12:21 AM	Okay, I've tried to hold off my judgement of this book until I actually had a copy of it in my hands. Well, my FLGS finally got it restocked, and I've been reading the book over. I'm now ready to comment on it. For starters, the bit about Merrix's creation forge being common knowledge that I had been hearing on the boards isn't anywhere near as bad as its made out to sound. The bit says, and I quote:No artificer in the country of Breland receives training without hearing a few rumors about a secret creation forge that Baron Merrix supposedly hides in the bowels of one of Sharn's many towers.It does NOT say that everybody knows its there, its just a rumor or two about it. Its like saying that every aerospace engineer in the state of Nevada has heard rumors of Area 51 being where they research UFOs. And most likely, those artificers give the rumors of Merrix having a working forge about the same level of credit that most people give to the rumors that Area 51 is where they reverse engineer UFOs and have aliens in big jars. I don't see anything here that warrents the amount of worry I've seen over it. Other than that, lets get into it. Its a short book, just over 150 pages, but boy oh boy does it cram a lot of stuff into those pages. Its true that it does not have an index in the back, but the main index in the front is quite thorough, including the page number of every single spell, many of the individual magical items and grafts, etc. Unlike some of the others, this one is quite usable without the back index. First up though, this book is *NOT* the same as Magic of Faerun. It is not a hundred fifty pages of just spell after spell after spell and magic items. It goes into a lot of stuff about how the material can be integrated, and from what I've seen, it does it quite well. I have yet to find anything glaring that just smacks me of "They had no idea what they were doing" like some of the other Eberron books have. We get a look into Draconic Prophecy, Daelkyr Magic, magic of Areneal, Karrnath, and a pair of good organizations (including a good one for the gnomes). Character options give us the Daelkyr Halfblood (while I'm not overly fond of adding lots of new races, this one isn't done poorly, so its acceptable), the Psiforged which are really nothing more than a writeup for a body feat, the Psionic Artificer (something people have wanted since day 1, just about), and lots of fun feats (just skimming those and I already found at least 2 my artificer just has to have). PrC wise, we've got some nice jewels in here. The Renegade Mastermaker got promoted on the boards here as being "he bolts on some warforged pieces", and while not technically wrong, the PrC was done MUCH better than that. In fact, I like it so much, my Artificer is going to start taking levels in it (its cool actually, first level gets them a battlefist for a hand, which will go a long way in all of those "how do I get an artificial arm for my artificer?" threads). The Alchemist Savant FINALLY sees print, and its not a dissappointment either. Much reduced crafting times on alchemical items and potions (up to 3 a day for the potions!). Elemental Scion of Zilargo is a great PrC for the gnomes that are into elemental binding. Some of them are kinda weird, like the Deadgrim, but they're not as bad as some make it sound on the boards. And perhaps one of the best things, the spells are NOT out of place in Eberron! There's actually quite a few good utility spells in here, and a lot of it is low level. I mean, there's a spell in here called Clothier's Closet who's only purpose is to provide you with a change of clothes. Now that is just freaking sweet for those of us that want more utility magic! And there is a LOT of psionic material in here. Not just for the PsiForged (although they get cool embedded items for psionics), but for all psionic characters. The magical items also include a large number of utility items, like the Infinite Scrollcase that simply holds all of your scrolls in one tidy little place and lets you pull out the one you need, sort of like the haversack's ability. A Wand Bracelet that lets you shrink small objects like wands or small weapons into charms that attatch to the bracelet. The Minor Schema are well done, they are essentially once per day items that hold spells with xp or costly material components that you activate a bit like a scroll. Essentially, you make a schema for something, and then you can use that to meet item crafting prereqs instead of winging it. And since you can use it once a day, you save in the long run. Tired of spending that 100 gp pearl every time you make a scroll of Identify? Make a schema for it, and you've got it handled. The grafts are actually pretty cool, especially the Elemental Grafts. Its like elemental binding, to your body. The new weapons and armor aren't anything to write home about. I was a bit dissappointed when the Hammer Gun thing said it can't be used to make ranged attacks. Neither can the big spear gun looking thing. However, with an Exotic weapon feat, you can essentially hit someone with the weapon, do normal damage, and then pull a trigger to shoot a bolt into them for even more damage. Interesting, if not exactly practical for most people. Few new special materials that, while not as useful as say, Adamantine, are quite flavorful. The Creatures section adds little in the way of new monsters (which is good, IMO). There's some new Quori, and a few other guys, about 5 in all. Then there's three homonculi, and then seven symbionts (some of which are really cool). The homonculi aren't described exactly like the pictures, which in some cases is a good thing. The Arbalester is illustrated as being some ornate bow with arms and legs, which looks kind of silly IMO, but the description puts it as a crossbow with arms to reload itself. The Packmate, the walking chest homonculi, is actually exceedingly useful, as it is capable of throwing things like alchemists fire, and can actually administer potions on it's own. You stick a Cure X Wounds potion in it, and then later on it can go give it to a downed ally on it's own. Nobody has to spend their round doing it. The Advance Homonculi stuff is pretty nice too, allowing you to upgrade your homonculi with special abilities that are pretty nice. Like increasing their hitpoints, giving them fly/swim/burrow speeds, allowing them to make sneak attacks for you, upping their skill checks, goes a long way towards making the little buggers into very valuable sidekicks. If you haven't figured it out yet, I am VERY please with this book! Bravo! Not only did nothing in it really slap me in the face as being out of place, but everything I see is nice and flavorful, with lots of cool fluff for everything. Lots of utility magic and equipment... yeah, this book kicks ass. IMO, its between City of Towers and Five Nations as being one of the best books in the line.
Inkling 10-22-05, 12:40 AM	I agree with you, this is the best book WotC has put out for a while. I blew my top when I saw the Aeren screw-up at the front of the book, but once I got through the rest of the book, it was actually very good. The homonculi descriptions were very thorough and the packmate description was so thorough that it was answering all the questions I was coming up with in my head as I was reading. All the new homis and homi improvements nearly made me hyperventilate. The amount of magic items was kinda sparse, but very good. I was becoming bored with artificers until this book came out. The elemental grafts were very colorful and useful as well. You can replace the inside of your mouth and tongue with a water elemental graft for all sorts of interesting side effects and you can replace your eyes with a fire elemental's for a truly smoldering look! (if you want to look like Spawn or a protoss archon, then this is the Xmas present for you). The Renegade Mastermaker, while strangely named, is a killer prestige class for a Cannith artificer...finally you can have a cool Dragonmark AND a cool battlefist. I had to give WotC a beating for the Aeren-story flub, but I would have to say this book is a must-buy especially if you are an artificer.
Wycen the Clueless 10-22-05, 02:35 AM	The Minor Schema are well done, they are essentially once per day items that hold spells with xp or costly material components that you activate a bit like a scroll. Essentially, you make a schema for something, and then you can use that to meet item crafting prereqs instead of winging it. And since you can use it once a day, you save in the long run. Tired of spending that 100 gp pearl every time you make a scroll of Identify? Make a schema for it, and you've got it handled. Actually, you could not etch a minor schema for Identify. Identify requires expending a 100 gp pearl. Page 122 says you can't etch a minor schema for any spell that has a costly material component.
Phaseroth 10-22-05, 09:39 PM	So has this book actually been released yet, or not? Amazon.com still says it's unreleased.
Medesha 10-22-05, 09:53 PM	Amazon is messing up. The book's been released and is in stores.
Majorafire77 10-22-05, 09:56 PM	People have been reviewing and ranting about it for the past two weeks...
Inkling 10-22-05, 10:50 PM	So has this book actually been released yet, or not? Amazon.com still says it's unreleased.You have to visit your friendly neighborhood Comic Book Guy to get it before Amazon releases it. But Amazon will sell it at a cheaper price than the specialty hobby shops.
Phaseroth 10-22-05, 11:44 PM	You have to visit your friendly neighborhood Comic Book Guy to get it before Amazon releases it. But Amazon will sell it at a cheaper price than the specialty hobby shops. Ah, so they delay release so the local dealers have a shot? That's cool, I guess. I do remember my Comic Book Guy had kind of a disdainful look on his face when I mentioned buying my D&D books from Amazon. Of course, he pretty much stopped selling D&D stuff anyway after the gaming store opened a few doors down from the comic shop. If I was only buying one or two books, I would probably buy locally. But I'm buying so many that the Amazon discount is impossible to ignore. At around $10 discount on each book, I've saved almost $200 buying online.
Edymnion 10-23-05, 12:05 AM	Yeah, the books get sent out to local gaming stores sometimes up to a month before they even ship to the big chains. For example, I had a 25% off coupon at Walden Books that was about to expire. It was the 21st. My local gaming store had had MoE in and sold out for a week, and it hadn't even shipped to the Walden Books warehouses yet. Amazon is like one of the LAST people to ever get a D&D book, mainly because WotC knows they'll sell 'em at a major discount (and since they order in bulk, they likely get a much reduced price on the books). Meaning everybody else local sells them at full price, and WotC makes more $$$.
Joni-san 10-23-05, 12:53 PM	*Snip* Wha? Whe? Täh? :eek:. Edymnion likes something :confused: *Joni-san walks out and looks up* Well look at that, our porcine friends have taken to the skies... :blink: Just kidding with 'ya there Edymnion :P. It's just that you've left something of an impression on me that basically said "Ah humbug :pbbbtt:" :D The review is usefull and makes me even more giddy about the arrival of my order (Is it next friday? *Twitch*)
Brastan 10-23-05, 03:43 PM	Actually, you could not etch a minor schema for Identify. Identify requires expending a 100 gp pearl. Page 122 says you can't etch a minor schema for any spell that has a costly material component. A correction, you can make schema of Identify just not Arcane Identify. You ar e correct about costly componets but there is always a solution. As Artificers we must draw on a deeper understanding of magic. If you use a ritual process similar to those devoted to forces of magic(Magic Domain) we find they do not require the costly pearl that Arcanists do. Although it requires a bit more power to utilize it becomes worth the effort. This concept can be applied to scrolls, wands, and eternal wands.
Edymnion 10-23-05, 03:59 PM	Wha? Whe? Täh? :eek:. Edymnion likes something :confused: *Joni-san walks out and looks up* Well look at that, our porcine friends have taken to the skies... :blink: Just kidding with 'ya there Edymnion :P. It's just that you've left something of an impression on me that basically said "Ah humbug :pbbbtt:" :DQuick, go outside and feel the ground, see if it's cold! Hell might have just frozen over! :D But hey, I just call 'em like I see 'em. I also lauded praise on Sharn: City of Towers and the Five Nations books, and gave Explorer's Handbook an "eh". Its just Races of Eberron I really put through the ringer. I'll pour out compliments just as freely as insults to books that deserve them, and Magic of Eberron definately deserves lots of compliments! :)
DBlizzard 10-23-05, 04:20 PM	The bit says, and I quote:It does NOT say that everybody knows its there, its just a rumor or two about it. Its like saying that every aerospace engineer in the state of Nevada has heard rumors of Area 51 being where they research UFOs. I tend to think of it like Elvis. Everyone has heard rumors that Elvis is alive. Even that he faked his death so he could work undercover for the FBI. However, does anyone believe the rumors? Mostly, no. So, Elvis can go about his business knowing that no one will really believe the rumors, thinking he's dead ;) Just like Merrix goes on experimenting with warforged, since everyone has discounted the rumors as those of the paranoid and crazy.
Wycen the Clueless 10-23-05, 05:29 PM	A correction, you can make schema of Identify just not Arcane Identify. You ar e correct about costly componets but there is always a solution. As Artificers we must draw on a deeper understanding of magic. If you use a ritual process similar to those devoted to forces of magic(Magic Domain) we find they do not require the costly pearl that Arcanists do. Although it requires a bit more power to utilize it becomes worth the effort. This concept can be applied to scrolls, wands, and eternal wands. I'm afraid your interpretation of how a cleric casts Identify is different than mine.
Medesha 10-23-05, 06:42 PM	It's true. If the Components line includes F/DF or M/DF, the arcane verson of the spell has a focus component or a material component (the abbreviation before the slash) and the divine version has a divine focus component (the abbreviation after the slash). Identify Components: V, S, M/DF I've never thought of using domain spells in magic items before...
Crimsonsun 10-23-05, 07:12 PM	The Renegade Mastermaker, while strangely named, is a killer prestige class for a Cannith artificer...finally you can have a cool Dragonmark AND a cool battlefist. It's also damned nice if your NOT a Cannith artificer.. Im so sick of most of the really good stuff being the sole domain of Cannith! GRR!! Back off from my elemental binding! That belongs to us Gnomes! :D
Edymnion 10-23-05, 09:53 PM	It's also damned nice if your NOT a Cannith artificer.. Im so sick of most of the really good stuff being the sole domain of Cannith! GRR!! Back off from my elemental binding! That belongs to us Gnomes! :DGnome Artificer with full levels in Renegade Master, and a bunch of elemental grafts as he goes too. Man, think of it, a Small sized Warforged, with all the gnome abilities, along with say, all of the stacking Fire Elemental grafts. Burning touches, burning gaze attacks, burning skin... maybe throw in an Earth graft for stone skin to cover up any remains of your fleshy self? Its a small sized human torch warforged gnome! Oh, and as for the schema, yes, anything that has costly material components or xp costs can't be made into a schema. Other than that, the minor schema essentially work as a scroll version of the Eternal Wand with one use per day.
Atlictoatl 10-23-05, 11:28 PM	If I was only buying one or two books, I would probably buy locally. But I'm buying so many that the Amazon discount is impossible to ignore. At around $10 discount on each book, I've saved almost $200 buying online. As one of the local game stores, if you walked into my store and said, "Hey, I'm rarely in here because I buy all of my D&D books at Amazon, but I wish I could support you," I would try very hard to compete with them for your business. I might not be able to match them dollar for dollar, but we could talk about what value you placed on getting the book when it was released instead of weeks later, and on getting to use my store to browse books before deciding to buy them, and come up with something that works for both of us. I do this with other people, and everyone's happy. However, in my store (and likely others), I'd prefer to give such an offer on special orders. If I have 2-3 copies of a book on my shelf, I need to sell them at full price. I can always bring in a special order for the release date, or have it in the store within two days, though. Note that I run a fairly large community gaming store. Other stores might not get their books directly from WotC (and thus have a harder competing), or may have a longer stretch of time between orders. Try it out with your local gaming store! Support the little guys! Without local stores, the hobby suffers! I tend to think of it like Elvis. Everyone has heard rumors that Elvis is alive. Even that he faked his death so he could work undercover for the FBI. However, does anyone believe the rumors? Mostly, no. So, Elvis can go about his business knowing that no one will really believe the rumors, thinking he's dead ;) Just like Merrix goes on experimenting with warforged, since everyone has discounted the rumors as those of the paranoid and crazy.Except Elvis being alive isn't an international crime that could throw a wartorn continent back into warfare, or which might interest hundreds or thousands of warforged who want control over their own reproduction. The point is simply, why make such a potentially controversial throwaway statement? It's sloppy, doesn't add to the setting, and is unnecessary. In my case, it made me receive the entire book in a negative light, because the statement was made on, essentially, p.1 of the book's content.
Crimsonsun 10-24-05, 08:13 AM	Gnome Artificer with full levels in Renegade Master, and a bunch of elemental grafts as he goes too. Man, think of it, a Small sized Warforged, with all the gnome abilities, along with say, all of the stacking Fire Elemental grafts. Burning touches, burning gaze attacks, burning skin... maybe throw in an Earth graft for stone skin to cover up any remains of your fleshy self? Its a small sized human torch warforged gnome! Not sure if you'd have the feats left for it, but squeeze in Power Attack and Improved Bull Rush, then start taking juggernaut levels... ;)
Zalaz Mavi 10-24-05, 10:30 AM	Without local stores, the hobby suffers! I would caveat this by saying the community aspect of the hobby would suffer, not necessarily the hobby, in and of itself. But, you put it very concisely regarding small stores versus the big outlets. Having the books on the release date is sometimes the small store's only competition point. In my area, by waiting an extra week, I can go to B&N, get a better selection of titles, better customer service and a discount off my purchase. If my FLGS weren't the only comic book store to speak of in the area, I'd have no reason to send business in that direction. Back to the topic at hand: I rate MoE about the same as the Explorers' Handbook — a useful title, but nothing to break a sweat over. While there's a good deal that I could add to my campaign, the amount of that material isn't high enough (as of right now) that I want to purchase my own copy. My mindset right now is to wait for a future title that does strike me as a must-have and buy the two together...
Atlictoatl 10-24-05, 10:52 AM	I would caveat this by saying the community aspect of the hobby would suffer, not necessarily the hobby, in and of itself. It's certainly a point of debate, and perhaps not one for this thread. Briefly, I'll suggest that, were we to go to a market that was entirely dominated by online discount houses, the inability of customers to browse product and ask questions of experts in the field would result not only in poorly informed customers but more of what we are already seeing with poor workmanship on the product we buy. If D&D players would stop buying titles off of internet sites, sight unseen, the effect on sales from their discriminating purchases might just turn the tide on getting better quality product again. Though, at this point, there's almost no way to test this theory. And, while it is a community factor, something flagship stores do admirably well is bring in new players to the hobby and educate them in it. Hobbies need new blood to survive over time, and Amazon can only generate a fraction of the new players that even my store alone generates. :)
Joni-san 10-24-05, 11:45 AM	Quick, go outside and feel the ground, see if it's cold! Hell might have just frozen over! :D Hell has frosen over! :mymy: Incidentally it snowed (well, hailed) today and routa propably kicked in some time ago :P Yeah, you views 'em as you views 'em. :)
Zalaz Mavi 10-24-05, 01:06 PM	If D&D players would stop buying titles off of internet sites, sight unseen, the effect on sales from their discriminating purchases might just turn the tide on getting better quality product again. I've noticed that a good percentage of gamers tend to be speculative buyers regardless of the purchase avenue. I've encountered numerous occasions where a gamer has bought a book, taken it home and only then discovered the quality of their purchase. The solution, in my mind, is for the community to be smarter consumers and not let their enthusiasm about a product encourage waste (whether for gamers or from game companies)...
Thrincold 10-24-05, 07:41 PM	Hell has frosen over! :mymy: Incidentally it snowed (well, hailed) today and routa propably kicked in some time ago :P Yeah, you views 'em as you views 'em. :) I can confirm the freezing of hell. I just got back from my honeymoon. Which yes means I got married. Between that and a good review from Edy, it has to be true. Hell hath frozen over and the end times are near. LOL don't own the book yet because I've been sitting on a beach for a week or so, but I'll be getting it soon and hope its as good as you make it out to be.
Salla 10-24-05, 07:58 PM	Its a small sized human torch warforged gnome! If such a character ever exists, it shall acquire the nickname 'Zippo', regardless of whether the character's real name can be concievably shortened to such a nickname. :)
Jastra of the clawed hand 10-29-05, 06:23 PM	I will get my copy next week but I've had a look at it and the Renegade Mastermaker ( strange name, I'm with you on this one), especially the pic, did it for me. A friggin Cyborg in Eberron! ;) Style-wise, the book absolutely goes on top of my list. I. Got. To. Buy. This. Book!
Yarael 10-30-05, 02:03 PM	I lovedd the book and I think my characters will get great use out of it. Only two things about the book have rubbed me the wrong way... One is the Dragon gods described in the Draconic Prohpesy PRC. Draconic Gods!! Where did they come from? Why couldn't the powers be tied to the moons? Or use the established Sovereign Host pantheon (which I'm sure there is much more behind, and plays a more prominient role in the Draconic Prophesy than had been so far developed) And two of the gods are named Bahamut and Tiamat. Couldn't we have gone one Setting without those two showing up? The second thing, which is really hard to put my finger on the exact manifestation of, is a lack of layers. In Sharn, City of Towers, there are so many layers to the orginizations, the people, the plots. I can't help but think that if Keith had written up the Elemental Scions, they would be about a lot more than just negoiciating for the service of Elementals. They would be a route for the accumulation of power for some neferiaous purpose. Overall a good book. Lots of cool ideas that will be sure to add to any Eberoon Campaign.
Jastra of the clawed hand 10-30-05, 02:10 PM	The Draconic Gods are mentioned in the core rulebook ( p.130)....and two of them are named Bahamut and Tiamat. However, they might not be actual beings, more like cosmic prinicples.
Edymnion 10-30-05, 04:45 PM	Yes, the draconic pantheon has been in Eberron since day 1. And don't forget, there is the Ascended Dragon PrC for dragons to actually gain divine rank. And the three progenitor wyrms were dragons. Siberys, Eberron, and Khyber. And as has been mentioned, the ECS even shows the constillations for Bahamut and Tiamat in the planar section. And there is the bit that all of the Khorvaire gods are supposed to have alternate forms... as dragons. So, its quite possible that the origins of all the god stories in Eberron are from the original 12 dragons that managed to ascend beyond the mortal coils, and most likely, went off to go do something else.
DBlizzard 10-30-05, 08:39 PM	Except Elvis being alive isn't an international crime that could throw a wartorn continent back into warfare... OK, substitute Hitler for Elvis. While the rumors aren't as strong now as they were a couple of decades ago, finding he was still alive would have major repercussions which could have thrown the world back into a war.