Post/Author/DateTime	Post
operations 09-19-06, 02:05 PM	It's simple. I get the impression that each mark is manifested within one race (or two, in a few rare cases). The houses are organized by the race. My question is do those dragonmarks always manifest on that race, or are their occasional exceptions to that rule? Could a mark of storm, for example, appear on a full blooded human?
Kreistor1 09-19-06, 02:09 PM	No exceptions. It follows bloodlines. Some crossbreeds have manifested, but they haven't bred into another race.
Edymnion 09-19-06, 02:10 PM	The marks always manifest *ONLY* on the appropriate race. They are magical in nature, not genetic. It doesn't matter if you're a first generation half-elf, you can't inherit your elf momma's dragonmark. Dragonmarks never appear on any race other than what is listed. Essentially, the mark chooses the bearer, not the other way around.
Kreistor1 09-19-06, 02:18 PM	Mis-read Edy's post.
(Psi)SeveredHead 09-19-06, 03:32 PM	It's simple. I get the impression that each mark is manifested within one race (or two, in a few rare cases). The houses are organized by the race. My question is do those dragonmarks always manifest on that race, or are their occasional exceptions to that rule? Could a mark of storm, for example, appear on a full blooded human? It's both magical and genetic, from what I can tell. (It's only supposed to show up in bloodlines.) The rules and flavor for dragonmarks are they aren't supposed to show up in the "wrong" race. However, half-elves are kind of a weird case. The descendant of a half-elf and an elf is considered a half-elf by the rules of a lot of elven societies (and according to the flavor text of at least some game settings), but they'll probably look like an elf. If they manifested the Mark of Storms, it could look like an elf had manifested the dragonmark, even though they're really a half-elf. (A PC in such a situation would actually be a half-elf, but even their friends might think they're human or elven, provided they don't know about the dragonmark or at least don't know what mark it is.) I presume half-elves vary in their appearance anyway, with some looking mostly human and some looking mostly elvish, so seeing a "human" or "elf" with the Mark of Storms wouldn't necessarily be shocking. It might draw closer looks, though. You might get a similar case with the Mark of Finding, which (being the big exception) can be found on humans and orcs. I presume it first appeared in half-orcs, but unlike the Mark of Storms was able to manifest in both parent races, too.
Save-vs-DM 09-19-06, 04:04 PM	A minor nitpick, but only half-orcs and humans can manifest the mark of finding. Orcs cannot manifest any dragonmark, the mark of finding included. Cheers, Save vs DM
Loki5654 09-19-06, 04:55 PM	...so seeing a "human" or "elf" with the Mark of Storms wouldn't necessarily be shocking. Except that would mean that someone took a feat they didn't qualify for. Look at the character sheet, if under "Race" you write "Human" or "Elf" you cannot qualify for a Half-Elf only feat. Fluff shouldn't be used to undermine the RAW.
Just another user 09-19-06, 05:23 PM	Dragonmarks never appear on any race other than what is listed. The only exceptions happen in case of use of the Reincarnation spell, but I think it is a stupid rule and tend to ignore it.
The White Sorcerer 09-19-06, 06:10 PM	Except that would mean that someone took a feat they didn't qualify for. Read the post again. It's talking about half-elves who look mostly human or elven. Thus, "humans" and "elves," not humans and elves.
The White Sorcerer 09-19-06, 06:11 PM	You might get a similar case with the Mark of Finding, which (being the big exception) can be found on humans and orcs. What Save-vs-DM said. The mark on appears on humans and half-orcs, not orcs.
The White Sorcerer 09-19-06, 06:12 PM	The only exceptions happen in case of use of the Reincarnation spell, but I think it is a stupid rule and tend to ignore it. Why do you think it's stupid?
ekomega 09-19-06, 06:13 PM	...but they'll probably look like an elf. If they manifested the Mark of Storms, it could look like an elf had manifested the dragonmark, even though they're really a half-elf. I don't know how you can say this, given that Half-elves are now a true breeding race in Eberron. I think that anyone can tell the difference between a half-elf and an elf or human, merely by looking at them.
Loki5654 09-19-06, 06:24 PM	Read the post again. It's talking about half-elves who look mostly human or elven. Thus, "humans" and "elves," not humans and elves. What ekomega said. A half-elf is a half-elf is a half-elf. You can pretend the half-elf is an elf all you want, but when your party finds out you've been sneaking off to shave each morning, they'll start suspecting something.
operations 09-19-06, 07:13 PM	I assumed that they we're very race specific, but wanted to be sure.
Edymnion 09-19-06, 11:56 PM	Why do you think it's stupid?Because it totally flies in the face of the rules? Dragonmarks are feats. If you were a Fighter with Power Attack (which requires a strength of 15 to use), and you reincarnate as something with a strength of 8, you don't get to keep the use of your Power Attack. If you had levels in Arcane Archer and reincarnate as a Dwarf, you don't get to keep your Arcane Archer powers. Long story short, all established rules and precidence for reincarnation says that you do *NOT* get to keep things that were tied to your old race or physical stats. We even have an example of this right in the ECS. Erandis d'Vol had her type change, and lost the use of her Dragonmark. Other examples would be the Renegade Mastermaker, which becomes a Warforged as the capstone ability, which means you lose access to your dragonmark (if you had one before). Top it all off with the fact that Keith himself said it wasn't his idea, but something the higher ups basically told him "This is what we decided. You will use this."
Just another user 09-20-06, 10:13 AM	What edyminion said, plus I never truly understood the logic behind that decision, if you are polymoprhed you keep your mark because you fundamentaly are still a human/elf/dwarf, but when you are reincarnated you are i.e. an ogre and ogre don't have dragonmark. To make a short story shorter I just say that reincarnated dragonmarked always come back as the right race for their dragonmark, because that is the power of the Prophecy, it follow the setting , it respect the rules and modesty aside it is just plain better. :D
Kreistor1 09-20-06, 05:13 PM	And now that there are optional rules for replacing a Feat that has become useless (PHB II), there's no demand to allow a reincarnated character to use a Dragonmark. If the cahracter was flat losing the feat, well, that could require some kind of DM intervention to rebalance the PC, but now, you can leave the Feats as is, and leave it to the player to replace the feat he can't use anymore.
Wolfen Fenrison 09-22-06, 01:12 PM	I love the idea the power of the prophecy forces the magic of the reincarnate spell to bring the dead dragonmarked as the right race for the mark, I'm so using it in may games now thanx.
Just another user 09-22-06, 04:58 PM	I love the idea the power of the prophecy forces the magic of the reincarnate spell to bring the dead dragonmarked as the right race for the mark, I'm so using it in may games now thanx. You are welcome. :)
Kreistor1 09-22-06, 05:04 PM	But what if the Prophecy states that the character should die? Is no reincarnate possible? Runing Reincarnate like that gives Dragonmarked characters a lower level Raise Dead. There needs to be a balancing mechanism to prevent abuse. Perhaps a cumulative 10% chance of failure, and the character not being resurrectable when it fails? Basically, the first time it is cast on a character, there is a 10% probability the Prophecy states the character should die, so 9/10 of the time, the character gets a cheap raise dead. The second time, the chance of failure is 20%. Third time 3% failue. And so on. If a failure is rolled, the character cannot come back by any means.
Just another user 09-22-06, 05:40 PM	But what if the Prophecy states that the character should die? Is no reincarnate possible? Runing Reincarnate like that gives Dragonmarked characters a lower level Raise Dead. There needs to be a balancing mechanism to prevent abuse. Perhaps a cumulative 10% chance of failure, and the character not being resurrectable when it fails? Basically, the first time it is cast on a character, there is a 10% probability the Prophecy states the character should die, so 9/10 of the time, the character gets a cheap raise dead. The second time, the chance of failure is 20%. Third time 3% failue. And so on. If a failure is rolled, the character cannot come back by any means. If it work like that for resurrection I can't see why it should not work the same way for Raise dead and other spells. Beside keep the same race is not necessarily an advantage. You can't become a bugbear or a orc with + to strength but not mimuns to WIS and INT. What about, you lose a level but rather than go in xp half-way between your previous level and the next one you go exactly to minimum xp necessary to get that level.e. a 3rd level dragonmarked character reincarnated would be a 2st level character with exactly 1000 xp rather that 2000 as normal. BTW, I'd like if reincarnation changed the phisical stats of the subject, it is stupid that a character get a new body that is exactly as strong, agile and healty as the new one (plus or minus the racial modifiers). P.S. but the ideal would be to use the spell as is and that players and characters don't know of this home rule if a dragonmarked character is ever reincarnated you roll the dice behind the screen and just say that is got back as the old race what are the chances that he we'll be reincarnated again, after all. (note is same race, not same character, now your grizzled dwarf veteran of a thousand battles against the Jhoras'tar orcs is a young adult female dwarf, just imagine the faces of your old battle companions and family members when they'll see you next time. :D )