Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Sans Serif 09-26-04, 06:01 PM	So I've been debating getting the Eberron stuff... and the more I look at Eberron, the more it doesn't feel like a place I should put my new players. Am I right in thinking this?
Neofish 09-26-04, 06:03 PM	naw. It's easier than starting in forgotton realms. Why do you fell it will be hard to put them in Eberron.
The White Sorcerer 09-26-04, 06:04 PM	and the more I look at Eberron, the more it doesn't feel like a place I should put my new players. Why? I happen to disagree.
Saurenda 09-26-04, 06:10 PM	Well before I disagree, I'd rather have more information. We are fans of Eberron so forgive the willingness to help you endorse the system as some of us are egar to pull people in it seems. I can't very well tell you it isn't without knowing the experience of the players your talking about. If they are fresh, a short introduction is in order. Explain to them the setting and a good breif history of the last war. Afterwards since they are new have them choose humans from Breland as thier characters. If they want to change later on after they've gotten a feel for it, or want to play another race Breland is still the nicest place to startout. Another good place to start is have them read, pages you desginate and the dragonshard articles. My newbies went from knowing nothing to literally embracing the world and ended up knowing the amount of an average citizen and more after 3 session. Don't start on Forgotten Forge or Queen with burning eyes. Start with an original adventure ont he rail to Sharn or better yet somewhere in the King's Forest, nothing like beating on the Jungle Boys.
Saurenda 09-26-04, 06:16 PM	Why? I happen to disagree. Because White, not everyone has been here from the ground floor up like we have. Believe it or not Eberron intimidates a lot of people, not because they see it as we do, but as a whole world of more information to learn. Alot of people are comfy elsewhere and learning a whole new world disturbs them. For the regular newbie to roleplaying it's a nice introduction. For seasoned roleplayers it can be an intirely different animal. Before you disagree again I've mentioned several times before that my own experience with those having played CoC, FR, and Gurps. I had to endure quite a bit of, "I know what I'm doing!" and then have them fail because of bad dice rolls or unwisely using action points. Honestly it got so bad with the experienced players I had to hold thier hands to get anything done and they gripped about even 3 weeks later :mad: Newbies themselves will want to know what's going on, and in Eberron the case is that no one really knows whats going on. Not even the dragons, hence the Chamber, and it comes to a point where you have to let them know you have only so much knowledge. So for any campaign setting, newbies may seem out of place at first, but from my experience they quickly adapt. If you feel Eberron isn't right for them right now they trust you with you decision to pick for them? Don't do Eberron. Try something you feel they may be more comfortable with, but it will seem this way with any campagin setting you are unfamiliar with, espically GreyHawk as that has been out the longest I understand.
Sans Serif 09-26-04, 07:43 PM	wow. Quite the response, thanks. My group is N00BS. Well, I'm new to 3.5, as well. I've been running my gf, kid, and some friends through the adventure kit box set. We're about to finish, and I'm trying to figure out where to go from here. This is their 1st experience with D&D. It's the strange lands and creatures that are making me think Eb isn't for n00bs. Rather than the standard orc / goblin / zombie / ghoul, we have the warforged. For me, as I flip through the Eb sourcebook, it just looks like something that would be better for a seasoned player than a n00b... and maybe the n00bs should stick to FR or something similiar.
Magagumo 09-26-04, 07:52 PM	I just finished Forgotten Forge with a party of 5 entirely new players- it was a tough session, they needed to rest a lot, and death was often preeminnent, but they love the setting and had an absolute blast- it's so easy for new players to create living, breathign personas due to the life and background information Eberron provides (You see far less "orcs killed my parents! Rawr!" and more "I'm a Kohorvar rogue attempting to gather enough information & good favor in order to begin working with the Zilargo Triumvirate")
Edymnion 09-26-04, 07:52 PM	The forgotten realms are even worse for new players. There is a MASSIVE amount of material you need to know for a FR campaign. Every last square inch of that setting has been claimed by some one, some thing, or some event. You can't spit without hitting some bit of backstory, or having Elminster come down and fine you for spitting on the sidewalk. Eberron is new, and relatively empty. There are no super powers protecting the land, there is no needing to know a thousand year's of backstory to run a particular area properly, and there's no cleric capable of casting Ressurection in every single temple in the land. In Eberron, the PCs are quickly going to become the powerhouses of the world. They are going to be the ones that write the major history of the world. They are going to be the ones other people come to for help above all others. Faerun is already claimed by names like Elminster and Drizzt. Eberron is wide open, the party wizard could easily become their world's version of Elminster. For new players, who typically don't like being overshadowed, Eberron is great. The whole world will be looking up to them before they're even lvl 10. By the time they hit lvl 20, they will be literally the strongest people in the world.
Gurv 09-26-04, 08:32 PM	I agree. Eberron does have a lot of information to absorb. But not nearly as much as Forgotten Realms. Not even close to close. Of the information that there is, you don't need to know much of it before you start. Heck, there is a heading in the book called the "Ten Things You Need to Know" and the information following it is barely more than a single page. There are indeed new monsters and such in Eberron. But there are orcs and trolls, zombies and elves too. It has a place for each of these things, and a place for every new element that it introduces. FR has everything piled on top of one another. In addition, although there is an amazing amount of support for FR, Eberron is the new powerhouse that Wizards is supporting. You won't have to worry about getting started in something that is going to be hard to find stuff for. You run into trouble, it is even likely that the setting creator himself might answer you right here on these boards. That kind of support is hard to get for most things on the market today. Gurv "Live in the future, not the past." -Wizard's Seventh Rule
Edymnion 09-26-04, 08:39 PM	You run into trouble, it is even likely that the setting creator himself might answer you right here on these boards.Yes, thats something incredibly special and rare that we've got going for us with Eberron. Keith Baker, the man that wrote the setting, is an active poster here under the username HellCow, and he posts pretty much daily. Essentially, Keith was just another one of us board posters until he won the campaign setting contest. But really, he's still just another poster it seems. He enjoys interacting with us, he actively surfs the boards here, and is always ready with a helping hand when someone needs it. You sure as hell won't find anything even CLOSE to that with Faerun. Faerun, and any other setting really, people can and do debate endlessly on what something means, and never really come up with an answer. With Eberron, if something isn't clear, you can just ask Keith, and he'll clear it up for you, its amazing. Lets just say there's a good reason there's a thread worshipping the man. He deserves it. :D
MojoMonkeyMan 09-26-04, 08:54 PM	Let me start by saying that you have more options than just Forgotten Realms and Eberron. Let's not forget Greyhawk, Oriental Adventures, Ghostwalk, DragonLance, and a variety of others not sponsored by WotC. That said, I run a group with a variety of players. Their RPG experience ranges from 30 years to 3 months, and I have been playing off and on for almost 25 years. I suggested Eberron to the group for these reasons: They, the PC's, are the heroes of the land. Most NPC's are just like them, struggling to grow and understand an unfamiliar world. Next, I needed something new. The lack of support material is a BONUS for me. I like being able to create the world to my specifications to fit my players and their playing styles. If allowed, they will read all the books and come into a session telling ME about how they think the realms should be. This is NEVER good for a group. It steals all the WONDER and SURPRISE from the world. (I understand that this won't be a problem for you and your group, but it leads me to my last point.) I enjoy learning about this new world of Eberron, and when I am excited, my players are excited. So my question for you is: Which campaign setting most excites you? If it is Eberron, then your players will become excited as well. As the DM, it is your job to lead them into having a good time and to bring out the best in them. You can do this in any setting. I have been able to do it in Eberron. Hope this helps.
solace in fire 09-26-04, 10:56 PM	The main problem I forsee is that even though Forgotten Realms has a lot more information to digest compared to Eberron, most people are relatively familiar with FR---FR builds directly upon Core DnD ideals... it shares many Gods from the Greyhawk Standard DnD setting, and retains many key ideas involving generic DnD: elves live in forests and are dexterious and evasive, the Drow are evil and live underground, dwarves mine under mountains and wield axes, the world has deserts filled with genies and djinni, icy tundra inwhich White Dragons and Yeti's make their home.... it reinforces traditional fantasty, whereas Eberron differentiates from the norm, making it more difficult to digest for newer players. Elves have a generally spooky appearence with the Aerenal worship of the Undying, the Dwarves, while still miners, have lost a bit of their old grit and grunge and have become more corporate and diplomatic, and there are many new races and a lot of new ideas to be introduced (of great importance): warforged, the Last War, dragonmarks, economic domination by Dragonmarked houses, lightning rails ....it takes a while to adjust to a completely original setting. But that is also why Eberron, in my opinion, is one of the best settings out there; its unique. Thats my 2 cents.
Saurenda 09-26-04, 11:06 PM	No one is saying you necessarily have to read everything FR has out there, or the novels. A simple campagin of the player's guide, and the campaign setting is enough for a small family game. These aren't hardcore players. They are a kid, a girlfriend and a dad trying to play Dnd all for the first time. That being said, Eberron would be a game that grows with the budding party. So as more information become avalible things would progress on both sides of player and DM. With FR it will take a lot of DM's effort to make the material digestible, espiclaly in the case of Both Eberron and FR where you want the info to be understandible to the noob. As for Ghostwalk, things there are great. Greyhawk is good too yes, and there are still others. Kingdoms of Kalimdor is truly nice for anyone exp or inexp. the moment I picked up that book I was very please what had been done. Eberron, KoK, and FR are the top of my list of recomendations.
GMSteve 09-30-04, 02:49 AM	I am a big fan of the new EBCS. I even was able to convert some people who thought that they would hate playing in it, to actually really liking it after only one session. That said. I am going to disagree with some of the other posters on its applicability to new players. While all the stuff for 3.5 is in there, and there are really not that many extra rules (but some), there is a lot of backstory already there. For example, I found that it took a lot of time to explain the different kingdoms, and the different dragonmarked houses to the new players, as well as the races, and the countries. My all-time favorite "setting" for new players is and always will be either the homebrew setting - and/or the orginal 3.0 32 pager for greyhawk. The 32 pager, because all you have to do is photocopy the country or countries that you want to use, and the 3 page history, and away you go. My expierence for first time players, is actually to use the generic homebrew setting as the starting point - a small village -200 or so hundred people, a dungeon, and a bit of forest between the two. Then you can drop it into almost any camapaign setting if they like it. I guess you could do that with Eberron, but you would need to know you are doing that to start. Might be able to work it, not sure. But I did find it a challenge for new players. I think that if you want an established world for brand-new players, try greyhawk, it is the most generic and least filled....
olshanski_home 09-30-04, 08:30 AM	I agree with GMsteeve. Eberron seems better to me as a change-of-pace for experienced players. There are a lot of nifty things happening... if you are experienced with a lot of gameing worlds and conventions, you can appreciate the "niftyness" of the mournlands, the elemental cars, lightning trains, etc. For a newbie, the stuff must all just seem like more wierdness piled atop more wierdness. My first choice is always to use a non-defined homebrew campaign world... just insert elements in your world as people ask about it or as you need it. I usually have several adventures in mind, and then plug them in to an appropriate spot. I'd suggest "Lost City of Barakus" as a great mini-campaign sourcebook for new players. It has a well defined region, and a good mix of dungeon, city, and wilderness adventures. It is designed for characters levels 1-6. It is pretty hefty though. If your characters are already up around level 3-4, then I suggest "Vault of Larin Karr" for the same reasons. It is another mini-campaign taking people from levels 4-10. If you want a world already made for you. I think GMSteve had it best with Greyhawk, but I would also suggest taking a look at the Wilderlands. This is an old campaign world, (some say it was published before the original Greyhawk).... A 3rd party publisher called Necromancer Games has been working on updating it to 3.5 for the past two years. You can find it online if your local gaming store doesn't carry it.