Need help fleshing out this concept. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Need help fleshing out this concept. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
itraylor
09-22-06, 05:09 AM I am working on this character (still a concept) that is going to be a Human Artificer of House Cannith that worships/reveres The Traveler. I plan on becoming a Dragonmarked Heir so Favored in House will be a requirement. I also plan on taking proficiency in the scimitar for flavor reasons (I don’t care so much about optimization) and I also intend to have a Chaotic Neutral alignment, again for flavor reasons. My question is what everyone’s opinion is on how this character would work/act within the structure of the house? How would he effectively revere The Traveler, be Chaotic Neutral and still have the Favored in House feat? I need some suggestions and recommendations on some possible ways to tie everything in. Any tips would be much appreciated. Thanks!
Volaran
09-22-06, 05:38 AM Keep in mind that crafters who revere the Traveler often do so as a source of inspiration. Your character could be considered both erratic, and a genius.

Consider when and why he has aquired the Favoured in House feat. If he's created that way, consider what he might have gone to gain such status. Perhaps he came up with a particularly innovative minor magical item that's becoming popular with the rich ser in Sharn.

If you'll be aquiring the feat later, work with your DM to determine why your character will gain attention as the game progresses. Above all, give in to inspiration often. Be bold and spontaneous, without being foolish. Or alternately, be foolish as well. :P
Goemoe
09-22-06, 06:01 AM Chaotic Neutral alignment, again for flavor reasons. My question is what everyone’s opinion is on how this character would work/act within the structure of the house?

How is anyone of CN alignment working with anyone? He only cares for himself. CN is the most possible selfish char you can make. You don't care what other people think, so you don't hide your attitude. You might be a genius attracting members of the house, but nobody will support you for who you are, only what you are. You will give your DM a very hard time to think of a way to get the group together at all and I don't believe it will stay together long. Even a NE char is better suited for group-play...

A CN will have a hard time in any environment, not that he cares :D
Volaran
09-22-06, 06:48 AM How is anyone of CN alignment working with anyone? He only cares for himself. CN is the most possible selfish char you can make. You don't care what other people think, so you don't hide your attitude. You might be a genius attracting members of the house, but nobody will support you for who you are, only what you are. You will give your DM a very hard time to think of a way to get the group together at all and I don't believe it will stay together long. Even a NE char is better suited for group-play...

A CN will have a hard time in any environment, not that he cares :D

From the wikipedia entry on Chaotic Neutral

"In Third Edition, however, the alignment was expanded to include those characters who had a strong independent streak without a desire to cause others harm or to help strangers to whom they had no attachment. Such characters carry a commitment to personal independence rather than one to randomness and disorder."

I don't think this makes it impossible to work in a group, or to be valued for your skills. If there are any Stargate fans here, that reminds me a lot of Rodney McKay.

In any case, you can find some excellent CN information here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaotic_Neutral
itraylor
09-22-06, 07:12 AM As part of my characters background I was going to have him from the city of Eston, his parents both skilled artificers working at the creation forges. His family died on the Day of Mourning but he was attending The Twelve and therefore out of Cyre. I was going to make his parents very skilled (though they are both dead) so he could have gained the Favored in House feat based on his being a prodigy (though he is low level), his manifestation of a mark of making at such a young age and his parents considerable skill and house ties. As he advances he can become the self-centered genius. I posted on the General boards about properly playing the CN alignment and “ArcTan” had a good description: “

"Self-centered" is what I'd say, not selfish. He thinks *about* himself first, but that's not the same as thinking *of* himself first. A CN character might be very self-sacrificing or self-effacing from someone else's POV, because what's important to him is following his heart and accomplishing his own goals. If his goal is revenge, he might give up everything for that revenge. If his goal is his obsessive passion for one particular person, he might give up everything for that person. If his goal is completing this one task -- this one work of art, say -- he might give everything up for that. It's just that he's always thinking about what *he* wants, not about what "the world" or "the rules" or other people as a whole *need*. He doesn't think about society, nor does he think about logic, nor does he think about philosophy, nor does he think about consistency. Those are all Lawful traits -- the tendency to make yourself conform to external sources of morality or judgment. Chaos is instead about making your own decisions based on what you feel.

Note that a CG character can be *just as Chaotic* and therefore just as self-centered as a CN character. It's just that while CN only thinks about things in terms of what he *wants*, CG characters think in terms of what they think is *right* -- but it's still very much what *they* think is right, and the version of right and wrong that they see, and the parts of right and wrong they care about. They have empathy for others and care about doing good in the world, but only in the world they see right in front of their nose that they find themselves naturally caring about -- not trying to force themselves to do right by a universal ethical standard.”

I think this is a good description of how I could potentially see this character acting. He could maintain the favoritism in the house (though not required to *keep* the feat) by being such a genius and being so valuable to the house that people are willing to do favors and help him out in hopes that he can/will help then in return at some point.
itraylor
09-22-06, 07:38 AM This was also on the wikipedia site:

Roleplaying Chaotic Neutral

Because of the perception of Chaotic Neutral as an alignment of random actions and lunatics, it was long considered one of the hardest alignments to properly roleplay. This is perhaps still true of the strong form, but roleplaying an individualist Chaotic Neutral character is no harder than other alignments.

Individualist Chaotic Neutral

A Chaotic Neutral character’s own personal code of ethics will affect just how the character acts, but generally, Chaotic Neutral characters will undertake tasks or quests, but will expect to be compensated for performing the job, and will often expect extra based on the risk involved. This need not be a pecuniary reward, but a Chaotic Neutral character is unlikely to risk his life for a favour unless the character sees similar value in what could be asked in return to what is being asked for. Some Chaotic Neutral characters strongly oppose stealing any legitimately gotten property from someone, regardless of that person’s actions (though they may be willing to steal objects which a person has acquired immorally), while other make a judgement on whether stealing is permissible on the basis of the character of the person being stolen from. Also, some characters may require payment for any task they perform, while others may perform tasks for no payment to protect innocents if the task does not place him in danger (e.g., a 1st level CN character would require payment to defend a village from Orcs due to the danger involved, while some high-level CN characters might perform the service for free due to orcs posing no threat to the character), or at the request from the character’s friends or family (thus, a CN character might require less or no payment to defend a village from orcs if his friends or their friends or family live there).

Strongly Chaotic Neutral

Characters who hold a conviction to act chaotically are perhaps difficult to roleplay because of the requirement that they consistently act inconsistently. Changing a character’s feelings or opinions on a matter spontaneously can be hard for the roleplayer to do if they are not able to come up with new opinions on the spot, or if they have chosen initially to act on what they believe to be the best course, and thus are reluctant to change to an attitude they do not like. If the character has a tendency to scramble his speech as Planescape’s Xaositects do, this can be hard for some players to do spontaneously. Players may also be reluctant to disrupt the organisation of the party, which can make roleplaying a character committed to promoting chaos either very difficult or inconsistent.

I think that the Individualist Chaotic Neutral will work just fine in a group setting and work with the concept.
Sereno
09-22-06, 09:59 AM A CN Cannith member would be the "nutjob" with the crazy ideas that no one in power listens to.

He might be brilliant and inspired in his ideas, but no one takes him seriously because he will not work well with others, won't be told what to do, won't accept criticism.

However, he could be a source of inspiration for younger, rebellious members of the House who see him as a "fight the power" "rebel *with* a cause" kind of guy. He could, in a sense, be a leader simply because he will NOT be a follower.

It's up to you and your DM to decide if his ideas are right or just nutty. :)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
itraylor 09-22-06, 05:09 AM	I am working on this character (still a concept) that is going to be a Human Artificer of House Cannith that worships/reveres The Traveler. I plan on becoming a Dragonmarked Heir so Favored in House will be a requirement. I also plan on taking proficiency in the scimitar for flavor reasons (I don’t care so much about optimization) and I also intend to have a Chaotic Neutral alignment, again for flavor reasons. My question is what everyone’s opinion is on how this character would work/act within the structure of the house? How would he effectively revere The Traveler, be Chaotic Neutral and still have the Favored in House feat? I need some suggestions and recommendations on some possible ways to tie everything in. Any tips would be much appreciated. Thanks!
Volaran 09-22-06, 05:38 AM	Keep in mind that crafters who revere the Traveler often do so as a source of inspiration. Your character could be considered both erratic, and a genius. Consider when and why he has aquired the Favoured in House feat. If he's created that way, consider what he might have gone to gain such status. Perhaps he came up with a particularly innovative minor magical item that's becoming popular with the rich ser in Sharn. If you'll be aquiring the feat later, work with your DM to determine why your character will gain attention as the game progresses. Above all, give in to inspiration often. Be bold and spontaneous, without being foolish. Or alternately, be foolish as well. :P
Goemoe 09-22-06, 06:01 AM	Chaotic Neutral alignment, again for flavor reasons. My question is what everyone’s opinion is on how this character would work/act within the structure of the house? How is anyone of CN alignment working with anyone? He only cares for himself. CN is the most possible selfish char you can make. You don't care what other people think, so you don't hide your attitude. You might be a genius attracting members of the house, but nobody will support you for who you are, only what you are. You will give your DM a very hard time to think of a way to get the group together at all and I don't believe it will stay together long. Even a NE char is better suited for group-play... A CN will have a hard time in any environment, not that he cares :D
Volaran 09-22-06, 06:48 AM	How is anyone of CN alignment working with anyone? He only cares for himself. CN is the most possible selfish char you can make. You don't care what other people think, so you don't hide your attitude. You might be a genius attracting members of the house, but nobody will support you for who you are, only what you are. You will give your DM a very hard time to think of a way to get the group together at all and I don't believe it will stay together long. Even a NE char is better suited for group-play... A CN will have a hard time in any environment, not that he cares :D From the wikipedia entry on Chaotic Neutral "In Third Edition, however, the alignment was expanded to include those characters who had a strong independent streak without a desire to cause others harm or to help strangers to whom they had no attachment. Such characters carry a commitment to personal independence rather than one to randomness and disorder." I don't think this makes it impossible to work in a group, or to be valued for your skills. If there are any Stargate fans here, that reminds me a lot of Rodney McKay. In any case, you can find some excellent CN information here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaotic_Neutral
itraylor 09-22-06, 07:12 AM	As part of my characters background I was going to have him from the city of Eston, his parents both skilled artificers working at the creation forges. His family died on the Day of Mourning but he was attending The Twelve and therefore out of Cyre. I was going to make his parents very skilled (though they are both dead) so he could have gained the Favored in House feat based on his being a prodigy (though he is low level), his manifestation of a mark of making at such a young age and his parents considerable skill and house ties. As he advances he can become the self-centered genius. I posted on the General boards about properly playing the CN alignment and “ArcTan” had a good description: “ "Self-centered" is what I'd say, not selfish. He thinks about himself first, but that's not the same as thinking of himself first. A CN character might be very self-sacrificing or self-effacing from someone else's POV, because what's important to him is following his heart and accomplishing his own goals. If his goal is revenge, he might give up everything for that revenge. If his goal is his obsessive passion for one particular person, he might give up everything for that person. If his goal is completing this one task -- this one work of art, say -- he might give everything up for that. It's just that he's always thinking about what he wants, not about what "the world" or "the rules" or other people as a whole need. He doesn't think about society, nor does he think about logic, nor does he think about philosophy, nor does he think about consistency. Those are all Lawful traits -- the tendency to make yourself conform to external sources of morality or judgment. Chaos is instead about making your own decisions based on what you feel. Note that a CG character can be just as Chaotic and therefore just as self-centered as a CN character. It's just that while CN only thinks about things in terms of what he wants, CG characters think in terms of what they think is right -- but it's still very much what they think is right, and the version of right and wrong that they see, and the parts of right and wrong they care about. They have empathy for others and care about doing good in the world, but only in the world they see right in front of their nose that they find themselves naturally caring about -- not trying to force themselves to do right by a universal ethical standard.” I think this is a good description of how I could potentially see this character acting. He could maintain the favoritism in the house (though not required to keep the feat) by being such a genius and being so valuable to the house that people are willing to do favors and help him out in hopes that he can/will help then in return at some point.
itraylor 09-22-06, 07:38 AM	This was also on the wikipedia site: Roleplaying Chaotic Neutral Because of the perception of Chaotic Neutral as an alignment of random actions and lunatics, it was long considered one of the hardest alignments to properly roleplay. This is perhaps still true of the strong form, but roleplaying an individualist Chaotic Neutral character is no harder than other alignments. Individualist Chaotic Neutral A Chaotic Neutral character’s own personal code of ethics will affect just how the character acts, but generally, Chaotic Neutral characters will undertake tasks or quests, but will expect to be compensated for performing the job, and will often expect extra based on the risk involved. This need not be a pecuniary reward, but a Chaotic Neutral character is unlikely to risk his life for a favour unless the character sees similar value in what could be asked in return to what is being asked for. Some Chaotic Neutral characters strongly oppose stealing any legitimately gotten property from someone, regardless of that person’s actions (though they may be willing to steal objects which a person has acquired immorally), while other make a judgement on whether stealing is permissible on the basis of the character of the person being stolen from. Also, some characters may require payment for any task they perform, while others may perform tasks for no payment to protect innocents if the task does not place him in danger (e.g., a 1st level CN character would require payment to defend a village from Orcs due to the danger involved, while some high-level CN characters might perform the service for free due to orcs posing no threat to the character), or at the request from the character’s friends or family (thus, a CN character might require less or no payment to defend a village from orcs if his friends or their friends or family live there). Strongly Chaotic Neutral Characters who hold a conviction to act chaotically are perhaps difficult to roleplay because of the requirement that they consistently act inconsistently. Changing a character’s feelings or opinions on a matter spontaneously can be hard for the roleplayer to do if they are not able to come up with new opinions on the spot, or if they have chosen initially to act on what they believe to be the best course, and thus are reluctant to change to an attitude they do not like. If the character has a tendency to scramble his speech as Planescape’s Xaositects do, this can be hard for some players to do spontaneously. Players may also be reluctant to disrupt the organisation of the party, which can make roleplaying a character committed to promoting chaos either very difficult or inconsistent. I think that the Individualist Chaotic Neutral will work just fine in a group setting and work with the concept.
Sereno 09-22-06, 09:59 AM	A CN Cannith member would be the "nutjob" with the crazy ideas that no one in power listens to. He might be brilliant and inspired in his ideas, but no one takes him seriously because he will not work well with others, won't be told what to do, won't accept criticism. However, he could be a source of inspiration for younger, rebellious members of the House who see him as a "fight the power" "rebel with a cause" kind of guy. He could, in a sense, be a leader simply because he will NOT be a follower. It's up to you and your DM to decide if his ideas are right or just nutty. :)