Nervous No Longer - Five Nations Excerpt [Archive] - Wizards Community

Nervous No Longer - Five Nations Excerpt [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Euangelion
07-06-05, 01:04 AM I just looked over the 5 Nations excerpt, and it looks like very good work. The political stuff is solid, AFAICT, as is the historical info. Caught just one mistake, that being that Darro ir'Lain does not meet the prereq.s for the Knight Phantom PrC since he doesn't have a source of proficiency in all martial weapons. I suggest adding one level of aristocrat to his classes and ranks to cover the prereq.
I'm very much looking forward to the book.
stone_dog
07-06-05, 01:19 AM Excelent!

Might want to change the title of your thread a bit though to avoid multiple excerpt threads. Just a little (Five Nations Excerpt up) should suffice.
Guide D'Jorasco
07-06-05, 01:40 AM I agree, something like Five Nations comments, something recognizable. Five Nations looks promising, but I hope it has a lot more detailed and promising descriptions than what's in the preview.
Magnificate
07-06-05, 02:40 AM Now only a single company of 150 knight phantoms remains on active duty.
Only? That's 150 at least 6th level characters! Even if lower-level wizards are accepted to this elite unit (and other Phantom Knight uses his Phantoom Steed power on his behalf) that leaves us with 50 6th level characters. Wasn't Eberron supposed to be a wide-but-low magic setting? It was also supposed to be low-level, wasn't it?
Zedium
07-06-05, 03:03 AM Also, note that they got the alignments all wrong.
Adal is NE instead of the LN according to the ECS
Aurala is NG instead of CG.

I am not confident in the whole thing yet, I will have to see the book first. But really, if the exerpt already contains questionable stuff, I wonder how it will end up once we get the whole book.
Slayen
07-06-05, 03:13 AM I'm not worried. They also had alignment gaffs in S:CoT and that turned out fine.
Korhal_IV
07-06-05, 03:49 AM Only? That's 150 at least 6th level characters! Even if lower-level wizards are accepted to this elite unit (and other Phantom Knight uses his Phantoom Steed power on his behalf) that leaves us with 50 6th level characters. Wasn't Eberron supposed to be a wide-but-low magic setting? It was also supposed to be low-level, wasn't it?
Sixth level IS low!

My God, people, not EVERYONE is first level! :eek:

150 6th level NPCs. They cover just about one city in Aundair, and might be enough to put down riots. Or they can be particularly devastating in one engagement. WOO! POWER!
Beleriphon
07-06-05, 04:45 AM Only? That's 150 at least 6th level characters! Even if lower-level wizards are accepted to this elite unit (and other Phantom Knight uses his Phantoom Steed power on his behalf) that leaves us with 50 6th level characters. Wasn't Eberron supposed to be a wide-but-low magic setting? It was also supposed to be low-level, wasn't it?

I'd assume that these guys are an elite unit, 6th level seems pretty elite in regards to most other soldiers who sit at around 3rd level for a vetern. Also 150 isn't really that many, when faced with sizable raiding force of what ever PrC is presented for Breland, or Karrnath, or Thrane I'm sure that 150 knight phantoms aren't going to be overly terrifying.

Something else to keep in mind is that Aundair relies heavily on magic to cover for a much smaller population than the rest of the Five Nations. As a break down we can see that Breland can yeild the single largest military of all the nations, composed mostly of well equipped but non-elite troops. Karrnath relies heavily on its undead troops to supplement its wanning population. Thrane as a military power seems to have more elite infantry and cavalry than the other nations, but they still can't wield the numbers that Breland could.
The Dreaming Duck
07-06-05, 09:34 AM Even if lower-level wizards are accepted to this elite unit (and other Phantom Knight uses his Phantoom Steed power on his behalf) that leaves us with 50 6th level characters. Wasn't Eberron supposed to be a wide-but-low magic setting? It was also supposed to be low-level, wasn't it?
Belipheron make an excellent point, namely that Aundair is supposed to cover its small military force with greater arcane support. And 50-150 6th level characters as the elite force of a nation is hardly high level compared to, say, FR, where such a group would be a village militia. Look at the Redcloaks in Sharn: they may be mostly NPC classes, but they're over this level. And the Valenar apparently have thousands of soldiers of this level. If they said that there were THOUSANDS of knight phantoms or that they were all 12th level, I'd be concerned. Personally I think that they showed restraint appropriate to the setting to say that there are less than two hundred of them.

As I recall, Hellcow's statement was something like "1st level PC is good, 6th is impressive, 12 gives you a reputation in your region, 18th you're a legend." In Sharn, Handan Dol is, I think, CR 12 and said to be the subject of songs and stories. 6th-level phantoms will be rightfully respected and acknowledged as the elite of their land, but they aren't breaking the setting.
The White Sorcerer
07-06-05, 10:35 AM According to the Dungeon Master's Guide, 7th-level is on the low end of the middle levels. So it's not that high.
Dravot
07-06-05, 10:50 AM What's the release date for Five Nations?
Hair Wax
07-06-05, 11:35 AM Tomorrow according to Wizards site, today according to Amazon. Although when I'll get to see it I don't know, Amazon seem to have stopped accepting PayPal so I'll have to wait for it to get into Travelling Man in a week or two (grumble, grumble, moan)
Edymnion
07-06-05, 04:32 PM Yeah, accourding to Eberron, 6th level is where you're supposed to be one of the best in your fields, widely known and respected in your field, and all around hot stuff. 150 elite soldiers being 6th level is still pretty much in line with the setting. I mean, think of it from the default viewpoint in D&D. The "elite" guard is lvl SIX?

The only problem I would have with 'em is if there was more than one or two people in the world that have actually gotten to some of the better powers. But, thats my objection with PrC in Eberron at all, they should be INSANELY rare. I mean, people with PC classes alone are an oddity here, and anyone with more than 2-3 levels, especially in PC classes, are big time guys (I believe I read that the head of a large city thieve's guild would likely only be a 3rd or 4th level Rogue). Eberron PrC should be INCREDIBLY Prestigeous, as it would literally be only the best of the best of the best that could even HOPE to get into one.
Wizardman
07-06-05, 06:23 PM Back to alignment difficulties...

the description of Aurala bothered me. She comes across as being neutral, yet she is statted as neutral good. I know that that isn't necessarily a problem. Kaius is evil, yet devoted to keeping the peace. I know that alignment is only a guideline in Eberron, but everything in Aurala's 'bio' indicated that she wants the crown of Galifar and is willing to plunge the continent into another war if that's what it takes to get it. Nothing prevents a good character from being ambitious, but this is ridiculous.
Siran Dunmorgan
07-06-05, 06:35 PM Back to alignment difficulties...

the description of Aurala bothered me. She comes across as being neutral, yet she is statted as neutral good. I know that that isn't necessarily a problem. Kaius is evil, yet devoted to keeping the peace. I know that alignment is only a guideline in Eberron, but everything in Aurala's 'bio' indicated that she wants the crown of Galifar and is willing to plunge the continent into another war if that's what it takes to get it. Nothing prevents a good character from being ambitious, but this is ridiculous.

You know, we have a whole thread about this already:

http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?goto=newpost&t=459312

Hop on over! You're welcome to contribute!

—Siran Dunmorgan
polt
07-06-05, 07:37 PM I think the book looks promising. The excerpt was nice, so I'm happy :)
Dravot
07-06-05, 07:40 PM I'm picking up my copy in an hour, when my wife gets back.

Glee!
zentr
07-06-05, 07:49 PM Let us know how it is Dravot!

I'm wondering about the fact that if it is just about the Five Nations, do we not get more info about places like the Eldeen Reaches, Talenta, or Valenar? Or are they somehow considered to be part of those? I guess they aren't "nations"?

Anyways, I like some of the features and how it is laid out (history, PrC, and monsters for each Nation in it's own chapter, for instance). I look forward to it. But I would love to hear something about the book that really makes me eager to get it.
Crimsonsun
07-06-05, 08:05 PM My FLGS wont let me buy it until Friday.. I got a good look at it this afternoon tho... :D
Bluebrush
07-06-05, 08:06 PM Well, they can only fit so much into a book.
No doubt there will be sourcebooks for the other areas in time, probably split between two more books, like East and West Khorvaire or "Wilds of Khorvaire" (The wastes, The Reaches, The Marches, Droaam, Talenta, Q'barra) and "Civilisations of Khorvaire" (Zilargo, Darguun, Valenar, The Holds, The Principalities) or possibly some other way.
If there's demand for them, they'll probably make them.
Zalaz Mavi
07-06-05, 08:24 PM Kind of an aside here — has anyone else noticed that the names of the authors who worked on the book have changed? Bill Slavicsek, David Noonan and Christopher Perkins weren't the listed authors yesterday...

No doubt there will be sourcebooks for the other areas in time...

Ever since Five Nations was announced, I've always figured they would do a "Young Nations" book covering the Eldeen Reaches, Lhazaar, Q'barra, etc. and then an "Ancient Peoples" book to cover Darguun, Valenar, Zilargo, Talenta, etc.
Troy70
07-06-05, 09:09 PM I can't wait to get the book myself :D .
DavidB
07-06-05, 10:54 PM I am not trying to pick at nits or anything but....

To repeat, it says....

Now only a single company of 150 kinght phantoms remains on active duty

Provided there is no feat that grants martial profeciency all to a character, a knight phantom would be at least 7th level. Fighter 1/Wizard 5/Knight Phantom 1.
Blacksmore
07-07-05, 12:21 AM I am excited for this book...I won't have it for atleast a week but knowing that I am def getting it, I couldn't be more happy.
Kalanth
07-07-05, 12:31 AM Having purchased my copy this morning, I must say that I am not concerned any longer. The book looks great, though I have barely touched it before heading into work. My only concern at all, its deceptively short, its actually just a hair shorter than Weapons of Legacy. I will paruse this book more tomorrow at our weekly Geek Night.
Bryce
07-07-05, 12:47 AM My only issue with the book is I'll have to get up early to head into the city to my FLGS to get mine before work, I can't wait though.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Euangelion 07-06-05, 01:04 AM	I just looked over the 5 Nations excerpt, and it looks like very good work. The political stuff is solid, AFAICT, as is the historical info. Caught just one mistake, that being that Darro ir'Lain does not meet the prereq.s for the Knight Phantom PrC since he doesn't have a source of proficiency in all martial weapons. I suggest adding one level of aristocrat to his classes and ranks to cover the prereq. I'm very much looking forward to the book.
stone_dog 07-06-05, 01:19 AM	Excelent! Might want to change the title of your thread a bit though to avoid multiple excerpt threads. Just a little (Five Nations Excerpt up) should suffice.
Guide D'Jorasco 07-06-05, 01:40 AM	I agree, something like Five Nations comments, something recognizable. Five Nations looks promising, but I hope it has a lot more detailed and promising descriptions than what's in the preview.
Magnificate 07-06-05, 02:40 AM	Now only a single company of 150 knight phantoms remains on active duty. Only? That's 150 at least 6th level characters! Even if lower-level wizards are accepted to this elite unit (and other Phantom Knight uses his Phantoom Steed power on his behalf) that leaves us with 50 6th level characters. Wasn't Eberron supposed to be a wide-but-low magic setting? It was also supposed to be low-level, wasn't it?
Zedium 07-06-05, 03:03 AM	Also, note that they got the alignments all wrong. Adal is NE instead of the LN according to the ECS Aurala is NG instead of CG. I am not confident in the whole thing yet, I will have to see the book first. But really, if the exerpt already contains questionable stuff, I wonder how it will end up once we get the whole book.
Slayen 07-06-05, 03:13 AM	I'm not worried. They also had alignment gaffs in S:CoT and that turned out fine.
Korhal_IV 07-06-05, 03:49 AM	Only? That's 150 at least 6th level characters! Even if lower-level wizards are accepted to this elite unit (and other Phantom Knight uses his Phantoom Steed power on his behalf) that leaves us with 50 6th level characters. Wasn't Eberron supposed to be a wide-but-low magic setting? It was also supposed to be low-level, wasn't it? Sixth level IS low! My God, people, not EVERYONE is first level! :eek: 150 6th level NPCs. They cover just about one city in Aundair, and might be enough to put down riots. Or they can be particularly devastating in one engagement. WOO! POWER!
Beleriphon 07-06-05, 04:45 AM	Only? That's 150 at least 6th level characters! Even if lower-level wizards are accepted to this elite unit (and other Phantom Knight uses his Phantoom Steed power on his behalf) that leaves us with 50 6th level characters. Wasn't Eberron supposed to be a wide-but-low magic setting? It was also supposed to be low-level, wasn't it? I'd assume that these guys are an elite unit, 6th level seems pretty elite in regards to most other soldiers who sit at around 3rd level for a vetern. Also 150 isn't really that many, when faced with sizable raiding force of what ever PrC is presented for Breland, or Karrnath, or Thrane I'm sure that 150 knight phantoms aren't going to be overly terrifying. Something else to keep in mind is that Aundair relies heavily on magic to cover for a much smaller population than the rest of the Five Nations. As a break down we can see that Breland can yeild the single largest military of all the nations, composed mostly of well equipped but non-elite troops. Karrnath relies heavily on its undead troops to supplement its wanning population. Thrane as a military power seems to have more elite infantry and cavalry than the other nations, but they still can't wield the numbers that Breland could.
The Dreaming Duck 07-06-05, 09:34 AM	Even if lower-level wizards are accepted to this elite unit (and other Phantom Knight uses his Phantoom Steed power on his behalf) that leaves us with 50 6th level characters. Wasn't Eberron supposed to be a wide-but-low magic setting? It was also supposed to be low-level, wasn't it? Belipheron make an excellent point, namely that Aundair is supposed to cover its small military force with greater arcane support. And 50-150 6th level characters as the elite force of a nation is hardly high level compared to, say, FR, where such a group would be a village militia. Look at the Redcloaks in Sharn: they may be mostly NPC classes, but they're over this level. And the Valenar apparently have thousands of soldiers of this level. If they said that there were THOUSANDS of knight phantoms or that they were all 12th level, I'd be concerned. Personally I think that they showed restraint appropriate to the setting to say that there are less than two hundred of them. As I recall, Hellcow's statement was something like "1st level PC is good, 6th is impressive, 12 gives you a reputation in your region, 18th you're a legend." In Sharn, Handan Dol is, I think, CR 12 and said to be the subject of songs and stories. 6th-level phantoms will be rightfully respected and acknowledged as the elite of their land, but they aren't breaking the setting.
The White Sorcerer 07-06-05, 10:35 AM	According to the Dungeon Master's Guide, 7th-level is on the low end of the middle levels. So it's not that high.
Dravot 07-06-05, 10:50 AM	What's the release date for Five Nations?
Hair Wax 07-06-05, 11:35 AM	Tomorrow according to Wizards site, today according to Amazon. Although when I'll get to see it I don't know, Amazon seem to have stopped accepting PayPal so I'll have to wait for it to get into Travelling Man in a week or two (grumble, grumble, moan)
Edymnion 07-06-05, 04:32 PM	Yeah, accourding to Eberron, 6th level is where you're supposed to be one of the best in your fields, widely known and respected in your field, and all around hot stuff. 150 elite soldiers being 6th level is still pretty much in line with the setting. I mean, think of it from the default viewpoint in D&D. The "elite" guard is lvl SIX? The only problem I would have with 'em is if there was more than one or two people in the world that have actually gotten to some of the better powers. But, thats my objection with PrC in Eberron at all, they should be INSANELY rare. I mean, people with PC classes alone are an oddity here, and anyone with more than 2-3 levels, especially in PC classes, are big time guys (I believe I read that the head of a large city thieve's guild would likely only be a 3rd or 4th level Rogue). Eberron PrC should be INCREDIBLY Prestigeous, as it would literally be only the best of the best of the best that could even HOPE to get into one.
Wizardman 07-06-05, 06:23 PM	Back to alignment difficulties... the description of Aurala bothered me. She comes across as being neutral, yet she is statted as neutral good. I know that that isn't necessarily a problem. Kaius is evil, yet devoted to keeping the peace. I know that alignment is only a guideline in Eberron, but everything in Aurala's 'bio' indicated that she wants the crown of Galifar and is willing to plunge the continent into another war if that's what it takes to get it. Nothing prevents a good character from being ambitious, but this is ridiculous.
Siran Dunmorgan 07-06-05, 06:35 PM	Back to alignment difficulties... the description of Aurala bothered me. She comes across as being neutral, yet she is statted as neutral good. I know that that isn't necessarily a problem. Kaius is evil, yet devoted to keeping the peace. I know that alignment is only a guideline in Eberron, but everything in Aurala's 'bio' indicated that she wants the crown of Galifar and is willing to plunge the continent into another war if that's what it takes to get it. Nothing prevents a good character from being ambitious, but this is ridiculous. You know, we have a whole thread about this already: http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?goto=newpost&t=459312 Hop on over! You're welcome to contribute! —Siran Dunmorgan
polt 07-06-05, 07:37 PM	I think the book looks promising. The excerpt was nice, so I'm happy :)
Dravot 07-06-05, 07:40 PM	I'm picking up my copy in an hour, when my wife gets back. Glee!
zentr 07-06-05, 07:49 PM	Let us know how it is Dravot! I'm wondering about the fact that if it is just about the Five Nations, do we not get more info about places like the Eldeen Reaches, Talenta, or Valenar? Or are they somehow considered to be part of those? I guess they aren't "nations"? Anyways, I like some of the features and how it is laid out (history, PrC, and monsters for each Nation in it's own chapter, for instance). I look forward to it. But I would love to hear something about the book that really makes me eager to get it.
Crimsonsun 07-06-05, 08:05 PM	My FLGS wont let me buy it until Friday.. I got a good look at it this afternoon tho... :D
Bluebrush 07-06-05, 08:06 PM	Well, they can only fit so much into a book. No doubt there will be sourcebooks for the other areas in time, probably split between two more books, like East and West Khorvaire or "Wilds of Khorvaire" (The wastes, The Reaches, The Marches, Droaam, Talenta, Q'barra) and "Civilisations of Khorvaire" (Zilargo, Darguun, Valenar, The Holds, The Principalities) or possibly some other way. If there's demand for them, they'll probably make them.
Zalaz Mavi 07-06-05, 08:24 PM	Kind of an aside here — has anyone else noticed that the names of the authors who worked on the book have changed? Bill Slavicsek, David Noonan and Christopher Perkins weren't the listed authors yesterday... No doubt there will be sourcebooks for the other areas in time... Ever since Five Nations was announced, I've always figured they would do a "Young Nations" book covering the Eldeen Reaches, Lhazaar, Q'barra, etc. and then an "Ancient Peoples" book to cover Darguun, Valenar, Zilargo, Talenta, etc.
Troy70 07-06-05, 09:09 PM	I can't wait to get the book myself :D .
DavidB 07-06-05, 10:54 PM	I am not trying to pick at nits or anything but.... To repeat, it says.... Now only a single company of 150 kinght phantoms remains on active duty Provided there is no feat that grants martial profeciency all to a character, a knight phantom would be at least 7th level. Fighter 1/Wizard 5/Knight Phantom 1.
Blacksmore 07-07-05, 12:21 AM	I am excited for this book...I won't have it for atleast a week but knowing that I am def getting it, I couldn't be more happy.
Kalanth 07-07-05, 12:31 AM	Having purchased my copy this morning, I must say that I am not concerned any longer. The book looks great, though I have barely touched it before heading into work. My only concern at all, its deceptively short, its actually just a hair shorter than Weapons of Legacy. I will paruse this book more tomorrow at our weekly Geek Night.
Bryce 07-07-05, 12:47 AM	My only issue with the book is I'll have to get up early to head into the city to my FLGS to get mine before work, I can't wait though.