Post/Author/DateTime	Post
lds_soldier 05-11-07, 10:22 PM	The Keystone: Construction of the largest, most powerful airship to date began in 994 YK as a joint project between House Lyrandar and House Orien. Originally, she was designed to be a more efficient means of cargo transport. Three years into construction, the Keystone was stolen by House Cannith agents with the assistance of a rogue Wizard out of the Lhazar Principalities. There construction as per plan was finished and a crew of locals made here maiden voyage. Unfortunately, it was the last voyage she made as a commercial vessel. Only two days into the trip to Breland, the Keystone was again stolen, this time by the Emerald Claw. Under new ownership, the Keystone's original huge fire elemental was exchanged for two gargantuan air elementals. Also, not satisfied with simple cargo and utility purposes, the Emerald Claw added fifty ballistae and twenty experimental gnomish cannon. The Keystone is flown by Captain Ordelvnik Charlega (CN male human Sorcerer 12/Dragonmark Heir 4) with the help of his First Mate Krel (N male Half-Orc expert 4) and several eager apprentice pilots. Captain Charlega mostly raids within the Lhazar Principalities but sometimes forays into the interior of Khorvaire in his quest for riches and plunder in the name of the Emerald Claw. The Keystone is on the wanted lists of almost every nation and private industry of Khorvaire for various reasons, most of them involving similar uses under new masters. She is equipped with all the immenities from on-board showers to a full-service galley. There are 18 passenger cabins, 4 of them outfitted for the ultimate in luxury and comfort. 350 crew keep her flying, including Captain, 4 elemental mages, a Master Carpenter with several apprentices, an experienced Cook, and a full complement of gnomes (a much debated presence with most of the crew who avoid Deck 4 as much as possible). There are also bunks for up to 100 additional crew, occupied at the moment by Emerald Claw soldiers. Special Items onboard: -Ramming Prow -Captain's Table -Charts of Certainty -Non-Dimensional Trunk (Captain's Quarters) Stats: -Length: 400 feet -Width: 120 feet (320 feet mast-to-mast) -Height: 70 feet (300 feet mast-to-mast) -Weight: 1355 tons -Cargo Capacity: 6480 cubic feet or 100 tons -Passenger Capacity: 22 -Crew: 350 -Power: Gargantuan Air Elemental (x2) -Materials: Soarwood, Darkwood, Steel, Ironwood Armor -Cost to Build: 320,000 gp -Cost to Operate: (yearly) 30,000 gp Colossal Vehicle; Airworthiness +6; Shiphandling -15; Speed Fly 60 ft (poor); Overall AC -5; Hull Sections 1950 (crash 450 sections); Section hp 30 (hardness 10); Section AC 5; Ram 15d6; SA Air Ring (x2); SQ resistance to fire 10; Hover; Space 400 ft x 120 ft; Height 70 ft (Fire Ring has 320 ft diameter) Diagrams: http://s9.photobucket.com/albums/a53/lds_soldier/Keystone%20Deck%20Plans/ I have the all the stats including special items aboard, but I dont have time to post them right now. Let me know what you think. Constructive criticism only please.
korcheck 05-12-07, 01:45 PM	It looks good on the surface but I wander where you came up with the price it seems a bit low. I can actually picture it as having one giant ring amid ship with one more both for and aft to help steer it this also means you need one hell of a captain to control the elementals or else maybe have a trio of pilots with a telepathy type crown or hat or some such to properly co-ordinate the movement of the ship with multiple elementals.
lds_soldier 05-12-07, 08:32 PM	thanx Korchek, I'm still working out crew and ammenities, let me know if you've got any ideas, I'd like to get this off the ground and running, I've got a great idea for a campaign I'd like to run, the plot of which will flow around the history of this vessel. I need as much detail as I can get. Also, I'm trying to get a better scan of my drafts. If there is a better website to use for posting photos, please let me know. I can't seem to get a higher pixel quality on photobucket.
korcheck 05-13-07, 12:36 PM	Holy cow, how the heck did I miss the freakin' drawings lol that changed the pic in my head completely. I hate to say it but that isn't a ship that's a barge. But wait that isn't a bad thing because that is/was its original intent that seems a bit extreme on the ballista count you figure each on takes 3 to 6 men IIRC thats 156 to 312 ballistamen just for deck six and then you have 20 guns on deck 4 I know that cannon take at least 4 men run proficiently thats another 80 men plus gunner officers between the 2 groups you're looking at anywhere from 259 to 415 personel just for the gun/ballista crew (I came up with this number by taking the original numbers and adding in officers and support personel for the nearly 2 companies of men you would have) then there is the actual fighting soldiers if you are going to have that plus their officers figure a short company there at 45 to 50 men plus the actual crew of the ship maybe another 40. Figure a minimum of 250 if you nock off the non-essentials and double up the work on some of the crew. I'll be back later to give more ideas.
Toloran 05-13-07, 01:15 PM	Holy cow, how the heck did I miss the freakin' drawings lol that changed the pic in my head completely. I hate to say it but that isn't a ship that's a barge. But wait that isn't a bad thing because that is/was its original intent that seems a bit extreme on the ballista count you figure each on takes 3 to 6 men IIRC thats 156 to 312 ballistamen just for deck six and then you have 20 guns on deck 4 I know that cannon take at least 4 men run proficiently thats another 80 men plus gunner officers between the 2 groups you're looking at anywhere from 259 to 415 personel just for the gun/ballista crew (I came up with this number by taking the original numbers and adding in officers and support personel for the nearly 2 companies of men you would have) then there is the actual fighting soldiers if you are going to have that plus their officers figure a short company there at 45 to 50 men plus the actual crew of the ship maybe another 40. Figure a minimum of 250 if you nock off the non-essentials and double up the work on some of the crew. I'll be back later to give more ideas. Actually, that might not be the case for the ballista. In one of the eberron adventures (Whispers of the Vampire's Blade I think), the Airship you are on has ballistae with auto-loaders. They still require the same time to load, they can just be done with fewer people.
lds_soldier 05-13-07, 03:33 PM	so figure maybe 2 ea for the ballistae with auto-loaders (+3 officers for ea group) for a total of 106-110 maybe...then 4 ea for the cannon (+3-4 officers ea group) for a total of 86-90...150 crew (including officers, remember, this is an airship, it does not require the massive amounts of men that a sailing ship does. Most of the work is done by the mages unless they get into bad weather or battle. Then 2 small companies of soldiers + officers for a total of 110... For a grand total onboard of 460. There is room for 410 crew on Deck 3. (male quarters are 100 ft x 30 ft...figure 3 bunks high, ea is 6ft x 3ft, plus 2ft between rows and between bunks = 225...female quarters are 1/2 that (110)and officers are 1/3 that (75) ea... Gnomes all have quarters on Deck 4 and rarely sleep anyway...Mages berth in the luxury cabins...and additional officer quarters on Deck 3 So with the soldiers onboard...it will be a tight squeeze to put everyone in a bunk at the same time, but the crew will have rotating shifts maybe...? Have I missed anything? Also keep in mind, as far as the ballista and gun count, that this has been converted into a machine of war, it takes massive penalties to speed and agility, making it pretty much a "barge" as you said, but it can take a whole lot of damage and deals it out just as well. The best thing to use against it would be mages in smaller, more maneuverable airships at great distances...
korcheck 05-13-07, 04:44 PM	yeah that sounds about right at 460 and it alows you to cut it down as needed so 460 optimum say 250 to 300 minimum. You have 350 listed which would work for its original intent. Everything else sounds great I may even steal the final product for my campaign.
lds_soldier 05-13-07, 05:02 PM	Thanx, All I need now are base stats for weapon stats and damage, and to roll up the mages, soldiers, craftsmen, etc... I'm not sure how detailed I want/need to get with this, but I've got a couple weeks before I'll need it, so I might as well make it good...? Any ideas for stats on an elemental mage or ideas on plotlines that could surround this vessel...I'm thinking maybe the EC is coming out of hiding and perhaps making a power grab at Eastern Khorvaire? Mabe BoV is making a comeback? (I can email those scans to you directly if you want better detail than what photobucket is giving...)
lds_soldier 05-13-07, 05:42 PM	Think maybe the cannon are magical somehow rather than firing projectiles? They are gnomish, and the Captain abhors the noise involved, but I've seen a lot of controversy over firearms in Eberron, so maybe the gnomes have worked together with the mages to come up with something diabolically original and far too simple to suit the gnomes, resulting in a steam/hydraulic/magically powered electrical discharge of some sort?
korcheck 05-14-07, 10:39 AM	Think maybe the cannon are magical somehow rather than firing projectiles? They are gnomish, and the Captain abhors the noise involved, but I've seen a lot of controversy over firearms in Eberron, so maybe the gnomes have worked together with the mages to come up with something diabolically original and far too simple to suit the gnomes, resulting in a steam/hydraulic/magically powered electrical discharge of some sort? I think a slight silent spell directed on the cannons would reduce the noise, as for the ballista stuff if you need stats I can get those for you out of my heroes of battle book. For the cannons if you want something magic check out the thread on guns in the weapons board it may help alot in that regards. Weapon Name | Cost | Base Spell | Range | Damage | Targets | Damage Type | Saving Throw --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- B.A.D. (Bound Acidic Devices) A-1 Acid Spear 2250 gp Acid Arrow 35 ft 2d4* Single Acid none A-2 Acid Sphere 188 gp Acid Slash 35 ft 1d3 Single Acid none T.A.D. (Tactical Advantage Devices) ***These are all single-use items*** G-1 Grease Ball 75 gp Grease 30 ft --- 10' cube none Ref (avoid) GB-2 Laughing Gas 900 gp Hideous Laughter 30 ft --- 5' radius none Will (negate) GB-3 Knockout Gas 75 gp Sleep 30 ft --- 10' radius none Will (negate) GB-4 Stink Cloud 1125 gp Stinking Cloud 30 ft Nausea 20' radius none Fort (negate) H-1 Binder 1350 gp Hold Person 30 ft --- Single none Will (negate) LB-1 Flash-Blind 2700 gp Blind/Deaf 30 ft Blind 5' radius none Fort (negate) SB-1 Deaf Sphere 2700 gp Blind/Deaf 30 ft Deaf 5' radius none Fort (negate) SB-2 Stun Sphere 750 gp Sound Burst 30 ft 1d8+Stun 10' radius none Fort (stun) M.U.D. (Magical Undead Destroyers) D-1 Disrupter 188 gp Disrupt Undead 35 ft 1d6 Single Positive none S-1 Scorcher 6750 gp Searing Light 35 ft 6d6 Single Positive none W.F. (Wind Force) M1 Force Bolt 375 gp Magic Missile 35 ft 1d4+1 Single Force none M2 Force Bolt 1125 gp Magic Missile 35 ft 2d4+2 Single Force none Wind Force (1 use) 3375 gp Control Winds 30 ft 2d6 + Trip 40' radius Force Fort (trip) E.D.D.I. (Elemental Damage-Dealing Infusions) FP-1 Slinger 375 gp Produce Flame 35 ft 1d6+1 Single Fire none FP-2 Slinger 1125 gp Produce Flame 35 ft 1d6+3 Single Fire none FP-3 Slinger 1875 gp Produce Flame 35 ft 1d6+5 Single Fire none FH-1 Flamer 188 gp Burning Hands 35 ft 1d4 Single Fire Ref (1/2) FH-2 Flamer 563 gp Burning Hands 35 ft 3d4 Single Fire Ref (1/2) FH-3 Flamer 438 gp Burning Hands 35 ft 5d4 Single Fire Ref (1/2) FS-1 Crossbow 2250 gp Scorching Ray 35 ft 4d6 Single Fire none FB-1 Burst Shot 1688 gp Fireball 35 ft 3d6 Single Fire Ref (1/2) FB-2 Burst Shot 3375 gp Fireball 35 ft 6d6 Single Fire Ref (1/2) CF-1 Crossbow 188 gp Ray of Frost 35 ft 1d3 Single Cold none EB-1 Thunder Spear 1688 gp Lightning Bolt 35 ft 3d6 Single Electric none EB-2 Thunder Spear 2250 gp Lightning Bolt 35 ft 4d6 Single Electric none EB-3 Thunder Spear 3375 gp Lightning Bolt 35 ft 6d6 Single Electric none EG-1 Scrambler 375 gp Shocking Grasp 5 ft 1d6 Single Electric none EG-2 Scrambler 1125 gp Shocking Grasp 5 ft 3d6 Single Electric none EG-3 Scrambler 1875 gp Shocking Grasp 5 ft 5d6 Single Electric none R.E.D.D.I. (Radius Elemental Damage-Dealing Infusions) ***These are all single-use items*** FH-4 Flamer 188 gp Burning Hands 30 ft 1d4 15' cone Fire Ref (1/2) FH-5 Flamer 563 gp Burning Hands 30 ft 3d4 15' cone Fire Ref (1/2) FH-6 Flamer 938 gp Burning Hands 30 ft 5d4 15' cone Fire Ref (1/2) FE-1 Explosion 2813 gp Explosive Rune Special 6d6 10' radius Fire Ref (1/2) FT-1 Ambush 1875 gp Fire Trap Special 1d4+5 5' radius Fire Ref (1/2) FB-1 Fireball 1688 gp Fireball 30 ft 3d6 20' radius Fire Ref (1/2) FB-2 Fireball 2250 gp Fireball 30 ft 4d6 20' radius Fire Ref (1/2) FB-3 Fireball 3375 gp Fireball 30 ft 6d6 20' radius Fire Ref (1/2) SB-1 Shatter 750 gp Shatter 30 ft 2d6 5' radius Sonic Fort (1/2) SB-2 Shatter 1500 gp Shatter 30 ft 4d6 5' radius Sonic Fort (1/2) SB-3 Shatter 2250 gp Shatter 30 ft 6d6 5' radius Sonic Fort (1/2) heres that post I was talking about.
Cifer 05-14-07, 06:10 PM	Construction of the largest, most powerful airship to date began in 994 YK as a joint project between House Lyrandar and House Orien. Originally, she was designed to be a more efficient means of cargo transport. Three years into construction, the Keystone was stolen by House Cannith agents with the assistance of a rogue Wizard out of the Lhazar Principalities. Why would Cannith have to steal it? Massive engineering problems like this one would always be dropped into their laps - they build the lightning rail, they build the regular airships, they build just about everything if it's too big for everyone else. Orien and Lyrandar, on the other hand side, rarely get along well enough to produce something in concert, especially since I don't really see why Lyrandar would want Orien to intrude upon aerial travel. Constructive criticism only please. I've got the feeling our definitions of that one are not quite the same...
lds_soldier 05-14-07, 07:34 PM	I understand what you're getting at, but I still need a plot behind this thing and I'm approaching a deadline...so Cannith doesn't have anything to do with it...maybe Lyrandar started it and Orien stole it...or maybe no one stole it and it was bought and later 'commandeered' ? And thanx Korchek, those really helped.
snakebliskan 05-15-07, 06:33 AM	Think maybe the cannon are magical somehow rather than firing projectiles? They are gnomish, and the Captain abhors the noise involved, but I've seen a lot of controversy over firearms in Eberron, so maybe the gnomes have worked together with the mages to come up with something diabolically original and far too simple to suit the gnomes, resulting in a steam/hydraulic/magically powered electrical discharge of some sort? Nice! As far as your cannon problem goes use the magic turret traps in DMG2 I used them as cannon type weapon systems on my much smaller air ship the operator needs to use UMD to fire it but thats ok use magewrights or rogues to operate them.
Salathiel 05-15-07, 10:39 AM	I understand what you're getting at, but I still need a plot behind this thing and I'm approaching a deadline...so Cannith doesn't have anything to do with it...maybe Lyrandar started it and Orien stole it...or maybe no one stole it and it was bought and later 'commandeered' ? I'd go with this, with one small refinement. Have it originally be a development project by both Cannith and Lyrandar in conjuction with the elemental binders of Zilargo -- Consider it a natural extrapolation of existing airship technology, so naturally the forces behind the original airships would be behind this as well. The problem is that now Lyrander is really cutting into Orien's overland cargo transport business, and Baron Kwanti won't let that stand. (Remember, the head of Hose Orien is CN; he won't have much in the way of moral objections to taking other people's work if it's for his house's benefit.) So once Orien steals it, they spend quite a bit of time and energy figuring out how to reverse engineer the barge so that you don't need a Mark of Storm to fly the thing. They might even go so far as to sabotage the ship against that very thing -- there's no way that the Transportation Guild is going to let the Windwrights get this thing back. However, one well placed traitor on the inside later, and the Emerald Claw has a new playtoy. They can even fly it themselves now, since Orien already figured out how to fix that problem. I like where you're going with the Keystone... I haven't crunched the numbers on the stat side, but the plot you have so far seems good enough to hang a campaign around. -Sal
Cifer 05-15-07, 03:57 PM	(Remember, the head of Hose Orien is CN; he won't have much in the way of moral objections to taking other people's work if it's for his house's benefit.) You really think any of the house leaders do?
Mydaes47 06-01-07, 02:12 AM	Just to let you know I'm not just writing to attack you about this idea, I just think way to much for my own good. It is a pretty slick concep and in my earlier(pre-army) gaming days I thought up stuff like this too. First and foremost I need to point out that your design drawings make the ship 800'x120'. You have the choice of either making it 5' squares with a 60' width or go with the enormous it is now or redraw it. One thing I've found helps me out is think of things in base distances. Your posted stats make the thing's length less than 4x the width. I also noticed that your graphic stuff was rather large, like on deck 5 with the owner's quarters. The chairs are drawn something like 20' wide if a square is 10'. Also on this room, the ship is designed to haul stuff. Built by a company they wouldn't have used that much space just to house the owner. Generally CEO's like kicking it in their mansion, not out babysitting a cargo ship. With no CEO there is really no reason to make a 120'x100' area to house one or maybe two people. Same thing goes for the captain's chamber. Granted it's a really large ship but one person doesn't need that much room. Also having a space that large that's only 10' high isn't really all that structurally sound. Also, this may just be me, but I wouldn't want to be sleeping on top of the powder room. Another thing to add would be a brig and maybe a full armory as opposed to just a weapons locker on a lower level. (Don't put em in the same place in case of an escape) Another thought would be look to 'ships-of-the-line' layouts. Tactically it's better to spread out your weapons, like firing the ballista out of portholes on lower decks rather than bunching em all up on top. Keeps a single mage from nuking all your siege engines with a handful of fireballs. As for crew quarters you should take into account that this is a ship. Most crew on a ship get a hammock and a trunk. You can stack that 2 or even 3 high and they can go anywhere below deck, including right next to some siege engines that those people man. A book to look at that may help you(I figure you already had considering the way you were listing some of the airship's stats) would be Stormwrack. In it the Greatship is 150'x40' with a 40' overall height(20' above, 20' below the water). This is almost a 5x length to width ratio. As for airship qualities, the real reason I happened across your post, I figure the per round speed of the airship in the Eberron book would be 200' or so. I get this from the aforementioned Stormwrack book using the per round x1 wind speed of the Elf Wingship (40') and the long distance travel speed for x1 wind (4mph). The Eberron book says that airships can maintain 20mph which is 5x the Wingship which means 200' a round. (any problems with this bring em up please) Considering the size of this beast you have come up with I'm honestly not sure if the 80' speed needs to be changed. Oh, and does anyone know where i can find stats for just the standard flavor of airship?
korcheck 06-01-07, 01:54 PM	Generally CEO's like kicking it in their mansion, not out babysitting a cargo ship. With no CEO there is really no reason to make a 120'x100' area to house one or maybe two people. Same thing goes for the captain's chamber. Granted it's a really large ship but one person doesn't need that much room. Also having a space that large that's only 10' high isn't really all that structurally sound. Oh, and does anyone know where i can find stats for just the standard flavor of airship? You would think that as a building inspector by trade I would have looked at the drawing better and made the same comment lol. As for your question I think that there are stats in either the players guide to eberron or in the explorers handbook.
Mydaes47 06-02-07, 02:54 AM	I saw the book, it's Adventure's Guide to Eberron. Says in it that airships move at 100' per round. If they can go 20mph, which it also says then think about the following: 20mph=105600fph=1760fpm=176' per round Also the ship I was looking at using was this: http://www.dundjinni.com/forums/forum_posts.asp?TID=1350&PN=1