New art: Female Shifter Druid [Archive] - Wizards Community

New art: Female Shifter Druid [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Pozas
06-11-05, 08:09 AM Hi, y'all!

I just updated my website with three new pieces of artwork. Of special interest is my rendition of a female shifter druid [ http://www.enworld.org/Pozas/Pictures/Illustration/shifter_druid.jpg ]. In order to make this one, I went over Keith Baker's description of shifters from the ECS.

I also posted the covers of the Arcana Evolved edition of the BattleBox [ http://www.enworld.org/Pozas/Pictures/Illustration/titanic_battle.jpg ](from Fiery Dragon Productions) and the cover for Murky Depths & Slimy Shores [ http://www.enworld.org/Pozas/Pictures/Illustration/murky_depths.jpg ], a counter collection tie-in (also from Fiery Dragon) to Monster Geographica: Aquatic (from Expeditious Retreat Press).

Enjoy, and let me know what you think.
hiryuu
06-11-05, 09:46 AM I have to comment....I apologize beforehand.

Her proportions are way off. She has the waist-hip-shoulder ratio of a man, and her legs are a full head too short at least. The color is really good, though.
Pozas
06-11-05, 10:01 AM Thanks for the feedback, but you do realize she's not human, right?

I did her shoulders wide on purpose (and they appear wider due to the shoulder armor). Likewise, her waist is narrower, akin to a more athletic human (gymnasts, for instance, who also tend to have broad shoulders). Her legs are shorter than a human's, which tend to facilitate the shifter tendency to drop on all fours from time to time.

All in all, it helps add a more bestial appearance.
Gunrock
06-11-05, 11:18 AM Thanks for the feedback, but you do realize she's not human, right?

I did her shoulders wide on purpose (and they appear wider due to the shoulder armor). Likewise, her waist is narrower, akin to a more athletic human (gymnasts, for instance, who also tend to have broad shoulders). Her legs are shorter than a human's, which tend to facilitate the shifter tendency to drop on all fours from time to time.

All in all, it helps add a more bestial appearance.
Which is all well and good, but the proportions still look like a man (maybe one of those Japanese manga men) who got some breast implants.
Widen out the hips some and the proportions would better fit. Right now she's got man hips, man waist, and man shoulders; female humanoids generally don't have more than two of those, especially when they have such pronounced secondary characteristics.
hiryuu
06-11-05, 01:39 PM Thanks for the feedback, but you do realize she's not human, right?

All in all, it helps add a more bestial appearance.

Shifters are human. They're much more human than beast. The description goes out of its way to say so. The descriptions are more apt to Disney's Tarzan renditions (albeit much hairier). They get a Dexterity bonus, so they're liable to look much more lithe, tightly wrapped, and long-limbed than stocky.

humans can go down on all fours very easily. In our gaming group we have a fellow who almost exclusively travels on all fours inside. He drops down on his knuckles and swings around the house with an almost disturbing ease. I've started doing it myself (spend too much time around that guy). The man is all limbs; instead of shortening the legs, you should make 'em probably a tad longer, along with the arms.

Look at this guy: http://coloringbookfun.com/tarzan/images/tarzan%20(9).gif

See how they've made him move like an ape even with his long limbs, and they only serve to add to the animalistic nature?
treehouse916
06-11-05, 01:49 PM I really like this art, Pozas. She looks a little bit mannish, but that's fine with me. Not every female character in D&D has to be built like a supermodel.
hiryuu
06-11-05, 02:25 PM Here we go: http://www.nazro.net/badart/shifterdown.jpg

Here's a shifter down on all fours, no shortening of the arms and legs.

Yes, I realize it's bad (it's more of a gesture than anythng else). Yes, I also realize she's a little pudgy, but not every D&D character has to look like a supermodel, you know?
Lurkalot
06-11-05, 03:58 PM Here we go: http://www.nazro.net/badart/shifterdown.jpg

Here's a shifter down on all fours, no shortening of the arms and legs.

Yes, I realize it's bad (it's more of a gesture than anythng else). Yes, I also realize she's a little pudgy, but not every D&D character has to look like a supermodel, you know?

Actually, this one is much better. Despite the fact that the previous one is finished and this is a sketch, this one looks both more animalistic and more feminine. the pose has much more impact as well. I'm serious - the second one is much better in concept. It's very nice.
Pozas
06-12-05, 06:58 PM Which is all well and good, but the proportions still look like a man (maybe one of those Japanese manga men) who got some breast implants.
Widen out the hips some and the proportions would better fit. Right now she's got man hips, man waist, and man shoulders; female humanoids generally don't have more than two of those, especially when they have such pronounced secondary characteristics.

Manga? Where did that come from?

As for the proportions being off, here's the model I used for the body: olympic gold-medalist gymnast Catalina Ponor: Shifter comparing to Ponor (http://www.enworld.org/Pozas/Pictures/Illustration/shifter_ponor.jpg)
Psymnotica
06-12-05, 07:28 PM Ignore those nay-sayers! They wouldn't know true art if it was staring them in the face! :)
<Kidding, kidding, kidding! Don't kill me.>

Pozas,
I was actually thinking your shifter reminded me of a gymnast... perhaps she is a cliffwalker shifter, one who needs a shorter body and more centralized hip/torso configuration for a better sense of balance? Just an in-character explanation.

The only critique I can give it is her lats seem to be flared more like a bodybuilder who is posing, and her right arm (viewers left) seems a little skinny, but that could be explained by her angle to the artistic POV. Other than that, I like it, especially your shading technique, and hope to see more of your Eberron (and Raveloft) stuff in the future.
Rechan
06-12-05, 07:57 PM Here we go: http://www.nazro.net/badart/shifterdown.jpg

Here's a shifter down on all fours, no shortening of the arms and legs.

Yes, I realize it's bad (it's more of a gesture than anythng else). Yes, I also realize she's a little pudgy, but not every D&D character has to look like a supermodel, you know?

I really like that picture. It's got a dangerousness about it and very attractive. Also far more animalistic but not savage to it; not knuckle dragging, but graceful predator look to it.
KP91
06-12-05, 07:59 PM Manga? Where did that come from?

As for the proportions being off, here's the model I used for the body: olympic gold-medalist gymnast Catalina Ponor: Shifter comparing to Ponor (http://www.enworld.org/Pozas/Pictures/Illustration/shifter_ponor.jpg)
Yes but she's both turned more than your shifter and leaning forward more. So your lines really arn't matching up.
BullyBoy
06-13-05, 07:11 AM Here we go: http://www.nazro.net/badart/shifterdown.jpg

Is this link down? I get nothing.
Vasarius
06-13-05, 08:17 AM Same here.

I like the colouring, but it looks out of proportion to me. Still, Well done, it's better than anything I could ever produce :)
hiryuu
06-13-05, 10:44 AM Yeah, the coloring is great. Can't stress that enough.

....I'm gonna hazard a guess and say the server is down again. It's housed in a friend's closet, and has a tendency to go out at random intervals.
Sithis
06-13-05, 11:14 AM Yes but she's both turned more than your shifter and leaning forward more. So your lines really arn't matching up.
Being turned doesn't matter and while she is arching her back and thus should be taller, the shifter has a wide stance and also should be taller. If anything the shifter probably has longer legs than the gymnast.
Galen_Michael
06-13-05, 06:38 PM I'd just like to see more shifter female artwork in general.

Both pieces look good to me. I appreciate any and all fan art you guys are willing to take the time to produce!

Galen
Joni-san
06-13-05, 06:54 PM I liked the piece :). I 'dunno if the proportions are right (and I really 'dunn care either) but I like the style and the details in the piece :cool:
hiryuu
06-13-05, 08:19 PM Being turned doesn't matter and while she is arching her back and thus should be taller, the shifter has a wide stance and also should be taller. If anything the shifter probably has longer legs than the gymnast.

The fact that her body is in a completely different position should matter. Also, anyone in a wide stance will be shorter, not taller (not only that, a stance wider than your shoulders is uncomfortable, especially with how casually that shifter's shoulders are sloping; she looks like she's standing normally, but her legs look like she's trying to either tear her calves or jump at something, and neither seem viable due to her facial expression and upper body language).

But let's look at them.

Here's our shifter. (http://www.nazro.net/stuff/legs.jpg) Note how the legs and shoulders are rather far off for even an average frame.

Here's our gymnast. (http://www.nazro.net/stuff/gym.jpg) Who, thanks to the position her body is in, appears to have shorter legs. I have, truth be told, done some digging online and found more pictures of this particular gymnast and noted she has uncharacteristically short legs for gymnasts at large in her body class, but her proportions are largely within adult norms.
Sithis
06-13-05, 08:45 PM The fact that her body is in a completely different position should matter.
How on earth is turning sideways going to have any effect on her vertical proportions? :confused:

Also, anyone in a wide stance will be shorter, not taller...
Exactly. Since the shifter is equal height to the gymnast while in a very wide stance, she'll be even taller when standing normally. Furthermore, since her hips are at the same position in the wide stance compared to the gymnast's straight stance (as far as her legs go), she probably has longer legs too.

Here's our gymnast. (http://www.nazro.net/stuff/gym.jpg)
Who, thanks to the position her body is in, appears to have shorter legs.
She's standing with her legs perfectly staight. How exactly does that make them appear shorter?
hiryuu
06-13-05, 09:00 PM How on earth is turning sideways going to have any effect on her vertical proportions? :confused:

It's not the sideways turn that's important, it's the extremely arched back and raised head.

Exactly. Since the shifter is equal height to the gymnast while in a very wide stance, she'll be even taller when standing normally. Furthermore, since her hips are at the same position in the wide stance compared to the gymnast's straight stance (as far as her legs go), she probably has longer legs too.

But she's not equal height or even equal proportion. The head and back aren't int he same stretched and popped position. At the end of their routine, a gymnast's spine is actually longer due to the stretching and popping of the spine; this is why slipped disks are common in gymnasts: when the spine settles back into place, it doesn't always go back the right way.

She's standing with her legs perfectly staight. How exactly does that make them appear shorter?

LOOK AT THE WAY HER BACK AND NECK ARE STRETCHED.
The Livewire
06-13-05, 09:07 PM Ok, put me in the camp of liking it. I don't know why, I just do.
Gunrock
06-13-05, 09:42 PM Manga? Where did that come from?
Many Manga men are very pretty, in a feminine way. This character is obviously female (even if her chest were flat) in the face but as I said, her hips / shoulders / waist are in masculine proportions. The hips / waist ratio is the one I'm complaining about (because I like to complain). I said nothing about the height because I think that particular proportion is okay (she has realatively short legs but so do a lot of other people). However, the narowness of her hips combined with the broadness of her shoulders makes her look like a (pretty) man with a boob job.
If you had a front view of your model then you'd more easily see what I'm talking about.

Your skills are evident (solid linework and backgrounds, and I'm especially fond of the coloring), I just feel that the shoulder / waist / hip ratio is off and that this would be fixed by widening her hips.
Gunrock
06-13-05, 09:44 PM Here we go: http://www.nazro.net/badart/shifterdown.jpg

Here's a shifter down on all fours, no shortening of the arms and legs.

Yes, I realize it's bad (it's more of a gesture than anythng else). Yes, I also realize she's a little pudgy, but not every D&D character has to look like a supermodel, you know?
As far as sketches go, this is really good. The proportions are good and that dynamic stance is something I've been struggling to achieve for over a decade. Well done and I hope you'll turn it into a finished work some day. Maybe you and Pozas can team up to get it inked and in full color because that would be awesome.
Edymnion
06-13-05, 10:05 PM Hiryuu should have shown off his female shifter ranger, the one with the cute sideburns...
Beleriphon
06-14-05, 01:49 AM I think the one complaint that I have about Pozas' shifter is the leg proportions. The knee to ankle proportion seems too short for the stance that she has. I've always found that fiddling with proportions makes character art look odd unless its done for specific purposes (Mr. Incredible in The Incredibles for example) to portary certain ideas about a character visually.

Distinctly non-human proportions do more than anything else to differentiate a creature from humans. For example except for the head a mind flayer has traditional human body proportions and style, this is to keep a certain sense of intelligence about them. If we look at orcs they are protrayed with overly long arms, this lends them a simian appearance, which to us indicates a certain lack of civilization and barbarism.

Another good example of the proportions each race should have is intro in the PHB. It has the line ups, which if you pay attention actually has all of the races with near identical body proportions. Only dwarves with the stocky build don't really match the proportions since they are much more of a square shaped body, as opposed to the humans rectangular proportions.
Fordel
06-14-05, 02:09 AM http://www.nazro.net/badart/shifterdown.jpg this is what I think of when I think shifter. Agile and Feral. Ready to Pounce.

http://www.enworld.org/Pozas/Pictures/Illustration/shifter_druid.jpg has something "wrong" with it. The shoulders seem overly wide or she lacks hips, and she has short legs it seems. While certainly feral, she doesn't seem all that agile. Maybe it's the pose?
bassjon
06-14-05, 02:10 AM Personally I think Pozas picture is very good.
Inspired me to attempt my own version - which can be found here.
Its a first attempt so be gentle. She could probably do with being a little less pristine :-)
Anyway you can find her here

http://uk.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/bassjon63/detail?.dir=263a&.dnm=f9f9.jpg&.src=ph

For some reason you have to copy and paste the link to make it work

Comments welcome :confused:
Setherial
06-14-05, 02:58 AM I like the shifter druid, nice work. However I do suggest you try painting using hard edged brushes in photoshop instead of soft edged ones. You'll see that it's easier to get good results.
Fordel
06-14-05, 04:48 AM http://uk.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/bassjon63/detail?.dir=263a&.dnm=f9f9.jpg&.src=ph this one needs more hair.
bassjon
06-14-05, 05:08 AM I presume you mean body hair Fordel ? Will work on that.
Sithis
06-14-05, 02:33 PM Being turned doesn't matter...The fact that her body is in a completely different position should matter. It's not the sideways turn that's important, it's the extremely arched back and raised head.And I only ever said the sideways turn was irrelevant...

But she's not equal height or even equal proportion. The head and back aren't int he same stretched and popped position. At the end of their routine, a gymnast's spine is actually longer due to the stretching and popping of the spine; this is why slipped disks are common in gymnasts: when the spine settles back into place, it doesn't always go back the right way.So your simple answer is that gymnasts are out of proportion and thus poor models. Even so, while her spine may supposedly be meaningfully longer (people are taller when they wake up, it does mean they start the day out of proportion), she's also simultaneously severely arching her back, which makes her overall dimensions shorter.

Here's our gymnast. (http://www.nazro.net/stuff/gym.jpg)
Who, thanks to the position her body is in, appears to have shorter legs.She's standing with her legs perfectly staight. How exactly does that make them appear shorter?LOOK AT THE WAY HER BACK AND NECK ARE STRETCHED.Which has nothing whatsoever to do with her legs... Are you instead trying to say that her torso is a bad model?

And capitalizing whole sentences doesn't actually make your point better or stronger, just more obnoxious.
Edymnion
06-14-05, 02:50 PM Something more human looking is the way to go, IMO.
Something like Hiryuu's shifter ranger (since he hasn't posted it up himself, I'll do it :P):
http://www.nazro.net/sketchbook/0059.jpg
Sithis
06-14-05, 03:07 PM Something more human looking is the way to go, IMO.
In face or proportions? The official art has generally portrayed very bestial shifters and while Hiryuu's shifter is good art, it's also got manga proportions.
Edymnion
06-14-05, 03:29 PM I'm an anime fan, what can I say.
I prefer stylized human forms over strict literal interpretations.
Tek
06-14-05, 05:39 PM I think your Valenar Elf and Warforged are personally just AWESOME, Pozas. Keep on drawing man, you color really really well.
hiryuu
06-15-05, 08:02 PM In face or proportions? The official art has generally portrayed very bestial shifters and while Hiryuu's shifter is good art, it's also got manga proportions.

You are correct sir; that particular shifter has ginormous feet and rather thick legs. It's out of proportion because I meant for it to be so. That's the style I was going for.

Disturbingly enough, while she has a mongoloid body type, you'll note her proportions are correct for that body type.

On a side note, arching your back has the side effect of making you look taller. It has to do with the way the spine piles on itself. So not only is her spine stretched from her routine, she's artificially increasing her height and lifting her head.
Liane the Wayfarer
06-15-05, 09:06 PM I agree with Tek, keep up the good work, Claudio! I can't wait to see more Eberron stuff from you!

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Pozas 06-11-05, 08:09 AM	Hi, y'all! I just updated my website with three new pieces of artwork. Of special interest is my rendition of a female shifter druid [ http://www.enworld.org/Pozas/Pictures/Illustration/shifter_druid.jpg ]. In order to make this one, I went over Keith Baker's description of shifters from the ECS. I also posted the covers of the Arcana Evolved edition of the BattleBox [ http://www.enworld.org/Pozas/Pictures/Illustration/titanic_battle.jpg ](from Fiery Dragon Productions) and the cover for Murky Depths & Slimy Shores [ http://www.enworld.org/Pozas/Pictures/Illustration/murky_depths.jpg ], a counter collection tie-in (also from Fiery Dragon) to Monster Geographica: Aquatic (from Expeditious Retreat Press). Enjoy, and let me know what you think.
hiryuu 06-11-05, 09:46 AM	I have to comment....I apologize beforehand. Her proportions are way off. She has the waist-hip-shoulder ratio of a man, and her legs are a full head too short at least. The color is really good, though.
Pozas 06-11-05, 10:01 AM	Thanks for the feedback, but you do realize she's not human, right? I did her shoulders wide on purpose (and they appear wider due to the shoulder armor). Likewise, her waist is narrower, akin to a more athletic human (gymnasts, for instance, who also tend to have broad shoulders). Her legs are shorter than a human's, which tend to facilitate the shifter tendency to drop on all fours from time to time. All in all, it helps add a more bestial appearance.
Gunrock 06-11-05, 11:18 AM	Thanks for the feedback, but you do realize she's not human, right? I did her shoulders wide on purpose (and they appear wider due to the shoulder armor). Likewise, her waist is narrower, akin to a more athletic human (gymnasts, for instance, who also tend to have broad shoulders). Her legs are shorter than a human's, which tend to facilitate the shifter tendency to drop on all fours from time to time. All in all, it helps add a more bestial appearance. Which is all well and good, but the proportions still look like a man (maybe one of those Japanese manga men) who got some breast implants. Widen out the hips some and the proportions would better fit. Right now she's got man hips, man waist, and man shoulders; female humanoids generally don't have more than two of those, especially when they have such pronounced secondary characteristics.
hiryuu 06-11-05, 01:39 PM	Thanks for the feedback, but you do realize she's not human, right? All in all, it helps add a more bestial appearance. Shifters are human. They're much more human than beast. The description goes out of its way to say so. The descriptions are more apt to Disney's Tarzan renditions (albeit much hairier). They get a Dexterity bonus, so they're liable to look much more lithe, tightly wrapped, and long-limbed than stocky. humans can go down on all fours very easily. In our gaming group we have a fellow who almost exclusively travels on all fours inside. He drops down on his knuckles and swings around the house with an almost disturbing ease. I've started doing it myself (spend too much time around that guy). The man is all limbs; instead of shortening the legs, you should make 'em probably a tad longer, along with the arms. Look at this guy: http://coloringbookfun.com/tarzan/images/tarzan%20(9).gif See how they've made him move like an ape even with his long limbs, and they only serve to add to the animalistic nature?
treehouse916 06-11-05, 01:49 PM	I really like this art, Pozas. She looks a little bit mannish, but that's fine with me. Not every female character in D&D has to be built like a supermodel.
hiryuu 06-11-05, 02:25 PM	Here we go: http://www.nazro.net/badart/shifterdown.jpg Here's a shifter down on all fours, no shortening of the arms and legs. Yes, I realize it's bad (it's more of a gesture than anythng else). Yes, I also realize she's a little pudgy, but not every D&D character has to look like a supermodel, you know?
Lurkalot 06-11-05, 03:58 PM	Here we go: http://www.nazro.net/badart/shifterdown.jpg Here's a shifter down on all fours, no shortening of the arms and legs. Yes, I realize it's bad (it's more of a gesture than anythng else). Yes, I also realize she's a little pudgy, but not every D&D character has to look like a supermodel, you know? Actually, this one is much better. Despite the fact that the previous one is finished and this is a sketch, this one looks both more animalistic and more feminine. the pose has much more impact as well. I'm serious - the second one is much better in concept. It's very nice.
Pozas 06-12-05, 06:58 PM	Which is all well and good, but the proportions still look like a man (maybe one of those Japanese manga men) who got some breast implants. Widen out the hips some and the proportions would better fit. Right now she's got man hips, man waist, and man shoulders; female humanoids generally don't have more than two of those, especially when they have such pronounced secondary characteristics. Manga? Where did that come from? As for the proportions being off, here's the model I used for the body: olympic gold-medalist gymnast Catalina Ponor: Shifter comparing to Ponor (http://www.enworld.org/Pozas/Pictures/Illustration/shifter_ponor.jpg)
Psymnotica 06-12-05, 07:28 PM	Ignore those nay-sayers! They wouldn't know true art if it was staring them in the face! :) <Kidding, kidding, kidding! Don't kill me.> Pozas, I was actually thinking your shifter reminded me of a gymnast... perhaps she is a cliffwalker shifter, one who needs a shorter body and more centralized hip/torso configuration for a better sense of balance? Just an in-character explanation. The only critique I can give it is her lats seem to be flared more like a bodybuilder who is posing, and her right arm (viewers left) seems a little skinny, but that could be explained by her angle to the artistic POV. Other than that, I like it, especially your shading technique, and hope to see more of your Eberron (and Raveloft) stuff in the future.
Rechan 06-12-05, 07:57 PM	Here we go: http://www.nazro.net/badart/shifterdown.jpg Here's a shifter down on all fours, no shortening of the arms and legs. Yes, I realize it's bad (it's more of a gesture than anythng else). Yes, I also realize she's a little pudgy, but not every D&D character has to look like a supermodel, you know? I really like that picture. It's got a dangerousness about it and very attractive. Also far more animalistic but not savage to it; not knuckle dragging, but graceful predator look to it.
KP91 06-12-05, 07:59 PM	Manga? Where did that come from? As for the proportions being off, here's the model I used for the body: olympic gold-medalist gymnast Catalina Ponor: Shifter comparing to Ponor (http://www.enworld.org/Pozas/Pictures/Illustration/shifter_ponor.jpg) Yes but she's both turned more than your shifter and leaning forward more. So your lines really arn't matching up.
BullyBoy 06-13-05, 07:11 AM	Here we go: http://www.nazro.net/badart/shifterdown.jpg Is this link down? I get nothing.
Vasarius 06-13-05, 08:17 AM	Same here. I like the colouring, but it looks out of proportion to me. Still, Well done, it's better than anything I could ever produce :)
hiryuu 06-13-05, 10:44 AM	Yeah, the coloring is great. Can't stress that enough. ....I'm gonna hazard a guess and say the server is down again. It's housed in a friend's closet, and has a tendency to go out at random intervals.
Sithis 06-13-05, 11:14 AM	Yes but she's both turned more than your shifter and leaning forward more. So your lines really arn't matching up. Being turned doesn't matter and while she is arching her back and thus should be taller, the shifter has a wide stance and also should be taller. If anything the shifter probably has longer legs than the gymnast.
Galen_Michael 06-13-05, 06:38 PM	I'd just like to see more shifter female artwork in general. Both pieces look good to me. I appreciate any and all fan art you guys are willing to take the time to produce! Galen
Joni-san 06-13-05, 06:54 PM	I liked the piece :). I 'dunno if the proportions are right (and I really 'dunn care either) but I like the style and the details in the piece :cool:
hiryuu 06-13-05, 08:19 PM	Being turned doesn't matter and while she is arching her back and thus should be taller, the shifter has a wide stance and also should be taller. If anything the shifter probably has longer legs than the gymnast. The fact that her body is in a completely different position should matter. Also, anyone in a wide stance will be shorter, not taller (not only that, a stance wider than your shoulders is uncomfortable, especially with how casually that shifter's shoulders are sloping; she looks like she's standing normally, but her legs look like she's trying to either tear her calves or jump at something, and neither seem viable due to her facial expression and upper body language). But let's look at them. Here's our shifter. (http://www.nazro.net/stuff/legs.jpg) Note how the legs and shoulders are rather far off for even an average frame. Here's our gymnast. (http://www.nazro.net/stuff/gym.jpg) Who, thanks to the position her body is in, appears to have shorter legs. I have, truth be told, done some digging online and found more pictures of this particular gymnast and noted she has uncharacteristically short legs for gymnasts at large in her body class, but her proportions are largely within adult norms.
Sithis 06-13-05, 08:45 PM	The fact that her body is in a completely different position should matter. How on earth is turning sideways going to have any effect on her vertical proportions? :confused: Also, anyone in a wide stance will be shorter, not taller... Exactly. Since the shifter is equal height to the gymnast while in a very wide stance, she'll be even taller when standing normally. Furthermore, since her hips are at the same position in the wide stance compared to the gymnast's straight stance (as far as her legs go), she probably has longer legs too. Here's our gymnast. (http://www.nazro.net/stuff/gym.jpg) Who, thanks to the position her body is in, appears to have shorter legs. She's standing with her legs perfectly staight. How exactly does that make them appear shorter?
hiryuu 06-13-05, 09:00 PM	How on earth is turning sideways going to have any effect on her vertical proportions? :confused: It's not the sideways turn that's important, it's the extremely arched back and raised head. Exactly. Since the shifter is equal height to the gymnast while in a very wide stance, she'll be even taller when standing normally. Furthermore, since her hips are at the same position in the wide stance compared to the gymnast's straight stance (as far as her legs go), she probably has longer legs too. But she's not equal height or even equal proportion. The head and back aren't int he same stretched and popped position. At the end of their routine, a gymnast's spine is actually longer due to the stretching and popping of the spine; this is why slipped disks are common in gymnasts: when the spine settles back into place, it doesn't always go back the right way. She's standing with her legs perfectly staight. How exactly does that make them appear shorter? LOOK AT THE WAY HER BACK AND NECK ARE STRETCHED.
The Livewire 06-13-05, 09:07 PM	Ok, put me in the camp of liking it. I don't know why, I just do.
Gunrock 06-13-05, 09:42 PM	Manga? Where did that come from? Many Manga men are very pretty, in a feminine way. This character is obviously female (even if her chest were flat) in the face but as I said, her hips / shoulders / waist are in masculine proportions. The hips / waist ratio is the one I'm complaining about (because I like to complain). I said nothing about the height because I think that particular proportion is okay (she has realatively short legs but so do a lot of other people). However, the narowness of her hips combined with the broadness of her shoulders makes her look like a (pretty) man with a boob job. If you had a front view of your model then you'd more easily see what I'm talking about. Your skills are evident (solid linework and backgrounds, and I'm especially fond of the coloring), I just feel that the shoulder / waist / hip ratio is off and that this would be fixed by widening her hips.
Gunrock 06-13-05, 09:44 PM	Here we go: http://www.nazro.net/badart/shifterdown.jpg Here's a shifter down on all fours, no shortening of the arms and legs. Yes, I realize it's bad (it's more of a gesture than anythng else). Yes, I also realize she's a little pudgy, but not every D&D character has to look like a supermodel, you know? As far as sketches go, this is really good. The proportions are good and that dynamic stance is something I've been struggling to achieve for over a decade. Well done and I hope you'll turn it into a finished work some day. Maybe you and Pozas can team up to get it inked and in full color because that would be awesome.
Edymnion 06-13-05, 10:05 PM	Hiryuu should have shown off his female shifter ranger, the one with the cute sideburns...
Beleriphon 06-14-05, 01:49 AM	I think the one complaint that I have about Pozas' shifter is the leg proportions. The knee to ankle proportion seems too short for the stance that she has. I've always found that fiddling with proportions makes character art look odd unless its done for specific purposes (Mr. Incredible in The Incredibles for example) to portary certain ideas about a character visually. Distinctly non-human proportions do more than anything else to differentiate a creature from humans. For example except for the head a mind flayer has traditional human body proportions and style, this is to keep a certain sense of intelligence about them. If we look at orcs they are protrayed with overly long arms, this lends them a simian appearance, which to us indicates a certain lack of civilization and barbarism. Another good example of the proportions each race should have is intro in the PHB. It has the line ups, which if you pay attention actually has all of the races with near identical body proportions. Only dwarves with the stocky build don't really match the proportions since they are much more of a square shaped body, as opposed to the humans rectangular proportions.
Fordel 06-14-05, 02:09 AM	http://www.nazro.net/badart/shifterdown.jpg this is what I think of when I think shifter. Agile and Feral. Ready to Pounce. http://www.enworld.org/Pozas/Pictures/Illustration/shifter_druid.jpg has something "wrong" with it. The shoulders seem overly wide or she lacks hips, and she has short legs it seems. While certainly feral, she doesn't seem all that agile. Maybe it's the pose?
bassjon 06-14-05, 02:10 AM	Personally I think Pozas picture is very good. Inspired me to attempt my own version - which can be found here. Its a first attempt so be gentle. She could probably do with being a little less pristine :-) Anyway you can find her here http://uk.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/bassjon63/detail?.dir=263a&.dnm=f9f9.jpg&.src=ph For some reason you have to copy and paste the link to make it work Comments welcome :confused:
Setherial 06-14-05, 02:58 AM	I like the shifter druid, nice work. However I do suggest you try painting using hard edged brushes in photoshop instead of soft edged ones. You'll see that it's easier to get good results.
Fordel 06-14-05, 04:48 AM	http://uk.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/bassjon63/detail?.dir=263a&.dnm=f9f9.jpg&.src=ph this one needs more hair.
bassjon 06-14-05, 05:08 AM	I presume you mean body hair Fordel ? Will work on that.
Sithis 06-14-05, 02:33 PM	Being turned doesn't matter...The fact that her body is in a completely different position should matter. It's not the sideways turn that's important, it's the extremely arched back and raised head.And I only ever said the sideways turn was irrelevant... But she's not equal height or even equal proportion. The head and back aren't int he same stretched and popped position. At the end of their routine, a gymnast's spine is actually longer due to the stretching and popping of the spine; this is why slipped disks are common in gymnasts: when the spine settles back into place, it doesn't always go back the right way.So your simple answer is that gymnasts are out of proportion and thus poor models. Even so, while her spine may supposedly be meaningfully longer (people are taller when they wake up, it does mean they start the day out of proportion), she's also simultaneously severely arching her back, which makes her overall dimensions shorter. Here's our gymnast. (http://www.nazro.net/stuff/gym.jpg) Who, thanks to the position her body is in, appears to have shorter legs.She's standing with her legs perfectly staight. How exactly does that make them appear shorter?LOOK AT THE WAY HER BACK AND NECK ARE STRETCHED.Which has nothing whatsoever to do with her legs... Are you instead trying to say that her torso is a bad model? And capitalizing whole sentences doesn't actually make your point better or stronger, just more obnoxious.
Edymnion 06-14-05, 02:50 PM	Something more human looking is the way to go, IMO. Something like Hiryuu's shifter ranger (since he hasn't posted it up himself, I'll do it :P): http://www.nazro.net/sketchbook/0059.jpg
Sithis 06-14-05, 03:07 PM	Something more human looking is the way to go, IMO. In face or proportions? The official art has generally portrayed very bestial shifters and while Hiryuu's shifter is good art, it's also got manga proportions.
Edymnion 06-14-05, 03:29 PM	I'm an anime fan, what can I say. I prefer stylized human forms over strict literal interpretations.
Tek 06-14-05, 05:39 PM	I think your Valenar Elf and Warforged are personally just AWESOME, Pozas. Keep on drawing man, you color really really well.
hiryuu 06-15-05, 08:02 PM	In face or proportions? The official art has generally portrayed very bestial shifters and while Hiryuu's shifter is good art, it's also got manga proportions. You are correct sir; that particular shifter has ginormous feet and rather thick legs. It's out of proportion because I meant for it to be so. That's the style I was going for. Disturbingly enough, while she has a mongoloid body type, you'll note her proportions are correct for that body type. On a side note, arching your back has the side effect of making you look taller. It has to do with the way the spine piles on itself. So not only is her spine stretched from her routine, she's artificially increasing her height and lifting her head.
Liane the Wayfarer 06-15-05, 09:06 PM	I agree with Tek, keep up the good work, Claudio! I can't wait to see more Eberron stuff from you!