Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Forged_DM 09-27-04, 10:44 PM	Ok this is my first post to this board. Some of you have met my wife. (Forged_Mistress) Ok the idea is that the Lord of the blades is the evil side. The party will be forming a Warforged group ( They like to be called the Forged. They are made for more than just War) led by a Forged Artificer named Arti. Arti Has sided with the humans of house Cannith. This lets Arti take a side against the Lord of the Blades and have some backing for now. Reason for this is that if the Lord of the Blades gets to powerful he will start another war that all the other races may ally to destroy the warforged. Now Arti is secretly making more warforged (Forged). Arti is building his power base and intends to break away from all the races and build his own city and life for his race. To truly be free for once. Arti wants his own forge and has a plan for this all. This is the basis for my campaign. The party will be brand new Forged. I will run them through the beginning adventure and such and then the moduals... Then the dungeon mag # 115 for fun. I would like to know what you DMs think about all this as a setup?
Darkest90 09-27-04, 11:04 PM	That is pretty cool, although Arti has the same goals as the Lord of Blades. I can see them teaming up once or twice to defeat a common threat, or something. It would be interesting to go through all the campaign hooks and adventure ideas addressed by so many and looking at how they could be related to the Forged directly. It would also be interesting to have your party directly integrated into the 'new' history of Eberron, making their own nation and such. I would, however, increase the number of Warforged in Khorvaire by at least 300%. You have more to work with than just a handful of metal warriors. (On the other hand, this gives me a an interesting idea by siding with the Lord of Blades as a beneficial faction. Surviving in the Mournlands, creating a new nation, rallying the warforged underneath one banner. I think I may actually try that with a new party I am having... interesting, I hope they'll accept playing in Eberron.)
Saurenda 09-27-04, 11:15 PM	How and Where is Arti making these warforged? Did he gain control of Merrix d'Cannith's creation forge? It's a neat idea but he is in violation of Thronehold's accords. The second the law finds this out, and chances are with active members like Arti's they will sooner or later they will shut him down and dismantle his forge and him for breakign the peace accords. Have you accouted for this? Not to rain on your parade or anything it sounds liek a great idea. Just not legal. Have you thought about a team of Ashbound druids and rangers who wish not only the Lord of Blades dead, but the Forged as well? Have you given though to how Arti's reputation will be effected on other warforged? Perhaps they will not all like him or the lord of blades? Eberron isn't that clear that they would be the only two choices. Can Arti have goals other than this grand undertaking or will it consume him?
Forged_DM 09-28-04, 12:01 AM	That is pretty cool, although Arti has the same goals as the Lord of Blades. I can see them teaming up once or twice to defeat a common threat, or something. Arti is against The Lord of the Blades. He feels that The Lord of The Blades will cause a war that will lead to all warforged being destroyed.
Forged_DM 09-28-04, 12:07 AM	How and Where is Arti making these warforged? Did he gain control of Merrix d'Cannith's creation forge? Cannith is very quietly helping Arti. The Lord of the Blades is gaining ground and sooner or later he will gain enouph strength to strike. They are not making many right now as it needs to be hush hush. Thus the party being formed. As far as the treaty. What others do nto know will not hurt them. Agrements are briken all the time when the need is great enouph.
Forged_DM 09-28-04, 12:16 AM	Have you thought about a team of Ashbound druids and rangers who wish not only the Lord of Blades dead, but the Forged as well? This is one of the main reasons that Arti want a place for the Forged. Its a prime example of a race that is given freedom, but are not free. Dungeon Mag # 115 for that adventure as an example. What more can cause a Nation to be built or to fall. Freedom and the idea of freedom to Arti is worth more than anything else. To be legaly free, but still treated as a second rate individual is kin to being a slave to him. They are called the warforges by the other races. Arti knows that they are more usefull than just for war. He knows that they will be able to do much more, b ut not if it left up to the other races or the Lord of the Blades. The Forged must decided their future and soon before it vanishes and they are not but scap with but a footnote in history.
Doctor X 09-28-04, 01:01 AM	What I will time below is all just suggestion... After all, you're the DM, so you can do what you please, so don't worry too much about what I think. I actually like your concept-- it's better than most things I could ever come up with. But I just think I should put in my 2 cents, since you asked for it. House Cannith isn't really likely to help with something so big... especially if the person requesting the help is himself a warforged. They're facing enough conflict as it is within their own ranks, so risking the rekindling of the Last War seems like something they'd want to avoid. Though... I could see some of the more unscrupulous family members wanting to restart the war, so they could resume produciton of weapons and armies. There's quite a bit of money in that. But actual creation forges are in short supply... Only two are still operational, as far as I understand it-- Merrix d'Cannith's, and the Lord of Blades'. Aside from these, I think you'd have a very hard time finding any that your Artificer could use, and niether of these guys seem like they'd allow anybody to just come in and do as he pleases. Not to mention explaining how he could even operate it at all if he did find one. He'd need access to scemas and a huge supply of money for materials. He'd also need to be pretty high-level, and an amount of time for experience that would likely go beyond his own age-- You said you wanted him to be new, right? Unless he was specifically MADE by someone to do what he does, he'd need to have been around for a long time just so he could learn the intricacies of what is essentially playing god. It's all up to you in the end, though... you are the DM. But don't expect future Eberron products to agree with some of the stuff you're letting your party do. If you want to deviate from the core stuff, do so. But if you don't, this kind of stuff can get your party into some deep, grade A... well, you know what I mean, in more ways than one.
Neofish 09-28-04, 01:46 AM	I would keep it along the lines of just having Arti persuade the current warforged to join him in a new kingdom. Keep him along the lines of a charsimatic hero and ambitious leader of his peoples, not a godling with the power of the creation forges at his disposal.
ThanisKartaleon 09-28-04, 03:22 AM	Ok the idea is that the Lord of the blades is the evil side... ...led by a Forged Artificer named Arti. Arti Has sided with the humans of house Cannith. This lets Arti take a side against the Lord of the Blades and have some backing for now. Reason for this is that if the Lord of the Blades gets to powerful he will start another war that all the other races may ally to destroy the warforged. ...Now Arti is secretly making more warforged (Forged). Arti is building his power base and intends to break away from all the races and build his own city and life for his race. To truly be free for once. Arti wants his own forge and has a plan for this all. Well, the Lord of Blades is definitely built to be a villain, but it still might be interesting if he helped them at some point. Perhaps this Arti, being built to control a Creation Forge, is just what the LoB needs to get his forge working properly (as it is right now his 'forged are coming out defected or slowly) So maybe the LoB pops in once or twice and actually saves Arti, for the purpose of attempting to get him to join his side. Why would Cannith side with Arti? Note that one of the current leaders of Cannith, Merrix, is actually evil. Meaning self-centered, really. How would more free 'forged help him? If I read the ECS right, he's illegally creating more 'forged in the bowels of Sharn and *selling* them to the highest bidder. Of course, there are currently 3 factions to House Cannith. So that could open up some interesting possibilities itself. Merrix would not (I think) want the 'forged to gain more freedom than they already have, but what about the other leaders? House feuds can be really good nior stuff. Who's your friend today? And in true pulpy fashion, what if in the end, Cannith together has just been playing Arti to get him to do their true bidding? Putting secret changes into the 'forged schema which allows for Cannith to *click* control all the 'forged created by Arti. The end of that campaign could be a race to prevent Merrix from pulling the switch that would end the PC's independence. Why does Arti want to create more 'forged, and how is *his* plan different from the LoB's plan? And where would they live? There aren't too many undiscovered places on Khorvaire, so if they tried to live on Khorvaire they would be displacing another people (which would lead to the exact war Arti apparently hopes to avoid. Now, as they are 'forged, they do have more options than others. For one, they don't need to breath. So he could start his own country underwater. But I wouldn't suggest out in the ocean, 'cause 'forged would still be crushed by depth pressure. But maybe in one of the giant lakes around Khorvaire, like near Thronehold. Perhaps Arti wants to set up camp on Xen'drik, seeing as how it's apparently an ancestral home of the 'forged from the Age of Giants. Well, that's just my 2¢. Hammer these dings out and you may just have a masterwork campaign. ;)
Forged_DM 09-28-04, 08:13 AM	Well, the Lord of Blades is definitely built to be a villain. Why would Cannith side with Arti? . Why does Arti want to create more 'forged, and how is *his* plan different from the LoB's plan? Read my post above about how Arti feels about LoB abd the cause and effect he belives. Some in Cannith feel that there is going to be another war. LoB is gaining power and could make a strike in the not so distant future against the other races. Arti is promising to help stand against that. After all why should more blood be spilt by the fleshy races. This is the fine line that Arti is walking to forge his empire. Arti is the oposite of LoB. Arti wants true freedom for the Forged and not a dictatorship where one speeking out against somethign is killed. I have plan for Xen'Drik as the base of operation later. After all there are Forged artifact to be found. There are jungles there to hide in and form a new empire etc. Arti long term goal is to understand how to build a Forge and base a city around it. They way the Forged race has a say in themselves.
Forged_DM 09-28-04, 08:15 AM	I would keep it along the lines of just having Arti persuade the current warforged to join him in a new kingdom. Keep him along the lines of a charsimatic hero and ambitious leader of his peoples, not a godling with the power of the creation forges at his disposal. This is also something that will be happening. Nothing like trying to free some forged slaves etc. Also Arti will be looking for the Forged that want to side against LoB.
Forged_DM 09-28-04, 08:22 AM	House Cannith isn't really likely to help with something so big... especially if the person requesting the help is himself a warforged. But actual creation forges are in short supply... Only two are still operational, as far as I understand it-- Merrix d'Cannith's, and the Lord of Blades'. You said you wanted him to be new, right? It's all up to you in the end, though... you are the DM. But don't expect future Eberron products to agree with some of the stuff you're letting your party do. If you want to deviate from the core stuff, do so. But if you don't, this kind of stuff can get your party into some deep, grade A... well, you know what I mean, in more ways than one. Arti is not new. The PC's will be new forged. Merrix d'Cannith's forge is makig some warforged from my understanding. I belive they are selling them quietly (page 22). So Arti has made some friend in the right places. So far I do not see a conflict of what I am doing and the story by Kieth so far. There is lots of room for those that want power, freedom and dark sinister plots.
Radiating Gnome 09-28-04, 11:30 AM	A party that consists of all warforged sounds a bit . . . homogenous. Would you at least be using some of the new warforged varieties in the MM3?
Saurenda 09-28-04, 01:18 PM	I'd make Merrix a Villian to be honest. Though he wants to secretly continue making warforged as his grandfather had experimented, he isn't a willing alli to your Arti. If anything Merrix will want to use Arti to his own ends, and Merrix more than likely has lose ties with the LoB since Merrix doesn't care what he does to help his grandfather's creations. Merrix is willing to break a contental law to do this, no one else in house cannith could. Arti somehow is producing warforged, and Cannith is helping him which means that Cannith stands grounds for being disenfranchized since they did not follow through on thier agreement to dismantle all the creation forges. At least with Merrix they didn't know and he was acting of his own free will. but helping Arti like this? It seems Cannith has too much to loose. I don't Arti as helping so much as making matters worse. What happens if a forged created doesn't accept Arti or wants to go his own way in the world? what happens if a majority of the Warforged he makes takes to the Lord of Blades? It doesn't hold that even if Arti does keep them and educate them fro years on end that they will ever be fully free of the temptation which follows from thier construct heritage. What keeps Arti in check? Who is watching him? Why does Cannith believe him, or that he will help? It just seems so unusual even with the description of him that your wrote. They are simply choosing the lesser of two evils. Both cases House Cannith loses if they support Arti for stopping a war that may never happen, or supplying the world with more unpredictable warforged. Do warforged Choose thier own body feats or does Arti simply restrict that from thier construction? Why isn't anyone monitoring House Cannith and making sure they are complying with the Thronehold accords? I understand secret operation, but nothing stays secret from long.
Forged_DM 09-28-04, 04:11 PM	I'd make Merrix a Villian to be honest. Though he wants to secretly continue making warforged as his grandfather had experimented, he isn't a willing alli to your Arti. If anything Merrix will want to use Arti to his own ends, and Merrix more than likely has lose ties with the LoB since Merrix doesn't care what he does to help his grandfather's creations. Merrix is willing to break a contental law to do this, no one else in house cannith could. Arti somehow is producing warforged, and Cannith is helping him which means that Cannith stands grounds for being disenfranchized since they did not follow through on thier agreement to dismantle all the creation forges. At least with Merrix they didn't know and he was acting of his own free will. but helping Arti like this? It seems Cannith has too much to loose. I don't Arti as helping so much as making matters worse. What happens if a forged created doesn't accept Arti or wants to go his own way in the world? what happens if a majority of the Warforged he makes takes to the Lord of Blades? It doesn't hold that even if Arti does keep them and educate them fro years on end that they will ever be fully free of the temptation which follows from thier construct heritage. What keeps Arti in check? Who is watching him? Why does Cannith believe him, or that he will help? It just seems so unusual even with the description of him that your wrote. They are simply choosing the lesser of two evils. Both cases House Cannith loses if they support Arti for stopping a war that may never happen, or supplying the world with more unpredictable warforged. Do warforged Choose thier own body feats or does Arti simply restrict that from thier construction? Why isn't anyone monitoring House Cannith and making sure they are complying with the Thronehold accords? I understand secret operation, but nothing stays secret from long. Unless I am mis-understanding the ECB pg 22, it says that the grandson is making warforged now and he lets some loose to see what they will do on their own. We are talking about the grandson making a small amount of Forged for Arti. Special Forged but not in great numbers. Cannith wants to use Arti as a buffer against LoB. It's a use use situation. Just like the real world it's a race for power. Each group is struggling to keep the others in check. I will use scout forges but not as player character's. Merrix doesn't have to be a villian. P.S. If part of the quote hasn't been answered it will be addressed later this evening. This is being posted by Forged_DM's wife so if something sounds confusing, it probably is mis-understood on my part...sorry in advance (Forged_Mistress)
Saurenda 09-28-04, 04:20 PM	It's no biggie, no one said you had to answer all my questions. Just curious and excited about a new Eberron game =D I think it is awesome you and your husband are doing this together. As for Merrix yes he is making them in small amount, but as a whole no one knows that he is doing it. No one. Not even the other leaders of Cannith, if they did Thronehold laws would be put into effect and then, no more Cannith South. East and West of Cannith house would dive down on Merrix. How does Arti have the support of Cannith when it is divded into three differently opioniated factions? It doesn't seem one could have the support of one branch of Cannith without the other two branches wanting to stop them from one branch gaining too much powers after thier headquarters, Cannith North was destryoed. Oh I did not say he had to be a villian, I said I would make him a villian. Now there are three different produces of warforged, no matter how limited or mutated the results.
Doctor X 09-28-04, 06:00 PM	Arti is not new. The PC's will be new forged. Merrix d'Cannith's forge is makig some warforged from my understanding. I belive they are selling them quietly (page 22). So Arti has made some friend in the right places. So far I do not see a conflict of what I am doing and the story by Kieth so far. There is lots of room for those that want power, freedom and dark sinister plots. Okay, sorry. I guess I just misunderstood you. That's fine. Don't take anything I said the wrong way... it's just my own personal take on the matter. There really hasn't been much detail released about Merrix d'Cannith, so he could very easily be friends with some of the 'forged he's been creating. That's the only way I really think you could do this, though... cause any other branch of House Cannith likely wouldn't want to risk something like this. I'll bet it's even a secret within Cannith South, and only the most trusted family members and employees know about it, if any aside from Merrix himself do. But it's just as likely that Merrix be exploiting the 'forged for his own uses instead... we'll see in future supplements. Hopefully the Sharn book will tell us more about him.
Six Million 09-28-04, 06:22 PM	Are you sure your PC's will have fun only playing Warforged? That seems a bit limiting.
Neofish 09-28-04, 07:31 PM	A party that consists of all warforged sounds a bit . . . homogenous. Would you at least be using some of the new warforged varieties in the MM3? Never!!! I strongly disagree with the notion of the "Subraced" Warforged. They take away from the Warforged as a unique races with horrible marketing concepts. The "Subraced" Warforged have a NPC/ Encounter aspect, but most deffinatly not an PC aspect.
Six Million 09-28-04, 07:35 PM	Never!!! I strongly disagree with the notion of the "Subraced" Warforged. They take away from the Warforged as a unique races with horrible marketing concepts. The "Subraced" Warforged have a NPC/ Encounter aspect, but most deffinatly not an PC aspect. Quoted for trutherry. But I still think that you should run the idea of an all-warforged party by your players to see what they think of it.
Forged_DM 09-28-04, 08:38 PM	The part knows that they are playing forged. ALso there are a couple of new players so this gives them a chance to not have to worry about having history as they are New Forged. I do not see the Forged as limited. They can become very deep. For example while those fleshy races as sleeping and resting and tired the forged are still working on what they want to do. Fight during the day and if you are okay read at night maybe. I mean there is a lot to take advantage of. How much more could you do if you did not have to sleep at all. Thing of a group of workers building something. They can keep on working and never tire out. The job could be done twice as fast. Now getting darkvision or lowlight for Forged is yummy :)
Jkol the Butcher 09-28-04, 10:29 PM	Sometimes it is refreshing to do a themed party. A warforged party still has plenty of options to explore. Warforged can build mundane items around the clock. I can see a small city rising up quite quickly. Perhaps Merrix d'Cannith has specific need of warforged. There are undoubtedly many House Cannith artifacts lying about the mournland. By manipulating Arti, he gains expendible explorers that can blend in with the lord of blade's minions. More importantly, Merrix needs to prevent the Lord of Blades from provoking another war. He can get away with his experiments for now, but If the LoB provokes a purge of the 'forged... Lets just say that if there aren't any warforged left, new ones are going to be pretty conspicuous. Furthermore, Merrix can set Arti up as the 'fall guy'. To outside observers, the 'forged' might seem very similar in outlook to the LoB. Merrix might get off the hook by claiming that he was coerced. It sounds like a great campaign! Good luck!
Darkest90 09-28-04, 11:00 PM	Arti is against The Lord of the Blades. He feels that The Lord of The Blades will cause a war that will lead to all warforged being destroyed. Alas, this is not the way of pulp/noir! Enemies and villains sometimes become your allies! It is a very interesting plot device in RPGs, I think you should use it. Maybe something threatens both the Lord of Blades and Arti with his Forged, and only by uniting can they get rid of it. Remember: We aren't in Greyhawk anymore. :)