Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Stoneson 08-16-04, 09:38 AM	Just wanted to let folks know that in Mat Smith's new Previews column he gives links to 4 creatures in the new Monster Manual III. 2 of the creatures, the War Troll and the Arrow Demon, include sections explaining where the creatures fit within Eberron. http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20040815a Enjoy! Paul
Mentat55 08-16-04, 01:14 PM	Does anyone think its strange they made the War Troll a monstrous humanoid instead of a giant? I think they did that just to give it a scary BAB.
ieattrollsforbreakfast 08-16-04, 01:33 PM	I think its very strange, it doesnt make sense. There is nothing monstrous about these trolls besides their SR and DR. They should still be giants. I hope they fix this in the final version.
lordconservative 08-16-04, 03:20 PM	The war troll had me frustrated. I had just finished creating a variant troll for use in my campaign that had the same concept, and now this war troll comes along, making my creation look puny. :(
Darkest90 08-16-04, 10:17 PM	I think the War Troll is very cool. Like a lot of the remnants of the Last War, the War Troll continues its legacy. They offer a good mercenary experience for any party, and can be mixed in with any goblin/giant nemesis for flavor. The Arrow Demon paints a colorful picture of what its like on Shavarath. Lots and lots of slaughter and carnage. I could see a small cult summoning one of these guys into Eberron to cause a lot of mayhem. The Dracotaur and the Ambush Dragon could also be added to Eberron. Dracotaur tribes could inhabit Droaam or Q'barra, and more in Argonessan. Ambush Dragons could be right there in the same places. Is it just me, or do the Dracotaurs look a lot like the Dragonspawn from World of Warcraft? *cough* Idea thiefs *cough*
DMAC 08-16-04, 11:32 PM	Originally posted by Darkest90 Is it just me, or do the Dracotaurs look a lot like the Dragonspawn from World of Warcraft? *cough* Idea thiefs *cough* The ironing is delicious.
Kobold Avenger 08-17-04, 06:21 AM	When I first read the Dracotaur entry I thought they were either conversions of the Dracon from Spelljammer, or the Medurr from Alternity's Stardrive setting... So they don't seem like the Dragonspawn from Warcraft to me.
The_other 08-17-04, 02:16 PM	the wartrolls greatsword is listed as 2d8....i thought large greatswords do 3d6?
lordconservative 08-17-04, 02:28 PM	Originally posted by The_other the wartrolls greatsword is listed as 2d8....i thought large greatswords do 3d6? Yes, it is 3d6.
The_other 08-17-04, 03:11 PM	and how can the arrow demon wield large bows when its medium size?
Kravell 08-17-04, 03:28 PM	The_other, If I remember correctly, the arrow demon has a special ability to wield Large bows.
The_other 08-17-04, 03:33 PM	ya i just dont get being able to wield weapons that are bigger than you.....
Teslacoil1138 08-17-04, 03:48 PM	Well considering that some historical longbows were about 8 feet in length, I don't think its too far of a stretch...
The_other 08-18-04, 12:01 AM	well if those 8 foot tall bows were meant for 6ft tale people, how big would a bow ment for a 12 ft tall person be?
sheik 08-18-04, 12:37 PM	Is it just me, or do the war trolls and arrow demons seem very powerful for the universe of Eberron? Given that some of the highest level NPCs in the land are only around 12th, a CR 12 war troll has little to fear on a battlefield. My personal thought is that a single war troll is enough to dominate a battle field. Honest, what could a small or medium sized army do against one? Certainly infantry or even 2nd level fighters would be almost completely ineffective against one. How many mages have acid spells prepared? Massive concentrated damage could bring down such a beast, but with it's DR and Regeneration, most low level troops seem likely to just get in the way. Thankfully, the war trolls lacks cleave. I'm not complaining mind you, but I think it brings up a larger question of how these creatures would effect the world if they really travel in mercenary bands. Could they not turn the tide of war? What do they do now that there is "peace"? How might a mid-level (5th-8th) party handle them, even on a battlefield? If PCs can't take them, who could? Arrow demons, while having a lower CR, seem even harder to kill with their dimension door at will. I can see a general making a dark pact with them perhaps. But again, if such creatures were as common as suggested, without PCs to stop them, what effect would they really have? In my mind, I could see perhaps one or two of such creatures in a battlefield, but it is hard for me to imagine more without it breaking down into a battle of giants. What does everyone else think. How do you seem them fitting into the world? ¢2, dana. (sheik)
Mad Miso 08-18-04, 04:20 PM	The WarTroll is pretty darn powerful, but I don't know that it would be unbeatable. The last war was probably a pretty-high power affair before attrition began taking it's toll, making mercenaries, warforged, and the Karnathi Undead legions necessary for survival. The basic Warforged Titan is no pushover, either.
Darkest90 08-18-04, 08:14 PM	In my Eberron campaigns, I do something a little different than following its low-level ruling for NPCs. In NPC levels, 1st level is an underprivelaged character (battle scrub for warriors), 2nd level is an average character (still a footsoldier, but an experienced grunt), 3rd level is an above average character (a talented veteran, lesser officer) and 4th level is an exceptional character (a leader, officer, squad leader, leuitenant). These levels are for the 'common folk'. Most don't get above 4th level. NPCs with PC levels often don't get above 2nd level, and 3rd is rare for common folk. The 'exceptional individuals' are the race that the PCs are from. These are not your common character, the ones that stand out. In Eberron, only the PCs and the villains get to attain these levels. In my campaign, since there is a need for higher-level folk, I make them widespread. These NPCs can get nearly to 18th level in NPC classes, and 12th in PC levels. There is usually 1 in every 400 non-combatant characters, and 1 in every 30 fighting characters (since most exceptional characters are ones that fight). These 'leaders', in my campaign provide the protection that makes the campaign survive the might of powerful monsters that weren't made for Eberron. So, while a party of War Trolls (6) and a War Troll squadron leader (4th level fighter) could wreak some havoc, a small army of 130 could take them down using these rulings. Better than an army of 600. It still maintains the Eberronesque feeling that monsters are hero calibre, but that the commonfolk can usually overpower them, without having to draw up armies reserved for the Last War, or having to count on the PCs all the time. Also, a 12-foot humanoid could wield a bow about 16 feet in length.
Darkest90 08-18-04, 08:24 PM	(turning my double post into an actual post) It is really ridiculous, though. An average gang of War Trolls with a squadron leader would have a challenge rating of 85! It would take an army of 350 1st-level warriors to take them out! And they would suffer major casualties, too.
Mad Miso 08-19-04, 12:16 AM	I'd imagine that once Wartrolls had been used in battle a few times, people would be better prepared to deal with them. Acid is key. Acid flasks, Acid spells, and some higher-level characters(or warforged) using adamantium weapons with acid enchantments(provided by your friendly neighborhood artificer.) WarTrolls don't have a very good touch AC, and once people start chucking acid flasks/acid arrow at them, their main strength is negated. Still useful though, in the sense that nothing short of a dedicated troll-killer squad can push them back easily. Warforged Titans now, those guys are tanks. DR 10/Adamantine, 10 Energy Resistance, High AC, and nasty charging and overun attacks. Probably easier to get your hands on then super-trolls, too. :D