New Eberron Campaign Houserules [Archive] - Wizards Community

New Eberron Campaign Houserules [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Cabral
01-13-07, 02:54 AM I'm starting a new Eberron Game and I'd like some help from other DMs in deciding what house rules to use.

I was originally thinking basing it off d20 modern with 20 level base classes and tweaking from that. I'm now thinking I'll steal pieces from d20 modern and Unearthed Arcana.

What I'm thinking about is:
Compex Skill Checks (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingCharacters/complexSkillChecks.htm).
Vitality and Wound Points (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/adventuring/vitalityAndWoundPoints.htm).
Maybe the 0 HP = Fort Save Death and Dying variant (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/adventuring/deathAndDying.htm).
Vitalizing Spell Points (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/magic/spellPoints.htm#spellPointVariantVitaliz ing) (including applying the rules to psionics).
Incantations (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/magic/incantations.htm).

From d20 Modern:
Occupations (http://ca.geocities.com/spike_fightwicky/d20modernsrd/occupations.html) (though I'll have to create my own in addition to the ones I can swipe from d20m/Urban Arcana).
Wealth Bonus (http://ca.geocities.com/spike_fightwicky/d20modernsrd/wealth.html) at character creation; GPs after campaign start.
More Incantations (http://ca.geocities.com/spike_fightwicky/d20modernsrd/urbaninc.html).
Toned down firearms based on the d20 Modern firearms (http://ca.geocities.com/spike_fightwicky/d20modernsrd/weapons.html). All will be single shot.

So any ideas, on how these will play out in an Eberron game? Any suggestions as to other house rules to consider or may something I should repeal?

Any help would be appreciated. :D
Alex_
01-13-07, 04:55 AM What's wrong with the firearms in the DMG?
TacoClone
01-13-07, 11:57 AM What's wrong with the firearms in the DMG?

I agree, it would be easier just to use those. They should fit into your campaign relatively easily.

Also, I'm not sure why you would want to change so many things around. But I suppose it's your game and you can do what you want.

I just think that changing things for a campaign takes a lot of work and you better be sure you're prepared for it. :ton:
Cabral
01-13-07, 02:30 PM I had forgotten about the DMG firearms. :D
I will likely halve many of the range increments as well. I rarely see range penalties come into play except with thrown weapons.

The Occupations and Wealth Bonus will pretty much affect character creation only.
Incantations will be rare, I may use them solely for giant magic from Xen'Drik.
Hopefully dying will be rare so that change shouldn't be a constant impact.

I've already been using spell points rather than spell slots and the magic users have liked the change. I suspect that the spell points, complex skill checks, and W/VP will be the only truly visible changes.

(At least I talked myself out of using the vitality points as spell points. :D)
DanjaNinja
01-13-07, 05:29 PM I'm curious how you're going to fit in the core casting classes (Wizard, Cleric, Artificer, etc.). Are you ditching normal spellcasting entirely for incantations, or will they be advanced classes?
Cabral
01-13-07, 11:10 PM I'm not using the d20 modern system. The incantations will be a rarity and the base classes will be as they appear in standard Eberron. I have worked out my own spell point progression for the Artificer.

I'm considering giving a sorcerer with any Dragonmark a +1 CL due to their "traditional" tie to dragons. I don't think I will, but I feel the Sorcerer becomes relatively weaker when preparation casters can cast spontaneously.
Cabral
02-04-07, 06:06 PM The Mournland has limited or no connection to the astral plane. Extradimensional spaces still function, but spells of the Teleportation subschool do not function.

Oases where healing spells function normally rarely match up to ones where teleportation spells function.

Thanks Edymnion (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=11377218&postcount=12).

I had a nice post about prelimanary firearm rules I was going to ask opinions on but a power blink ate it. :(
PoeticJustice
02-04-07, 11:48 PM hold on,
you wanna start a campaign in a setting with 70 new feats, 4 new races, a new base class, magic trains, airships, new gods, redefined racial identities, more material coming out every quarter and a TON of background to learn and then add more house rules.

take it from me: getting people to make the switch to Eberron is a gradual, nuanced procedure. If you throw too much at an inexperienced group it will blow up in your face. Back off for now, and later, when everyone is comfortable, you can bring up how much your game would be improved by X optional rule. ake it from there.

Then again, if your group already knows Eberron and has played it before, then go ahead. Whatever works for your game.
OneWinged4ngel
02-05-07, 02:42 PM So any ideas, on how these will play out in an Eberron game? Any suggestions as to other house rules to consider or may something I should repeal?

I would recommend taking a look at the house rule list in my sig... I've yet to meet a gaming group that didn't immediately take a liking to 'em ^_^
Wrathamon
02-06-07, 03:49 PM Vitality and wound system is a tough sell imo

Way to easy to get knocked off by a crit.

You should take a look at TRUE20, some fans did a conversion of Eberron if you arent too found of the 3.5 ruleset.
pegasuspaladin
02-12-07, 10:19 AM well as a psionic user, lover and advocate, the vitality system can really punish them since every one of their spells cost them pp (no 0-level spells). also at low levels a psion and wilder can go through half their pp's in 3 or 4 rounds. but i'm inclined to agree that this is way to many rules to change at one shot unless you have new players you are teaching these rules to so this is all they know or you have players that are already used to using these new rules. I don't know enough about modern D20 to say why or how but I have been told that it is not balanced for 3.5 dnd.
RogueElement
02-12-07, 10:37 AM My favorite part about the Occupations rules is that Academics get +3 Wealth.

This really is a fantasy world: teachers are rich and engineers are charismatic.
Cabral
02-13-07, 07:41 AM I'm pretty sure University Professors are paid decently well (depending on the university), better than K-12 teacher, at least.
Kid SixXx
02-13-07, 07:47 AM Vitality / Wound System is tricky but there are some benefits. Combat tends to move at a pretty rapid pace but if your dice start getting cold, it can be pretty lethal.

It does tend to level the playing field so that AC isn't that much of a factor. I've noticed that Eberron does tend to draw a lot of the lightly armored pulp hero concepts as far as melees go, as opposed to the lumbering towers of iron found in most other settings. Anything that encourages that isn't all bad.

You'd probably need to tinker the rules a bit to handle Warforged, as I hear that they can be a bit problematic later on, especially when they start taking feats related to crit immunity.

Traditional HP system tends to work better for me because of the way I handle death in my Eberron campaigns. Unlike the FR, I do allow death to occasioanally be a career-threatening hazard and vitality / wound system can be really lethal when dice start getting cold.
Cabral
02-18-07, 02:08 AM I don't see why AC isn't much of factor. I'm not changing anything surrounding AC or attacks.

Other notes: I'll be keeping Drow at LA+2 but LA will not reduce your starting level, only reduce the XP you gain.

For races with racial HD, such as Gnolls, if I allow any, I may treat the racial HD as bonus hit points rather "racial class" levels (so no BAB, saves, skills, etc).
Wrathamon
02-19-07, 02:27 PM Natural 20 automatically hits...

and w. Vitality/Wounds a crit pretty much kills you.

so 5% of the attacks will be a potential crit and automatically hit.

AC isnt as important because all it takes is one hit
johnkretzer
02-20-07, 01:06 AM It does tend to level the playing field so that AC isn't that much of a factor. I've noticed that Eberron does tend to draw a lot of the lightly armored pulp hero concepts as far as melees go, as opposed to the lumbering towers of iron found in most other settings. Anything that encourages that isn't all bad.

My highest AC character doesn't wear armor. AC has nothing to do with the type of armor you wear.
Cabral
02-20-07, 08:10 AM Natural 20 automatically hits...

and w. Vitality/Wounds a crit pretty much kills you.

so 5% of the attacks will be a potential crit and automatically hit.

AC isnt as important because all it takes is one hit
So, AC isn't important because there is a 0.25% chance of an automatic crit?

Okay, I can see the potential for concern, particularly with sneak attacks and some of the ray spells. The 0 Hp = Fort save should mitigate that considerably.

That said, the point of such a rule is to make things dangerous regardless of party level, while helping low level PCs.

I could ignore autohits on critical confirmation checks.
Kid SixXx
02-20-07, 08:47 AM So, AC isn't important because there is a 0.25% chance of an automatic crit?

I am pleased to see that at least one person understands my point.

I don't see why AC isn't much of factor. I'm not changing anything surrounding AC or attacks.

AC won't be a really important factor, but autohits or crits most likely will be. Warforged built-in fortification at 1st level should make them extremely attractive over other races.

Of course you have to roll hits in order to do damage, so AC will play some sort of role, albeit minor.

My highest AC character doesn't wear armor. AC has nothing to do with the type of armor you wear.

I don't think I really implied that it did; only that wearing armor is the easiest way to boost AC other than burning feats, relying on class features like Wis boosts, or magic.
johnkretzer
02-20-07, 01:16 PM I don't think I really implied that it did; only that wearing armor is the easiest way to boost AC other than burning feats, relying on class features like Wis boosts, or magic.

I understand that but a character designed to be the lightly armored character does rely on AC not HPs. So you would be damaging that archtype which is important to Eberron.
Kid SixXx
02-20-07, 02:05 PM I understand that but a character designed to be the lightly armored character does rely on AC not HPs. So you would be damaging that archtype which is important to Eberron.

Wouldn't that depend on class levels also?

Regardless of how heavily armored a 1st level fighter in plate mail will be, statistically speaking a 3rd level Swashbuckler should be able to kill him with perhaps a little trouble unless someone has very lucky dice.

If they are the same level, then the contest would arguably go to the luckiest fighter as the plate mail guy lumbers around trying to kill the more agile Swashbuckler, as the Swashbuckler secretly prays not to get hit by the armored guy's axe. Seems like a realistic, reasonable outcome to me.

Like that punchline of that old joke goes, "The bull, Señor, he does not always lose."

Unless your DM is out to kill you, the archaetype of the lightly armed fighter should be fairly safe. Between mounting BAB and class features to boost AC, I think that the mechanisms are in place to enforce some sort of balance and parity.
Wrathamon
02-20-07, 04:24 PM The Massive Damage Save that D20 modern uses is a better way of doing it than the Star Wars Vitality/Wound system, imo.

personally, I like the TRUE20 damage system for a more gritty game.

I would make a Warforged with a Keen Falchion and go to town in a Vitality/wound game. :eek:

Oh yes also how does magic damage work for Vitality/wounds? does the fireball only do Vitality? Some things to concider with magic in that system. Ir emember a debat when Unearthed Arcana came out talking about it. Good stuff in that thread.
Cabral
02-21-07, 08:22 AM I am pleased to see that at least one person understands my point.

AC won't be a really important factor, but autohits or crits most likely will be. Warforged built-in fortification at 1st level should make them extremely attractive over other races.

Of course you have to roll hits in order to do damage, so AC will play some sort of role, albeit minor.
Minor? You can't build a game, or character, around something that happens 5% (autohit) of the time, and especially not 0.25% (autocrit) of the time. Yes, you should keep them in mind, but they shouldn't dominate the design.

Oh yes also how does magic damage work for Vitality/wounds? does the fireball only do Vitality? Some things to concider with magic in that system. Ir emember a debat when Unearthed Arcana came out talking about it. Good stuff in that thread.
All lethal damage is vitality unless the attacker scores a critical or the defender is out of vitality. I will probably have any damage that is not multiplied by critical normally deal vitality damage.

If so, damage reduction (if applicable) will apply to wound damage first then to vitality damage if there is any remaining.

examples (7 wound damage, 10 vitality damage):
DR 5: wound damage is reduced to 2 (7-5), vitality damage remains 10.
DR 10: wound damage is negated, vitality damage is reduced to 7 (10 - (10-7)).

I'm trying to make a particularly gritty game. I'm trying to make low levels more survivable and higher levels more challenging ... without using massive damage. I'd actually like to not use a massive damage threshold at all.
Kid SixXx
02-21-07, 08:35 AM Minor? You can't build a game, or character, around something that happens 5% (autohit) of the time, and especially not 0.25% (autocrit) of the time. Yes, you should keep them in mind, but they shouldn't dominate the design.

Well, my point in that particular post was that autohits and autocrits will mean even less to Warforged, who even at 1st level have some kind of fortification & that will change dramatically should the WF invest in more WF feats devoted to diminishing the chances of crits.

Unless you want your PC's to play an entire party of Warforged so that they can statistically hedge their bets even further than normal (powergamers do because even a remote chance is still a chance), you should perhaps weigh those things a smidge heavier than usual.

Not much, but a bit heavier, especially when the party starts fighting things they cannot crit but can crit them (ie. undead, some outsiders, constructs, etc.) and the MVP's of the party become the spell-casters.
Wrathamon
02-21-07, 02:10 PM All lethal damage is vitality unless the attacker scores a critical or the defender is out of vitality. I will probably have any damage that is not multiplied by critical normally deal vitality damage.

which makes spells hard to kill characters outright since only rays will ever do wounds. Why worry about spell damage it is just vitality draining... you will be up and ready to fight after the battle with just a short breath. Magic fire? Bah!

scimitars, rapiers and falchions are going to be the weapons of choice with Keen or improved critcal...

btw I am just letting you know the situations that could come up that may impact your game. I have run a Vitality/Wound game... the players hated it.

Two main reasons
One: more book keeping
Two: dying because of a lucky roll that they had no control over

Saves are at least in their control

There is a variant way of playing where the players make all the rolls.

The Monster attacks you... roll your defense.

D20 + Armor Bonus + Shield + Dex bonus + dodge bonus + size bonus + Natural + deflection + misc bonuses

vs. the attack class of the attacker

10 + Bab + Str bonus (melee) Dex bonus (ranged) + enchantments + misc

Natual 1 means an automatic hit with a potential critical if they fail to suceed on another defense roll.

Characters at lower levels are much more survivable because their defense bonus is better than the attack bonuses of creatures.
Cabral
04-01-07, 04:57 AM which makes spells hard to kill characters outright since only rays will ever do wounds. Why worry about spell damage it is just vitality draining... you will be up and ready to fight after the battle with just a short breath. Magic fire? Bah!

This is moot for the moment as wife is running a game instead of me (yay!) ... but, when you run out of vitality, you take wound damage.

I may resume my plans for the Campaign of Ultimate Doom later, but for now I'm runny amok in the wife's world! Amok! Amok! Amok!
Hideous Phidias
04-01-07, 11:56 AM I always like giving background feats in the start of a new campaign. I found that it helps tye the charcters to the world. There are many of good background feats in the players guide and races.
Wrathamon
04-02-07, 08:14 PM I would check out the new Star Wars Saga damage rules... they look very good imo.
Sir Elton
04-02-07, 11:24 PM I have only three house rules this time around.

1. Dynamic Spellcasting.
2. Spell Points.
3. Weapon Group Feats.

Keep your house rules small until you know what to do.
Sir Elton
04-02-07, 11:25 PM This is moot for the moment as wife is running a game instead of me (yay!) ... but, when you run out of vitality, you take wound damage.

I may resume my plans for the Campaign of Ultimate Doom later, but for now I'm runny amok in the wife's world! Amok! Amok! Amok!

Oh, you're so lucky. :)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Cabral 01-13-07, 02:54 AM	I'm starting a new Eberron Game and I'd like some help from other DMs in deciding what house rules to use. I was originally thinking basing it off d20 modern with 20 level base classes and tweaking from that. I'm now thinking I'll steal pieces from d20 modern and Unearthed Arcana. What I'm thinking about is: Compex Skill Checks (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingCharacters/complexSkillChecks.htm). Vitality and Wound Points (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/adventuring/vitalityAndWoundPoints.htm). Maybe the 0 HP = Fort Save Death and Dying variant (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/adventuring/deathAndDying.htm). Vitalizing Spell Points (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/magic/spellPoints.htm#spellPointVariantVitaliz ing) (including applying the rules to psionics). Incantations (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/magic/incantations.htm). From d20 Modern: Occupations (http://ca.geocities.com/spike_fightwicky/d20modernsrd/occupations.html) (though I'll have to create my own in addition to the ones I can swipe from d20m/Urban Arcana). Wealth Bonus (http://ca.geocities.com/spike_fightwicky/d20modernsrd/wealth.html) at character creation; GPs after campaign start. More Incantations (http://ca.geocities.com/spike_fightwicky/d20modernsrd/urbaninc.html). Toned down firearms based on the d20 Modern firearms (http://ca.geocities.com/spike_fightwicky/d20modernsrd/weapons.html). All will be single shot. So any ideas, on how these will play out in an Eberron game? Any suggestions as to other house rules to consider or may something I should repeal? Any help would be appreciated. :D
Alex_ 01-13-07, 04:55 AM	What's wrong with the firearms in the DMG?
TacoClone 01-13-07, 11:57 AM	What's wrong with the firearms in the DMG? I agree, it would be easier just to use those. They should fit into your campaign relatively easily. Also, I'm not sure why you would want to change so many things around. But I suppose it's your game and you can do what you want. I just think that changing things for a campaign takes a lot of work and you better be sure you're prepared for it. :ton:
Cabral 01-13-07, 02:30 PM	I had forgotten about the DMG firearms. :D I will likely halve many of the range increments as well. I rarely see range penalties come into play except with thrown weapons. The Occupations and Wealth Bonus will pretty much affect character creation only. Incantations will be rare, I may use them solely for giant magic from Xen'Drik. Hopefully dying will be rare so that change shouldn't be a constant impact. I've already been using spell points rather than spell slots and the magic users have liked the change. I suspect that the spell points, complex skill checks, and W/VP will be the only truly visible changes. (At least I talked myself out of using the vitality points as spell points. :D)
DanjaNinja 01-13-07, 05:29 PM	I'm curious how you're going to fit in the core casting classes (Wizard, Cleric, Artificer, etc.). Are you ditching normal spellcasting entirely for incantations, or will they be advanced classes?
Cabral 01-13-07, 11:10 PM	I'm not using the d20 modern system. The incantations will be a rarity and the base classes will be as they appear in standard Eberron. I have worked out my own spell point progression for the Artificer. I'm considering giving a sorcerer with any Dragonmark a +1 CL due to their "traditional" tie to dragons. I don't think I will, but I feel the Sorcerer becomes relatively weaker when preparation casters can cast spontaneously.
Cabral 02-04-07, 06:06 PM	The Mournland has limited or no connection to the astral plane. Extradimensional spaces still function, but spells of the Teleportation subschool do not function. Oases where healing spells function normally rarely match up to ones where teleportation spells function. Thanks Edymnion (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=11377218&postcount=12). I had a nice post about prelimanary firearm rules I was going to ask opinions on but a power blink ate it. :(
PoeticJustice 02-04-07, 11:48 PM	hold on, you wanna start a campaign in a setting with 70 new feats, 4 new races, a new base class, magic trains, airships, new gods, redefined racial identities, more material coming out every quarter and a TON of background to learn and then add more house rules. take it from me: getting people to make the switch to Eberron is a gradual, nuanced procedure. If you throw too much at an inexperienced group it will blow up in your face. Back off for now, and later, when everyone is comfortable, you can bring up how much your game would be improved by X optional rule. ake it from there. Then again, if your group already knows Eberron and has played it before, then go ahead. Whatever works for your game.
OneWinged4ngel 02-05-07, 02:42 PM	So any ideas, on how these will play out in an Eberron game? Any suggestions as to other house rules to consider or may something I should repeal? I would recommend taking a look at the house rule list in my sig... I've yet to meet a gaming group that didn't immediately take a liking to 'em ^_^
Wrathamon 02-06-07, 03:49 PM	Vitality and wound system is a tough sell imo Way to easy to get knocked off by a crit. You should take a look at TRUE20, some fans did a conversion of Eberron if you arent too found of the 3.5 ruleset.
pegasuspaladin 02-12-07, 10:19 AM	well as a psionic user, lover and advocate, the vitality system can really punish them since every one of their spells cost them pp (no 0-level spells). also at low levels a psion and wilder can go through half their pp's in 3 or 4 rounds. but i'm inclined to agree that this is way to many rules to change at one shot unless you have new players you are teaching these rules to so this is all they know or you have players that are already used to using these new rules. I don't know enough about modern D20 to say why or how but I have been told that it is not balanced for 3.5 dnd.
RogueElement 02-12-07, 10:37 AM	My favorite part about the Occupations rules is that Academics get +3 Wealth. This really is a fantasy world: teachers are rich and engineers are charismatic.
Cabral 02-13-07, 07:41 AM	I'm pretty sure University Professors are paid decently well (depending on the university), better than K-12 teacher, at least.
Kid SixXx 02-13-07, 07:47 AM	Vitality / Wound System is tricky but there are some benefits. Combat tends to move at a pretty rapid pace but if your dice start getting cold, it can be pretty lethal. It does tend to level the playing field so that AC isn't that much of a factor. I've noticed that Eberron does tend to draw a lot of the lightly armored pulp hero concepts as far as melees go, as opposed to the lumbering towers of iron found in most other settings. Anything that encourages that isn't all bad. You'd probably need to tinker the rules a bit to handle Warforged, as I hear that they can be a bit problematic later on, especially when they start taking feats related to crit immunity. Traditional HP system tends to work better for me because of the way I handle death in my Eberron campaigns. Unlike the FR, I do allow death to occasioanally be a career-threatening hazard and vitality / wound system can be really lethal when dice start getting cold.
Cabral 02-18-07, 02:08 AM	I don't see why AC isn't much of factor. I'm not changing anything surrounding AC or attacks. Other notes: I'll be keeping Drow at LA+2 but LA will not reduce your starting level, only reduce the XP you gain. For races with racial HD, such as Gnolls, if I allow any, I may treat the racial HD as bonus hit points rather "racial class" levels (so no BAB, saves, skills, etc).
Wrathamon 02-19-07, 02:27 PM	Natural 20 automatically hits... and w. Vitality/Wounds a crit pretty much kills you. so 5% of the attacks will be a potential crit and automatically hit. AC isnt as important because all it takes is one hit
johnkretzer 02-20-07, 01:06 AM	It does tend to level the playing field so that AC isn't that much of a factor. I've noticed that Eberron does tend to draw a lot of the lightly armored pulp hero concepts as far as melees go, as opposed to the lumbering towers of iron found in most other settings. Anything that encourages that isn't all bad. My highest AC character doesn't wear armor. AC has nothing to do with the type of armor you wear.
Cabral 02-20-07, 08:10 AM	Natural 20 automatically hits... and w. Vitality/Wounds a crit pretty much kills you. so 5% of the attacks will be a potential crit and automatically hit. AC isnt as important because all it takes is one hit So, AC isn't important because there is a 0.25% chance of an automatic crit? Okay, I can see the potential for concern, particularly with sneak attacks and some of the ray spells. The 0 Hp = Fort save should mitigate that considerably. That said, the point of such a rule is to make things dangerous regardless of party level, while helping low level PCs. I could ignore autohits on critical confirmation checks.
Kid SixXx 02-20-07, 08:47 AM	So, AC isn't important because there is a 0.25% chance of an automatic crit? I am pleased to see that at least one person understands my point. I don't see why AC isn't much of factor. I'm not changing anything surrounding AC or attacks. AC won't be a really important factor, but autohits or crits most likely will be. Warforged built-in fortification at 1st level should make them extremely attractive over other races. Of course you have to roll hits in order to do damage, so AC will play some sort of role, albeit minor. My highest AC character doesn't wear armor. AC has nothing to do with the type of armor you wear. I don't think I really implied that it did; only that wearing armor is the easiest way to boost AC other than burning feats, relying on class features like Wis boosts, or magic.
johnkretzer 02-20-07, 01:16 PM	I don't think I really implied that it did; only that wearing armor is the easiest way to boost AC other than burning feats, relying on class features like Wis boosts, or magic. I understand that but a character designed to be the lightly armored character does rely on AC not HPs. So you would be damaging that archtype which is important to Eberron.
Kid SixXx 02-20-07, 02:05 PM	I understand that but a character designed to be the lightly armored character does rely on AC not HPs. So you would be damaging that archtype which is important to Eberron. Wouldn't that depend on class levels also? Regardless of how heavily armored a 1st level fighter in plate mail will be, statistically speaking a 3rd level Swashbuckler should be able to kill him with perhaps a little trouble unless someone has very lucky dice. If they are the same level, then the contest would arguably go to the luckiest fighter as the plate mail guy lumbers around trying to kill the more agile Swashbuckler, as the Swashbuckler secretly prays not to get hit by the armored guy's axe. Seems like a realistic, reasonable outcome to me. Like that punchline of that old joke goes, "The bull, Señor, he does not always lose." Unless your DM is out to kill you, the archaetype of the lightly armed fighter should be fairly safe. Between mounting BAB and class features to boost AC, I think that the mechanisms are in place to enforce some sort of balance and parity.
Wrathamon 02-20-07, 04:24 PM	The Massive Damage Save that D20 modern uses is a better way of doing it than the Star Wars Vitality/Wound system, imo. personally, I like the TRUE20 damage system for a more gritty game. I would make a Warforged with a Keen Falchion and go to town in a Vitality/wound game. :eek: Oh yes also how does magic damage work for Vitality/wounds? does the fireball only do Vitality? Some things to concider with magic in that system. Ir emember a debat when Unearthed Arcana came out talking about it. Good stuff in that thread.
Cabral 02-21-07, 08:22 AM	I am pleased to see that at least one person understands my point. AC won't be a really important factor, but autohits or crits most likely will be. Warforged built-in fortification at 1st level should make them extremely attractive over other races. Of course you have to roll hits in order to do damage, so AC will play some sort of role, albeit minor. Minor? You can't build a game, or character, around something that happens 5% (autohit) of the time, and especially not 0.25% (autocrit) of the time. Yes, you should keep them in mind, but they shouldn't dominate the design. Oh yes also how does magic damage work for Vitality/wounds? does the fireball only do Vitality? Some things to concider with magic in that system. Ir emember a debat when Unearthed Arcana came out talking about it. Good stuff in that thread. All lethal damage is vitality unless the attacker scores a critical or the defender is out of vitality. I will probably have any damage that is not multiplied by critical normally deal vitality damage. If so, damage reduction (if applicable) will apply to wound damage first then to vitality damage if there is any remaining. examples (7 wound damage, 10 vitality damage): DR 5: wound damage is reduced to 2 (7-5), vitality damage remains 10. DR 10: wound damage is negated, vitality damage is reduced to 7 (10 - (10-7)). I'm trying to make a particularly gritty game. I'm trying to make low levels more survivable and higher levels more challenging ... without using massive damage. I'd actually like to not use a massive damage threshold at all.
Kid SixXx 02-21-07, 08:35 AM	Minor? You can't build a game, or character, around something that happens 5% (autohit) of the time, and especially not 0.25% (autocrit) of the time. Yes, you should keep them in mind, but they shouldn't dominate the design. Well, my point in that particular post was that autohits and autocrits will mean even less to Warforged, who even at 1st level have some kind of fortification & that will change dramatically should the WF invest in more WF feats devoted to diminishing the chances of crits. Unless you want your PC's to play an entire party of Warforged so that they can statistically hedge their bets even further than normal (powergamers do because even a remote chance is still a chance), you should perhaps weigh those things a smidge heavier than usual. Not much, but a bit heavier, especially when the party starts fighting things they cannot crit but can crit them (ie. undead, some outsiders, constructs, etc.) and the MVP's of the party become the spell-casters.
Wrathamon 02-21-07, 02:10 PM	All lethal damage is vitality unless the attacker scores a critical or the defender is out of vitality. I will probably have any damage that is not multiplied by critical normally deal vitality damage. which makes spells hard to kill characters outright since only rays will ever do wounds. Why worry about spell damage it is just vitality draining... you will be up and ready to fight after the battle with just a short breath. Magic fire? Bah! scimitars, rapiers and falchions are going to be the weapons of choice with Keen or improved critcal... btw I am just letting you know the situations that could come up that may impact your game. I have run a Vitality/Wound game... the players hated it. Two main reasons One: more book keeping Two: dying because of a lucky roll that they had no control over Saves are at least in their control There is a variant way of playing where the players make all the rolls. The Monster attacks you... roll your defense. D20 + Armor Bonus + Shield + Dex bonus + dodge bonus + size bonus + Natural + deflection + misc bonuses vs. the attack class of the attacker 10 + Bab + Str bonus (melee) Dex bonus (ranged) + enchantments + misc Natual 1 means an automatic hit with a potential critical if they fail to suceed on another defense roll. Characters at lower levels are much more survivable because their defense bonus is better than the attack bonuses of creatures.
Cabral 04-01-07, 04:57 AM	which makes spells hard to kill characters outright since only rays will ever do wounds. Why worry about spell damage it is just vitality draining... you will be up and ready to fight after the battle with just a short breath. Magic fire? Bah! This is moot for the moment as wife is running a game instead of me (yay!) ... but, when you run out of vitality, you take wound damage. I may resume my plans for the Campaign of Ultimate Doom later, but for now I'm runny amok in the wife's world! Amok! Amok! Amok!
Hideous Phidias 04-01-07, 11:56 AM	I always like giving background feats in the start of a new campaign. I found that it helps tye the charcters to the world. There are many of good background feats in the players guide and races.
Wrathamon 04-02-07, 08:14 PM	I would check out the new Star Wars Saga damage rules... they look very good imo.
Sir Elton 04-02-07, 11:24 PM	I have only three house rules this time around. 1. Dynamic Spellcasting. 2. Spell Points. 3. Weapon Group Feats. Keep your house rules small until you know what to do.
Sir Elton 04-02-07, 11:25 PM	This is moot for the moment as wife is running a game instead of me (yay!) ... but, when you run out of vitality, you take wound damage. I may resume my plans for the Campaign of Ultimate Doom later, but for now I'm runny amok in the wife's world! Amok! Amok! Amok! Oh, you're so lucky. :)