Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Stoutmeister 11-22-05, 02:22 PM	Okay I'm thinking about picking up the eberron campaign book but I have been cautioned by a few most wise friends that it is highly unbalanced. Why so may I ask? (please try to be neutral and raise points of conflict instead of trying to sway me).
Shroomy 11-22-05, 02:53 PM	Can you provide some more specifics? I know a lot of people say that some of the races are unbalanced, particularly the warforged and shifter, but I think that this is a somewhat misplaced charge given the way magic impacts warforged and that you have to use a lot of feats to maximize your shifter abilities.
Dragonmann 11-22-05, 03:18 PM	Eberron is unbalanced compared to anything that is not eberron. In and of itself it is very well balanced. It is an extremly high magic campaign with a very very low average NPC level. A level 10 character is godly compared to 99% of the world, and has way more magic then a grayhawker or a faeruinian. It takes an open mind, and the ability to realize that eberron is not another continent of the realms, but a completely seperate world to understand.
Dougbert 11-22-05, 03:38 PM	Eberron is different, so very different, in style and tone from the more standard settings like Forgotten Realms or Greyhawk. It isn't really designed to be a swords-n-sorcery hack-n-slash world, its more high adventure than slaughter the orcs. I would have to disagree slightly with the way Dragonmann phrased it, I wouldn't call Eberron 'high magic'. It's more like 'extremely abundant, very low level magic' with more powerful magic used in creative and pragmatic ways used to inspire action sequences. Eberron is Eberron and you can't see the whole picture by comparing single features of Eberron to the Realms or Greyhawk.
a_psh 11-22-05, 03:40 PM	There is insufficient information for us to give a satisfying answer to the question asked. Please be more specific. On the items question: suggested PC and NPC gear value from the DMG still applies. So you don't actually have more loot per se. Instead, what you see is more really-low-level magic being used all over the place. This is fascilitated, in part, by the Magewright class - basically a spellcasting artistan. So you see fewer high-level wizards but more low-level casters (similarly, most priests are adepts or even... experts!). The rarity of PC class levels and, moreover, action points makes the PCs more special than they would be in a lot of other settings. Why? Well, most mortals just don't get above level 5 or so. This is quite distinct from stuff that some people are used to, where every town guard is a level 5 paladin or fighter and The new races are unique, but not unbalanced. People mostly complain about the warforged, as they can take a feat to gain a +8 armor bonus and DR 2/adamantine at first level (and only at first level), making for some very effective low-level fighter builds. I think the human, with his two-feat advantage and ability to buy adamantine plate, is actually a better fighter by about level 6 or 7. I've also heard complaints about the artificer. Most are based on the ability to apply metamagic to wands. Basically, this results in a lot of CO-style "nova" builds. This is no different from wizard/sorceror or psion/wilder "novas," however, with the exception that it's perhaps possible a few levels earlier but you're burning through thousands of gold peices in equipment per round. If you put together every metamagic feat every printed, the artificer can be pretty terrifying; then again, at that point, so is the wizard. All the PCs have approximately equal access to the Action Point mechanic. There are a few feats and classes that enhance Action Points, but they're balanced against a vanilla-class character using the baseline Action Point abilities that everyone gets. Effectively, Action Points are a way to have fewer fights of a higher CR, which is something that Eberron tends to encourage a little bit. The fact that all Eberron PCs have Action Points (only ridiculously important NPCs who take a feat get tthem) makes them slightly more potent than PCs from other settings. This is no different from your character in a game where you roll 4d6 drop lowest for stats being better than your friend's character from a game where they roll 3d6 in order, for example (incidentally, Eberron follows the DMG recommendations on stats a bit more closely than other settings and most homebrews, and assumes stats close to the standard array or point buy numbers... I'd recommend not running more than PB 28 or PB 32 at most, unless you drastically change NPCs and monster to compensate). Overall, though, I'd have to say that the custom prestige classes published for Eberron are less powerful than most of the stuff that came out of FR (Faiths and Pantheons comes to mind). Basically, I would compare the Eberron Campaign Setting to the core rules and the other accessories to splatbooks. Stuff in the ECS is pretty balanced and very mechanically interesting. It's abusable, but optimal abuse really requires a lot of extra material and some shady ruleslawyering, like most of the core. So, for example, the artificer is no more imbalanced than the wizard, druid, or cleric. It can compare to them in many situations, but is also weaker in many others. The extra books, in contrast, are a lot like splatbooks... there are a lot more errors and broken mechanics around. None of the Eberron prestige classes really stand out as being particularly uber, in my mind - it's a matter of a few design mistakes here and there, not power creep.
Korhal_IV 11-22-05, 03:43 PM	It is an extremly high magic campaign with a very very low average NPC level. A level 10 character is godly compared to 99% of the world, and has way more magic then a grayhawker or a faeruinian. Uh, I disagree. On many counts, but I'll pick at the latter first. A 10th level character is really impressive in Eberron, because average NPC level hovers around 3-4 with an NPC class to boot, but a 10th level Eberron character has no more and no less magic than a 10th level Greyhawk or Faerun character. Wealth-by-level tables exist for a reason, you know. Nor are any Eberron-specific items really powerful, that I've noticed. Unless you mean those awesome cabinets that refresh and flavor food. All of my parties make it a priority to find one. As for being "extremely high magic", I don't think so. Someone on these boards posted the term "wide magic", and I like that phrase. It's a lot - and I mean a lot - of extremely low-level magic. Prestidigitation effects are everywhere, and so are most 1st-level spell effects, but it's extremely rare to find anything of 3rd level or higher (that isn't stupidly expensive). In the dungeon, your Eberron adventurers will probably find that cabinet that can flavor food, but they won't find a +3 sword unless they hock the cleric. I don't think Eberron is unbalanced. The artificer is a potent class, but he's comparable to the cleric or wizard. The new races have some significant hidden limitations - for example, my warforged recently had to contend with falling down a well. It's a good thing he doesn't drown, because it took the party fifteen minutes to haul him out!
Rake 11-22-05, 03:43 PM	Yes, you'll need to be more specific. In general, even Dungeons & Dragons itself is not perfectly balanced. What sorts of Eberron-specific material are you talking about? If it is the races that your friends are suspicious of, then - if you must know - some folks, myself included, feel that the Warforged, Eberron's signature new race, are not balanced as an LA +0 race. Honestly, it's not even a 'maybe' (or even all that close to one) from my point of view... they ought to be a LA +1 race, period. You'll hear that, within an Eberron campaign, Warforged are balanced in that they cannot take the new Dragonmarked feats, but even that is extraordinarily illogical, as it implies that Dragonmarked players are more powerful than non-Dragonmarked players. In addition to the fact that this would be absurd... well, the Dragonmarked feats are good, but not moreso than other 'good' feats. Additionally, this would mean that the other new races: changelings, shifters, and kalashtar - are also more powerful than the ordinary races, which they are not. (Though they are incredibly good races in that they are balanced and oh-so-fun-and-flavorful.) A flurry of arguments will follow this post, regarding the 'drawbacks' of the Warforged - but honestly, most of those can be turned into advantages... especially with artificers, (a new base class), around. Generally, even the supporters of the LA +0 Warforged eventually admit that they're a 'high LA +0'. In truth, they're more like a 'high LA +1', but... ...they are fun and fit in well. If the issue of the Warforged is your group's primary concern, my advice is as follows: don't let a single level adjustment ruin a fantastic campaign setting for you. As for Eberron's new feat-and-spell material, I give feats an A+ for both function and flavor, and spells a straight C for quasi-boringness (though not-broken-ness... in fact, the new spells are few and occasionally a tad weak). : / As I said, the feats rock, though. Eberron's real 'hook' is it's flavor. It catches you. I read through the ECS like it was a novel. Keith Baker's work is fantastic. If your friends press the issue, and are dead-set against the setting, they may argue (as Eberron's critics often do) that the setting is a rehash of "Final Fantasy" and other video-game elements, or that the target audience consists of 12-year-old fanboys. To that argument I can say only this: Page through the ECS at your local gaming store. Skip the races and classes - go straight for the chapter called "Organizations". Page through it. Read around. Eberron, I think you will find, is a world of intrigue. Deep intrigue. In fact, I feel obligated to bring up one further point: The ECS itself warns that combat may become just slightly less frequent within the world of Eberron, and that when combat does occur, it's often fast-paced and... well... important. Random encounters, and trivial encounters in general, are downplayed in Eberron, and suspense and intrigue take center stage. Like in the movies ('cinematic' would be the one word I'd use to describe Eberron), when combat occurs in a properly-DM'med Eberron setting, the players take notice. In summary: moderately annoying balance issue with the Warforged, and disappointingly lame magic [(vs.)] A fantastic setting that will change the way you play, and the way you think when you play... at least for a while. Plus cool new feats and a fun but challenging new class.
Zorloff 11-22-05, 03:50 PM	Eberron is different, so very different, in style and tone from the more standard settings like Forgotten Realms or Greyhawk. It isn't really designed to be a swords-n-sorcery hack-n-slash world, its more high adventure than slaughter the orcs. I would have to disagree slightly with the way Dragonmann phrased it, I wouldn't call Eberron 'high magic'. It's more like 'extremely abundant, very low level magic' with more powerful magic used in creative and pragmatic ways used to inspire action sequences. Eberron is Eberron and you can't see the whole picture by comparing single features of Eberron to the Realms or Greyhawk. Agreed. I would check out the FAQ for Eberron Newbies by JohnnyO at the top of this forum. It can give you a good feel for the setting. As far as being balanced, I sure think it is. As has been mentioned the only races that can give you any trouble are the Warforged and the shifters, but the 'forged feats are front loaded and the shifter feats eat up a characters other feat selection. It is a wide-magic lower level setting that is IMHO very well balanced. There are action points but those are not unbalance in the campaign much like force points are balanced in Star Wars RPG. The new class, the atificer, is a great addition and a balanced class. I think you can play any class/race combo you want and be just fine in the setting...not like Star Wars where it is tough to have a jedi in a group of non-force users. Out of curiosity did your sources give any specifics as to what they thought was unbalanced? Z
Lord_Of_The_Savages 11-22-05, 07:34 PM	I have yet to play in Eberron. I have played countless campaigns of Forgotten Realms. So let me say this. Forgotten Realms is an amazingly detailed world. It has a rich history, vibrant characters, well-structured religion, society, races, etc. It is truly a world that has 'grown' through the years. I will always be a fan of Forgotten Realms - but probably only through novels now. The reason is Eberron. My players love fantasy (we have done Marvel, World of Darkness, all good and well, but D&D is still king!) as do I; and for me it really came down to wanting something different. Eberron is richly detailed and all of the information written on it is well done. It seems as if it was made with the potential players in mind - BECAUSE it makes the players heroes. Once again I admit I have yet to play it - however, the source information has spurred countless ideas in my mind - because of its unique focus on making the players HEROES (not other people, but the players), it has a rich political and social backdrop, and because it is new. I feel as if I am straying from my meaning - the bottom line is this: Eberron is not unbalanced, as a matter of fact I would say no world is unbalanced; instead each world gives you a set of 'guidelines'; it is up to the DM to make it 'balanced'. end rant now :twitch:
cmanos 11-23-05, 08:11 AM	lets just sai Eberron is much LESS unbalanced than...say...FR...
Dragonmann 11-23-05, 08:45 AM	Ok first off by high magic, i meant in the classical sense where magic is everywhere, as opposed to high-level magic, which is deffinetly not the case. And as for my comment about more magic, don't you think that a pure fighter that can use leser globe of invulnerability 1/day (Lesser Mark of Sentinel) has more magic than any pure fighter from any other realm? Also the availability of magical items is dramatically increased if a party member plays an artificer, and for the same wealth investment, characters can not only have more gear, but customized gear. And finally, since low level magic is more widly available, and the characters tend to interact less with the huddled masses than with people on par with them (CR system anyone) Then it becomes more likely that opponents will have magic items to use? Since characters have a tendency to pry everything from the cold dead fingers of everything they kill, doesn't this increased proliferation of magic result in the characters having more. In regards to the balance issues of warforged, they have some issues, primarily in regards to playing to their strengths easily. For example a warforged fighter can relatively easily start off with a 20 constitution, a naked AC of 19 (Adamantine body plus dex) And with the racial substitution levels from RoE d12 hp at lv 1, 2, and 4, but is that anyworse than an elven ranger with a dex of 20, or even a wizard with the same, and racial bow proficiency?
Dougbert 11-23-05, 10:05 AM	Also the availability of magical items is dramatically increased if a party member plays an artificer, and for the same wealth investment, characters can not only have more gear, but customized gear. In my experience with campaigns containing artificer PC's it doesn't really work out this way. Sure, the typical artificer can create items at half the base cost in gp, but still has to spend xp. The 'artificers give the party double gear' argument is a myth at the table. In fact, most artificers I've gamed with have used 85% - 90% of their craft reserve (and personal xp expenditures) for their own gear. The end result has been a character less than on par with a cleric or wizard in terms of spell casting, obviously less powerful in physical attacks than a fighter or rogue, but able to adequately fill-in in almost any situation. Artificers are very adaptable and can be very powerful when used by a smart player, but no more so than a sorcerer or rogue of equal level.
Sieylianna 11-23-05, 01:08 PM	There are things in the Ebberron campaign setting which are too good. At the top of the list is psionics, which aren't well balanced with other forms of magic. Divine casters are better healers. Arcane casters have a greater variety of area effect spells. But a well-built psion can replace both far better than a mystic theurge and at lower level. Warforged should be a +1 LA. Period. They have far too many immunties and one of the warforged body feats gives them armor at 1st level that PCs of other races won't achieve for another 5+ levels. Artificers are too good in the hands of a player who knows what he is doing. You have access to any spell in order to create magic items, like scrolls or potions. With a little downtime and some planning on the part of the artificer, he's going to make things difficult for the DM. Action points are nice in that they eliminate the need for the DM to fudge die rolls when the players are unlucky, but IMO the best use is to auto-stabilize. You don't suffer any more damage and the party isn't distracted from the combat from the need to heal you. The Races of Eberron book dramatically ramps up the power of the Eberron specific races. Without that book, I don't think changelings or shifters are unbalanced and may be on the weak side. Ed
Raziel_Brokodar 11-23-05, 01:24 PM	Okay I'm thinking about picking up the eberron campaign book but I have been cautioned by a few most wise friends that it is highly unbalanced. Why so may I ask? (please try to be neutral and raise points of conflict instead of trying to sway me). Your friends must not be very wise.. :P heh, anyway, there's nothing unbalanced about it at all...
Teron Gorefiend 11-23-05, 01:41 PM	There are things in the Ebberron campaign setting which are too good. At the top of the list is psionics, which aren't well balanced with other forms of magic. Divine casters are better healers. Arcane casters have a greater variety of area effect spells. But a well-built psion can replace both far better than a mystic theurge and at lower level. Warforged should be a +1 LA. Period. They have far too many immunties and one of the warforged body feats gives them armor at 1st level that PCs of other races won't achieve for another 5+ levels. Artificers are too good in the hands of a player who knows what he is doing. You have access to any spell in order to create magic items, like scrolls or potions. With a little downtime and some planning on the part of the artificer, he's going to make things difficult for the DM. Action points are nice in that they eliminate the need for the DM to fudge die rolls when the players are unlucky, but IMO the best use is to auto-stabilize. You don't suffer any more damage and the party isn't distracted from the combat from the need to heal you. The Races of Eberron book dramatically ramps up the power of the Eberron specific races. Without that book, I don't think changelings or shifters are unbalanced and may be on the weak side. Ed As far as I'm concerned you lost all credibility when you said psionics are overpowered. Please go to the Psionics board so they can chew you out. Stoutmeister, I'll just emphasize that you absolutely must read the ECS errata. Notably, it fixes the sharrash (a weapon) and the weretouched master prestige class.
Dougbert 11-23-05, 01:53 PM	There are things in the Ebberron campaign setting which are too good. At the top of the list is psionics, which aren't well balanced with other forms of magic. Divine casters are better healers. Arcane casters have a greater variety of area effect spells. But a well-built psion can replace both far better than a mystic theurge and at lower level. Psionics is used the same way in Eberron as in any other setting and can be optional just as in any other setting. I'll agree that psionics is a flexible system, but a well built psion isn't any more powerful than a well built druid or wizard. Warforged should be a +1 LA. Period. They have far too many immunties and one of the warforged body feats gives them armor at 1st level that PCs of other races won't achieve for another 5+ levels. I've been at the table with many a 'forged character and don't consider the adamantine body feat to be worth a +1LA. It's so front loaded and inflexible (it never comes off, you always have the penalties, and your armor never changes) that it's a drawback almost as often as it is a plus. Besides you wouldn't even consider that feat unless you played a fighter or a cleric. Artificers are too good in the hands of a player who knows what he is doing. You have access to any spell in order to create magic items, like scrolls or potions. With a little downtime and some planning on the part of the artificer, he's going to make things difficult for the DM. Contrary to popular belief an artificer is not going to be producing mass quantities of uber powerful items. He generally has enough cash and xp to keep himself on par with other classes of his level in terms of power but not nearly enough to give everyone matching bracers of armor +6 and rings of regeneration. As for being powerful in the hands of a smart player and giving the DM fits...you've just described every class. Action points are nice in that they eliminate the need for the DM to fudge die rolls when the players are unlucky, but IMO the best use is to auto-stabilize. You don't suffer any more damage and the party isn't distracted from the combat from the need to heal you. Action points are cool. The Races of Eberron book dramatically ramps up the power of the Eberron specific races. Without that book, I don't think changelings or shifters are unbalanced and may be on the weak side. I haven't completely gone through this book yet so I won't comment. I will say that there are several errors and outright contradictions in this book so you may want to double check any info you get from it.
a_psh 11-23-05, 08:41 PM	Sieylianna, In the interests of not being confusing, I'm only addressing the balance-related stuff (i.e. ignoring the stuff about personal preference). At the top of the list is psionics, which aren't well balanced with other forms of magic. Divine casters are better healers. Arcane casters have a greater variety of area effect spells. But a well-built psion can replace both far better than a mystic theurge and at lower level. BS. As people have said, look at the psionics boards. Or, for that matter, look at the cleric's healing capacity vs. the psion's healing capacity (which consists of a hit-point transfer + a self-heal, and even then you get fewer hp per level than a clerical heal). If you think a psion is broken because he can heal pathetically, then I suppose the UMD-using rogue or artificer is broken because he can cure wounds with his crappy CLW wand, too. Healing and nuking? Oh, no, sounds like every divine caster ever! Warforged should be a +1 LA. Period. They have far too many immunties and one of the warforged body feats gives them armor at 1st level that PCs of other races won't achieve for another 5+ levels. Sure. This point is debatable. In other words, I'm agreeing that you have an argument, but I don't think either position is easily superior to the other. I've found warforged to be good front-line warriors, whether as fighters, psychic warriors, or artificers, but I don't really think they're any better than humans or dwarves by the time you get to level 5 or so. So, yeah, point of debate. Most people say they're okay, but there's a lot of disagreement on this one. Artificers are too good in the hands of a player who knows what he is doing. You have access to any spell in order to create magic items, like scrolls or potions. With a little downtime and some planning on the part of the artificer, he's going to make things difficult for the DM. Meh, not really. Artificers are powerful in the hands of a min/maxer who can use any book he pleases and has tons of money to burn. So are wizards. Unless you follow the DMG cost tables to the letter without paying attention to the caveats about making certain items (e.g. rings of true strike), being able to craft your own items really isn't broken. he Races of Eberron book dramatically ramps up the power of the Eberron specific races. Without that book, I don't think changelings or shifters are unbalanced and may be on the weak side. Agreed, mostly. If you use stuff like Shifter Ferocity, the shifter substitution levels, and the tactical feats, I think shifters are definitely overpowered. Basically, Races of Eberron is a lot like the other "Races" books... not too useful in terms of the cultural info ('cept for the kalashtar stuff, which is actually nice), but full of too-easily-abusable crunch. I would say that the changeling race balance isn't too strongly affected by RoE, however. ... To the OP: All in all, there's pretty much nothing broken in the core setting book and nothing worse than the regular splatbooks in the Eberron-specific splatbooks. There's nothing broken about the setting really, as long as you treat the extra supplement material the same way you treat vanilla D&D splatbooks - i.e. with a modicum of caution and concern. But, as stated, you need to be more specific to get good responses.
a_psh 11-23-05, 08:49 PM	Dial-up. Boo. Please ignore.
Wren 11-24-05, 01:44 PM	I'd say you'd need to look at the book and decide for yourself. When it comes down to it... other peoples oppinions are just that... oppinions for all their honesty. I always find there are as many people who say negative things as there are positive things being said about Eberron. The best way to decide it to go off of what you like yourself. If you decide once you've sat down to read the book... (often easily done in a Barnes & Noble or Books a Million) to buy the book and join our crusade for Eberron goodness... there are many here who will welcome you with open arms.
Stoutmeister 11-24-05, 02:56 PM	Well, I'm going to try and convince my group, I've been looking at some of the art (okay it tells me nothing of game balance but I like pretty pictures) and I really like these few: Piccie 1 (http://www.adriano-saunders.com/images/trem-relampago.jpg) Piccie 2 (http://www.icv2.com/images/82822Eberron's-City-of-Sharn-md.jpg) This idea may have to rest for a while but I'll keep it in my mind, I really like the look and fluff of the world and in all honesty isn't that just as important as game mechanics. One day I'll have my gnome artificer...one day....
Wren 11-24-05, 03:09 PM	True enough! Look and feel are a BIG part of a world. I hope someday soon you'll have a chance to play that Gnome.
mhacdebhandia 11-24-05, 04:15 PM	In my experience with campaigns containing artificer PC's it doesn't really work out this way. Sure, the typical artificer can create items at half the base cost in gp, but still has to spend xp. The 'artificers give the party double gear' argument is a myth at the table. If for no other reason than that the wealth-by-level tables are absolute - what a PC artificer makes for the party isn't added on top of each PC's wealth according to the table.
Dougbert 11-24-05, 07:04 PM	If for no other reason than that the wealth-by-level tables are absolute - what a PC artificer makes for the party isn't added on top of each PC's wealth according to the table. True, and if a DM gives an artificer, or any character, too many resources (gold, magic, etc) the character will be 'broken'. You can't blame the class here, its just bad DMing.
DBlizzard 11-24-05, 10:58 PM	I think you'll find two areas where there are people pointing to overpowered things in the setting - warforged and artificers. Warforged are often criticized for being too powerful for a LA +0 race. However, what you'll usually find is that people who argue they are too powerful are just looking at them on paper. In play they actually aren't that much more powerful than other LA +0 races. Maybe they could be LA +1/2 in play, IMO, but they really don't play like an LA +1. For those complaining about them who have experienced them, I think most are experienced DMs. They are used to using certain tricks to create obstacles for players, and warforged do often get around them with their immunities. For example, putting in an area where players can't get through because they can't breathe in an area. Warforged ignore it. I ran an adventure with poison on the door, and the players had lost their rogue just minutes beforehand. Fortunately for the party, the warforged opened the door and the trap was moot. So, warforged do require DMs to take different paths to illicit the responses they want for their players. They also need to focus on their weaknesses. Rusting grasp spells & rust monsters create challenges for players. Enforcing the armor check rules is a must. Put a rope across a chasm they must cross and see the warforged "sweat." As for artificers, they certainly can be abused. I've heard of some powergamers taking them and creating some really powerful combinations. If you have a powergamer in your group, you might not want to have them playing the artificer or have some house rules about what can be done. For example, disallowing one from focusing on all the feats from the ECS that reduce the cost, time and experience for creating magic items. Disallowing a lot of feats focussing on a wand blaster.
a_psh 11-24-05, 11:58 PM	As for artificers, they certainly can be abused. I've heard of some powergamers taking them and creating some really powerful combinations. If you have a powergamer in your group, you might not want to have them playing the artificer or have some house rules about what can be done. For example, disallowing one from focusing on all the feats from the ECS that reduce the cost, time and experience for creating magic items. Disallowing a lot of feats focussing on a wand blaster. I disagree. I think what you really want to address are just generally broken metamagic feats from supplementary material, most of which are bad on wizards, too. The crafting-cost-reducing feats shouldn't be a big issue, I think.
Sieylianna 11-25-05, 06:51 PM	As people have said, look at the psionics boards. Or, for that matter, look at the cleric's healing capacity vs. the psion's healing capacity (which consists of a hit-point transfer + a self-heal, and even then you get fewer hp per level than a clerical heal). If you think a psion is broken because he can heal pathetically, then I suppose the UMD-using rogue or artificer is broken because he can cure wounds with his crappy CLW wand, too. Healing and nuking? Oh, no, sounds like every divine caster ever! I've never spent any time on the Psionics boards. Eberron and Character Optimization, yes. Forgotten Realms once in a while. However, I have an 11th level psion in a campaign and they aren't a slouch at healing. Why not? The Psionic Body feat. With that feat, everytime you cherry-pick one of the most broken powers off another psionic class list (energy missile, etc), you not only add the new discipine to your repertoire, but you gain hit points. So all those bonus feats turn into free hit points and more powers. Plus you can use the amulet slot for a constitution item unlike the cleric who needs a periapt of wisdom. You start combat by manifesting vigor. That gives you free hit points to save your life or to use in sucking up damage from another PC. Then you transfer damage, half of it just disappears and the rest comes off your temporary hit points. You can heal your self or hostile empathic transfer to give the damage to your foes. The only drawback is that it is slower than clerical healing and you receive some healing powers slower than a cleric. Ed
a_psh 11-25-05, 09:57 PM	I've never spent any time on the Psionics boards. Eberron and Character Optimization, yes. Forgotten Realms once in a while. However, I have an 11th level psion in a campaign and they aren't a slouch at healing. Why not? The Psionic Body feat. With that feat, everytime you cherry-pick one of the most broken powers off another psionic class list (energy missile, etc), you not only add the new discipine to your repertoire, but you gain hit points. So all those bonus feats turn into free hit points and more powers. Plus you can use the amulet slot for a constitution item unlike the cleric who needs a periapt of wisdom. You start combat by manifesting vigor. That gives you free hit points to save your life or to use in sucking up damage from another PC. Then you transfer damage, half of it just disappears and the rest comes off your temporary hit points. You can heal your self or hostile empathic transfer to give the damage to your foes. The only drawback is that it is slower than clerical healing and you receive some healing powers slower than a cleric. Ed An artificer, bard, rogue, ranger, paladin, druid, or cleric and a wand of cure light wounds can heal everyone else up after battle for pennies on the hit point. Several prestige classes grant arcane casters the ability to learn some curative magic. Paladins and monks can use lay on hands to heal. A dread necromancer can negative-energy heal undead a few hit points at a time. An artificer can make cheap potions that allow other PCs to heal themselves without him wasting actions to do it in combat. Tons and tons of different characters can heal. At 11th level, a cleric can use the heal spell to grant 110 hit points in a single standard action. Others can heal a few hp at a time. A well-tuned psion or wilder might even get close to the cleric's healing rate. I don't see how it's a problem. Clerics and druids, the healing classes that psions are so terribly edging out of their niche here, are already amazing melee fighters, excellent buffers, and even tolerable nukers. In light of this, I really don't see how being able to do more than just nuke suddenly overpowers the psion.
AlDaRoN Arg 11-28-05, 07:45 AM	I've never spent any time on the Psionics boards. Eberron and Character Optimization, yes. Forgotten Realms once in a while. However, I have an 11th level psion in a campaign and they aren't a slouch at healing. Why not? The Psionic Body feat. With that feat, everytime you cherry-pick one of the most broken powers off another psionic class list (energy missile, etc), you not only add the new discipine to your repertoire, but you gain hit points. So all those bonus feats turn into free hit points and more powers. Plus you can use the amulet slot for a constitution item unlike the cleric who needs a periapt of wisdom. You start combat by manifesting vigor. That gives you free hit points to save your life or to use in sucking up damage from another PC. Then you transfer damage, half of it just disappears and the rest comes off your temporary hit points. You can heal your self or hostile empathic transfer to give the damage to your foes. The only drawback is that it is slower than clerical healing and you receive some healing powers slower than a cleric. Ed Psionic Body is a good feat for a low level psion but as you level up it becomes less and less useful, a human 11th level psion has 8 feats so he can have +16hp tops so you are wasting a feat for that when you can use a 4pp vigor for 20hp. Psionics aren't broken if you think so go read the psionics board so they can crush your argument.
Pinky's brain 11-28-05, 07:52 AM	Psionics is no more broken than magic ... but I wouldn't call it not broken :) As for the setting being balanced, if you don't very harshly limit what the artificer can do with metamagic spell trigger you can run into some problems. Also if as a DM you are used to PCs only getting the magic items getting the items you give them then you are in for a big shock. With those caveats I don't think Eberron is more unbalanced than other settings, lets face it ... Faerun is still the king of unbalanced splatbooks.
ENHenry 11-28-05, 09:04 AM	Stoutmeister, From personal play experience, I'd say that no Eberron option is more powerful than any other D&D 3.5 optional book. There are some differences, mostly around action points, and taking out feats that use action points doesn't leave many feats left. With respect to Warforged, the debate goes back and forth endlessly on them, but in my experience, their list of immunities really don't come up much in play; even when they do, there are still other party members to be considered, so there is threat where debilitating effects come into play. Artificers are perfectly good PCs, but the only glaring problem I've noticed is this: DMs, DO NOT LET YOUR PLAYERS TALK YOU INTO ANY USE MAGIC DEVICE SKILL BOOSTING ITEMS. Otherwise, artificers will be reliably casting effects that are 5 or more higher levels than them. Artificers are perfectly good even when there's a device failure chance, because these items are not used up. They've worked very well for us.