Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Roscoe_Greenbottle 01-22-07, 12:30 PM	Please. No more books. I don't want everything detailed or even just fleshed out. I'm to cheap to buy the books, but one of my friends/players has most of them and I like having a lot of room to work on things. If the Last War is timelined then I can't make history for it to effect my modern campaign. The Secrets of Sarlona book is going to take all the secrets out of sarlona. Fleshing out the monster nations will just ruin the ability to give the monster's your feel. I know that I can still run the world my way, but I'll still feel like the details will be wrong.
SSj3goblin 01-22-07, 12:35 PM	Good idea! Let's deprive thousands of DM's of highly useful material so YOUR game won't be compromised by a player that knows more about the setting than you do. That or just use your Authority as a DM to decided to what extent cannon influences your Eberron.
Nived 01-22-07, 12:35 PM	Secrets of Xen'drik hardly took the mystery away from that continant. Also, if there are no more books the setting dies. Also WotC is a business... So really... there are going to be more books.
Amaril 01-22-07, 12:37 PM	Please. No more books. I don't want everything detailed or even just fleshed out. I'm to cheap to buy the books, but one of my friends/players has most of them and I like having a lot of room to work on things. If the Last War is timelined then I can't make history for it to effect my modern campaign. The Secrets of Sarlona book is going to take all the secrets out of sarlona. Fleshing out the monster nations will just ruin the ability to give the monster's your feel. I know that I can still run the world my way, but I'll still feel like the details will be wrong. Eh, you need to build up the confidence to say to yourself, "This is how X is done in my version of the setting." If you can say that to yourself with a convincing tone, then you will be able to say it comfortable enough to your players. Just let them know that while they read a book and have a particular understanding of a concept in the setting, it's not necessarily how it applies in your setting. In addition, you also need to invite the player to explore the possibilities within your campaign rather than restrict them. Don't be afraid to answer "maybe" when he asks about something in particular. Let the person know how he can apply what he would like to do or what his character would know. If you have a certain concept of how aspects are detailed in your version, make a quick and dirty mental table of Knowledge checks and encourage the players to invest ranks in those skills. If it's general knowledge that anyone would know, then tell them.
Kaizer_Ryu 01-22-07, 12:47 PM	Here's my :twocents: : Eberron Books = Canon only as far as you want Seriously, you shouldn't care if your player has read all the books any more than you should care how any other DM runs the setting. The books, as I see it, give only one interpretation of how things could pan out. It's like the writers ran a campaign and decided to tell everyone else about it in novel form. Don't like something that happened in a novel? Never happened. End of story, so to speak. For that matter, don't like something the way it was described in Secrets of Xendric, Secrets of Sarlona, Dragonmarked, Faiths of Eberron, or even the ECS? It didn't happen that way. You are the DM. You run the game. If certain elements don't fit with how you plan to run the campign, then CHANGE them. If your player is upset about you messing with canon, remind him/her to keep an open mind and that this is a game. So long as it's fun, who cares?
DarkWarriorKarg 01-22-07, 02:05 PM	Good idea! Let's deprive thousands of DM's of highly useful material so YOUR game won't be compromised by a player that knows more about the setting than you do. That or just use your Authority as a DM to decided to what extent cannon influences your Eberron. What he said. To the OP: WotC is a business. They will publish. I am a customer, I will buy. Your request is, in essence, telling everyone on this board how to play, i.e.: you don't need it, therefore we don't need it. I'm to cheap to buy the books, Then either 1) Stop being cheap or 2) Borrow the books from a source or 3) Learn to assert, instead of pleading anonymously on a message board. but one of my friends/players has most of them and I like having a lot of room to work on things. Gee, here's a source. You also might want to work on communicating with your players and ask them what they'd like to see in your game.
Roscoe_Greenbottle 01-22-07, 02:19 PM	Okay I'm sorry. You really don't have to attack me. I'm not actually cheap. I'm to young to have a white slip so I can't even get a job, and my family's restraunt isn't making a profit yet so I can't afford anything else but the core and baybe 1 or 2 more. Your sig say's your old school, I'm barley in highschool. I apologize and acknowledge I was wrong.
Amaril 01-22-07, 02:25 PM	Okay I'm sorry. You really don't have to attack me. I'm not actually cheap. I'm to young to have a white slip so I can't even get a job, and my family's restraunt isn't making a profit yet so I can't afford anything else but the core and baybe 1 or 2 more. Your sig say's your old school, I'm barley in highschool. I apologize and acknowledge I was wrong. You weren't wrong, and no apologies are necessary. Some forum members have a tendency to attack rather than to facilitate. Your difficulties are understandable, but the solutions come with experience. I faced similar issues when I first started DMing. I was too busy being concerned with canon and it sucked all the fun out of the game. Recently, I've learned to lean back in the chair and just go with what seems to be fun, because in the end, that's the point of the game. Otherwise, you'll burn yourself out really fast trying to be to strict with your own world.
PoeticJustice 01-22-07, 03:32 PM	Roscoe, I can empathize. And for the record, I truthfully think you're right. Wizards should make half as many Eberron books as they do.
goblin_pride 01-22-07, 06:22 PM	Roscoe, I can empathize. And for the record, I truthfully think you're right. Wizards should make half as many Eberron books as they do. Pardon me for pointing this out, but if they produce less, they make less in profits. Yes, I'd like to see them produce high-quality materials with more content by the original creator but ultimately that will drive the price of those materials up. It's better for WotC to produce smaller books with a more moderate price and have a broader base to draw from in the ledger. I know it's a hard pill to swallow, but you can pick and choose which books to buy. Personally, I have books on my shelf that I could quite easily do without. Eberron is one of the best stand-alone campaigns I've seen in quite a few years of playing, all you really need is the ECS and you're set. Buy the ones that picque your interest and ignore the rest, you don't need them.
PoeticJustice 01-24-07, 02:49 PM	I would agree with you, but for the face that a couple books that could have been outstanding were botched due to carelessness and text that somehow felt "forced". I feel this way about 5 Nations, Magic of Eberron, and Faiths of Eberron.
From_Khyber 01-24-07, 05:07 PM	Well, here's an idea. You don't like the Eberron sourcebooks? Either stop playing the game, or simply don't purchase the books. I don't see the problem here, honestly. By encouraging WoTC to cease their production of Eberron books (not that it ever would ever have any avail, but still), you berob THOUSANDS of other DM's the opportunity of getting their needed insight from the creators. I, for one, find that the production-rate of Eberron material is WAY TOO low, seeing as how succesful and interesting the setting is. That said, I'll cut to the point: what problem lies there in a moderate production of Eberron material? You can always change anything you happen to dislike. It's YOUR Eberron - do with it as you please, no matter what the official records may state! You are the master - the books merely supply you with potential ideas and suggestions, clearly acting as a source of help, rather than strict rules that can't be changed, whatsoever.
PoeticJustice 01-25-07, 03:48 PM	I think: 1) Not every 5 foot square of Eberron needs to be mapped out. 2) I think a lot of the ideas they publish for Eberron are great, but telling the writers "you need to write x pages of material about y subject" is a terrible way to run a creative enterprise, and that some of the books are beginning to reflect that. 3) There's already such an immense body of Eberron material that the fanbase wouldn't suffer from a slowing of production. 4) Fringe subjects, such as the upcoming book on the last war, are better left for Dragon articles. 5) I maintain that Eberron is not a particularly popular line to begin with, and that increasing production to generate revenue is dumb idea when you've got trouble moving the stuff you've already got.
Cabral 01-25-07, 03:53 PM	The format of Eberron books is not a cheap format. I suspect that if Eberron was unpopular or that "fringe" material was not pulling in profits, we'd see a policy change by now.
UnderworldLord 01-25-07, 05:24 PM	Personally, I don't read the dragon articles. I would like a slow down on the Eberron stuff, its hard to keep up with, but, what else can they do to generate profit? I'm about three behind in the novels, and most of this year's worth behind in books, and I don't just mean the Eberron ones. If there was another way for them to generate continuous profit, I'd go for it, but adding another setting steals from themselves on this, and keeping going on this one will eventually make it too static a setting. So whats the company to do? Branch out into something else maybe? Wizards of the Coast swim wear anyone?
Amaril 01-25-07, 06:15 PM	I say keep 'em coming. I'm not very fond of reading novels as I'm not very good at reading long chunks of text as I struggle with adult ADD. I do enjoy the source books immensely though because they chunk the content enough that I can more easily digest it. In all honesty, I could have used Secrets of Sarlona sooner than Explorer's Handbook, Dragonmarked, Secrets of Xen'drik, and Magic of Eberron. I look forward to The Forge of War as I've had several players who created characters that fought in the Last War, but they had no idea in which direction to take that or how to develop that further. I've been wanting Dragons of Eberron for a long while, too, specifically because I'd like a better understanding of how the various dragons of Eberron interact with the setting; I also hope it will facilitate the use of books such as Races of the Dragon, Dragon Magic, and Draconomicon. I also don't read the source books just for my game, I enjoy reading about the setting. It's like reading a story without someone narrating about a small handful of characters' experiences. I can create my own stories about any number of characters in my head.
Vharuck 01-25-07, 06:41 PM	I say keep 'em coming. I'm not very fond of reading novels as I'm not very good at reading long chunks of text as I struggle with adult ADD. I do enjoy the source books immensely though because they chunk the content enough that I can more easily digest it. In all honesty, I could have used Secrets of Sarlona sooner than Explorer's Handbook, Dragonmarked, Secrets of Xen'drik, and Magic of Eberron. I look forward to The Forge of War as I've had several players who created characters that fought in the Last War, but they had no idea in which direction to take that or how to develop that further. I've been wanting Dragons of Eberron for a long while, too, specifically because I'd like a better understanding of how the various dragons of Eberron interact with the setting; I also hope it will facilitate the use of books such as Races of the Dragon, Dragon Magic, and Draconomicon. I also don't read the source books just for my game, I enjoy reading about the setting. It's like reading a story without someone narrating about a small handful of characters' experiences. I can create my own stories about any number of characters in my head. I know what you mean. My girlfriend was amazing enough to not only accept my love for roleplaying (she even played in a couple games I DMed and a D&D event at the local comic store), but she still gives me funny looks since I read my sourcebooks for pleasure. My favorite part of fantasy novels was the details about the society and its history. Now, like you said, I get to have that without a single plot or character cast.
Moebius 01-25-07, 09:41 PM	I know what you mean. My girlfriend was amazing enough to not only accept my love for roleplaying (she even played in a couple games I DMed and a D&D event at the local comic store), but she still gives me funny looks since I read my sourcebooks for pleasure. My favorite part of fantasy novels was the details about the society and its history. Now, like you said, I get to have that without a single plot or character cast. I agree with this as well. I drive school bus for an income lately and I've been working my way through Players Guide to Eberron and loving it between routes. The elementary school students who saw it were asking "what kind of game is that? how do you win? can I see it?" No, sit down.
Artector 01-25-07, 10:13 PM	I agree with this as well. I drive school bus for an income lately and I've been working my way through Players Guide to Eberron and loving it between routes. The elementary school students who saw it were asking "what kind of game is that? how do you win? can I see it?" No, sit down. I wanna ride your bus! Of the books I've bought for Eberron there's only a couple I didn't care for, the books save me time and entertain me. I know I'm not buying them all, but there's enough out there that I can stay satisfied with what I have.
UnderworldLord 01-25-07, 10:23 PM	I completely agree. I love reading the books just for the sake of reading them, mostly because no DM I know will DM an Eberron Setting. Of course, I love reading in general, so yea...
SSj3goblin 01-25-07, 11:58 PM	5) I maintain that Eberron is not a particularly popular line to begin with, and that increasing production to generate revenue is dumb idea when you've got trouble moving the stuff you've already got. :rofl: This is one of the times where a smiley do more than words.
Orion Polaris 01-26-07, 02:12 AM	If we're going to get more books can we at least cut down on the crappy feats that no one in their right minds(even DM's looking to spice up an encounter!) would take? A lot of the recent Eberron books suffer from this. I'd prefer the space go to something useful rather than feats that give a minor bonus to survival checks when in a swamp... (I'm looking at you PGtE, king of useless feats!)
PoeticJustice 01-27-07, 03:31 AM	If we're going to get more books can we at least cut down on the crappy feats that no one in their right minds(even DM's looking to spice up an encounter!) would take? A lot of the recent Eberron books suffer from this. I'd prefer the space go to something useful rather than feats that give a minor bonus to survival checks when in a swamp... (I'm looking at you PGtE, king of useless feats!) I gotta disagree there. If anything, the feats might have been a little too good. I'm more concerned with stuff like Magic of Eberron, in which the authors built an expansive feat tree to satisfy the needs of a single prestige class. Although I liked the class, the feats were kind of hinky, and I don't think many got much use out of them. To a lesser extent, Dragonmarked also suffered this flaw, but the good stuff in Dragonmarked made up for it.