Noble Titles in Eberron [Archive] - Wizards Community

Noble Titles in Eberron [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Tait Ransom
10-16-05, 10:11 AM Are the noble titles in Eberron, especially the Five Nations, typical of European nobilty (Baron, Count, etc) or are there new titles specific to the setting?

I'm not remembering any new ones, but was curious. Thanks!
Beleriphon
10-16-05, 11:23 AM I don't think any new titles have been specifically created for the setting. For the most part the NPCs have actaully real world titles. The only one that I can think of off hand, beside kings or queens, would be Baron Merrix d'Cannith.

At some level there also seems to be the use of military rank as title, for example one of the Sharn Inquisitives uses a rogue colonel as a plot hook, and it's implied that he's a member of the nobility.
Deadguy
10-16-05, 12:18 PM From what's been given so far, the only noble title we have is Lord - never with a rank attached*. The leaders of the Houses are accorded the title of Baron. So basically you decide. Either use British or similar titles, or follow the same path as me, and treat nobility as an either/or thing. The only Noble title in my Eberron game is Lord (strictly Baron), though different Lords have different degrees of power. I attribute this to the levelling effect of the Galifaran conquest. It made for a sharp divide in the Kingdom of Galifar, when there was a King and Princes of the royal blood, and Lords, of lesser blood.

*Karrnath has Warlords, though the exact nature of that title is unclear.
Siran Dunmorgan
10-16-05, 12:41 PM The title "Baron" does not refer to the governing nobility at all, on Khorvaire. It refers specifically to the head of an enclave of a dragonmarked House.

"Warlord" is a military title, approximately equivalent to "Field Marshal" in more or less modern European terms, but with feudal overtones similar to Duke/Duchess. It is used in all of the Five Nations, not just Karrnath, though the Warlords there have a more prominent place in the government.

Titles of royalty, e.g. King/Queen, Prince/Princess appear to be intact.

We have most often seen the generic title "Lord" used, but there is implication that the noble titles Count/Countess and Duke/Duchess are in use in the Five Nations—I believe, though I cannot confirm because I don't have the books with me, that "Count" has been used with respect to certain courtiers of Karrnath, and I seem to recall that there has been some mention of dukes or dukedoms in Breland.

"Lord" is generally what we see with respect to what European peerage would call Baron or Baronet.

For what it's worth, the other title we see used with the dragonmarked Houses is "Patriarch/Matriarch" for the overall head of the House.

Outside the Five Nations:

"Lhesh" is a goblin title usually translated "High Warlord."

"Lath" is a Talenta honorific; the exact translation is uncertain, but it seems to be something like "chief", the way it's used in movies about Indians in the Old West (as opposed to the way native americans actually use the term).

"Lathon" is a higher-ranking Talenta honorific; the closest translation based on the model above would be "Chieftain", or possibly "Chief of Chiefs".

"Daughter"—with a capital "D"—has a very specific meaning with respect to the nobility of Droaam.

—Siran Dunmorgan
Zedium
10-16-05, 04:45 PM Don't forget that there are the ir' and d' prefixes. The ir' prefix signifies nobility. (So ir'Carti would be of the noble family of Carti) and the d' prefix signifies a member of a dragonmarked house (so d'Cannith. The d' is always followed by the actual name of the house, even though the original surname of a character might have been different).
taski
10-16-05, 05:08 PM Don't forget that there are the ir' and d' prefixes. The ir' prefix signifies nobility. (So ir'Carti would be of the noble family of Carti) and the d' prefix signifies a member of a dragonmarked house (so d'Cannith. The d' is always followed by the actual name of the house, even though the original surname of a character might have been different).

Not for any ol' member of a dragonmarked house, the d' prefix signifies that the member of the house has a dragonmark. Family members who don't have a mark are just "Cannith" and so on.
Tait Ransom
10-17-05, 10:38 AM Thanks, folks! I'll probably just go with British titles. I think they'll work well in Breland.

Oh, and Taski ... the art on your site is pretty darn good! Mind if I swipe a pic or two for the Sharn Inquisitive I write up for my group?
damroche
10-17-05, 02:59 PM Not for any ol' member of a dragonmarked house, the d' prefix signifies that the member of the house has a dragonmark. Family members who don't have a mark are just "Cannith" and so on.

Careful there, you're both right and wrong. Not any ol' member, true -- just those born in the house. But there's no dragonmark requirement. ECS states "those born of the blood of draonmarked houses add a d' to their surnames". One assumes that someone married into the house or invited to the house would have the house name without the d', whether they were marked or not.
Shadowalk Nimblefeet
10-17-05, 06:59 PM Careful there, you're both right and wrong. Not any ol' member, true -- just those born in the house. But there's no dragonmark requirement. ECS states "those born of the blood of draonmarked houses add a d' to their surnames". One assumes that someone married into the house or invited to the house would have the house name without the d', whether they were marked or not.

I think this has since changed. From what I understand, it is in fact only blood members of the dragonmarked houses who boast a dragonmark that are eligible to use the d' honourific. I have seen this in the Ask Keith Baker thread on multiple occasions, and I think it may have been in the errata for 'Shadows of the Last War'. I think, though I could very well be wrong.
realdm
10-18-05, 04:54 AM 5 nations, breland, xandrar.

there is a countess. and i think i read somewhere that ruken ir clarn is a duke
Grumgarr
10-18-05, 05:43 AM I think the Eberron-in-a-nutshell appendix to City of Towers (the novel) explicitly links the d' prefix with being dragonmarked.

I like that the name includes an explicit reference to the individual's being marked (and therefore their increased status in the house) so that's what I use.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Tait Ransom 10-16-05, 10:11 AM	Are the noble titles in Eberron, especially the Five Nations, typical of European nobilty (Baron, Count, etc) or are there new titles specific to the setting? I'm not remembering any new ones, but was curious. Thanks!
Beleriphon 10-16-05, 11:23 AM	I don't think any new titles have been specifically created for the setting. For the most part the NPCs have actaully real world titles. The only one that I can think of off hand, beside kings or queens, would be Baron Merrix d'Cannith. At some level there also seems to be the use of military rank as title, for example one of the Sharn Inquisitives uses a rogue colonel as a plot hook, and it's implied that he's a member of the nobility.
Deadguy 10-16-05, 12:18 PM	From what's been given so far, the only noble title we have is Lord - never with a rank attached. The leaders of the Houses are accorded the title of Baron. So basically you decide. Either use British or similar titles, or follow the same path as me, and treat nobility as an either/or thing. The only Noble title in my Eberron game is Lord (strictly Baron), though different Lords have different degrees of power. I attribute this to the levelling effect of the Galifaran conquest. It made for a sharp divide in the Kingdom of Galifar, when there was a King and Princes of the royal blood, and Lords, of lesser blood. Karrnath has Warlords, though the exact nature of that title is unclear.
Siran Dunmorgan 10-16-05, 12:41 PM	The title "Baron" does not refer to the governing nobility at all, on Khorvaire. It refers specifically to the head of an enclave of a dragonmarked House. "Warlord" is a military title, approximately equivalent to "Field Marshal" in more or less modern European terms, but with feudal overtones similar to Duke/Duchess. It is used in all of the Five Nations, not just Karrnath, though the Warlords there have a more prominent place in the government. Titles of royalty, e.g. King/Queen, Prince/Princess appear to be intact. We have most often seen the generic title "Lord" used, but there is implication that the noble titles Count/Countess and Duke/Duchess are in use in the Five Nations—I believe, though I cannot confirm because I don't have the books with me, that "Count" has been used with respect to certain courtiers of Karrnath, and I seem to recall that there has been some mention of dukes or dukedoms in Breland. "Lord" is generally what we see with respect to what European peerage would call Baron or Baronet. For what it's worth, the other title we see used with the dragonmarked Houses is "Patriarch/Matriarch" for the overall head of the House. Outside the Five Nations: "Lhesh" is a goblin title usually translated "High Warlord." "Lath" is a Talenta honorific; the exact translation is uncertain, but it seems to be something like "chief", the way it's used in movies about Indians in the Old West (as opposed to the way native americans actually use the term). "Lathon" is a higher-ranking Talenta honorific; the closest translation based on the model above would be "Chieftain", or possibly "Chief of Chiefs". "Daughter"—with a capital "D"—has a very specific meaning with respect to the nobility of Droaam. —Siran Dunmorgan
Zedium 10-16-05, 04:45 PM	Don't forget that there are the ir' and d' prefixes. The ir' prefix signifies nobility. (So ir'Carti would be of the noble family of Carti) and the d' prefix signifies a member of a dragonmarked house (so d'Cannith. The d' is always followed by the actual name of the house, even though the original surname of a character might have been different).
taski 10-16-05, 05:08 PM	Don't forget that there are the ir' and d' prefixes. The ir' prefix signifies nobility. (So ir'Carti would be of the noble family of Carti) and the d' prefix signifies a member of a dragonmarked house (so d'Cannith. The d' is always followed by the actual name of the house, even though the original surname of a character might have been different). Not for any ol' member of a dragonmarked house, the d' prefix signifies that the member of the house has a dragonmark. Family members who don't have a mark are just "Cannith" and so on.
Tait Ransom 10-17-05, 10:38 AM	Thanks, folks! I'll probably just go with British titles. I think they'll work well in Breland. Oh, and Taski ... the art on your site is pretty darn good! Mind if I swipe a pic or two for the Sharn Inquisitive I write up for my group?
damroche 10-17-05, 02:59 PM	Not for any ol' member of a dragonmarked house, the d' prefix signifies that the member of the house has a dragonmark. Family members who don't have a mark are just "Cannith" and so on. Careful there, you're both right and wrong. Not any ol' member, true -- just those born in the house. But there's no dragonmark requirement. ECS states "those born of the blood of draonmarked houses add a d' to their surnames". One assumes that someone married into the house or invited to the house would have the house name without the d', whether they were marked or not.
Shadowalk Nimblefeet 10-17-05, 06:59 PM	Careful there, you're both right and wrong. Not any ol' member, true -- just those born in the house. But there's no dragonmark requirement. ECS states "those born of the blood of draonmarked houses add a d' to their surnames". One assumes that someone married into the house or invited to the house would have the house name without the d', whether they were marked or not. I think this has since changed. From what I understand, it is in fact only blood members of the dragonmarked houses who boast a dragonmark that are eligible to use the d' honourific. I have seen this in the Ask Keith Baker thread on multiple occasions, and I think it may have been in the errata for 'Shadows of the Last War'. I think, though I could very well be wrong.
realdm 10-18-05, 04:54 AM	5 nations, breland, xandrar. there is a countess. and i think i read somewhere that ruken ir clarn is a duke
Grumgarr 10-18-05, 05:43 AM	I think the Eberron-in-a-nutshell appendix to City of Towers (the novel) explicitly links the d' prefix with being dragonmarked. I like that the name includes an explicit reference to the individual's being marked (and therefore their increased status in the house) so that's what I use.