novel discussion -where? [Archive] - Wizards Community

novel discussion -where? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
DMR
03-08-05, 01:39 PM Okay - I've read "CIty of Towers" and I want to talk about it - but I understand that it's not allowed here... so where, exactly, IS it allowed? I know you guys are talking about it somewhere - just point me in the right direction, please?
nyysjan
03-08-05, 01:45 PM it isn't allowed :(
there is even a sticky thread where it says that there are to be no book threads :)
so cease and desist or the Wizo's shall descent upon you like an army of warforged berserkers :P
Kid SixXx
03-08-05, 01:53 PM I usually hit SKR's msg board or the forums at ENworld.

Not sure about the details of the novel discussion ban, but if I had to point a finger of blame, it's probably be at the FR Novels board where some of the posters didn't quite use a respectable amount of tact or diplomacy in their critiques.

Those that can write, write. Those that can't write, criticize. ;)
motorfirebox
03-08-05, 01:54 PM that's a pretty retarded restriction. it'd be nice to see some why's and wherefores. they won't make it less retarded, but at least it will feel more like an official policy and less like the oppressive hand of The Man.

edit: i really, really hope it's not what sixxx says. overreactive thread burning != cool.
Kid SixXx
03-08-05, 02:04 PM that's a pretty retarded restriction. it'd be nice to see some why's and wherefores. they won't make it less retarded, but at least it will feel more like an official policy and less like the oppressive hand of The Man.

It's not terribly retarded, since quite a few of the RAS threads consisted of "Die Drizzt!" and really didn't have any serious merit, nor discussed the material in a reasonable fashion.

Novel discussions usually bred flame wars, more importantly, they bred flame wars between forum posters and established WoTC novelist who had better things to do with their time than respond to people with poor social skills, but felt compelled to reply in the hopes of appearing accessible to the folks that liked their work.

Sad really, as folks like Tom Costa and Elaine Cunningham were really nice people with a wealth of info to share, not only about their individual work but about writing prose in general.

Elaine use to literally hold writing clinics on the boards. I really miss them..
motorfirebox
03-08-05, 02:12 PM easiest way to fix that is to ban posters, not ban topics. granted, i'm not running the boards, so maybe that's not feasible for some reason--too many idiots, maybe. but from here, that sounds like they're kicking everybody in the pants for the actions of a relative few.
Isran_Imrador
03-08-05, 02:34 PM Well i talk about it here! (http://worldsofdnd.com/forum/index.php) (so is Keith)
lukelightning
03-08-05, 03:16 PM Maybe it's like Fight Club.

The first rule of Novel Club is don't talk about Novel Club.
motorfirebox
03-08-05, 03:18 PM "you wrote about my ear?"
Knuckles
03-08-05, 05:43 PM I suggest threatening WotC that we'll make Keith shave his beard if they don't let us discuss novels. And since we all are very fond of "City of Towers", I don't think that flame wars are the issue. But there is always the "no exception to the rules" rule :D
Edymnion
03-08-05, 05:54 PM Look, bottom line is that the last time we had a Novels board, there was relentless personal attacks against the writers, flame wars, and I do believe a few people wound up being threatened with lawsuits.

We had a Novel board, and all people did was abuse it, abused the writers, and all around made complete asses out of themselves to the point that they completely and utterly ticked off the writers.

And I've been on the recieving end of that sort of thing recently, and I can tell you how infuriating it is when someone just decides they are going to haunt your every step and tell you how crappy something you made is, with no real reasoning behind it other than "I just don't like it. There's nothing wrong with it, I just don't like the way you did it, so I'm going to be an ass to you!"

We had our chance, and we failed.
Suck it up, and move on.
Knuckles
03-08-05, 06:13 PM Not to take a different position here, but can't this problem be solved with good moderators and unlimited ban list? I know that when it comes to novels everybody is a professional critic, but isn't that what moderators are all about?
talion09
03-08-05, 06:42 PM IMHO, banning posters doesn't work too well.

1. You can ban someone, but they can be back on in a new profile in a few minutes if they so choose.

2. You can ban an IP. But I know that wouldn't work against me, because I have a floating IP address. So if I felt like flaming I could still do it, but banning my IP would only slow me down.

3. You can ban a whole ISP. But then you have issues of killing off legitmate fans who didn't do anything wrong except for sharing an ISP with a troll.

4. Or you can lock threads that start to attract trolls. But what if it was a legitmate thread that got hijacked? The mods then have even more work to do to sort out and delete the flames.

Besides, we all know trolls like to be fed, and banning them is just more negative attention for them to thrive on.

Banning the topics that seem to be magnets for trolls is a bad option, but unfortunately there isn't really any good option if we have trolls.

Edit: Oh, and yes, we do have trolls on the eberron boards. I saw threads that were ripping keith for all sorts of style issues. And then a few days later we got the sticky about the ban.
zambuka
03-08-05, 08:36 PM that's a pretty retarded restriction. it'd be nice to see some why's and wherefores. they won't make it less retarded, but at least it will feel more like an official policy and less like the oppressive hand of The Man.

There is another really good reason for banning novel discussions.
There are quite a few of us on these forums that have not yet had a chance to read these novels, either because of lack of funds or , in my case, they are simply not available in any local bookstores and ordering online is not really desireable.

The problems that come up is that a lot of people who post about the novels do not give any indication that they are going to reveal spoilers, some of you are good and actually use the word spoiler in your topic title but some are totally ignorant of the need to give any warning at all.

In more than a few of the cases that have already appeared on this board the poster gave no indication that they were even talking about a novel until about half way through their post. It is made even worse when novels share similar titles to source books, eg Sharn:City of Towers source book and The City of Towers novel, I mean just which one are you talking about when a post starts with something like "City of towers Question".

I know there are other reasons for banning posts about novels but I would be surprised if this wasn't on that list.

Edit: as an additional note I think there should be some forum for discussing these novels just not the ones directly linked to gaming in Eberron

Edit #2: rereading this I realise it comes across as a bit of a whinge, but I hope my point is stil made
ORC_Paradox
03-08-05, 09:01 PM Maybe it's like Fight Club.

The first rule of Novel Club is don't talk about Novel Club.

:plotting:
DMR
03-09-05, 10:15 AM I have no problem with the fact the WoTC says "no novel discussion here".
It's their board, they can make the rules.

BUT - this isn't the only message board on the net. I'm sure people are discussing the novels SOMEWHERE other than here. What I was asking for in my original post was not a change in WoTC policy - just a friendly pointer to other boards where novel discussion IS allowed. A few people have done this - Thanks!
ArthurQ
03-09-05, 10:33 AM Might I suggest that you use the Eberron fan Forum run by Siberys.com for Novel Discussion?

www.siberys.com/forums
motorfirebox
03-09-05, 05:46 PM There are quite a few of us on these forums that have not yet had a chance to read these novels, either because of lack of funds or , in my case, they are simply not available in any local bookstores and ordering online is not really desireable.
i don't think this is the reason. if it were, there would be a similar ban on discussing any d20 products. this is a gaming board, after all; if there are going to be topic bans that are intended to prevent spoilers, actual gaming products would be the first thing on the list.

IMHO, banning posters doesn't work too well.
heh. back in my less placid days, i ended up getting one-quarter of South Korea (including all of Seoul) banned from a particular board.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
DMR 03-08-05, 01:39 PM	Okay - I've read "CIty of Towers" and I want to talk about it - but I understand that it's not allowed here... so where, exactly, IS it allowed? I know you guys are talking about it somewhere - just point me in the right direction, please?
nyysjan 03-08-05, 01:45 PM	it isn't allowed :( there is even a sticky thread where it says that there are to be no book threads :) so cease and desist or the Wizo's shall descent upon you like an army of warforged berserkers :P
Kid SixXx 03-08-05, 01:53 PM	I usually hit SKR's msg board or the forums at ENworld. Not sure about the details of the novel discussion ban, but if I had to point a finger of blame, it's probably be at the FR Novels board where some of the posters didn't quite use a respectable amount of tact or diplomacy in their critiques. Those that can write, write. Those that can't write, criticize. ;)
motorfirebox 03-08-05, 01:54 PM	that's a pretty retarded restriction. it'd be nice to see some why's and wherefores. they won't make it less retarded, but at least it will feel more like an official policy and less like the oppressive hand of The Man. edit: i really, really hope it's not what sixxx says. overreactive thread burning != cool.
Kid SixXx 03-08-05, 02:04 PM	that's a pretty retarded restriction. it'd be nice to see some why's and wherefores. they won't make it less retarded, but at least it will feel more like an official policy and less like the oppressive hand of The Man. It's not terribly retarded, since quite a few of the RAS threads consisted of "Die Drizzt!" and really didn't have any serious merit, nor discussed the material in a reasonable fashion. Novel discussions usually bred flame wars, more importantly, they bred flame wars between forum posters and established WoTC novelist who had better things to do with their time than respond to people with poor social skills, but felt compelled to reply in the hopes of appearing accessible to the folks that liked their work. Sad really, as folks like Tom Costa and Elaine Cunningham were really nice people with a wealth of info to share, not only about their individual work but about writing prose in general. Elaine use to literally hold writing clinics on the boards. I really miss them..
motorfirebox 03-08-05, 02:12 PM	easiest way to fix that is to ban posters, not ban topics. granted, i'm not running the boards, so maybe that's not feasible for some reason--too many idiots, maybe. but from here, that sounds like they're kicking everybody in the pants for the actions of a relative few.
Isran_Imrador 03-08-05, 02:34 PM	Well i talk about it here! (http://worldsofdnd.com/forum/index.php) (so is Keith)
lukelightning 03-08-05, 03:16 PM	Maybe it's like Fight Club. The first rule of Novel Club is don't talk about Novel Club.
motorfirebox 03-08-05, 03:18 PM	"you wrote about my ear?"
Knuckles 03-08-05, 05:43 PM	I suggest threatening WotC that we'll make Keith shave his beard if they don't let us discuss novels. And since we all are very fond of "City of Towers", I don't think that flame wars are the issue. But there is always the "no exception to the rules" rule :D
Edymnion 03-08-05, 05:54 PM	Look, bottom line is that the last time we had a Novels board, there was relentless personal attacks against the writers, flame wars, and I do believe a few people wound up being threatened with lawsuits. We had a Novel board, and all people did was abuse it, abused the writers, and all around made complete asses out of themselves to the point that they completely and utterly ticked off the writers. And I've been on the recieving end of that sort of thing recently, and I can tell you how infuriating it is when someone just decides they are going to haunt your every step and tell you how crappy something you made is, with no real reasoning behind it other than "I just don't like it. There's nothing wrong with it, I just don't like the way you did it, so I'm going to be an ass to you!" We had our chance, and we failed. Suck it up, and move on.
Knuckles 03-08-05, 06:13 PM	Not to take a different position here, but can't this problem be solved with good moderators and unlimited ban list? I know that when it comes to novels everybody is a professional critic, but isn't that what moderators are all about?
talion09 03-08-05, 06:42 PM	IMHO, banning posters doesn't work too well. 1. You can ban someone, but they can be back on in a new profile in a few minutes if they so choose. 2. You can ban an IP. But I know that wouldn't work against me, because I have a floating IP address. So if I felt like flaming I could still do it, but banning my IP would only slow me down. 3. You can ban a whole ISP. But then you have issues of killing off legitmate fans who didn't do anything wrong except for sharing an ISP with a troll. 4. Or you can lock threads that start to attract trolls. But what if it was a legitmate thread that got hijacked? The mods then have even more work to do to sort out and delete the flames. Besides, we all know trolls like to be fed, and banning them is just more negative attention for them to thrive on. Banning the topics that seem to be magnets for trolls is a bad option, but unfortunately there isn't really any good option if we have trolls. Edit: Oh, and yes, we do have trolls on the eberron boards. I saw threads that were ripping keith for all sorts of style issues. And then a few days later we got the sticky about the ban.
zambuka 03-08-05, 08:36 PM	that's a pretty retarded restriction. it'd be nice to see some why's and wherefores. they won't make it less retarded, but at least it will feel more like an official policy and less like the oppressive hand of The Man. There is another really good reason for banning novel discussions. There are quite a few of us on these forums that have not yet had a chance to read these novels, either because of lack of funds or , in my case, they are simply not available in any local bookstores and ordering online is not really desireable. The problems that come up is that a lot of people who post about the novels do not give any indication that they are going to reveal spoilers, some of you are good and actually use the word spoiler in your topic title but some are totally ignorant of the need to give any warning at all. In more than a few of the cases that have already appeared on this board the poster gave no indication that they were even talking about a novel until about half way through their post. It is made even worse when novels share similar titles to source books, eg Sharn:City of Towers source book and The City of Towers novel, I mean just which one are you talking about when a post starts with something like "City of towers Question". I know there are other reasons for banning posts about novels but I would be surprised if this wasn't on that list. Edit: as an additional note I think there should be some forum for discussing these novels just not the ones directly linked to gaming in Eberron Edit #2: rereading this I realise it comes across as a bit of a whinge, but I hope my point is stil made
ORC_Paradox 03-08-05, 09:01 PM	Maybe it's like Fight Club. The first rule of Novel Club is don't talk about Novel Club. :plotting:
DMR 03-09-05, 10:15 AM	I have no problem with the fact the WoTC says "no novel discussion here". It's their board, they can make the rules. BUT - this isn't the only message board on the net. I'm sure people are discussing the novels SOMEWHERE other than here. What I was asking for in my original post was not a change in WoTC policy - just a friendly pointer to other boards where novel discussion IS allowed. A few people have done this - Thanks!
ArthurQ 03-09-05, 10:33 AM	Might I suggest that you use the Eberron fan Forum run by Siberys.com for Novel Discussion? www.siberys.com/forums
motorfirebox 03-09-05, 05:46 PM	There are quite a few of us on these forums that have not yet had a chance to read these novels, either because of lack of funds or , in my case, they are simply not available in any local bookstores and ordering online is not really desireable. i don't think this is the reason. if it were, there would be a similar ban on discussing any d20 products. this is a gaming board, after all; if there are going to be topic bans that are intended to prevent spoilers, actual gaming products would be the first thing on the list. IMHO, banning posters doesn't work too well. heh. back in my less placid days, i ended up getting one-quarter of South Korea (including all of Seoul) banned from a particular board.