Only 1 Complaint [Archive] - Wizards Community

Only 1 Complaint [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Taurren
06-26-04, 06:10 PM I've been reading through the ECS and been enjoying almost everything. A detailed history, unique races, new powers, good ( not great) artwork and mobile planes, makes this a great new setting IMHO. I'm excited to see how it plays on the gaming table and looking forward to trying it out very soon.

But IMO, the lack of a good, usable reference map of Khorvaire is a real mistake and a pain to deal with.

Both the front and back inside covers have the same bland map of the 4 main continents, and then there is a 3rd copy of the same 2 page map on pgs 214-215. While the main map of Khorvaire on pg 135 has no reference points aside from general locations of the major regions. None of them help to locate the many rivers, mountains, forests and cities that are spoken about throughout the book. Even worse is that some of the "detailed" nation maps are missing the names of important geographic locations such as mountain ranges and rivers that mark borders. This has forced me to frequently flip back and forth as I try to find exactly where a particular mountain range, forest or lake is located.

I've heard that there will be a map available in an upcoming issue of Dragon, but as I dont usually buy it, it is now another purchase I will need to make to get a complete copy of the setting.

I know that not everyone will feel the same way as I do, but IMO, a useable reference map should be a standard part of any campaign setting. Especially a new setting. And in this area, ECS falls very short.

Aside from that I really like the setting and look forward to using it very soon.
gzombie
06-26-04, 06:45 PM I believe it will be in Dungeon #113 and not in Dragon. That issue will also contain a Eberron adventure.
Doppleganger
06-26-04, 07:23 PM I agree with you and it has been a pain to flip back and forth between the blank map on 135, and the regional maps (which aren't even on the same scale as each other, which can be confusing at first glance). This is probably my only complaint so far as well, everything else has been fantastic. I can't wait to get my hands on the magazine's map. There's a blank continental map available online, which seems quite odd since Khorvaire is described in such exquisite detail in the sourcebook. There's a detailed interactive map online, but just like the book, it's broken up into the same little mismatched chunks and is not a good reference for traveling or looking at the borders between regions. I wonder why this was this done?
Ironwolf1974
06-26-04, 07:44 PM Its made me not buy the book.

I mean what are you thinking?

You make a complete world to adventure in, but no good map?

Faerun, Kingdoms of Kalamar et etc all had fold out maps with huge amounts of detail.

And I didnt have to buy ANYTHING other then the main book.

It really does infuriate me, especially at 40 freaking dollars for one book.

If they dont provide us a free map in the future at some point, I will NOT be buying this book.

Ironwolf
DO or DICE
06-26-04, 08:43 PM It would have been nice to have a fold out or seperate map, but the ones in Dungeon have always been good and as I get it monthly its no big deal for me. But if you don't I can really understand your point.
Gannd
06-27-04, 12:36 AM Originally posted by DO or DICE
It would have been nice to have a fold out or seperate map, but the ones in Dungeon have always been good and as I get it monthly its no big deal for me. But if you don't I can really understand your point.

My local store doesn't carry the mags because no one buys them. So I'm hoping they put it online or with the GM guide.
Geethree
06-27-04, 05:03 AM It really does infuriate me, especially at 40 freaking dollars for one book.$40 for a color 320 page illustrated, high quality hardbound book? $40 sounds fair to me.

The lack of a big map is a bit frustrating, though I can't say it's been too great a hindrance for me so far (one session into my very first campaign, though that's not saying much). My biggest problem is that the small-scale maps don't seem to precisely match up with the large-scale, continent map. Some of the geographical features are slightly off, that kind of thing.

I'd probably buy a Dungeon magazine simply for the Eberron map, though, as I like being able to lay a big map out in front of me as I plan my games.
Ironwolf1974
06-27-04, 05:10 AM $40 dollars for a 320 page hardbound book is alot of money.

Of course I think that new games that come out for 50 to 60 dollars are pretty outrageous to.
Bluebrush
06-27-04, 08:07 AM I think a web enhancement would be useful.

Since it'd have to be printed out on A4 and taped together, for those of us without A2 printers, there would still be some incentive to buy the issue of Dragon/Dungeon/whatever and get the spiffy "real" version.
Stouthammer
06-27-04, 03:24 PM Originally posted by Ironwolf1974

If they dont provide us a free map in the future at some point, I will NOT be buying this book.

Ironwolf

Then I guess you won't be buying the book, because I don't see a free map coming forth as especially likely. The book is a very nice book, and I think worth the $40. But if you want the map included for that $40, here's a little tip that might end your complaint. There's a certain online bookseller that virtually everyone has heard of that has this book and many other RPG books at 30% off, and free shipping for orders over $25. 30% off $40 makes it a $28 purchase. So there you go. Free shipping. That saves you $12 plus tax, which depending on where you live might be as much as another $3 on top of that. So this is now $15 you're saving. Far more than the cost of the next Dungeon issue, so now you have the book, the map, an extra adventure, and still paid less than $40 total. And then you can come back to these boards and tell us how the book was worth every single penny.
Taurren
06-27-04, 03:43 PM The book is good and worth the $40 price IMHO.

But to deliberately (yes deliberately) not include a good map, which is an intregal part of any good campaign setting, so that everyone who wants one is forced to buy Dungeon in addition to the ECS ... leaves a sour taste in my mouth.

Forgotten Realms did it right, with a beautiful map in the campaign setting and then additional maps in 4 straight Dragon mags. Hell, I got 2 copies of each magazine just so that I would have an extra copy.

<sheesh> ... In the ECS they have 3 copies of the same bland 2 page map of the major continents, but not a single decent map of Khorvaire in all 300+ pages. For what possible reason would they do this?

As I said in the begining , I like the setting but whoever made the decision to not include a good map, made a mistake.
Stouthammer
06-27-04, 09:16 PM Oh don't get me wrong. I love maps and I agree. A map would have been the crowning achievement in this book, but I've got to say I wasn't really expecting it to have one. (And I am too disappointed at that continental map appearing 3 times in the book. It's 2 pages they could have used on something else in the middle of the book)

But it seems that Wizards of the Coast has decided they're no longer interested in printing maps with books like the ones we got with Forgotten Realms and Oriental Adventures. The Underdark book from what I hear was supposed to have a pull-out map (which would have been wonderful) but the decision was made to make it a 2-page interior map instead.

So we may have seen the last of the D&D books with maps included for a while, which is a shame. But the book is still very worthwhile, and I'm happy just in the knowledge that there will BE a map of Khorvaire. Better one in Dungeon than none at all. (And Dungeon is a fine magazine, and worth the price even without the map)
Taurren
06-27-04, 09:37 PM Its just disappointing that a company which set the benchmark for others to follow when it comes to creating complete campaign settings ( ie FR ) now starts to pedal backwards with this latest creation.

I'm sorry to sound like a broken record, its just that a good map is IMO a cornerstone in the building of an immersive setting, and to see Eberron miss that target as much as it did is really disappointing.

I really hope that the upcoming map in Dungeon is not just a re-print of what we see on pg 135.
Stouthammer
06-27-04, 09:46 PM my personal suspicion is that the map of Khorvaire is going to be the same downloadable map that's on the Eberron website at high resolution, and labeled like the Realms map was, rather than blank like it is on the website.

Of course if you can print out that map on the website on a big enough sheet, it's pretty nice too. You can give it to your players without them knowing where everything is, and you can also use it to mark locations yourself
Axys
06-28-04, 10:51 AM :devil::devil:If someone doesn't want to buy the book, JUST because there is no map (fold-out or HD continental map) then that is thier loss.....yeah, sure it makes it alil tougher on the DM to put everything together in a continental-wide spanning adventure, but unless you're the one DM-ing why would you worry about it? Sure the mini-maps are off on scale to each other, but since the same space per page alotment per nation's map held true throughtout the book, there's not much to whine about. As in the map coming out in Dungeon, My reply to that is YAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I pick up both Dungeon and Dragon each month, from my local gas station (not a gaming store) and have been ripping through both mags lately for Eberron material. Now I have the ECS, will be getting the map and an adventure in the next issue of Dungeon....what more could I want?
MrFilthyIke
06-28-04, 02:41 PM Originally posted by Ironwolf1974
$40 dollars for a 320 page hardbound book is alot of money.

Of course I think that new games that come out for 50 to 60 dollars are pretty outrageous to.

I would say, go to a Barnes and Noble, or Borders, what have you...and find a 320 page, full-color hardback book with similar paper...

And I suspect it'll be in a similar price range (and no, bargain books sections and discount bins don't count...find the new hot seller with these same criteria).
LordofIllusions
06-28-04, 02:51 PM Originally posted by Taurren
The book is good and worth the $40 price IMHO.

But to deliberately (yes deliberately) not include a good map, which is an intregal part of any good campaign setting, so that everyone who wants one is forced to buy Dungeon in addition to the ECS ... leaves a sour taste in my mouth.

Forgotten Realms did it right, with a beautiful map in the campaign setting and then additional maps in 4 straight Dragon mags. Hell, I got 2 copies of each magazine just so that I would have an extra copy.

<sheesh> ... In the ECS they have 3 copies of the same bland 2 page map of the major continents, but not a single decent map of Khorvaire in all 300+ pages. For what possible reason would they do this?

As I said in the begining , I like the setting but whoever made the decision to not include a good map, made a mistake.

WoTC always does this and I see it as a sneaky way to make MORE money by releasing the map, in yet another supplement, later.

I am currently running a v.3.5 Dragonlance campaign and what truly angers me is that Sovereign Press had included a full-color map in the DLCS but WoTC pulled the map at the last minute and left us with all of these chopped up maps in the book. The only settings I have seen with maps are:

1. Forgotten Realms

...and...

2. That corny behind Oriental Adventures which I was silly enough to buy.

~~~
MrFilthyIke
06-28-04, 03:03 PM Originally posted by LordofIllusions
WoTC [b]always does this and I see it as a sneaky way to make MORE money by releasing the map, in yet another supplement, later.

Hmm, and here *I* thought they probably pulled the maps to SAVE money, as Paizo is a seperate company with licenses, IIRC. :)
LordofIllusions
06-28-04, 03:11 PM Originally posted by MrFilthyIke
Hmm, and here *I* thought they probably pulled the maps to SAVE money, as Paizo is a seperate company with licenses, IIRC. :)

Actually I was not referring to the map that is going to be in Dungeon or Dragon, whichever. You had better believe they are going to have yet another supplement with the map in it for about 30 - 40 bucks.

Also, WoTC OWNS the DnD name along with the Eberron name. Therefore they still make money off of the magazines along with Paizo.

~~~
Eriedm
06-28-04, 08:58 PM I agree it was a little irritating not having a removable map. I think it is more irritating that the regional maps show only the featured area. I think it would have been better if the surrounding areas would be shown as well. I can wait for Dungeon 113 however.
My only pet peeve's are that the inhabitants for the various plane only mention the MM, MotP, and MM3. It would have been nice if they would have covered the MM2 and FF as well. Also if we're supposed to use Sharn as a base why do we have to wait untill this fall to get the book covering it. These are only minor gripes though.
Geethree
06-28-04, 09:12 PM My only pet peeve's are that the inhabitants for the various plane only mention the MM, MotP, and MM3. It would have been nice if they would have covered the MM2 and FF as well.Um, they do reference MM2 and FF monsters.
Ironwolf1974
06-28-04, 10:08 PM FilthyIke I did what you wanted.

Found 5 different 300+ Page books with color, AND BETTER ART, for less then 40 dollars.

Some as low as 20 dollars. And no bargain bin at all.

Ironwolf
Lor_Builtsrtong
06-28-04, 10:45 PM So whats the big problem with wingin it? if u dont know what there, put what ever you want there. This game is imaginitive, dont conform yourself to exactly whats in the ECS, make some of it up. Otherwise your wasteing the greatest aspect of this and everyother RPG, the freedom to do whatever the Flip you want. Just my oppinion.
Stouthammer
06-28-04, 10:47 PM Originally posted by Ironwolf1974
FilthyIke I did what you wanted.

Found 5 different 300+ Page books with color, AND BETTER ART, for less then 40 dollars.

Some as low as 20 dollars. And no bargain bin at all.

Ironwolf

Were any of them gaming books however? Compare these books to the books being published by the other D20 companies. Their books sometimes cost as much as twice what the WotC books do to deliver the same (or less) quality in terms of paper, construction, size, and/or color.

As far as the gaming industry is concerned, the D&D books are a bargain.

Yes, there are hardback full-color books out in bookstores cheaper than the D&D books, because they come from much larger publishers who can sell a lot more inventory. If D&D could get the same kind of interest in its books as Time-Life or Harper Collins can with their books, Eberron probably would have cost $24.95, and it would be on the endcaps at Target.

But D&D is not a widespread phenomena. It's a hobby. And while it's a very popular hobby, it's far from the point where there's a player's handbook in every house. Or even every block.

If you feel the books are too much, even with the discounts that are /ridiculously/ easy to find online, then you, as the consumer, have the right to not buy the book. That's how you can make your statement. But I can just about guarantee you that the guy who shows up in the gaming store 90 minutes after you and is normally chagrined to find out that the last copy of <Title> has just been bought, will instead be quite pleased that you passed it over and he'll have his wallet out before you can fumble a dice roll. The hobby will continue.
Frazeal
06-29-04, 12:39 AM I agree with the posts referring to the lack of a usable map.

My progress through the setting has been hampered by the lack of a map. I find personally that a detailed map helps me visualise the relationships between areas and also stimuates ideas from small details on the map.

I am disappointed that a map wasn't included.

I downloaded the 4.5mb map from here http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/eb/20040611a

only to find that it didn't have a single word written on it.
Mystery Man
06-29-04, 08:16 AM I rather like the idea of maps that don't have so much detail. It reminds me of the FR 1E boxed set. The entire world was the canvas of the DM. I may buy 2 dungeon magazine #113, one to keep and one to write on. :)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Taurren 06-26-04, 06:10 PM	I've been reading through the ECS and been enjoying almost everything. A detailed history, unique races, new powers, good ( not great) artwork and mobile planes, makes this a great new setting IMHO. I'm excited to see how it plays on the gaming table and looking forward to trying it out very soon. But IMO, the lack of a good, usable reference map of Khorvaire is a real mistake and a pain to deal with. Both the front and back inside covers have the same bland map of the 4 main continents, and then there is a 3rd copy of the same 2 page map on pgs 214-215. While the main map of Khorvaire on pg 135 has no reference points aside from general locations of the major regions. None of them help to locate the many rivers, mountains, forests and cities that are spoken about throughout the book. Even worse is that some of the "detailed" nation maps are missing the names of important geographic locations such as mountain ranges and rivers that mark borders. This has forced me to frequently flip back and forth as I try to find exactly where a particular mountain range, forest or lake is located. I've heard that there will be a map available in an upcoming issue of Dragon, but as I dont usually buy it, it is now another purchase I will need to make to get a complete copy of the setting. I know that not everyone will feel the same way as I do, but IMO, a useable reference map should be a standard part of any campaign setting. Especially a new setting. And in this area, ECS falls very short. Aside from that I really like the setting and look forward to using it very soon.
gzombie 06-26-04, 06:45 PM	I believe it will be in Dungeon #113 and not in Dragon. That issue will also contain a Eberron adventure.
Doppleganger 06-26-04, 07:23 PM	I agree with you and it has been a pain to flip back and forth between the blank map on 135, and the regional maps (which aren't even on the same scale as each other, which can be confusing at first glance). This is probably my only complaint so far as well, everything else has been fantastic. I can't wait to get my hands on the magazine's map. There's a blank continental map available online, which seems quite odd since Khorvaire is described in such exquisite detail in the sourcebook. There's a detailed interactive map online, but just like the book, it's broken up into the same little mismatched chunks and is not a good reference for traveling or looking at the borders between regions. I wonder why this was this done?
Ironwolf1974 06-26-04, 07:44 PM	Its made me not buy the book. I mean what are you thinking? You make a complete world to adventure in, but no good map? Faerun, Kingdoms of Kalamar et etc all had fold out maps with huge amounts of detail. And I didnt have to buy ANYTHING other then the main book. It really does infuriate me, especially at 40 freaking dollars for one book. If they dont provide us a free map in the future at some point, I will NOT be buying this book. Ironwolf
DO or DICE 06-26-04, 08:43 PM	It would have been nice to have a fold out or seperate map, but the ones in Dungeon have always been good and as I get it monthly its no big deal for me. But if you don't I can really understand your point.
Gannd 06-27-04, 12:36 AM	Originally posted by DO or DICE It would have been nice to have a fold out or seperate map, but the ones in Dungeon have always been good and as I get it monthly its no big deal for me. But if you don't I can really understand your point. My local store doesn't carry the mags because no one buys them. So I'm hoping they put it online or with the GM guide.
Geethree 06-27-04, 05:03 AM	It really does infuriate me, especially at 40 freaking dollars for one book.$40 for a color 320 page illustrated, high quality hardbound book? $40 sounds fair to me. The lack of a big map is a bit frustrating, though I can't say it's been too great a hindrance for me so far (one session into my very first campaign, though that's not saying much). My biggest problem is that the small-scale maps don't seem to precisely match up with the large-scale, continent map. Some of the geographical features are slightly off, that kind of thing. I'd probably buy a Dungeon magazine simply for the Eberron map, though, as I like being able to lay a big map out in front of me as I plan my games.
Ironwolf1974 06-27-04, 05:10 AM	$40 dollars for a 320 page hardbound book is alot of money. Of course I think that new games that come out for 50 to 60 dollars are pretty outrageous to.
Bluebrush 06-27-04, 08:07 AM	I think a web enhancement would be useful. Since it'd have to be printed out on A4 and taped together, for those of us without A2 printers, there would still be some incentive to buy the issue of Dragon/Dungeon/whatever and get the spiffy "real" version.
Stouthammer 06-27-04, 03:24 PM	Originally posted by Ironwolf1974 If they dont provide us a free map in the future at some point, I will NOT be buying this book. Ironwolf Then I guess you won't be buying the book, because I don't see a free map coming forth as especially likely. The book is a very nice book, and I think worth the $40. But if you want the map included for that $40, here's a little tip that might end your complaint. There's a certain online bookseller that virtually everyone has heard of that has this book and many other RPG books at 30% off, and free shipping for orders over $25. 30% off $40 makes it a $28 purchase. So there you go. Free shipping. That saves you $12 plus tax, which depending on where you live might be as much as another $3 on top of that. So this is now $15 you're saving. Far more than the cost of the next Dungeon issue, so now you have the book, the map, an extra adventure, and still paid less than $40 total. And then you can come back to these boards and tell us how the book was worth every single penny.
Taurren 06-27-04, 03:43 PM	The book is good and worth the $40 price IMHO. But to deliberately (yes deliberately) not include a good map, which is an intregal part of any good campaign setting, so that everyone who wants one is forced to buy Dungeon in addition to the ECS ... leaves a sour taste in my mouth. Forgotten Realms did it right, with a beautiful map in the campaign setting and then additional maps in 4 straight Dragon mags. Hell, I got 2 copies of each magazine just so that I would have an extra copy. <sheesh> ... In the ECS they have 3 copies of the same bland 2 page map of the major continents, but not a single decent map of Khorvaire in all 300+ pages. For what possible reason would they do this? As I said in the begining , I like the setting but whoever made the decision to not include a good map, made a mistake.
Stouthammer 06-27-04, 09:16 PM	Oh don't get me wrong. I love maps and I agree. A map would have been the crowning achievement in this book, but I've got to say I wasn't really expecting it to have one. (And I am too disappointed at that continental map appearing 3 times in the book. It's 2 pages they could have used on something else in the middle of the book) But it seems that Wizards of the Coast has decided they're no longer interested in printing maps with books like the ones we got with Forgotten Realms and Oriental Adventures. The Underdark book from what I hear was supposed to have a pull-out map (which would have been wonderful) but the decision was made to make it a 2-page interior map instead. So we may have seen the last of the D&D books with maps included for a while, which is a shame. But the book is still very worthwhile, and I'm happy just in the knowledge that there will BE a map of Khorvaire. Better one in Dungeon than none at all. (And Dungeon is a fine magazine, and worth the price even without the map)
Taurren 06-27-04, 09:37 PM	Its just disappointing that a company which set the benchmark for others to follow when it comes to creating complete campaign settings ( ie FR ) now starts to pedal backwards with this latest creation. I'm sorry to sound like a broken record, its just that a good map is IMO a cornerstone in the building of an immersive setting, and to see Eberron miss that target as much as it did is really disappointing. I really hope that the upcoming map in Dungeon is not just a re-print of what we see on pg 135.
Stouthammer 06-27-04, 09:46 PM	my personal suspicion is that the map of Khorvaire is going to be the same downloadable map that's on the Eberron website at high resolution, and labeled like the Realms map was, rather than blank like it is on the website. Of course if you can print out that map on the website on a big enough sheet, it's pretty nice too. You can give it to your players without them knowing where everything is, and you can also use it to mark locations yourself
Axys 06-28-04, 10:51 AM	:devil::devil:If someone doesn't want to buy the book, JUST because there is no map (fold-out or HD continental map) then that is thier loss.....yeah, sure it makes it alil tougher on the DM to put everything together in a continental-wide spanning adventure, but unless you're the one DM-ing why would you worry about it? Sure the mini-maps are off on scale to each other, but since the same space per page alotment per nation's map held true throughtout the book, there's not much to whine about. As in the map coming out in Dungeon, My reply to that is YAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I pick up both Dungeon and Dragon each month, from my local gas station (not a gaming store) and have been ripping through both mags lately for Eberron material. Now I have the ECS, will be getting the map and an adventure in the next issue of Dungeon....what more could I want?
MrFilthyIke 06-28-04, 02:41 PM	Originally posted by Ironwolf1974 $40 dollars for a 320 page hardbound book is alot of money. Of course I think that new games that come out for 50 to 60 dollars are pretty outrageous to. I would say, go to a Barnes and Noble, or Borders, what have you...and find a 320 page, full-color hardback book with similar paper... And I suspect it'll be in a similar price range (and no, bargain books sections and discount bins don't count...find the new hot seller with these same criteria).
LordofIllusions 06-28-04, 02:51 PM	Originally posted by Taurren The book is good and worth the $40 price IMHO. But to deliberately (yes deliberately) not include a good map, which is an intregal part of any good campaign setting, so that everyone who wants one is forced to buy Dungeon in addition to the ECS ... leaves a sour taste in my mouth. Forgotten Realms did it right, with a beautiful map in the campaign setting and then additional maps in 4 straight Dragon mags. Hell, I got 2 copies of each magazine just so that I would have an extra copy. <sheesh> ... In the ECS they have 3 copies of the same bland 2 page map of the major continents, but not a single decent map of Khorvaire in all 300+ pages. For what possible reason would they do this? As I said in the begining , I like the setting but whoever made the decision to not include a good map, made a mistake. WoTC always does this and I see it as a sneaky way to make MORE money by releasing the map, in yet another supplement, later. I am currently running a v.3.5 Dragonlance campaign and what truly angers me is that Sovereign Press had included a full-color map in the DLCS but WoTC pulled the map at the last minute and left us with all of these chopped up maps in the book. The only settings I have seen with maps are: 1. Forgotten Realms ...and... 2. That corny behind Oriental Adventures which I was silly enough to buy. ~~~
MrFilthyIke 06-28-04, 03:03 PM	Originally posted by LordofIllusions WoTC [b]always does this and I see it as a sneaky way to make MORE money by releasing the map, in yet another supplement, later. Hmm, and here I thought they probably pulled the maps to SAVE money, as Paizo is a seperate company with licenses, IIRC. :)
LordofIllusions 06-28-04, 03:11 PM	Originally posted by MrFilthyIke Hmm, and here I thought they probably pulled the maps to SAVE money, as Paizo is a seperate company with licenses, IIRC. :) Actually I was not referring to the map that is going to be in Dungeon or Dragon, whichever. You had better believe they are going to have yet another supplement with the map in it for about 30 - 40 bucks. Also, WoTC OWNS the DnD name along with the Eberron name. Therefore they still make money off of the magazines along with Paizo. ~~~
Eriedm 06-28-04, 08:58 PM	I agree it was a little irritating not having a removable map. I think it is more irritating that the regional maps show only the featured area. I think it would have been better if the surrounding areas would be shown as well. I can wait for Dungeon 113 however. My only pet peeve's are that the inhabitants for the various plane only mention the MM, MotP, and MM3. It would have been nice if they would have covered the MM2 and FF as well. Also if we're supposed to use Sharn as a base why do we have to wait untill this fall to get the book covering it. These are only minor gripes though.
Geethree 06-28-04, 09:12 PM	My only pet peeve's are that the inhabitants for the various plane only mention the MM, MotP, and MM3. It would have been nice if they would have covered the MM2 and FF as well.Um, they do reference MM2 and FF monsters.
Ironwolf1974 06-28-04, 10:08 PM	FilthyIke I did what you wanted. Found 5 different 300+ Page books with color, AND BETTER ART, for less then 40 dollars. Some as low as 20 dollars. And no bargain bin at all. Ironwolf
Lor_Builtsrtong 06-28-04, 10:45 PM	So whats the big problem with wingin it? if u dont know what there, put what ever you want there. This game is imaginitive, dont conform yourself to exactly whats in the ECS, make some of it up. Otherwise your wasteing the greatest aspect of this and everyother RPG, the freedom to do whatever the Flip you want. Just my oppinion.
Stouthammer 06-28-04, 10:47 PM	Originally posted by Ironwolf1974 FilthyIke I did what you wanted. Found 5 different 300+ Page books with color, AND BETTER ART, for less then 40 dollars. Some as low as 20 dollars. And no bargain bin at all. Ironwolf Were any of them gaming books however? Compare these books to the books being published by the other D20 companies. Their books sometimes cost as much as twice what the WotC books do to deliver the same (or less) quality in terms of paper, construction, size, and/or color. As far as the gaming industry is concerned, the D&D books are a bargain. Yes, there are hardback full-color books out in bookstores cheaper than the D&D books, because they come from much larger publishers who can sell a lot more inventory. If D&D could get the same kind of interest in its books as Time-Life or Harper Collins can with their books, Eberron probably would have cost $24.95, and it would be on the endcaps at Target. But D&D is not a widespread phenomena. It's a hobby. And while it's a very popular hobby, it's far from the point where there's a player's handbook in every house. Or even every block. If you feel the books are too much, even with the discounts that are /ridiculously/ easy to find online, then you, as the consumer, have the right to not buy the book. That's how you can make your statement. But I can just about guarantee you that the guy who shows up in the gaming store 90 minutes after you and is normally chagrined to find out that the last copy of <Title> has just been bought, will instead be quite pleased that you passed it over and he'll have his wallet out before you can fumble a dice roll. The hobby will continue.
Frazeal 06-29-04, 12:39 AM	I agree with the posts referring to the lack of a usable map. My progress through the setting has been hampered by the lack of a map. I find personally that a detailed map helps me visualise the relationships between areas and also stimuates ideas from small details on the map. I am disappointed that a map wasn't included. I downloaded the 4.5mb map from here http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/eb/20040611a only to find that it didn't have a single word written on it.
Mystery Man 06-29-04, 08:16 AM	I rather like the idea of maps that don't have so much detail. It reminds me of the FR 1E boxed set. The entire world was the canvas of the DM. I may buy 2 dungeon magazine #113, one to keep and one to write on. :)