Opinions of Adventure. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Opinions of Adventure. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Enderlaand
03-30-07, 03:04 PM What does everyone think of Shadows of the Last War?

I'm thinking about picking up the basics of the Eberron books and getting my group to start the campaign. What is the consensus of the first module as a starting place?

Thanks for your input.
Hellcow
03-30-07, 04:08 PM What does everyone think of Shadows of the Last War?
It's been a while since I've gone over it, but if you do pick it up, there's a few things I'd personally change (there were some adjustments made in editing). Spoilers below.

I n the Sharn section of the adventure, the party is attacked in a tavern. I think the encounter uses warforged and kobolds. My original version used House Deneith mercenaries, using quarrels temporarily infused to be merciful. While THEY don't know who employed them, the idea is that the mercenaries have been hired by a rival branch of House Cannith to capture Elaydren; this other branch wants to find out what she's doing.

The critical points are that the attack is tied to what's going on at the present and explains why Elaydren isn't dealing directly with House Cannith; that there's an immediate threat, because whoever hired these mercenaries will undoubtedly send more; and that the encounter is with humans as opposed to random "monsters", among other things raising the moral question of whether killing them is the right thing to do. I don't have the stats on this computer, but IIRC you're dealing with four 2nd-level human warriors wearing chainmail; two have shields and swords ready, two have crossbows with merciful quarrels and saps; they'll target Elaydren in the first round, so the party won't get taken out right away. Because the party doesn't KNOW the quarrels are merciful, this leaves the chance for the party to think Elaydren's been killed right off. As the quarrels have been empowered with weapon augmentation, the enchantment will fade away in an hour.

Second: IIRC, the final version to the module has the coordinates to Whitehearth carved into the floor in Rose Quarry. This defeats the original purpose of the map. The basic point was to say that the map alone is useless; you need to have been given a key. As it stands, the letter Elaydren gives the party says "Find the map in Rose Quarry. Whitehearth is eight steps north of itself." Which is to say, go to the map; stand on the Cannith symbol carved into the floor in front of the white marble fireplace (the white hearth), take eight steps north, and you're standing on the approximate location. The other statues are keys to find other forgeholds... but again, without knowing what to do with them, just finding the map tells you nothing.

It's a minor point, but it's all about secrecy; the location's not much of a secret if anyone who comes by can just read it on the floor. As is, without that critical piece of information, the map tells you nothing.
Bluebrush
03-30-07, 10:16 PM Remember that the Forgotten Forge adventure in the back of your ECS is intended as a starting adventure.

Also of note, since it's come up a few times before:
-Read through the Errata on the site. The placement of some of the keys and magic items has been misprinted.
-The encounters in Whitehearth were written before it was decided that Healing should be impossible in the Mournland. You may want to scale them back a little or come up with a way for the party to heal themselves.
Spells outside the healing subschool work, so that means your best bets are goodberries and goodberry wine. Lay on Hands works too.
Failing that, Hellcow has also suggested that if you need a good rationale, you couold say a field around Whitehearth (Intended either to block divination or contain energies within) blocks the no-healing effect.

Hope that helps.
davethebrave371
04-01-07, 09:48 PM It's been a while since I've gone over it, but if you do pick it up, there's a few things I'd personally change (there were some adjustments made in editing). Spoilers below.

I n the Sharn section of the adventure, the party is attacked in a tavern. I think the encounter uses warforged and kobolds. My original version used House Deneith mercenaries, using quarrels temporarily infused to be merciful. While THEY don't know who employed them, the idea is that the mercenaries have been hired by a rival branch of House Cannith to capture Elaydren; this other branch wants to find out what she's doing.

The critical points are that the attack is tied to what's going on at the present and explains why Elaydren isn't dealing directly with House Cannith; that there's an immediate threat, because whoever hired these mercenaries will undoubtedly send more; and that the encounter is with humans as opposed to random "monsters", among other things raising the moral question of whether killing them is the right thing to do. I don't have the stats on this computer, but IIRC you're dealing with four 2nd-level human warriors wearing chainmail; two have shields and swords ready, two have crossbows with merciful quarrels and saps; they'll target Elaydren in the first round, so the party won't get taken out right away. Because the party doesn't KNOW the quarrels are merciful, this leaves the chance for the party to think Elaydren's been killed right off. As the quarrels have been empowered with weapon augmentation, the enchantment will fade away in an hour.

Second: IIRC, the final version to the module has the coordinates to Whitehearth carved into the floor in Rose Quarry. This defeats the original purpose of the map. The basic point was to say that the map alone is useless; you need to have been given a key. As it stands, the letter Elaydren gives the party says "Find the map in Rose Quarry. Whitehearth is eight steps north of itself." Which is to say, go to the map; stand on the Cannith symbol carved into the floor in front of the white marble fireplace (the white hearth), take eight steps north, and you're standing on the approximate location. The other statues are keys to find other forgeholds... but again, without knowing what to do with them, just finding the map tells you nothing.

It's a minor point, but it's all about secrecy; the location's not much of a secret if anyone who comes by can just read it on the floor. As is, without that critical piece of information, the map tells you nothing.

Woah, wish I had this when I DM'd it! Ah well, it still turned out awesome! :D
Jancarius
04-02-07, 12:50 PM I ran it fairly recently

Unless you have a pretty 'classic' party (high AC fighter, skill based char, arcane caster divine caster), I would tone down the half-golem wolf. He can be pretty nasty if he gets in among your lighter AC characters. My party managed to back him into a corner so he couldn't get around the fighter and her tower shield, but I've had a previous run of the module wipe there.

The carrion crab errata is important. That crab can and will destroy or cripple your party with the no-healing effect unless you go with that Whitehearth houserule, which I like and don't know why I didn't think of.

If your intending to continue the module series: My party actually managed to get Grilsha to help them put a Protection from Evil on Lucan, breaking him temporarily free of both the sword and his vampiric master. They explained to him who they were and what they were doing (having to recast the spell once or twice), and he agreed to get staked so that they could take him back to the Dark Lanterns and they could try and break him free of the vampire's control. I found this was MUCH more satisfying for my players than a BRUTUAL hit and run battle with him throughout the temple where one or more of your players is likely to be killed by Lucan.

In Grasp: My group never finished Grasp, actually. They decided to abandon House Cannith and took everything they knew about the schema to Orien. They got the House to teleport them into the jungle (roll for miss chance was fun, they actually wound up like 50 miles south of hte Temple and had to hike it through Xen'drik jungle), and were doing fine until they set off that wail of the banshee trap. Not that they didn't think there was a trap there. Just for some reason they went up and messed with it anyway, and the artificer missed finding the alarm spell that triggers it by 2 points.
Enderlaand
04-03-07, 12:53 PM Thank you all for your help. I'll give it a read over and see what I think.
Melvin the Mediocre
04-03-07, 04:30 PM the encounter is with humans as opposed to random "monsters", among other things raising the moral question of whether killing them is the right thing to do.

You play in a group with morals? Huh, what's that like?
Nlogue
04-03-07, 07:00 PM See I always kill the humans who get in my way when gaming. It's a moral imperative. Those monsters...they are just doing what comes natural to them by eating brains, savaging children and whatnot, but humans choose to be evil...therefore they need to die. ;)

Seriously though most of the sessions of D&D I run and play in, most of the bad guys are people not monsters. I just find the emotional complexities of conflict between people (as opposed to mind flayers, worgs, etc.) much more interesting than "we hate you cause you are food, or different, or we are just born evil and hate you just cause..."

Of course, now and then its fun to whoop up on some minotaurs or dragons though, don't get me wrong. :)
Nlogue
04-03-07, 07:04 PM Then again those mercenaries might just be doing their job, so maybe they aren't evil. Unless you consider people just doing their jobs as evil by association...like Walmart...hmmm...better kill those mercs for good measure. ;)
Hellcow
04-03-07, 07:28 PM Seriously though most of the sessions of D&D I run and play in, most of the bad guys are people not monsters. I just find the emotional complexities of conflict between people (as opposed to mind flayers, worgs, etc.) much more interesting than "we hate you cause you are food, or different, or we are just born evil and hate you just cause..."
I completely agree.

Of course, with Eberron in particular I also like to make monsters more complex when possible, noting that goblins, orcs, and even medusas aren't "born evil" and have the same motivations as humans. Goblins MAY hate you, but hey, you stole their land, enslaved their ancestors, and you've now left them as beggars in the ruins of one of the greatest cities of their people.

I'm the first to say that sometimes you DO want a simple pulp action scene with no moral considerations whatsoever. In part, that's what groups like the Emerald Claw are for; they are human, but nine times out of ten they're up to no good. Having some guys who wear black hats and who you can feel good about beating up is a very valuable thing. And having people who's motives you can understand and empathize with, but who you're STILL going to kill - hey, you understand why the goblins want you dead, but that doesn't mean they're going to let them kill you - is important. I don't expect you to spare the life of every foe, but I like creating situations where there are questions.

Looking again at that first scene...

In my original write-up, Elaydren's actually playing you. She doesn't work for Cannith South; she works for Cannith East. That's why she's meeting you in a dump in Callestan in the first place; Merrix has caught wind of her presence and he wants her brought in for questioning. The fact that she's attacked by Deneith mercs using infused weapons raises a number of things. Whoever is after her doesn't want her dead; and the use of augmentation suggests that an artificer is involved. The mercs are doing their job, and they WILL try and kill you if you get in their way. But if you stay out of their way, they'll leave you alone. They want Elaydren, and they want her alive.

This also introduces the idea of House Deneith; as it was the first Eberron adventure, I wanted to use it to introduce the Dragonmarked houses.

In the final version, it's just a squad of monsters out for revenge. There's certainly no question about whether or not to kill them. Also, IIRC, Elaydren is left as working for Cannith South, which doesn't make much sense; why's she meeting you in such a bad part of town?

My belief is that the editor felt that my original opening scene raised too many questions; the final scene is certainly simpler. I like the complexity - dealing with interplay between the factions of Cannith - but I understand the desire to simplify.
Nlogue
04-03-07, 08:04 PM That's why I love you for the alignment take in Eberron, Keith! It's always what I have done in my home games, but I find it often resisted in con events and whatnot, but now thanks to the mass re-education you have enacted about alignment in Eberron, anyone can be good or evil!!! It's awesome!

And I totally fade your bet on how interesting monsters can be in Eberron...that's one reason I loved working on DoE with you, really getting into the perspective of other creatures is totally what makes fantasy/sci-fi fun for me. I love running campaigns where the players all play minotaurs, or vampires, or lycanthropes, etc. It's a great escape from "human" prejudices and stagnant tropes of "morality" we get locked into. Great stuff, and especially fun in Eberron! Thanks Keith!
Nlogue
04-03-07, 08:06 PM And having people who's motives you can understand and empathize with, but who you're STILL going to kill - hey, you understand why the goblins want you dead, but that doesn't mean they're going to let them kill you - is important. I don't expect you to spare the life of every foe, but I like creating situations where there are questions.

So key! The first step to real tragedy. It's not tragedy when people are wrong-wrong-bad. It's tragedy when both sides are right in their own way, but circumstances have coalesced as such that they must kill each other...that is awesome drama (or dramma, as I like to call it sometimes!).

Love the spoilers! That is a much juicier scene my man!
Hellcow
04-03-07, 09:37 PM That's why I love you for the alignment take in Eberron, Keith!
I'm glad we agree! Let's write a sourcebook together!

... Oh, wait, we've already done that. Let's write ANOTHER sourcebook together.

... Oh, wait, we're already doing THAT. Maybe I could write introductions to Dragon articles you've done? What, we've got that covered too?

Damn. I got nothin'.
UnderworldLord
04-03-07, 11:08 PM How about writing a novel together? Or perhaps co-dming a game or some such? Anyhow, I'll stop threadjacking now.
Nlogue
04-04-07, 01:35 AM A Novel!!!??? I would love to write a novel...I've written a ton of short stories and a few chapters of two novels, but never shown them to anyone. I am supposed to give a certain someone in the Novels department at WotC some writing samples, but sadly, I have been buried in writing projects recently...but someday!!! Who knows.
WolfHati
04-12-07, 05:00 AM the encounter is with humans as opposed to random "monsters", among other things raising the moral question of whether killing them is the right thing to do.You play in a group with morals? Huh, what's that like?

Heck I play a monster with no morals in the Eberron campaign I'm in, and even he wouldn't be stupid enough to kill them outright.

Gnoll viciously slaughters servants of a Dragonmarked house in a bar in front of witnesses... that's going to go over real well.

However, dark alleys in poorer districts are a different story entirely...
Centauri
09-07-07, 03:13 PM Are there errata for the stat blocks for the NPCs? The female Emerald Claw fighter and Garrow have some problems. The fighter is short some skill points and doesn't have high enough Intelligence for Combat Expertise. Garrow is also short some skill points, and doesn't have his changeling racial bonuses factored in.

I can make these (and other) changes, but I'm interested to know if there's an official fix.
Ironhelm Baruch
10-01-07, 11:37 AM I have a question regarding the whole series.

I've been running a campaign for about 18 months, which started with the Forgotten Forge, moved into Shadows of the Last War, followed by Curse of the Vampire's Blade and lastly, we are now a couple of sessions away from ending Grasp of the Emerald Claw.

My question:

My players really took the whole bit that Garrow was a vampire hook, line and sinker. So much that they assumed that Lucan was mearly a "minor" vampire, and not much of a threat. They defeated him rather easily, due to a combination of lucky rolls, and rather smart game play.

So, now we're about to have the final conflict with Garrow in the temple -- probably at tomorrow night's session. I don't want them to be dissappointed when they learn that he isn't a vampire. But, as written, I feel that he will fall too easily now to the party.

The party is composed of an 8th lvl changeling rogue, a 7th level cleric (a couple of his levels are now a PrC that I don't remember off of the top of my head, but it is a very good Undead fighter), a 6th level warforged ranger/investigator from the Sharn book and a 6th level sorceror. Also in the party until last session was a 7th level dwarf ranger/fighter. His player moved away afer the last session, so he will set off the Banshee trap in the temple at the beginning of the next session.

Anyway, does anyone have any suggestions for adding a little more oomph to Garrow without actually making him a vamp? I would like to remain true to the intrigue of the storyline.

Thanks!
davethebrave371
10-01-07, 05:07 PM In my own campaign, I just level up NPCs, add HD, or whatever else I need to do to make them +the amount of levels above the average party level assumed.

Example: The NPC you describe I would advance 4 levels if the party was level 8 and the adventure said "For a party of four 4th level characters."
Aseran
10-01-07, 07:00 PM Hey, you know...

While this subject is still going, I'm contemplating running this save adventure--or series of adventures, from Forgotten Forge up to Grasp of the Emerald Claw--at a higher level than they're set at, like around 10. There's an overall reason for why things would happen out of sequence in this particular campaign I'm running, but what kind of changes, sweeping or minute, could be made to fit them to higher levels? Things other than just bumping up CRs of encounters, things to make it actually seem more high-level...like replacing Elaydren with Merrix himself as the party's sponsor.

It's kind of a massive leap, but I think it could be fun.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Enderlaand 03-30-07, 03:04 PM	What does everyone think of Shadows of the Last War? I'm thinking about picking up the basics of the Eberron books and getting my group to start the campaign. What is the consensus of the first module as a starting place? Thanks for your input.
Hellcow 03-30-07, 04:08 PM	What does everyone think of Shadows of the Last War? It's been a while since I've gone over it, but if you do pick it up, there's a few things I'd personally change (there were some adjustments made in editing). Spoilers below. I n the Sharn section of the adventure, the party is attacked in a tavern. I think the encounter uses warforged and kobolds. My original version used House Deneith mercenaries, using quarrels temporarily infused to be merciful. While THEY don't know who employed them, the idea is that the mercenaries have been hired by a rival branch of House Cannith to capture Elaydren; this other branch wants to find out what she's doing. The critical points are that the attack is tied to what's going on at the present and explains why Elaydren isn't dealing directly with House Cannith; that there's an immediate threat, because whoever hired these mercenaries will undoubtedly send more; and that the encounter is with humans as opposed to random "monsters", among other things raising the moral question of whether killing them is the right thing to do. I don't have the stats on this computer, but IIRC you're dealing with four 2nd-level human warriors wearing chainmail; two have shields and swords ready, two have crossbows with merciful quarrels and saps; they'll target Elaydren in the first round, so the party won't get taken out right away. Because the party doesn't KNOW the quarrels are merciful, this leaves the chance for the party to think Elaydren's been killed right off. As the quarrels have been empowered with weapon augmentation, the enchantment will fade away in an hour. Second: IIRC, the final version to the module has the coordinates to Whitehearth carved into the floor in Rose Quarry. This defeats the original purpose of the map. The basic point was to say that the map alone is useless; you need to have been given a key. As it stands, the letter Elaydren gives the party says "Find the map in Rose Quarry. Whitehearth is eight steps north of itself." Which is to say, go to the map; stand on the Cannith symbol carved into the floor in front of the white marble fireplace (the white hearth), take eight steps north, and you're standing on the approximate location. The other statues are keys to find other forgeholds... but again, without knowing what to do with them, just finding the map tells you nothing. It's a minor point, but it's all about secrecy; the location's not much of a secret if anyone who comes by can just read it on the floor. As is, without that critical piece of information, the map tells you nothing.
Bluebrush 03-30-07, 10:16 PM	Remember that the Forgotten Forge adventure in the back of your ECS is intended as a starting adventure. Also of note, since it's come up a few times before: -Read through the Errata on the site. The placement of some of the keys and magic items has been misprinted. -The encounters in Whitehearth were written before it was decided that Healing should be impossible in the Mournland. You may want to scale them back a little or come up with a way for the party to heal themselves. Spells outside the healing subschool work, so that means your best bets are goodberries and goodberry wine. Lay on Hands works too. Failing that, Hellcow has also suggested that if you need a good rationale, you couold say a field around Whitehearth (Intended either to block divination or contain energies within) blocks the no-healing effect. Hope that helps.
davethebrave371 04-01-07, 09:48 PM	It's been a while since I've gone over it, but if you do pick it up, there's a few things I'd personally change (there were some adjustments made in editing). Spoilers below. I n the Sharn section of the adventure, the party is attacked in a tavern. I think the encounter uses warforged and kobolds. My original version used House Deneith mercenaries, using quarrels temporarily infused to be merciful. While THEY don't know who employed them, the idea is that the mercenaries have been hired by a rival branch of House Cannith to capture Elaydren; this other branch wants to find out what she's doing. The critical points are that the attack is tied to what's going on at the present and explains why Elaydren isn't dealing directly with House Cannith; that there's an immediate threat, because whoever hired these mercenaries will undoubtedly send more; and that the encounter is with humans as opposed to random "monsters", among other things raising the moral question of whether killing them is the right thing to do. I don't have the stats on this computer, but IIRC you're dealing with four 2nd-level human warriors wearing chainmail; two have shields and swords ready, two have crossbows with merciful quarrels and saps; they'll target Elaydren in the first round, so the party won't get taken out right away. Because the party doesn't KNOW the quarrels are merciful, this leaves the chance for the party to think Elaydren's been killed right off. As the quarrels have been empowered with weapon augmentation, the enchantment will fade away in an hour. Second: IIRC, the final version to the module has the coordinates to Whitehearth carved into the floor in Rose Quarry. This defeats the original purpose of the map. The basic point was to say that the map alone is useless; you need to have been given a key. As it stands, the letter Elaydren gives the party says "Find the map in Rose Quarry. Whitehearth is eight steps north of itself." Which is to say, go to the map; stand on the Cannith symbol carved into the floor in front of the white marble fireplace (the white hearth), take eight steps north, and you're standing on the approximate location. The other statues are keys to find other forgeholds... but again, without knowing what to do with them, just finding the map tells you nothing. It's a minor point, but it's all about secrecy; the location's not much of a secret if anyone who comes by can just read it on the floor. As is, without that critical piece of information, the map tells you nothing. Woah, wish I had this when I DM'd it! Ah well, it still turned out awesome! :D
Jancarius 04-02-07, 12:50 PM	I ran it fairly recently Unless you have a pretty 'classic' party (high AC fighter, skill based char, arcane caster divine caster), I would tone down the half-golem wolf. He can be pretty nasty if he gets in among your lighter AC characters. My party managed to back him into a corner so he couldn't get around the fighter and her tower shield, but I've had a previous run of the module wipe there. The carrion crab errata is important. That crab can and will destroy or cripple your party with the no-healing effect unless you go with that Whitehearth houserule, which I like and don't know why I didn't think of. If your intending to continue the module series: My party actually managed to get Grilsha to help them put a Protection from Evil on Lucan, breaking him temporarily free of both the sword and his vampiric master. They explained to him who they were and what they were doing (having to recast the spell once or twice), and he agreed to get staked so that they could take him back to the Dark Lanterns and they could try and break him free of the vampire's control. I found this was MUCH more satisfying for my players than a BRUTUAL hit and run battle with him throughout the temple where one or more of your players is likely to be killed by Lucan. In Grasp: My group never finished Grasp, actually. They decided to abandon House Cannith and took everything they knew about the schema to Orien. They got the House to teleport them into the jungle (roll for miss chance was fun, they actually wound up like 50 miles south of hte Temple and had to hike it through Xen'drik jungle), and were doing fine until they set off that wail of the banshee trap. Not that they didn't think there was a trap there. Just for some reason they went up and messed with it anyway, and the artificer missed finding the alarm spell that triggers it by 2 points.
Enderlaand 04-03-07, 12:53 PM	Thank you all for your help. I'll give it a read over and see what I think.
Melvin the Mediocre 04-03-07, 04:30 PM	the encounter is with humans as opposed to random "monsters", among other things raising the moral question of whether killing them is the right thing to do. You play in a group with morals? Huh, what's that like?
Nlogue 04-03-07, 07:00 PM	See I always kill the humans who get in my way when gaming. It's a moral imperative. Those monsters...they are just doing what comes natural to them by eating brains, savaging children and whatnot, but humans choose to be evil...therefore they need to die. ;) Seriously though most of the sessions of D&D I run and play in, most of the bad guys are people not monsters. I just find the emotional complexities of conflict between people (as opposed to mind flayers, worgs, etc.) much more interesting than "we hate you cause you are food, or different, or we are just born evil and hate you just cause..." Of course, now and then its fun to whoop up on some minotaurs or dragons though, don't get me wrong. :)
Nlogue 04-03-07, 07:04 PM	Then again those mercenaries might just be doing their job, so maybe they aren't evil. Unless you consider people just doing their jobs as evil by association...like Walmart...hmmm...better kill those mercs for good measure. ;)
Hellcow 04-03-07, 07:28 PM	Seriously though most of the sessions of D&D I run and play in, most of the bad guys are people not monsters. I just find the emotional complexities of conflict between people (as opposed to mind flayers, worgs, etc.) much more interesting than "we hate you cause you are food, or different, or we are just born evil and hate you just cause..." I completely agree. Of course, with Eberron in particular I also like to make monsters more complex when possible, noting that goblins, orcs, and even medusas aren't "born evil" and have the same motivations as humans. Goblins MAY hate you, but hey, you stole their land, enslaved their ancestors, and you've now left them as beggars in the ruins of one of the greatest cities of their people. I'm the first to say that sometimes you DO want a simple pulp action scene with no moral considerations whatsoever. In part, that's what groups like the Emerald Claw are for; they are human, but nine times out of ten they're up to no good. Having some guys who wear black hats and who you can feel good about beating up is a very valuable thing. And having people who's motives you can understand and empathize with, but who you're STILL going to kill - hey, you understand why the goblins want you dead, but that doesn't mean they're going to let them kill you - is important. I don't expect you to spare the life of every foe, but I like creating situations where there are questions. Looking again at that first scene... In my original write-up, Elaydren's actually playing you. She doesn't work for Cannith South; she works for Cannith East. That's why she's meeting you in a dump in Callestan in the first place; Merrix has caught wind of her presence and he wants her brought in for questioning. The fact that she's attacked by Deneith mercs using infused weapons raises a number of things. Whoever is after her doesn't want her dead; and the use of augmentation suggests that an artificer is involved. The mercs are doing their job, and they WILL try and kill you if you get in their way. But if you stay out of their way, they'll leave you alone. They want Elaydren, and they want her alive. This also introduces the idea of House Deneith; as it was the first Eberron adventure, I wanted to use it to introduce the Dragonmarked houses. In the final version, it's just a squad of monsters out for revenge. There's certainly no question about whether or not to kill them. Also, IIRC, Elaydren is left as working for Cannith South, which doesn't make much sense; why's she meeting you in such a bad part of town? My belief is that the editor felt that my original opening scene raised too many questions; the final scene is certainly simpler. I like the complexity - dealing with interplay between the factions of Cannith - but I understand the desire to simplify.
Nlogue 04-03-07, 08:04 PM	That's why I love you for the alignment take in Eberron, Keith! It's always what I have done in my home games, but I find it often resisted in con events and whatnot, but now thanks to the mass re-education you have enacted about alignment in Eberron, anyone can be good or evil!!! It's awesome! And I totally fade your bet on how interesting monsters can be in Eberron...that's one reason I loved working on DoE with you, really getting into the perspective of other creatures is totally what makes fantasy/sci-fi fun for me. I love running campaigns where the players all play minotaurs, or vampires, or lycanthropes, etc. It's a great escape from "human" prejudices and stagnant tropes of "morality" we get locked into. Great stuff, and especially fun in Eberron! Thanks Keith!
Nlogue 04-03-07, 08:06 PM	And having people who's motives you can understand and empathize with, but who you're STILL going to kill - hey, you understand why the goblins want you dead, but that doesn't mean they're going to let them kill you - is important. I don't expect you to spare the life of every foe, but I like creating situations where there are questions. So key! The first step to real tragedy. It's not tragedy when people are wrong-wrong-bad. It's tragedy when both sides are right in their own way, but circumstances have coalesced as such that they must kill each other...that is awesome drama (or dramma, as I like to call it sometimes!). Love the spoilers! That is a much juicier scene my man!
Hellcow 04-03-07, 09:37 PM	That's why I love you for the alignment take in Eberron, Keith! I'm glad we agree! Let's write a sourcebook together! ... Oh, wait, we've already done that. Let's write ANOTHER sourcebook together. ... Oh, wait, we're already doing THAT. Maybe I could write introductions to Dragon articles you've done? What, we've got that covered too? Damn. I got nothin'.
UnderworldLord 04-03-07, 11:08 PM	How about writing a novel together? Or perhaps co-dming a game or some such? Anyhow, I'll stop threadjacking now.
Nlogue 04-04-07, 01:35 AM	A Novel!!!??? I would love to write a novel...I've written a ton of short stories and a few chapters of two novels, but never shown them to anyone. I am supposed to give a certain someone in the Novels department at WotC some writing samples, but sadly, I have been buried in writing projects recently...but someday!!! Who knows.
WolfHati 04-12-07, 05:00 AM	the encounter is with humans as opposed to random "monsters", among other things raising the moral question of whether killing them is the right thing to do.You play in a group with morals? Huh, what's that like? Heck I play a monster with no morals in the Eberron campaign I'm in, and even he wouldn't be stupid enough to kill them outright. Gnoll viciously slaughters servants of a Dragonmarked house in a bar in front of witnesses... that's going to go over real well. However, dark alleys in poorer districts are a different story entirely...
Centauri 09-07-07, 03:13 PM	Are there errata for the stat blocks for the NPCs? The female Emerald Claw fighter and Garrow have some problems. The fighter is short some skill points and doesn't have high enough Intelligence for Combat Expertise. Garrow is also short some skill points, and doesn't have his changeling racial bonuses factored in. I can make these (and other) changes, but I'm interested to know if there's an official fix.
Ironhelm Baruch 10-01-07, 11:37 AM	I have a question regarding the whole series. I've been running a campaign for about 18 months, which started with the Forgotten Forge, moved into Shadows of the Last War, followed by Curse of the Vampire's Blade and lastly, we are now a couple of sessions away from ending Grasp of the Emerald Claw. My question: My players really took the whole bit that Garrow was a vampire hook, line and sinker. So much that they assumed that Lucan was mearly a "minor" vampire, and not much of a threat. They defeated him rather easily, due to a combination of lucky rolls, and rather smart game play. So, now we're about to have the final conflict with Garrow in the temple -- probably at tomorrow night's session. I don't want them to be dissappointed when they learn that he isn't a vampire. But, as written, I feel that he will fall too easily now to the party. The party is composed of an 8th lvl changeling rogue, a 7th level cleric (a couple of his levels are now a PrC that I don't remember off of the top of my head, but it is a very good Undead fighter), a 6th level warforged ranger/investigator from the Sharn book and a 6th level sorceror. Also in the party until last session was a 7th level dwarf ranger/fighter. His player moved away afer the last session, so he will set off the Banshee trap in the temple at the beginning of the next session. Anyway, does anyone have any suggestions for adding a little more oomph to Garrow without actually making him a vamp? I would like to remain true to the intrigue of the storyline. Thanks!
davethebrave371 10-01-07, 05:07 PM	In my own campaign, I just level up NPCs, add HD, or whatever else I need to do to make them +the amount of levels above the average party level assumed. Example: The NPC you describe I would advance 4 levels if the party was level 8 and the adventure said "For a party of four 4th level characters."
Aseran 10-01-07, 07:00 PM	Hey, you know... While this subject is still going, I'm contemplating running this save adventure--or series of adventures, from Forgotten Forge up to Grasp of the Emerald Claw--at a higher level than they're set at, like around 10. There's an overall reason for why things would happen out of sequence in this particular campaign I'm running, but what kind of changes, sweeping or minute, could be made to fit them to higher levels? Things other than just bumping up CRs of encounters, things to make it actually seem more high-level...like replacing Elaydren with Merrix himself as the party's sponsor. It's kind of a massive leap, but I think it could be fun.