Opinions on the Artificer [Archive] - Wizards Community

Opinions on the Artificer [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Ragnarok_N_Roll
03-16-06, 02:10 PM Since I can't find a way to search this darn forum.

Keep it or not? Opine away please.
igotsmeakabob!!
03-16-06, 05:27 PM Keep it? Not sure what you mean, its definitely a great class. It can fill in for a rogue, a cleric, a wizard, its a great class. Very fun to play.
Cutlass
03-16-06, 05:57 PM Given that the artificer class is integral to the setting you're going to have to have them around as NPC's if nothing else. Also, if you're running a warforged multiclassing as a whatever/artificer (or artificer/whatever) makes things a lot easier.

Now, I have in the past provoked some controversy by making what I think are good suggestions for limiting some of the potential "problems" of the class. However, in the big scheme of things they are actually relatively minor.

The first is that in order for an artificer to be able to use his UMD skill to emulate a magical effect, he MUST have an intelligence attribute of at least 10 + the level of the effect being emulated. Without that rule you could have an artificer with an intelligence of 16 creating magic items that wizards or clerics would need relevant ability scores of 17, 18 or 19 in order to make.

The second is actually something that I have seen Hellcow (Keith Baker) suggest on this board. There are no UMD skill boosting magic items available.

If one puts those suggestions into effect in their campaign then the potential for "abuse" by artificer characters is greatly limited. At lower levels (and especially for multiclass artificers with low UMD skills) the artificers will spend most of their time just using their base infusions. It takes a while for them to build their UMD skills to the point that they can use them to reliably create things (or take full advantage of the "spell storing item" infusion).

Eberron was designed by Keith Baker as a "wide magic" setting, not a "high magic" setting. The artificer fits that design theory perfectly. The way the abilities of the class are set up, the artificer is only going to be able to reliably make relatively low level (at least compared to his level) stuff. As he pushes the envelope more and more the UMD DC's needed increase rapidly and he'll waste a lot of time, materials (and possibly even take damage occasionally) trying to make "high end" (for his level) items.

A well thought out and run artificer character can be very versatile and fill any of several different niches in an adventuring group. A well designed rogue/artificer could be downright scary. I don't think that doing away with the class would be a good choice for an Eberron game. I think one just has to sit down with the rules, read through them several times, and check some of the other sections on this board and get a better idea of what they're all about and what their strengths and weaknesses are.
DoveArrow
03-16-06, 07:52 PM Personally, I like the artificer for a lot of the reasons already mentioned. My favorite, though, is the versatility of the class. Essentially, the artificer can stand in for just about any archetypal role in the party. For example, if there's no cleric in the party, an artificer can boost up his ranks in UMD and use cure wands to heal his party. Don't have a wizard? No problem. Again, with UMD, and a few wands, the artificer can have a lot of the same firepower of a wizard. No fighter? Not to worry. Since infusions don't incur an armor check penalty, an artificer can wear heavy armor and join the front lines, using his infusions to boost both his melee capabilities and the abilities of his fellow party members. No rogue? Don't sweat it baby. While the artificer may not have the ability to do back stab damage, Disable Device, Open Lock, and Search are all class skills, plus the artificer can search for magical traps as well.

So would I keep the artificer around? You bet! No other class has the versatility of an artificer, which makes him a valuable addition to any party.
Edymnion
03-16-06, 10:46 PM Since I can't find a way to search this darn forum.

Keep it or not? Opine away please.It depends on what kind of people you game with. A pure munchkin min/maxxer is going to be able to make the Artificer do *HORRIBLE* things. Not so much because of anything in the class itself, but because it is capable of replicating just about any magical effect, and with all the differant spells and the like out there, there will always be things they can mix and match to totally break the character. But thats true for *ANY* class, not just the Artificer.

The strength of the Artificer is in it's flexibility. In the hands of a good player, the Artificer is the most wanted guy on the team because of how helpful and supportive of a character he is. In the hands of a bad player, he's unholy hell let loose on all of creation.
Ragnarok_N_Roll
03-17-06, 12:26 PM Based on that info, the errata and house rules I'll keep it in. Thanks all.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Ragnarok_N_Roll 03-16-06, 02:10 PM	Since I can't find a way to search this darn forum. Keep it or not? Opine away please.
igotsmeakabob!! 03-16-06, 05:27 PM	Keep it? Not sure what you mean, its definitely a great class. It can fill in for a rogue, a cleric, a wizard, its a great class. Very fun to play.
Cutlass 03-16-06, 05:57 PM	Given that the artificer class is integral to the setting you're going to have to have them around as NPC's if nothing else. Also, if you're running a warforged multiclassing as a whatever/artificer (or artificer/whatever) makes things a lot easier. Now, I have in the past provoked some controversy by making what I think are good suggestions for limiting some of the potential "problems" of the class. However, in the big scheme of things they are actually relatively minor. The first is that in order for an artificer to be able to use his UMD skill to emulate a magical effect, he MUST have an intelligence attribute of at least 10 + the level of the effect being emulated. Without that rule you could have an artificer with an intelligence of 16 creating magic items that wizards or clerics would need relevant ability scores of 17, 18 or 19 in order to make. The second is actually something that I have seen Hellcow (Keith Baker) suggest on this board. There are no UMD skill boosting magic items available. If one puts those suggestions into effect in their campaign then the potential for "abuse" by artificer characters is greatly limited. At lower levels (and especially for multiclass artificers with low UMD skills) the artificers will spend most of their time just using their base infusions. It takes a while for them to build their UMD skills to the point that they can use them to reliably create things (or take full advantage of the "spell storing item" infusion). Eberron was designed by Keith Baker as a "wide magic" setting, not a "high magic" setting. The artificer fits that design theory perfectly. The way the abilities of the class are set up, the artificer is only going to be able to reliably make relatively low level (at least compared to his level) stuff. As he pushes the envelope more and more the UMD DC's needed increase rapidly and he'll waste a lot of time, materials (and possibly even take damage occasionally) trying to make "high end" (for his level) items. A well thought out and run artificer character can be very versatile and fill any of several different niches in an adventuring group. A well designed rogue/artificer could be downright scary. I don't think that doing away with the class would be a good choice for an Eberron game. I think one just has to sit down with the rules, read through them several times, and check some of the other sections on this board and get a better idea of what they're all about and what their strengths and weaknesses are.
DoveArrow 03-16-06, 07:52 PM	Personally, I like the artificer for a lot of the reasons already mentioned. My favorite, though, is the versatility of the class. Essentially, the artificer can stand in for just about any archetypal role in the party. For example, if there's no cleric in the party, an artificer can boost up his ranks in UMD and use cure wands to heal his party. Don't have a wizard? No problem. Again, with UMD, and a few wands, the artificer can have a lot of the same firepower of a wizard. No fighter? Not to worry. Since infusions don't incur an armor check penalty, an artificer can wear heavy armor and join the front lines, using his infusions to boost both his melee capabilities and the abilities of his fellow party members. No rogue? Don't sweat it baby. While the artificer may not have the ability to do back stab damage, Disable Device, Open Lock, and Search are all class skills, plus the artificer can search for magical traps as well. So would I keep the artificer around? You bet! No other class has the versatility of an artificer, which makes him a valuable addition to any party.
Edymnion 03-16-06, 10:46 PM	Since I can't find a way to search this darn forum. Keep it or not? Opine away please.It depends on what kind of people you game with. A pure munchkin min/maxxer is going to be able to make the Artificer do HORRIBLE things. Not so much because of anything in the class itself, but because it is capable of replicating just about any magical effect, and with all the differant spells and the like out there, there will always be things they can mix and match to totally break the character. But thats true for ANY class, not just the Artificer. The strength of the Artificer is in it's flexibility. In the hands of a good player, the Artificer is the most wanted guy on the team because of how helpful and supportive of a character he is. In the hands of a bad player, he's unholy hell let loose on all of creation.
Ragnarok_N_Roll 03-17-06, 12:26 PM	Based on that info, the errata and house rules I'll keep it in. Thanks all.