Organized Crime is Racist in Sharn! [Archive] - Wizards Community

Organized Crime is Racist in Sharn! [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Occams_Razor
03-12-05, 02:00 PM So, I am playing in a campaign that will be set in Sharn, most likely and I am extremely unhappy with the spectrum of criminal organizations around. It seems like you have to be a halfling or a changling to get very high up in the organizations (the monsters are out because of their drug involvement, which I loathe) and my concept was that my character is trying to take over the organization (he's a tiefling rogue/mage/arcane trickster) but I can't take over Boromar, since I'm not a short guy, and I'm not a changling, so I'm a little miffed right now. Any thoughts that might help me?

I am considering paying of Boromar to remain relatively independant, then starting my own organization and then taking out the competition, but that might be harder than I'd like, you know, if the infrastructure is already in place, things are easier... Well, any thoughts would be appreciated.
Charles Phipps
03-12-05, 02:18 PM It's more realistic.

After all the Halflings in Sharn are immigrants. They enjoy their pasta, they have strong sense of family, a promise is a promise.

;-)

But it depends largely on how you wish to portray them. The mafia being racially based I rather like with no chance given to even capable outsiders (like the Irishman in Godfather) but its just as likely to be otherwise in other people's games
Talanall
03-12-05, 02:21 PM You're forgetting House Tarkanen, which is aggressively multiracial. It'll require you to have an abberrant dragonmark, so you won't find shifter, warforged, or changeling members. That won't help you, because you're playing a tiefling and that race hasn't been written directly into Eberron.

In any case, you may want to keep in mind that advancement in a criminal organization is likely to assure you (mostly) of a lot of time behind a desk. The upper ranks of the Boromar Clan, in particular, are composed of elite bodyguards and administrators. I don't really think you're losing anything important, if you do as you plan to do

Given that the Boromar Clan does not, in fact, emphasize the sorts of things an arcane trickster is good at, you can probably get away with maintaining a less-exalted level of membership (which they certainly do extend to non-halflings), or even just paying them a cut of any profits you make in Sharn. It'd end up being something like the arrangement that House Tarkanen has made with them--you pay them the courtesy of not interfering with their work, and pay them a cut of your profits if you do interfere. They reciprocate by leaving you alone. Both sides profit by not having to engage in a costly turf war in which many people would die.

I suppose you could also approach the Lords of Dust, and see if your fiendish heritage counts for anything with them. Maybe you can get a rakshasa to bankroll your operation. The Order of the Emerald Claw might also be willing to work something out, I guess, in order to acquire another source of revenue.

Finally, there's the Aurum to consider. It's not quite organized crime, but it's close, advancement is based on merit rather than race, and its members are generally less than squeamish about who they deal with.
dauntus
03-12-05, 02:51 PM So, I am playing in a campaign that will be set in Sharn, most likely and I am extremely unhappy with the spectrum of criminal organizations around. It seems like you have to be a halfling or a changling to get very high up in the organizations (the monsters are out because of their drug involvement, which I loathe) and my concept was that my character is trying to take over the organization (he's a tiefling rogue/mage/arcane trickster) but I can't take over Boromar, since I'm not a short guy, and I'm not a changling, so I'm a little miffed right now. Any thoughts that might help me?

I am considering paying of Boromar to remain relatively independant, then starting my own organization and then taking out the competition, but that might be harder than I'd like, you know, if the infrastructure is already in place, things are easier... Well, any thoughts would be appreciated.

Starting your own is the best chance you've got, but you'll have to be very crafty to do it. The Boromars and Daask have no love for competition, and no one has love for tieflings. Before you know it, you could have a Tyrant hunting you down (and if you've been successful, taking over what you've accomplished). Your organization would be played against all parties, and you'd need to have a plan just to establish yourself for an extended period of time.

Taking over Boromar from the inside would not be impossible, just ridiculously difficult. Most (not all)of it is halflings, many with family connections to the clan. However, the security chief is a gnome, a rather sensitive position for a non-halfling, meaning the glass ceiling is rather high (unlike the ceilings in the Boromars' homes). If that gnome could be "replaced" with someone sympathetic to your cause, it would go a long way in cementing your success.

Also, reconsider Daask. I'm guessing that your objection to it is based in RL concerns, not on your character's distaste. If so, keep in mind that it is a fantasy game, and you can perform actions you would disagree with in real life (like charging a great wyrm head-on) without repercussions or guilt. Daask is the most. . . cosmopolitan of all the gangs, and someone as monstrous as a tiefling could go quite far, especially if the hags see Cavallah's ouster as part of their plan. It also has more room for growth, as you'd have to keep powerful monsters in line, and wiping out those racist little midgets is good for your bottom line. Plus, imagine all the conversations you could have. . .
Occams_Razor
03-12-05, 04:12 PM Also, reconsider Daask. I'm guessing that your objection to it is based in RL concerns, not on your character's distaste. If so, keep in mind that it is a fantasy game, and you can perform actions you would disagree with in real life (like charging a great wyrm head-on) without repercussions or guilt. Daask is the most. . . cosmopolitan of all the gangs, and someone as monstrous as a tiefling could go quite far, especially if the hags see Cavallah's ouster as part of their plan. It also has more room for growth, as you'd have to keep powerful monsters in line, and wiping out those racist little midgets is good for your bottom line. Plus, imagine all the conversations you could have. . .

Sorry, forgot to mention, the no drugs thing is specifically based on the fact that my character has a soft spot for the underdogs (by this, I mean the "riff-raff") and hates the idea of the poor preying on the poor, with drug use being an example thereof. I guess if rich people want to use it, that's fine, but selling it to poor people and then having them shell out all their food money for drugs doesn't sit well with him. But I might consider working with them anyway, and then trying to shift the focus from selling the drugs to poorer people... hmmm.
Hellcow
03-12-05, 04:18 PM I'm spoiler-tagging my responses, because it does discuss the inner workings of the criminal organizations.

First off, the Boromars are involved in the dreamlily trade too. Dragon's blood is new, but dreamlily is an old business, and it's one of the primary points where Daask is specifically taking away one of the old pillars of the Boromars. So if you feel a need to stay away from drug connections, the Boromars are just as off-limits.

Second, both House Tarkanan and Daask are multiracial. Tarkanan may have a preference for aberrants, but it specifically notes that Thora will take other skilled spies and criminals - and frankly, your character's skills are probably more up their alley than Boromar, which prefers to deal in crimes like smuggling, gambling, and fencing. Daask includes many humans; notably, the most influential figure beyond Cavallah is Ash, a human adept.

But more importantly, entering any of these organizations with the intent of taking over is not a simple matter. Looking to Tarkanan, the description specifically says "Thora is a shrewd judge of character, and if she senses that a new member is working against the house, she makes a ruthless example of him." Daask is ultimately controlled by Sora Katra, of the Daughters of Sora Kell - are you planning to go up against the nation of Droaam itself, or would you be content to be her local director? Beyond this, control of any of these organizations is not simply a matter of personal power. It's an issue of charisma, experience, and respect. You don't just have to be a halfling to be in charge of the Boromars - you have to be a Boromar. It's a family business with a lineage - and a relationship with the watch and city council - that stretches back centuries. If you somehow muscle out the Boromars, it's not the Boromar Clan anymore - it's the Occam's Clan, something the watch has no reason to leave alone. The Tarkanans are deeply loyal to Thora, and see themselves as members of her family; many of them are aberrants she has personally lifted out of disaster and despair. That's going to be a difficult loyalty to overcome, and if you just kill her all you'll do is make a lot of dangerous enemies. Daask ultimately works for the Shadow and the Daughters of Sora Kell, and that's the power its members respect - the person at the top in Sharn is just the franchise manager. It's the same way that killing Lhesh Haruuc wouldn't make you king of Darguun - it would simply collapse the nation into chaos as the other warlords fought for power.

Overall, I have to agree: if your primary concern is being in charge, you should be starting from scratch. Work out a deal with the Boromars to keep them off your back (which is exactly what House Tarkanan did) and go from there. In time your organization may rise to rival or exceed the power of the other groups. But these aren't organizations that are intended to let the recruit off the street take over - no one said criminal gangs had to give everyone an equal chance to rise to the top.
Occams_Razor
03-12-05, 04:42 PM Thanks, Hellcow, that makes a lot of sense, and really helps me focus my aims a bit more. Perhaps I can find a niche, as the Tarkanen did, that works well with the other organizations, so we aren't stepping on each other's toes... hmmm, that sounds good.
Bluebrush
03-12-05, 06:31 PM However, the security chief is a gnome, a rather sensitive position for a non-halfling, meaning the glass ceiling is rather high (unlike the ceilings in the Boromars' homes).

Oh, delightful! ^_^

Five bonus points to you!
lukelightning
03-15-05, 03:00 PM As opposed to organized crime in the real world, which is a bastion of racial harmony and fluffy love?

Looking for a niche? You've got an arcane caster, so there's always "no questions asked" spellcasting.
Kid SixXx
03-15-05, 03:20 PM It seems like you have to be a halfling or a changling to get very high up in the organizations (the monsters are out because of their drug involvement, which I loathe) and my concept was that my character is trying to take over the organization (he's a tiefling rogue/mage/arcane trickster) but I can't take over Boromar, since I'm not a short guy, and I'm not a changling, so I'm a little miffed right now. Any thoughts that might help me?

So you're telling me that in real life, the Yakuza is racist because their Arab membership is very low? :rimshot:

Hellcow pretty much hit the nail on the head. If you wanna be top dog, start your own guild.... and pray you survive the gang war. :evillaugh
fizzbang
03-15-05, 03:25 PM Thanks, Hellcow, that makes a lot of sense, and really helps me focus my aims a bit more. Perhaps I can find a niche, as the Tarkanen did, that works well with the other organizations, so we aren't stepping on each other's toes... hmmm, that sounds good.

Going along with your stated character concept and lukelightning's idea, you could consider a much more magically active gang, and aim to recruit those who are more sensitive to the arcane and extra-planar. Admittedly, it'd be a comparatively small gang, but individual members might be significantly more powerful than the average thug (especially if they're cohorts of a PC with levels above normal!).

Your DM is already allowing you to play a Tiefling, so perhaps they'll run it so that influence of the other planes is a bit more common. in that case, Sharn, with its permanent coterminous plane and deep connections to Khyber, would be a perfect place to set up shop!
lukelightning
03-15-05, 03:29 PM Yeah, you could make yourself the go-to guy for anyone requiring the services of an imp, wanting to hire a succubus seamstress (*hem hem*), or a half-fiend hitman.

Going along with your stated character concept and Kid SixXx's idea, you could consider a much more magically active gang, and aim to recruit those who are more sensitive to the arcane and extra-planar.
Zalaz Mavi
03-15-05, 03:44 PM If you think about it, in the real world just about every gang or other criminal organization recruits along ethnic or national lines. Even multinational groups are composed of smaller, local elements. I don't see why Sharn, or the world of Eberron in general, would operate any differently...
Occams_Razor
03-15-05, 06:09 PM Hmmm, these are all great points. I feel a little sheepish, because I am obviously suffering from a delusion that the thieves' guild in FR should be representative of thieves' guilds everywhere. This does make a lot more sense. Maybe I'll just start a high-roller arcane oriented guild and when I've gathered enough arcane power, subjugate some key halfling and changeling people with potent charm spells... :evillaugh
Demon in Shades of Gray
03-15-05, 07:57 PM Don't forget to play to your skills.

As both a mage AND a tiefling, you've got a better chance at getting extraplanar contacts (does Khyber count as extraplanar? fiends and all that... :confused: ) than anyone else. Surely there's a market for certain INCREDIBLY exotic goods in exchange for a few paltry souls given to demons.

Committing the perfect crime shouldn't be too hard, when the criminal can be banished to another world entirely.

As an Arcane Trickster, you can certainly pull a few over on powerful mages with less to worry about. There'd be a number of ways to capitalize on that.

Start small. Build a party. Then a gang. Then a black-market. Then a full-scale criminal corporation. Who knows? With a cool DM, you'll have all kinds of fun RP situations.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Occams_Razor 03-12-05, 02:00 PM	So, I am playing in a campaign that will be set in Sharn, most likely and I am extremely unhappy with the spectrum of criminal organizations around. It seems like you have to be a halfling or a changling to get very high up in the organizations (the monsters are out because of their drug involvement, which I loathe) and my concept was that my character is trying to take over the organization (he's a tiefling rogue/mage/arcane trickster) but I can't take over Boromar, since I'm not a short guy, and I'm not a changling, so I'm a little miffed right now. Any thoughts that might help me? I am considering paying of Boromar to remain relatively independant, then starting my own organization and then taking out the competition, but that might be harder than I'd like, you know, if the infrastructure is already in place, things are easier... Well, any thoughts would be appreciated.
Charles Phipps 03-12-05, 02:18 PM	It's more realistic. After all the Halflings in Sharn are immigrants. They enjoy their pasta, they have strong sense of family, a promise is a promise. ;-) But it depends largely on how you wish to portray them. The mafia being racially based I rather like with no chance given to even capable outsiders (like the Irishman in Godfather) but its just as likely to be otherwise in other people's games
Talanall 03-12-05, 02:21 PM	You're forgetting House Tarkanen, which is aggressively multiracial. It'll require you to have an abberrant dragonmark, so you won't find shifter, warforged, or changeling members. That won't help you, because you're playing a tiefling and that race hasn't been written directly into Eberron. In any case, you may want to keep in mind that advancement in a criminal organization is likely to assure you (mostly) of a lot of time behind a desk. The upper ranks of the Boromar Clan, in particular, are composed of elite bodyguards and administrators. I don't really think you're losing anything important, if you do as you plan to do Given that the Boromar Clan does not, in fact, emphasize the sorts of things an arcane trickster is good at, you can probably get away with maintaining a less-exalted level of membership (which they certainly do extend to non-halflings), or even just paying them a cut of any profits you make in Sharn. It'd end up being something like the arrangement that House Tarkanen has made with them--you pay them the courtesy of not interfering with their work, and pay them a cut of your profits if you do interfere. They reciprocate by leaving you alone. Both sides profit by not having to engage in a costly turf war in which many people would die. I suppose you could also approach the Lords of Dust, and see if your fiendish heritage counts for anything with them. Maybe you can get a rakshasa to bankroll your operation. The Order of the Emerald Claw might also be willing to work something out, I guess, in order to acquire another source of revenue. Finally, there's the Aurum to consider. It's not quite organized crime, but it's close, advancement is based on merit rather than race, and its members are generally less than squeamish about who they deal with.
dauntus 03-12-05, 02:51 PM	So, I am playing in a campaign that will be set in Sharn, most likely and I am extremely unhappy with the spectrum of criminal organizations around. It seems like you have to be a halfling or a changling to get very high up in the organizations (the monsters are out because of their drug involvement, which I loathe) and my concept was that my character is trying to take over the organization (he's a tiefling rogue/mage/arcane trickster) but I can't take over Boromar, since I'm not a short guy, and I'm not a changling, so I'm a little miffed right now. Any thoughts that might help me? I am considering paying of Boromar to remain relatively independant, then starting my own organization and then taking out the competition, but that might be harder than I'd like, you know, if the infrastructure is already in place, things are easier... Well, any thoughts would be appreciated. Starting your own is the best chance you've got, but you'll have to be very crafty to do it. The Boromars and Daask have no love for competition, and no one has love for tieflings. Before you know it, you could have a Tyrant hunting you down (and if you've been successful, taking over what you've accomplished). Your organization would be played against all parties, and you'd need to have a plan just to establish yourself for an extended period of time. Taking over Boromar from the inside would not be impossible, just ridiculously difficult. Most (not all)of it is halflings, many with family connections to the clan. However, the security chief is a gnome, a rather sensitive position for a non-halfling, meaning the glass ceiling is rather high (unlike the ceilings in the Boromars' homes). If that gnome could be "replaced" with someone sympathetic to your cause, it would go a long way in cementing your success. Also, reconsider Daask. I'm guessing that your objection to it is based in RL concerns, not on your character's distaste. If so, keep in mind that it is a fantasy game, and you can perform actions you would disagree with in real life (like charging a great wyrm head-on) without repercussions or guilt. Daask is the most. . . cosmopolitan of all the gangs, and someone as monstrous as a tiefling could go quite far, especially if the hags see Cavallah's ouster as part of their plan. It also has more room for growth, as you'd have to keep powerful monsters in line, and wiping out those racist little midgets is good for your bottom line. Plus, imagine all the conversations you could have. . .
Occams_Razor 03-12-05, 04:12 PM	Also, reconsider Daask. I'm guessing that your objection to it is based in RL concerns, not on your character's distaste. If so, keep in mind that it is a fantasy game, and you can perform actions you would disagree with in real life (like charging a great wyrm head-on) without repercussions or guilt. Daask is the most. . . cosmopolitan of all the gangs, and someone as monstrous as a tiefling could go quite far, especially if the hags see Cavallah's ouster as part of their plan. It also has more room for growth, as you'd have to keep powerful monsters in line, and wiping out those racist little midgets is good for your bottom line. Plus, imagine all the conversations you could have. . . Sorry, forgot to mention, the no drugs thing is specifically based on the fact that my character has a soft spot for the underdogs (by this, I mean the "riff-raff") and hates the idea of the poor preying on the poor, with drug use being an example thereof. I guess if rich people want to use it, that's fine, but selling it to poor people and then having them shell out all their food money for drugs doesn't sit well with him. But I might consider working with them anyway, and then trying to shift the focus from selling the drugs to poorer people... hmmm.
Hellcow 03-12-05, 04:18 PM	I'm spoiler-tagging my responses, because it does discuss the inner workings of the criminal organizations. First off, the Boromars are involved in the dreamlily trade too. Dragon's blood is new, but dreamlily is an old business, and it's one of the primary points where Daask is specifically taking away one of the old pillars of the Boromars. So if you feel a need to stay away from drug connections, the Boromars are just as off-limits. Second, both House Tarkanan and Daask are multiracial. Tarkanan may have a preference for aberrants, but it specifically notes that Thora will take other skilled spies and criminals - and frankly, your character's skills are probably more up their alley than Boromar, which prefers to deal in crimes like smuggling, gambling, and fencing. Daask includes many humans; notably, the most influential figure beyond Cavallah is Ash, a human adept. But more importantly, entering any of these organizations with the intent of taking over is not a simple matter. Looking to Tarkanan, the description specifically says "Thora is a shrewd judge of character, and if she senses that a new member is working against the house, she makes a ruthless example of him." Daask is ultimately controlled by Sora Katra, of the Daughters of Sora Kell - are you planning to go up against the nation of Droaam itself, or would you be content to be her local director? Beyond this, control of any of these organizations is not simply a matter of personal power. It's an issue of charisma, experience, and respect. You don't just have to be a halfling to be in charge of the Boromars - you have to be a Boromar. It's a family business with a lineage - and a relationship with the watch and city council - that stretches back centuries. If you somehow muscle out the Boromars, it's not the Boromar Clan anymore - it's the Occam's Clan, something the watch has no reason to leave alone. The Tarkanans are deeply loyal to Thora, and see themselves as members of her family; many of them are aberrants she has personally lifted out of disaster and despair. That's going to be a difficult loyalty to overcome, and if you just kill her all you'll do is make a lot of dangerous enemies. Daask ultimately works for the Shadow and the Daughters of Sora Kell, and that's the power its members respect - the person at the top in Sharn is just the franchise manager. It's the same way that killing Lhesh Haruuc wouldn't make you king of Darguun - it would simply collapse the nation into chaos as the other warlords fought for power. Overall, I have to agree: if your primary concern is being in charge, you should be starting from scratch. Work out a deal with the Boromars to keep them off your back (which is exactly what House Tarkanan did) and go from there. In time your organization may rise to rival or exceed the power of the other groups. But these aren't organizations that are intended to let the recruit off the street take over - no one said criminal gangs had to give everyone an equal chance to rise to the top.
Occams_Razor 03-12-05, 04:42 PM	Thanks, Hellcow, that makes a lot of sense, and really helps me focus my aims a bit more. Perhaps I can find a niche, as the Tarkanen did, that works well with the other organizations, so we aren't stepping on each other's toes... hmmm, that sounds good.
Bluebrush 03-12-05, 06:31 PM	However, the security chief is a gnome, a rather sensitive position for a non-halfling, meaning the glass ceiling is rather high (unlike the ceilings in the Boromars' homes). Oh, delightful! ^_^ Five bonus points to you!
lukelightning 03-15-05, 03:00 PM	As opposed to organized crime in the real world, which is a bastion of racial harmony and fluffy love? Looking for a niche? You've got an arcane caster, so there's always "no questions asked" spellcasting.
Kid SixXx 03-15-05, 03:20 PM	It seems like you have to be a halfling or a changling to get very high up in the organizations (the monsters are out because of their drug involvement, which I loathe) and my concept was that my character is trying to take over the organization (he's a tiefling rogue/mage/arcane trickster) but I can't take over Boromar, since I'm not a short guy, and I'm not a changling, so I'm a little miffed right now. Any thoughts that might help me? So you're telling me that in real life, the Yakuza is racist because their Arab membership is very low? :rimshot: Hellcow pretty much hit the nail on the head. If you wanna be top dog, start your own guild.... and pray you survive the gang war. :evillaugh
fizzbang 03-15-05, 03:25 PM	Thanks, Hellcow, that makes a lot of sense, and really helps me focus my aims a bit more. Perhaps I can find a niche, as the Tarkanen did, that works well with the other organizations, so we aren't stepping on each other's toes... hmmm, that sounds good. Going along with your stated character concept and lukelightning's idea, you could consider a much more magically active gang, and aim to recruit those who are more sensitive to the arcane and extra-planar. Admittedly, it'd be a comparatively small gang, but individual members might be significantly more powerful than the average thug (especially if they're cohorts of a PC with levels above normal!). Your DM is already allowing you to play a Tiefling, so perhaps they'll run it so that influence of the other planes is a bit more common. in that case, Sharn, with its permanent coterminous plane and deep connections to Khyber, would be a perfect place to set up shop!
lukelightning 03-15-05, 03:29 PM	Yeah, you could make yourself the go-to guy for anyone requiring the services of an imp, wanting to hire a succubus seamstress (hem hem), or a half-fiend hitman. Going along with your stated character concept and Kid SixXx's idea, you could consider a much more magically active gang, and aim to recruit those who are more sensitive to the arcane and extra-planar.
Zalaz Mavi 03-15-05, 03:44 PM	If you think about it, in the real world just about every gang or other criminal organization recruits along ethnic or national lines. Even multinational groups are composed of smaller, local elements. I don't see why Sharn, or the world of Eberron in general, would operate any differently...
Occams_Razor 03-15-05, 06:09 PM	Hmmm, these are all great points. I feel a little sheepish, because I am obviously suffering from a delusion that the thieves' guild in FR should be representative of thieves' guilds everywhere. This does make a lot more sense. Maybe I'll just start a high-roller arcane oriented guild and when I've gathered enough arcane power, subjugate some key halfling and changeling people with potent charm spells... :evillaugh
Demon in Shades of Gray 03-15-05, 07:57 PM	Don't forget to play to your skills. As both a mage AND a tiefling, you've got a better chance at getting extraplanar contacts (does Khyber count as extraplanar? fiends and all that... :confused: ) than anyone else. Surely there's a market for certain INCREDIBLY exotic goods in exchange for a few paltry souls given to demons. Committing the perfect crime shouldn't be too hard, when the criminal can be banished to another world entirely. As an Arcane Trickster, you can certainly pull a few over on powerful mages with less to worry about. There'd be a number of ways to capitalize on that. Start small. Build a party. Then a gang. Then a black-market. Then a full-scale criminal corporation. Who knows? With a cool DM, you'll have all kinds of fun RP situations.