Post/Author/DateTime	Post
CarrotColossus 04-02-06, 11:01 PM	Oriental classes (ninja, samurai, wu jen, etc) I think are excellent additions to D&D but I was wondering where people here have based them? Classes like samurai have a place within a culture, rather than other classes which can be plonked anywhere. I was looking for suggestions to make their addition work well. EDIT: If this has been addressed, point in the right direction. I can't find any search features on the boards and I didn't want to spend hours scouring the fora.
Nature-boy 04-02-06, 11:10 PM	Keith Baker has suggested making the ninja and samurai available to the Dhaakani in his Dragonshard articles and I've made the drow favored classes for male and female Wu Jen and Shugenja respectively. I feel this gives them a foreign feel that is much more ancient than the modern magical technology of Khorvaire.
Nived 04-02-06, 11:38 PM	All covered in the players guide to Eberron. Samurai aren't sworn to a particular country so much as a specific noble (either of a royal family or a Dragonmarked house). Wu Jen are a magical tadition amongst the barbarians of Argonnessi I think... I don't actually have the book in front of me.
Raziel_Brokodar 04-03-06, 01:20 AM	All covered in the players guide to Eberron. Samurai aren't sworn to a particular country so much as a specific noble (either of a royal family or a Dragonmarked house). Wu Jen are a magical tadition amongst the barbarians of Argonnessi I think... I don't actually have the book in front of me. But you have to remember that the info like that in that book isn't the official word... those are "suggestions"
CarrotColossus 04-03-06, 02:14 AM	Keith Baker has suggested making the ninja and samurai available to the Dhaakani in his Dragonshard articles and I've made the drow favored classes for male and female Wu Jen and Shugenja respectively. I feel this gives them a foreign feel that is much more ancient than the modern magical technology of Khorvaire. Goblin ninja, now that's funny!!!
nuthouse 04-03-06, 02:27 AM	yea a two foot ninja would be funny i llike the ideal i think the should be dragon mark maybe as some kind og fighting house
Khaine 04-03-06, 04:21 AM	Personally, I've banned Samurai and Wu Jen as I really don't see a reason or need for either class in Eberron. Shugenja get re-named as Elementalists in my Eberron, but otherwise are the same as in PGtE. Ninja are the one class that I didn't mess with, though I rationalize the oriental-sounding name as a slang composite of the names of elven and goblin ninka-esqe traditions.
DBlizzard 04-03-06, 04:30 AM	The key thing to remember is that the color text is secondary. It's important to have color, but it's perfectly reasonable to change the color to fit the setting. There is no reason an Oriental character class needs to be Oriental in flavor, beyond what's mechanically built into the class. The ninja is the classic example. Any campaign that has sneaky killers can have ninjas. Just change the name to avoid the stereotypes and use the class. The "Ask Keith" threads have some excellent examples as well as the aforementioned Player's Guide to Eberron.
Nived 04-03-06, 11:06 AM	But you have to remember that the info like that in that book isn't the official word... those are "suggestions" How is stuff printed in "The Players Guide to Eberron" not official?
Amaril 04-03-06, 11:17 AM	How is stuff printed in "The Players Guide to Eberron" not official? IIRC, the book explicitly says they are suggestions, not declarations.
mountc 04-03-06, 11:51 AM	How is stuff printed in "The Players Guide to Eberron" not official? Because you're not required to include any of it. Keep in mind Keith's insistence on differentiating "my Eberron" from all the others. I don't include a lot of the classes as PC options, but still some NPCs have those classes. I think dwarven samurai are not an option for PCs because they would never leave Mror Holds. Wu Jen and Shugenja are (as someone else mentioned) dark elf classes in my Eberron. But again, even the core ECS isn't necessarily binding in the world. You can pick and choose what pieces of information you want to include in your Eberron. All the other books are listed as supplements, which means you can pick and choose as you wish.
Gaunt's Ghost 04-03-06, 01:47 PM	The Oriental classes are really easy to place into Eberron. A lot of people will probably disagree with me on this, but I really see Eberron as having the most Asiatic influence of all the D&D settings (with the obvious exception of Oriental Adventures). The Soveriegn Host is similar in design to Hinduism (the conglomeration of various deities into one pantheon, and internal seperation therein). The Primogenitor Dragons can easily be viewed as the Brahman/Vishnu/Shiva triumvarate (as Sibyeris/Eberron/Khyber). The religion of Adar (and the Kalashtar), il-Yannah (sp?), is Zen Buddhism with psionics. The artwork depictions of the world show alot of Asiatic influence in dress and architecture (though architecture tends to run more Middle Eastern, than full blown Asia). The cultures of Sarlona (both Riedran/Inspired and Adaran/Kalashtar) show a lot of Asiatic influence: belief in reincarnation [NOTE: Yes, other faiths believe in reincarnation, but the Sarlonan tendencies are very Hindu/Buddhist in design], the Riedran feudal system screams "Feudal Japan meets Confuciusism" to me, and the very history of Sarlona is similar to the Warring States period of China or the massive civil war that caused the rise of the Tokogawa (sp?) shogunate in Japan. From everything I can tell, the ancient goblinoid culture had a strong feudal Japan influence in its design. And the list goes on. So it really shouldn't be hard to place Oriental Classes in the world. But even if you disagree with me, its still relatively easy to place them. Samurai are warriors concerned with (the almost Platonic concept of) honor and its this devotion to their ideal that drives them. Can't Fighters or Paladins have that same drive for honor? Sure, but Fighters are generally more mercenary in nature and the fantasy knight model is generally more concerned with his personal honor, while the samurai is usually concerned more with his feudal lord's honor. Paladins have the same devotion, but rather focus it on their deity/religious belief and the concepts of Law and Good (or whatever alignment forces, should you choose to use variant paladin classes). Ninjas are (in terms of pure mechanics), more or less rogues who focus on spying and assassination. In flavor terms, they are the threat in the night. They are mysterious element that no one can really defend against. Rogues tend to fill in a more Jack-of-all-Trades kind of role in the party. The Ninja, with its slightly less class skills, definitely fills the steathly killer role. I could see Wu-Jen and Shugenja being common among the gnomes of Zilargo and to a much smaller extent among Houses Orien, Cannith, and Lyrandar due to their connection with the elements (especially in terms of elemental binding). And the possibilities are endless.
Romulus LoneWolf 04-03-06, 04:33 PM	I think the Final Fantasy series would make a good model for the blending of Western and Eastern fantasy concepts.. Most FF worlds clearly seem based on western cultures, but also include the occasional nod to oriental (particularly japanese) culture: Edge the Ninja from FF4, and Cyan Garamonde from FF6 (originally a Samurai in the japanese version). So, it's not as if there's no precedent anywhere for adding oriental cultures to an otherwise western setting. Edit: That having been said, I just don't like the Complete Warrior's Samurai Class on the basis of it's mechanics. I'd rather use the Cavalier class (from Green Ronin's Cavalier's Handbook)..
Nature-boy 04-03-06, 04:58 PM	The Soveriegn Host is similar in design to Hinduism (the conglomeration of various deities into one pantheon, and internal seperation therein). The Primogenitor Dragons can easily be viewed as the Brahman/Vishnu/Shiva triumvarate (as Sibyeris/Eberron/Khyber). It may be my own ethnocentrism talking, but I see the Sovereign Host as the Greek pantheon and the Primogenitor Dragons as Zeus, Poseidon, and Hates.
Bluebrush 04-03-06, 05:13 PM	Most FF worlds clearly seem based on western cultures, but also include the occasional nod to oriental (particularly japanese) culture: Edge the Ninja from FF4, and Cyan Garamonde from FF6 (originally a Samurai in the japanese version).I'm playing a Fallen Knight in an online game, using the 3.0 samurai to work the Mechanics. My Bastard Sword is named Tempest and my short sabre was named Cloud. Though since it fell into the ocean I've taken to using a cutlass named Squall. Also, I'd suggest that The Trust are the perfect group for deploying gninja assassins.
mhacdebhandia 04-03-06, 07:12 PM	Goblin ninja, now that's funny!!! There's nothing funny about Dhakaani goblins. They'll cut you.
AvonRekaes 04-04-06, 05:05 AM	Personally, I use Samurai and Sohei as Reidran classes in my game. Both are drawn from human stock and indoctrinated into believing their Inspired rulers are as gods. (Like all reidrans). Samurai are more concerned with upholding the honor of their Inspired lords, and train in how to maintain that honor in combat as well as more diplomatic settings. Samurai are more likely to be used as bodyguards than Sohei, and consequently can be found in more places in Khorvaire, with a small squad of samurai acompanying a deligation of Inspired Ambassidors.. Sohei are trained into a ferverent zeal, worshiping the Inspired with such ferocity as to gain power from their devotion. (Ki frenzy). I alter the Sohei class for Reidran Sohei by upping the Hit Die to d12s and making all it's saves good, while stripping it of it's spell progression entirely. The Inspired have driven out all form of magic from Reidra, and would not train Sohei to gain spells from their devotion. Sohei are more likely to be used as shock-troopers in mass battles, and see the most frequent use in the seige of Adar, but there are some Sohei among the troops that the Inspired have sent to Q'barra.
The Necromancer King 04-04-06, 06:29 AM	This is likely going to be the least popular idea ever posted on these boards (with perhaps the singular exception of a wood elf ninja...), but I've been batting around the potential of warforged adopting the samurai class en masse. I'm not sure how I would work it, exactly, but I have a great image in my head. The sun glitters off the snow-capped peaks of the Brelish mountains, cascading down into the greenery below and warming all it touches. Nestled in a forested valley rests a small village, a handfull of houses made from the resources readilly at hand. A thin stream trickles down from the melting snow high above. Smoke rises lazilly from chimneys, curling about the treetops with slothful abandon. It is a picturesque place, hewn from local elements. The village has no farms however; its inhabitants have no need of food, nor of water to drink. Instead, only those forged for war live here, discarded or forgotten in the aftermath of the Treaty of Thronehold. Man-shaped constructions of wood and metal, they have fewer needs than their fleshy creators. They are better suited to this wilderness, and to the seclusion it offers. They still train daily, in the art of sword and spell, stealth, sabotage. Skills are like tools; left too long, they rust and chip. They must be maintained, and for that they practice. Sometimes, there is a threat. Some band of goblins in search of a quick, unearned meal, or humans seeking to plunder the riches of the mountains. They are dispatched quickly, practice having honed their skills to a razor's edge. The one called Rock is their leader, a small warforged, built to scout ahead for the human armies. She is quick and resourceful, a master of stealth and surprise, but knowledgable in the ways of honorable combat. Some she trains to fight in the shadows, others she teaches to fight with skill, not deciet. Her students learn well, and her dual philosophies have become the basis of the community. When she needs something done the right way, she sends her samurai. When the right way fails, she sends her ninja. Regardless, when Rock needs something done, it gets done. A little bare-bones, and still needs some fleshing out, but it's bed-time for me, and my writing abilities are severly crippled at the moment. I'll see about fleshing it out later. Might make a decent adventure setting...
darkthought 04-04-06, 09:36 AM	House Denieth could also be a source of Samurai. They'd fight to uphold the honor of their House by always completing their contracts. House Phirlan and House Thuranni could be a source of ninjas, to the point of having small ninja villages hidden around Khovaire where training takes place. Heck, there could be a "shadow war" between the houses that nobody else sees. I'd also give Shadow Magic to the two houses of shadow, but that's a different thread. I like the idea of Hobgoblin Dhakaani Samurai. Perhaps that's where Deneith got the idea? Maybe. Goblin ninja, now that's funny!!! That's right, laugh. Laugh until they kill you're whole family, "accidently" make noise to wake you, and after you've been reduced to a blubbering fool by your own grief, they will then kill you by taking your head. SLOWLY. Don't make fun of the Dhakaani. It took a planar invasion to break their empire.
Nature-boy 04-04-06, 12:02 PM	Personally, I use Samurai and Sohei as Reidran classes in my game. Both are drawn from human stock and indoctrinated into believing their Inspired rulers are as gods. (Like all reidrans). Samurai are more concerned with upholding the honor of their Inspired lords, and train in how to maintain that honor in combat as well as more diplomatic settings. Samurai are more likely to be used as bodyguards than Sohei, and consequently can be found in more places in Khorvaire, with a small squad of samurai acompanying a deligation of Inspired Ambassidors.. I really like this idea. It meshes well with the eastern Kalashtar monkish feel. And are the Sohei from OA?
Raziel_Brokodar 04-04-06, 06:13 PM	Goblin ninja, now that's funny!!! No, actually it makes sense in Eberron... it's not 'funny' at all. There's nothing funny about Dhakaani goblins. They'll cut you. Well said. Also remember.... Goblins aren't "GAHHHHHH I is a goblin!!!" This is Eberron, nobody should include core D&D or FR bias in their Eberron games.... Orcs are evil monsters, let's kill them on sight... no, they're not that way in Eberron.
Raziel_Brokodar 04-04-06, 06:16 PM	IIRC, the book explicitly says they are suggestions, not declarations. True, and the developers of the book just want to make money. Keith doesn't like subraces, he made the setting... but who bought the setting? WoTC... enough said.
AvonRekaes 04-04-06, 09:01 PM	I really like this idea. It meshes well with the eastern Kalashtar monkish feel. And are the Sohei from OA? Sohei are found in OA, yes, but you should also see about getting a hold of Dragon #318 which updates it to 3.5 (A fairly major overhaul). I don't quite see how my description fits with the Kalashtar. The sohei in my game are fanatical soldiers trained by the Inspired. I could maybe see the Kalashtar coming up with the sohei tradition simultaneously, but their Ki frenzy wouldn't come from fanatical zeal for the Inspired.
CarrotColossus 04-04-06, 09:03 PM	That's right, laugh. Laugh until they kill you're whole family, "accidently" make noise to wake you, and after you've been reduced to a blubbering fool by your own grief, they will then kill you by taking your head. SLOWLY. Don't make fun of the Dhakaani. It took a planar invasion to break their empire. Yes but goblins are still ugly midgets. No amount of 'we were once part of a continent wide empire' background will change they are still little ugly dudes. That said, I love the treatment of goblinoids and orcs in Eberron. They actually have character, they aren't just low level fodder for adventurers.
Khaine 04-06-06, 03:52 AM	Personally, I use Samurai and Sohei as Reidran classes in my game. Both are drawn from human stock and indoctrinated into believing their Inspired rulers are as gods. (Like all reidrans). I like it! Consider it stolen ;)
JulesCARV 04-06-06, 04:12 AM	Our party has a Dhakaani goblin ninja. She's hella scary. Her hide and move silently checks are something like +15 at 3rd level, and of course she can use ghost step to disappear even under observation.