Post/Author/DateTime	Post
DarkerDreams 04-18-05, 11:26 AM	Branching off a discussion on the Ask Kieth thread. here's the prior discussion. several times it's been said that outsiders of various types tend to go back to the "spawning point" and be reborn conserving their numbers etc. My question is this; is it conservation of numbers or conservation of energy? the difference being that if you kill a rajah you could get back a nusance- which makes the output of effort to annhiliate the big guys worthwhile (as opposed to the potentially greater effort of capturing them). if it conserves energy then the new "spawn" might be a big outsider, or some successfull outsider could suddenly find itself gaining power... personally, I lean towards the second and intend to use that kind of logic, but I was wondering what you thought. Not Keith, but my thought would be that you'd get a new Outsider of the exact same type as the destroyed one. Otherwise, you'd probably see something a lot more like the Specials in Rising Stars - Rajahs going out of their way to kill slightly weaker Rajahs so as to increase their power level. Seeing as there's no mention in the ECS of such behaviors among any types of Outsiders, it seems safe to assume that the only thing you kill off when you kack a specific Outsider is their point of view - a destroyed Pit Fiend creates a brand new one, not a Lemure. in the end there can be only one? a DM I played under (prior to eberron's release) actually ruled that every time a demon or devil was killed a lemur or dretch spawned which would- if it eventually advanced to being self-aware- have the potential to "remember" who it had been. Meanwhile the excess "power" of the creature was trapped elsewhere and could be used by various entities (and the whimsical planes themselves) to "level" or "improve" exemplary demons and devils. it was an interesting idea that caused some of our long running characters no end to pain. The idea that when a quori, rakasha, etc is slain its power returns to some extra-dimensional pool of potential (as opposed to being absorbed by the highlander which took the other's head) prevents that kind of behaviour outside rituals designed especially for that purpose (which are discussed in the ECS). While the indication in the ECS is that the outsider itself is permenantly erased its power may not be. The question is; is that power expressed by the total number of outsiders of that type (thus- a slain pit fiend creates a new pit fiend/a new lemur that may someday advance) OR the total power level of those type of entity (a new lemur and possibly other outsiders of the type advance. Which only becomes truely scary if the the total number of those entity start to drop AND new ones are prevented from being formed). anywho, if this is something worth discussing at length we can start a new thread, otherwise I'll just wait to see what mr. Baker's take is. On the subject of a 'pool of power' how do xp expenditures by outsiders fit in? If a rakshasa cast a wish spell or creates a fiendish artifact, will it get that power back during its existence? Will expended essence permanently reduce the power of the rakshasa pool? (until the artifact is destroyed, that is.) What about the Inspired who are supposed to rapidly gain experience as their levels approach the power of their possessing Quori spirit?
DarkerDreams 04-18-05, 11:40 AM	There's been a long tradition of ignoring XP expendatures for NPCs as the flip side of NPCs not getting traditional XP awards. While I don't necessarrilly agree with that it is easier than creating some convoluted way of tracking XP gains and losses for NPCs. As for what happens to that energy when spent I'd say it goes back to the general pool. Sure, that means there's a chance the outsider spending it could get it back- but with thousands or millions of others fighting for those limited resources it's just as likely that another could get it and use that power against the "original" owner. Energy bound into items would be removed from "circulation" until the item is destroyed. But given the amount of that energy that exists, and the relitively minor amount that's going into any given item (and the fact that most items are going to be created using "generic magic" opposed to "outsider goo"- though this would be an interesting potential side effect of the "bind elemental" feat if certain expanded rules (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=379561) were used)... as for Inspired "super leveling" I don't see that as an expendature of the outsider energy. at various points it has been noted that mortals (including dragons and elves) have a potential advantage over outsiders in that they have an unlimited power supply (compaired to quori pool or rakasha pool which, while immense and automatically able to spit new immortal outsiders out) allows them essentially unbounded growth both personally and in terms of numbers (as limited by mortality rates). In other words; I see a pit fiend as equal to dozens of lemurs, while the vessel that a pit fiend inhabits learns from the fiend but doesn't draw on his energy to improve. this gives vessal-inhabiting fiends a boost on the ability to get power for their side, but does so at the cost of having to work through mortal intermediaries...