Perils of the Demon Wastes [Archive] - Wizards Community

Perils of the Demon Wastes [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
El Salvador
12-02-04, 07:55 AM Well, I'm running my own campaign in Eberron (12th level) and as part of an ongoing quest, the PC's get to go to the Demon Wastes. The information given in the eberron book is wonderful, but there are a few things left out. Here are my questions.

1: In the guide, it says that the 'extreem' cold from the natural climate, as well as the occasional 'extreem' heat from volcanoes, forces players to take a fortitude save every hour to avoid taking damage. No damage is listed, but it gives you the page in the DMG that talks about heat and cold damage (302-303). If you look at the page, 'extreem' cold is the coldest you can possibly get to, with temperatures in the -40 range. It is the same for heat. PC's check every minute and automatically take damage. This doesn't fit in with the writing in the Eberron book, as it says checks for this 'extreem' cold and heat are taken every hour. I can only assume that using the word extreem was for flavor. Look at the page in the dmg. The only time you check for damage every hour, and only then, is for serious cold or serious heat. This is what I'm assuming they meant. Does anyone think otherwise?

2: Just a question to everyone out there who has looked closely at this part of the book. In the abandoned metropolis in the middle of the wastes, the flavor text has some interesting things in it. Apparently, anyone who makes it through the unending storm around the city finds themselves garbed in clothes remnicient of what the demons wore when they lived here. This is really cool. Does anyone have any suggestions as to what they think demon clothing actually looks like, though?

Thanks for any participation in helping. I need to get these issues resolved before the weekend. ;)
TheRedRobedWizard
12-02-04, 09:05 AM In response to the "What do Demons wear?" question:

Think of High Renaissance clothing. Very well made, very nice textures and embroidery...

... all made out of the skin and souls of babies.

-TRRW
El Salvador
12-02-04, 09:31 AM ... all made out of the skin and souls of babies.
Yuck, I don't think my players would like that last bit. :yuck:
CzarGarrett
12-02-04, 10:37 AM Yuck, I don't think my players would like that last bit. :yuck:

Never heard the phrase "smooth as a baby's behind?"
TheRedRobedWizard
12-02-04, 10:44 AM Well, El Salvador, they are *DEMONS*, after all? What'd you expect, synthetic fabrics so that no living things were harmed for their clothes?

I'm pretty sure the evilest evil would just love a baby-skin jacket and soul-stitched shirt with matching pantaloons.

-TRRW
El Salvador
12-02-04, 11:39 AM If you look at the text in the Eberron book, it states that clothing and weapons, as well as any other equipment, resembles the styles of the demons while the city was still lived in. This means the age of the Demon Dragon wars in Eberron. There were none of the humanoid races around at all, just dragons, and demons, and apparently coulatels. That means that demons could not have worn anything like baby-skin, as there were no humans, elves, giants, dwarves, etc around yet.
nyysjan
12-02-04, 11:53 AM baby dragons :(
Peter the Hegemon
12-02-04, 01:00 PM So they have dragonhide armor/clothing? Sweet.
CzarGarrett
12-02-04, 01:09 PM it states that clothing and weapons, as well as any other equipment, resembles the styles of the demons while the city was still lived in.

That means if the style was to have a long coat with no sleeves over a button down shirt that was frilly, back in the day it might have been a dragonskin coat and coatl feather shirt, but now it could be giant-skin coats with gnome-skin shirts.

Resembling the style doesn't mean using the same materials, nor does it mean looking exactly like what was worn.

Plus, some of the Lords of Dust are supposed to have agents around Khorvaire. So why wouldn't they pick up a few styles from them when they report/bring slaves/etc?
El Salvador
12-02-04, 08:20 PM I think you mis interpret what I am trying to accomplish, CzarGarret. The clothing thing is part of the powerful illusion magic that suffuses the ancient city of the demons. the change in clothing is akin to a disguise self spell. The equipment is changed to resemble clothing that fits into what demons would have worn or used hundreds thousands of years ago when the city was destroyed. It does not have anything to do with the current residents, and their equipment would be changed as well when they enter the city.
ThanisKartaleon
12-03-04, 04:51 AM 1. You're likely right. Whatever method you use, make sure it lets the players know that they are not in a hospitable area. The Mournlands has more places of rest and respite than the Wastes.

2. whatever the style is, it should remind the players that they are indeed within the walls of the most evil, vile city on Eberron. Not for the faint of heart. If you're squeemish about baby skin, humanoid or otherwise, there's also skeletal jackets, seemingly gossamer clothing woven from mortal souls, etc. Colorwise? Mostly blacks and reds. Spikes should jut from random areas, masks of death and decay should appear, grinning demonic faces engraved on shoulder plates, shin guards, and anywhere else. A lot of demonic clothing should appear suitable for combat as well. Steel polished to mirror shine, but reflecting a twisted reality. The character might also end up seeming to wear only a few bits of barbed chain for clothing, arranged in a web or some other more sinister pattern, anything reminiscent of sin. Random peircings could also be a feature, and skull necklaces or pentagrams. Another clothing style might be floor length robes that would conjure to mind a warlock. Or straight black or brown, ragged robes of a diseased priest. Various vermin might decorate the garb as well. This might be beyond the effects of the area, but the characters might also manifest strange and horrifying tattoos, or illusory grafts of disgusting body parts, like an eye appearing in a character's palm, or a mouth with jagged teeth on their stomach.

Hope this helps ^^
LazarusX
12-03-04, 04:54 AM Never heard the phrase "smooth as a baby's behind?"

Still lauging and crying all at the same time over this, half an hour later....the images just won't leave me :(

I don't think I'm sleeping tonight
CzarGarrett
12-03-04, 10:20 AM I think you mis interpret what I am trying to accomplish, CzarGarret. The clothing thing is part of the powerful illusion magic that suffuses the ancient city of the demons. the change in clothing is akin to a disguise self spell. The equipment is changed to resemble clothing that fits into what demons would have worn or used hundreds thousands of years ago when the city was destroyed. It does not have anything to do with the current residents, and their equipment would be changed as well when they enter the city.

Ah. Gotcha.

Still lauging and crying all at the same time over this, half an hour later....the images just won't leave me

I don't think I'm sleeping tonight

Voltaire: I an accustomed to seeing things in my sleep that lunatics see in their minds
wizard of oz
12-03-04, 11:24 PM when I think of what demons and devils wear I think of Interview with a Vampire. Loius specifically.

as for being disturbed with wearing baby. how could you tell it was baby and not any other leather.
Gurv
12-03-04, 11:46 PM Look at the pictures of the rakshasa in the MM and the MMIII. Use those styles of clothes, and add any extreme forms of debauchey that you can think of to the setting.

Make everything seem perfectly normal, with signs of wealth and affluence everywhere. Festive music. Show the players what a splendid place Ashtakala was, with handsome rakshasa nobles greeting one another in the streets and interacting in the most civilized and courtous ways. Elegance, civility, and dignity.

Then throw in the creepiness. Nothing that can be interacted with: a child's scream of torment. The overwhelming stench of decay. The sourceless toiling of a bell. If they are going to interact with actual inhabitants of the city, then it should be difficult for them to realize the difference until it has already started. Remember that all their gear has been changed by a disguise self effect, so things they don't use daily may be a little tricky to find.
El Salvador
12-04-04, 02:29 AM Thats kind of what I was thinking. although for the campaign I'm running, it will be a lot beter to let the PC's know they are seeing the real thing. most of the time :plotting:

Lets have some fun now. What do you think a demonic version of a fullblade sized for a large character would look like. (halfgiant PC)

I was thinking maybe making it black, with skulls, and a black traling aura that let off a moaning sound when swung. and of course the hilt would be made out of bone.
grey muse
12-04-04, 02:43 AM I believe (regarding the environment) that the ECSB reference to "extreme heat" and "extreme cold" is intended to be indiciative of the degree of temperature, not actually the classification "Extreme" in the DMG.

grey muse
El Salvador
12-04-04, 02:46 AM Yeah. I just threw that one out there to see if anyone thought otherwise. Looks like my first guess was okay.
Flame_Drake
12-04-04, 01:38 PM Another thing to take into account about the illusions in the city is that many of the fiends are under massive illusions of grander. They could try and image the city to what itt would be if they had never fallen in the first place or if they came to power again. I wouldn't put it past the fiends to have living slaves of various sorts and illusion of people under their beck and call, so there could be illusions of gnomes, dwarves, elves and such with the city also.
Ashaman Joe
12-04-04, 04:37 PM I don't think their clothing would be in a Renaissance style. Rakasha have always given me a more Persia/India vibe. And while they may be Evil, they don't seem crazy Evil. While its very likely they would keep slaves and enjoy destruction, I don't think they would go all out I'm-Evil-And-I-Just-Gotta-Show-It. Personally, I would see them wearing fine silks and having an aristocratic flair to their actions. But since this is an entire city of Demons, there's going to be a definate class system (they are Lawful Evil, after all. Public punishment might be very common, and law would probably be very harsh (the PCs won't be feeling this law, but they might see it. Every society is going to have lawbreakers, even an Evil one).
nyysjan
12-04-04, 04:44 PM especially an evil one
MageofMyth
12-04-04, 06:52 PM I always think that pastels are the most evil colors. Nothing says real evil like pastel. :D

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
El Salvador 12-02-04, 07:55 AM	Well, I'm running my own campaign in Eberron (12th level) and as part of an ongoing quest, the PC's get to go to the Demon Wastes. The information given in the eberron book is wonderful, but there are a few things left out. Here are my questions. 1: In the guide, it says that the 'extreem' cold from the natural climate, as well as the occasional 'extreem' heat from volcanoes, forces players to take a fortitude save every hour to avoid taking damage. No damage is listed, but it gives you the page in the DMG that talks about heat and cold damage (302-303). If you look at the page, 'extreem' cold is the coldest you can possibly get to, with temperatures in the -40 range. It is the same for heat. PC's check every minute and automatically take damage. This doesn't fit in with the writing in the Eberron book, as it says checks for this 'extreem' cold and heat are taken every hour. I can only assume that using the word extreem was for flavor. Look at the page in the dmg. The only time you check for damage every hour, and only then, is for serious cold or serious heat. This is what I'm assuming they meant. Does anyone think otherwise? 2: Just a question to everyone out there who has looked closely at this part of the book. In the abandoned metropolis in the middle of the wastes, the flavor text has some interesting things in it. Apparently, anyone who makes it through the unending storm around the city finds themselves garbed in clothes remnicient of what the demons wore when they lived here. This is really cool. Does anyone have any suggestions as to what they think demon clothing actually looks like, though? Thanks for any participation in helping. I need to get these issues resolved before the weekend. ;)
TheRedRobedWizard 12-02-04, 09:05 AM	In response to the "What do Demons wear?" question: Think of High Renaissance clothing. Very well made, very nice textures and embroidery... ... all made out of the skin and souls of babies. -TRRW
El Salvador 12-02-04, 09:31 AM	... all made out of the skin and souls of babies. Yuck, I don't think my players would like that last bit. :yuck:
CzarGarrett 12-02-04, 10:37 AM	Yuck, I don't think my players would like that last bit. :yuck: Never heard the phrase "smooth as a baby's behind?"
TheRedRobedWizard 12-02-04, 10:44 AM	Well, El Salvador, they are DEMONS, after all? What'd you expect, synthetic fabrics so that no living things were harmed for their clothes? I'm pretty sure the evilest evil would just love a baby-skin jacket and soul-stitched shirt with matching pantaloons. -TRRW
El Salvador 12-02-04, 11:39 AM	If you look at the text in the Eberron book, it states that clothing and weapons, as well as any other equipment, resembles the styles of the demons while the city was still lived in. This means the age of the Demon Dragon wars in Eberron. There were none of the humanoid races around at all, just dragons, and demons, and apparently coulatels. That means that demons could not have worn anything like baby-skin, as there were no humans, elves, giants, dwarves, etc around yet.
nyysjan 12-02-04, 11:53 AM	baby dragons :(
Peter the Hegemon 12-02-04, 01:00 PM	So they have dragonhide armor/clothing? Sweet.
CzarGarrett 12-02-04, 01:09 PM	it states that clothing and weapons, as well as any other equipment, resembles the styles of the demons while the city was still lived in. That means if the style was to have a long coat with no sleeves over a button down shirt that was frilly, back in the day it might have been a dragonskin coat and coatl feather shirt, but now it could be giant-skin coats with gnome-skin shirts. Resembling the style doesn't mean using the same materials, nor does it mean looking exactly like what was worn. Plus, some of the Lords of Dust are supposed to have agents around Khorvaire. So why wouldn't they pick up a few styles from them when they report/bring slaves/etc?
El Salvador 12-02-04, 08:20 PM	I think you mis interpret what I am trying to accomplish, CzarGarret. The clothing thing is part of the powerful illusion magic that suffuses the ancient city of the demons. the change in clothing is akin to a disguise self spell. The equipment is changed to resemble clothing that fits into what demons would have worn or used hundreds thousands of years ago when the city was destroyed. It does not have anything to do with the current residents, and their equipment would be changed as well when they enter the city.
ThanisKartaleon 12-03-04, 04:51 AM	1. You're likely right. Whatever method you use, make sure it lets the players know that they are not in a hospitable area. The Mournlands has more places of rest and respite than the Wastes. 2. whatever the style is, it should remind the players that they are indeed within the walls of the most evil, vile city on Eberron. Not for the faint of heart. If you're squeemish about baby skin, humanoid or otherwise, there's also skeletal jackets, seemingly gossamer clothing woven from mortal souls, etc. Colorwise? Mostly blacks and reds. Spikes should jut from random areas, masks of death and decay should appear, grinning demonic faces engraved on shoulder plates, shin guards, and anywhere else. A lot of demonic clothing should appear suitable for combat as well. Steel polished to mirror shine, but reflecting a twisted reality. The character might also end up seeming to wear only a few bits of barbed chain for clothing, arranged in a web or some other more sinister pattern, anything reminiscent of sin. Random peircings could also be a feature, and skull necklaces or pentagrams. Another clothing style might be floor length robes that would conjure to mind a warlock. Or straight black or brown, ragged robes of a diseased priest. Various vermin might decorate the garb as well. This might be beyond the effects of the area, but the characters might also manifest strange and horrifying tattoos, or illusory grafts of disgusting body parts, like an eye appearing in a character's palm, or a mouth with jagged teeth on their stomach. Hope this helps ^^
LazarusX 12-03-04, 04:54 AM	Never heard the phrase "smooth as a baby's behind?" Still lauging and crying all at the same time over this, half an hour later....the images just won't leave me :( I don't think I'm sleeping tonight
CzarGarrett 12-03-04, 10:20 AM	I think you mis interpret what I am trying to accomplish, CzarGarret. The clothing thing is part of the powerful illusion magic that suffuses the ancient city of the demons. the change in clothing is akin to a disguise self spell. The equipment is changed to resemble clothing that fits into what demons would have worn or used hundreds thousands of years ago when the city was destroyed. It does not have anything to do with the current residents, and their equipment would be changed as well when they enter the city. Ah. Gotcha. Still lauging and crying all at the same time over this, half an hour later....the images just won't leave me I don't think I'm sleeping tonight Voltaire: I an accustomed to seeing things in my sleep that lunatics see in their minds
wizard of oz 12-03-04, 11:24 PM	when I think of what demons and devils wear I think of Interview with a Vampire. Loius specifically. as for being disturbed with wearing baby. how could you tell it was baby and not any other leather.
Gurv 12-03-04, 11:46 PM	Look at the pictures of the rakshasa in the MM and the MMIII. Use those styles of clothes, and add any extreme forms of debauchey that you can think of to the setting. Make everything seem perfectly normal, with signs of wealth and affluence everywhere. Festive music. Show the players what a splendid place Ashtakala was, with handsome rakshasa nobles greeting one another in the streets and interacting in the most civilized and courtous ways. Elegance, civility, and dignity. Then throw in the creepiness. Nothing that can be interacted with: a child's scream of torment. The overwhelming stench of decay. The sourceless toiling of a bell. If they are going to interact with actual inhabitants of the city, then it should be difficult for them to realize the difference until it has already started. Remember that all their gear has been changed by a disguise self effect, so things they don't use daily may be a little tricky to find.
El Salvador 12-04-04, 02:29 AM	Thats kind of what I was thinking. although for the campaign I'm running, it will be a lot beter to let the PC's know they are seeing the real thing. most of the time :plotting: Lets have some fun now. What do you think a demonic version of a fullblade sized for a large character would look like. (halfgiant PC) I was thinking maybe making it black, with skulls, and a black traling aura that let off a moaning sound when swung. and of course the hilt would be made out of bone.
grey muse 12-04-04, 02:43 AM	I believe (regarding the environment) that the ECSB reference to "extreme heat" and "extreme cold" is intended to be indiciative of the degree of temperature, not actually the classification "Extreme" in the DMG. grey muse
El Salvador 12-04-04, 02:46 AM	Yeah. I just threw that one out there to see if anyone thought otherwise. Looks like my first guess was okay.
Flame_Drake 12-04-04, 01:38 PM	Another thing to take into account about the illusions in the city is that many of the fiends are under massive illusions of grander. They could try and image the city to what itt would be if they had never fallen in the first place or if they came to power again. I wouldn't put it past the fiends to have living slaves of various sorts and illusion of people under their beck and call, so there could be illusions of gnomes, dwarves, elves and such with the city also.
Ashaman Joe 12-04-04, 04:37 PM	I don't think their clothing would be in a Renaissance style. Rakasha have always given me a more Persia/India vibe. And while they may be Evil, they don't seem crazy Evil. While its very likely they would keep slaves and enjoy destruction, I don't think they would go all out I'm-Evil-And-I-Just-Gotta-Show-It. Personally, I would see them wearing fine silks and having an aristocratic flair to their actions. But since this is an entire city of Demons, there's going to be a definate class system (they are Lawful Evil, after all. Public punishment might be very common, and law would probably be very harsh (the PCs won't be feeling this law, but they might see it. Every society is going to have lawbreakers, even an Evil one).
nyysjan 12-04-04, 04:44 PM	especially an evil one
MageofMyth 12-04-04, 06:52 PM	I always think that pastels are the most evil colors. Nothing says real evil like pastel. :D