Petrified Warforged [Archive] - Wizards Community

Petrified Warforged [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
jarec
05-16-05, 06:30 AM Any thoughts on this welcome. One of the players on my Campaign recently had a problem with a cockatrice and his Warforged got Petrified. The problem I have now is how to play this out as a GM. Firstly I presume the organic (i.e. wood) bits of the warforged got pertified not the metal bits. Secondly I'm going to allow Stone to Flesh to turn him back. The big problem is that finding a Sorcered at level 12 to perform Stone to Flesh is going to be a major headache in Eberron.

Can anyone suggest any ways to progress this. I'm currently running Whisper of the Vampire's Blade and don't want this to unduly sidetrack the story.
Sorcerer
05-16-05, 07:27 AM Just let the spell work. He'll get his character back, and don't let the wood and metal bits get to ya.

The ongoing story is the important part. This is a minor glitch, something that happens to "living constructs" all the time. If he thinks this is bad, wait till he takes damage from a rust monster...
Just another user
05-16-05, 08:28 AM If yiou think about it you'll notice that when a character is petrified by any mean, even his equipment is turned to stone, no matter if it is leather, wood, metal or other, and stone to flesh restore everything to its original state.

The same apply to a warforged body.
Applecrow
05-16-05, 11:26 AM you only need to find a 9th level spellcaster. Break Enchantment will get rid of petrification and its on both arcane and divine spell lists. :D
Kid SixXx
05-16-05, 11:38 AM you only need to find a 9th level spellcaster. Break Enchantment will get rid of petrification and its on both arcane and divine spell lists. :D

Probably easier to find an Artificer to make a Break Enchantment scroll than it would be to find someone to cast the spell, given the +2CL that Artificers get towards Item Creation.

Wheel the petrified WF up to the local House Cannith enclave and all should be well, provided you have proper monetary compensation..

BTW, why is the player miffed? It's not like WF are immune to petrification, so he should've expected such attack to have a chance of success.
tug3000
05-16-05, 03:27 PM What about paralysis? Warforged are immune to it according to the ECS. But can they still be "paralyzed with fear" by things like the Mummy's "Despair" effect?
Kid SixXx
05-16-05, 03:40 PM What about paralysis? Warforged are immune to it according to the ECS. But can they still be "paralyzed with fear" by things like the Mummy's "Despair" effect?

WF are immune to abilities that cause physical paralysis, but not mental effects that cause immobility.

I could not use a paralytic substance on one, but I could cast a Command spell and then say "Stop!", or use some similar Enchantment / Charm spell, and effectively paralyze a WF should he fail his save.
tug3000
05-16-05, 06:36 PM WF are immune to abilities that cause physical paralysis, but not mental effects that cause immobility.
So which one is the Mummy's Despair? Abilities that causes physical paralysis or mental effect that causes immobility?
Gnome_Dragon_Disciple
05-16-05, 07:28 PM Despair itself is a mental effect and would apply to warforged. The difficulty is in determining if the Despair effect is a necromantic one or not, which would also determine the success of its effect on a warforged.
Gurv
05-16-05, 07:49 PM That is perfectly fine for a house rule. But by the RAW, a Mummy's Dispair ability is a paralyzing attack and warforged are immune to paralysis. Warforged are not immune to fear effects. And whether it is a necromantic or not doesn't matter; they are immune to some necromantic effects, which are clearly spelled out: they have no all-around immunity to necromancy.

Despair (Su): At the mere sight of a mummy, the viewer must succeed on a DC 16 Will save or be paralyzed with fear for 1d4 rounds. Whether or not the save is successful, that creature cannot be affected again by the same mummy’s despair ability for 24 hours. The save DC is Charisma-based.
If you want to tell people how you feel about a warforged being immune to something, go ahead. But make sure you are not telling people how things are without checking to see if you are right. Warforged are not immune to petrification. They are immune to paralyzation (regardless of source). The two things are different.
Kid SixXx
05-16-05, 11:17 PM That is perfectly fine for a house rule. But by the RAW, a Mummy's Dispair ability is a paralyzing attack and warforged are immune to paralysis.

The way Elves react to a Ghoul's touch vs any other paralytic effect pretty much sets the precedence that paralytic effects take numerous forms, so it's only logical that Despair would fall into an entirely different category and that not all paralytic effects are created equal.

IMO, the term "paralysis" in Mummy Despair is pretty much a catch-all phrase for "scared stiff" or a similar term meaning that it's not technically a paralytic effect, but that's my interpretation.
Gurv
05-17-05, 12:35 AM The way Elves react to a Ghoul's touch vs any other paralytic effect pretty much sets the precedence that paralytic effects take numerous forms, so it's only logical that Despair would fall into an entirely different category and that not all paralytic effects are created equal.

IMO, the term "paralysis" in Mummy Despair is pretty much a catch-all phrase for "scared stiff" or a similar term meaning that it's not technically a paralytic effect, but that's my interpretation.
The way elves react to a ghoul's touch is an exception to the RAW, a property of elves and ghouls (actually, it is a leftover rule from earlier editions that for some reason the designers left in). It doesn't really set precident.

I would even go so far as to agree that since the Mummy Despair ability paralyzes "by fear" that this would make creatures immune to fear effects immune to it. But that isn't why warforged are immune to it: they are immune to it because they are immune to all paralyzation. I will agree that paralytic effects take numerous forms. But I am afraid that warforged are immune to all of them, unless the DM uses Rule 0, or a particular description says otherwise.

I respect your right to your interpretation, and can even see the reason behind it. I am just making clear the lines between opinions and the rules.
Kid SixXx
05-17-05, 08:43 AM I respect your right to your interpretation, and can even see the reason behind it. I am just making clear the lines between opinions and the rules.

Based on the RAW, I'd concede the point, given the WF has blanket immunity and there are no listed exceptions.

However there are a few logical sticky points here and there (ie. why wouldn't a construct soldier be immune to fear if it's original job was to wage war without any regard?) but since those points call for extrapolated debate of info that isn't part of the WF write-up, the points of contention are made moot for basis of ruling on RAW.

I would think that since WF aren't immune to fear effects and that paralysis is the happenstance caused by the fear, that the WF would not be immune to the effects of a mummy's Despair, ergo the WF cannot move because he is afraid, not because there is a toxin or magical force inhibiting muscular control.

However, since WF have blanket immunity to paralysis period, this would negate the mummy's Despair effect despite the text stating that it is fear-based and forces a Will-save, rather other paralytic attacks that generally force a Fort or Reflex save.

Rule 0 or no, I think my path of logic makes more sense, but as you said, it is my own interpretation and the blanket immunity in the RAW are at an impasse and the RAW would take precedence in an official ruling.
Kinger
05-17-05, 12:10 PM Are there not actually several "levels" of fear in the rules? I'm pretty sure there are. You start off Shaken (-2 to some things), move to Frightened (run if you can), then to Panicked (run in random direction, or cower if you can't). I see the Mummy's paralyze-with-fear aura to be one step further on the chain. Would it be reasonable then to Rule-0 that Warforged, rather than being specifically Paralyzed (which they're immune to), are instead Panicked for the duration instead?

Kinda complicated. In retrospect, you could just as easily say "Hey, Forgey, upon seeing the mummy you are overcome with fear and cannot move. No, you're not 'paralyzed' per say, you're just immobolised and helpless. Yeah, they're the same thing, really, but you're not paralyzed, dangit!"
qwykee
05-17-05, 12:42 PM Other than finding someone to cast the spell I don't see the problem. Warforged are immune to stone to flesh, but objects (like say a petrified warforged, which is an object not a living construct) are not. The spell works the same way on a petrified warforged as it does on a petrified human.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
jarec 05-16-05, 06:30 AM	Any thoughts on this welcome. One of the players on my Campaign recently had a problem with a cockatrice and his Warforged got Petrified. The problem I have now is how to play this out as a GM. Firstly I presume the organic (i.e. wood) bits of the warforged got pertified not the metal bits. Secondly I'm going to allow Stone to Flesh to turn him back. The big problem is that finding a Sorcered at level 12 to perform Stone to Flesh is going to be a major headache in Eberron. Can anyone suggest any ways to progress this. I'm currently running Whisper of the Vampire's Blade and don't want this to unduly sidetrack the story.
Sorcerer 05-16-05, 07:27 AM	Just let the spell work. He'll get his character back, and don't let the wood and metal bits get to ya. The ongoing story is the important part. This is a minor glitch, something that happens to "living constructs" all the time. If he thinks this is bad, wait till he takes damage from a rust monster...
Just another user 05-16-05, 08:28 AM	If yiou think about it you'll notice that when a character is petrified by any mean, even his equipment is turned to stone, no matter if it is leather, wood, metal or other, and stone to flesh restore everything to its original state. The same apply to a warforged body.
Applecrow 05-16-05, 11:26 AM	you only need to find a 9th level spellcaster. Break Enchantment will get rid of petrification and its on both arcane and divine spell lists. :D
Kid SixXx 05-16-05, 11:38 AM	you only need to find a 9th level spellcaster. Break Enchantment will get rid of petrification and its on both arcane and divine spell lists. :D Probably easier to find an Artificer to make a Break Enchantment scroll than it would be to find someone to cast the spell, given the +2CL that Artificers get towards Item Creation. Wheel the petrified WF up to the local House Cannith enclave and all should be well, provided you have proper monetary compensation.. BTW, why is the player miffed? It's not like WF are immune to petrification, so he should've expected such attack to have a chance of success.
tug3000 05-16-05, 03:27 PM	What about paralysis? Warforged are immune to it according to the ECS. But can they still be "paralyzed with fear" by things like the Mummy's "Despair" effect?
Kid SixXx 05-16-05, 03:40 PM	What about paralysis? Warforged are immune to it according to the ECS. But can they still be "paralyzed with fear" by things like the Mummy's "Despair" effect? WF are immune to abilities that cause physical paralysis, but not mental effects that cause immobility. I could not use a paralytic substance on one, but I could cast a Command spell and then say "Stop!", or use some similar Enchantment / Charm spell, and effectively paralyze a WF should he fail his save.
tug3000 05-16-05, 06:36 PM	WF are immune to abilities that cause physical paralysis, but not mental effects that cause immobility. So which one is the Mummy's Despair? Abilities that causes physical paralysis or mental effect that causes immobility?
Gnome_Dragon_Disciple 05-16-05, 07:28 PM	Despair itself is a mental effect and would apply to warforged. The difficulty is in determining if the Despair effect is a necromantic one or not, which would also determine the success of its effect on a warforged.
Gurv 05-16-05, 07:49 PM	That is perfectly fine for a house rule. But by the RAW, a Mummy's Dispair ability is a paralyzing attack and warforged are immune to paralysis. Warforged are not immune to fear effects. And whether it is a necromantic or not doesn't matter; they are immune to some necromantic effects, which are clearly spelled out: they have no all-around immunity to necromancy. Despair (Su): At the mere sight of a mummy, the viewer must succeed on a DC 16 Will save or be paralyzed with fear for 1d4 rounds. Whether or not the save is successful, that creature cannot be affected again by the same mummy’s despair ability for 24 hours. The save DC is Charisma-based. If you want to tell people how you feel about a warforged being immune to something, go ahead. But make sure you are not telling people how things are without checking to see if you are right. Warforged are not immune to petrification. They are immune to paralyzation (regardless of source). The two things are different.
Kid SixXx 05-16-05, 11:17 PM	That is perfectly fine for a house rule. But by the RAW, a Mummy's Dispair ability is a paralyzing attack and warforged are immune to paralysis. The way Elves react to a Ghoul's touch vs any other paralytic effect pretty much sets the precedence that paralytic effects take numerous forms, so it's only logical that Despair would fall into an entirely different category and that not all paralytic effects are created equal. IMO, the term "paralysis" in Mummy Despair is pretty much a catch-all phrase for "scared stiff" or a similar term meaning that it's not technically a paralytic effect, but that's my interpretation.
Gurv 05-17-05, 12:35 AM	The way Elves react to a Ghoul's touch vs any other paralytic effect pretty much sets the precedence that paralytic effects take numerous forms, so it's only logical that Despair would fall into an entirely different category and that not all paralytic effects are created equal. IMO, the term "paralysis" in Mummy Despair is pretty much a catch-all phrase for "scared stiff" or a similar term meaning that it's not technically a paralytic effect, but that's my interpretation. The way elves react to a ghoul's touch is an exception to the RAW, a property of elves and ghouls (actually, it is a leftover rule from earlier editions that for some reason the designers left in). It doesn't really set precident. I would even go so far as to agree that since the Mummy Despair ability paralyzes "by fear" that this would make creatures immune to fear effects immune to it. But that isn't why warforged are immune to it: they are immune to it because they are immune to all paralyzation. I will agree that paralytic effects take numerous forms. But I am afraid that warforged are immune to all of them, unless the DM uses Rule 0, or a particular description says otherwise. I respect your right to your interpretation, and can even see the reason behind it. I am just making clear the lines between opinions and the rules.
Kid SixXx 05-17-05, 08:43 AM	I respect your right to your interpretation, and can even see the reason behind it. I am just making clear the lines between opinions and the rules. Based on the RAW, I'd concede the point, given the WF has blanket immunity and there are no listed exceptions. However there are a few logical sticky points here and there (ie. why wouldn't a construct soldier be immune to fear if it's original job was to wage war without any regard?) but since those points call for extrapolated debate of info that isn't part of the WF write-up, the points of contention are made moot for basis of ruling on RAW. I would think that since WF aren't immune to fear effects and that paralysis is the happenstance caused by the fear, that the WF would not be immune to the effects of a mummy's Despair, ergo the WF cannot move because he is afraid, not because there is a toxin or magical force inhibiting muscular control. However, since WF have blanket immunity to paralysis period, this would negate the mummy's Despair effect despite the text stating that it is fear-based and forces a Will-save, rather other paralytic attacks that generally force a Fort or Reflex save. Rule 0 or no, I think my path of logic makes more sense, but as you said, it is my own interpretation and the blanket immunity in the RAW are at an impasse and the RAW would take precedence in an official ruling.
Kinger 05-17-05, 12:10 PM	Are there not actually several "levels" of fear in the rules? I'm pretty sure there are. You start off Shaken (-2 to some things), move to Frightened (run if you can), then to Panicked (run in random direction, or cower if you can't). I see the Mummy's paralyze-with-fear aura to be one step further on the chain. Would it be reasonable then to Rule-0 that Warforged, rather than being specifically Paralyzed (which they're immune to), are instead Panicked for the duration instead? Kinda complicated. In retrospect, you could just as easily say "Hey, Forgey, upon seeing the mummy you are overcome with fear and cannot move. No, you're not 'paralyzed' per say, you're just immobolised and helpless. Yeah, they're the same thing, really, but you're not paralyzed, dangit!"
qwykee 05-17-05, 12:42 PM	Other than finding someone to cast the spell I don't see the problem. Warforged are immune to stone to flesh, but objects (like say a petrified warforged, which is an object not a living construct) are not. The spell works the same way on a petrified warforged as it does on a petrified human.