PGtE -- First Impression (I stand corrected) [Archive] - Wizards Community

PGtE -- First Impression (I stand corrected) [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
WyvernSting
01-20-06, 06:10 PM I can't say that I have had much exposure to the Players Guild to Eberron (PGtE) aside from the 5 minutes I spent looking at it last night in my LHS; I have to say that I was tremendously dissappointed in the size of the book relative to its price. I recognize that Eberron is the only supported game setting at this time for WotC and I wholeheartedly have embraced the setting; this makes me a semi-captive consumer of your products. I should also state that I already own every Eberron-branded book/item that has recently been distributed by WotC. I was very excited to get the Players Guide to Eberron based on its reviews and hype -- I must admit that I was sadly dissappointed in its meagerness. Sadly, I walked out of the shop without product in-hand.

Dear WotC,
If you would like me to continue buying your products, please help me see the ROI. Right now I feel that the PGtE is more of a hardbound Dragon Magazine than a legitimate players supplement. Please seriously consider the overall 'value' of your literature relative to price and try harder to 'wow' your client-base. If you are going to charge $30.00 for $10.00 worth of web enhancements and new content you will see fewer copies of it and subsequent releases flying off the shelves.

Cheers,

P.S. I acknowledge that I haven't yet read even a full page of the book and it may very well be the best abridged manual since "Who Moved my Cheese", but I highly doubt that the contents therein will change my overall ROI perspective.
NekoWorldOrder
01-20-06, 06:50 PM Except that the page count is pretty much the same as all the other Eberron books, outside of the Sharn book (about 40 more pages) and the ECS (which is 320). The information inside is very good, detailing organizations, races, places and ideas; unlike the Explorers Handbook, which I consider to be the worst of all the Eberron supplements (which means it's only a B+ in my book :D ), which is really just a bunch of random pothooks for places you might never use. I know that I'll use the charts for general information about the Mourning, or Blood of Vol, or the dragonmarked houses...I'm not so sure about Tharkgun Dhak, Shalquar Monastery or even the Glitterdust Nightclub. It may be set up in the format of two page blurbs, but it’s so efficient that a lot of the sections seem bigger than that.

My bigger gripe is that the Eberron Campaign Sourcebook was only a few pages longer than the Players Handbook and the Dungeon Masters Guide, and yet cost an extra $10. Granted, the book was a beast crammed full of information, but still...even working in a bookstore, I spend way too much on books. :P
WyvernSting
01-20-06, 07:30 PM NWO -- very fair assessment! You're right about the Explorer's Handbook, perhaps the reason it didn't set of my "you could now be considered a sucker for buying" alarm is that it contained information that (at the time) I really needed. The same could be said for a GM who is looking to focus on one of the shady organizations highlighted in PGtE. To that end, I hope that WotC just takes from my OP that I am strongly hoping for MORE CONTENT from books that cost $30.00 !!

Thanks for listening.
Orion Polaris
01-20-06, 07:49 PM You really shouldn't be complaining about price...I have to pay upwards around 50 dollars to get my current books. That's around 43 dollars American.
Korhal_IV
01-20-06, 07:54 PM WyvernSting - like NWO said, PBtE is about the same page count as most of the other Eberron books. Also, unlike RoE or MoE, it's full of relevant fluff, with very little in the way of game mechanics.

I think PGtE was well worth its price, especially since I have several newish players in my group.
Majorafire77
01-20-06, 09:38 PM I recognize that Eberron is the only supported game setting at this time for WotC.
Say what? Looks like the Forgotten Realms have really been forgotten...
Kalanth
01-21-06, 12:57 AM I was thinking the same thing, Majorfire77. I swore a new Forgotten Realms book came out a few months ago if not sooner.

The PGtE is a solid book if you ask me. What I see is a large number of people looking through it and being dissapointed because of a lack of crunch, or that the book is to vague for a DM. Well, its a fluffy book for the purpose of introducing players to Eberron without slapping the ECS in their lap and telling them to find and read the player only parts. You ask me, the PGtE is well worth the $30 I paid for it. It's their other book of the month, the Races of the Dragon, that is the abomination and a dismal reck.
twelvedrunkenmonkeyz
01-21-06, 01:45 AM Personally I wish there where a few more pages crammed into the book (with a single full page map of each of the continents), but I'm still very pleased with the book. I personaly like the Explorer's Handbook as well, but that's probably because I like the idea of a large book, with several adventure ideas in it for 20 bucks (its about the same as buyin' the 3 adventures). But I believe that the EH is a DM tool, and have specifically told my players that none are to buy it, unless they plan on usurping the role as DM.
Kessalin Talira
01-21-06, 02:14 AM I recognize that Eberron is the only supported game setting at this time for WotC...Not even close. A quick check of the Products page will show that in 2005, the Forgotten Realms had four sourcebooks published. Guess how many Eberron got? Four. It'll probably be the same in 2006, too.

Personally, I don't get into Eberron as much as I do FR, but I liked the Explorer's Handbook, overall. It has some good ideas in it that can be adapted relatively easily, like rules and suggestions for interesting combat locales.

As far as the Player's Guide to Eberron goes, I think I'll skip that one, though I'm pretty sure it'll show up around here. The only thing I'm interested in is the Revenant Blade. I've heard good things about that PrC.
nastynate
01-21-06, 03:26 AM The only thing I'm interested in is the Revenant Blade. I've heard good things about that PrC.
What you mean to say is that the fluff is meaningless to you, because you don't play in Eberron, but the potentially broken PrC in the sourcebook is fair game. And this is coming from the guy who's been singing the praises of the RB on the CO boards...I'm such a hypocrate. :D

There is a distinction between a good PrC and a good sourcebook. Races of destiny had the chameleon, but I thought that book was terrible. With the PGtE however, I actually think the sourcebook is decent too; I didn't buy races of destiny, but I bought this. If I only wanted the RB, I wouldn't have paid $30.00 bucks for it.
Kessalin Talira
01-21-06, 03:54 AM Well, I'd like to see if the class really is that good, as well as getting an idea of the flavor of it. If it's something I'd like to play for more than mechanical reasons, it will give me another character option to think about, since I'm having trouble getting into the one that I'm currently playing in a friend's Eberron campaign.

There's also not a really good double weapon PrC out right now that I can think of. Exotic Weapon Master counts, I suppose, but I can't think of anything that's really focused on double weapons or a specific double weapon.
nastynate
01-21-06, 04:09 AM Well, I'd like to see if the class really is that good, as well as getting an idea of the flavor of it. If it's something I'd like to play for more than mechanical reasons, it will give me another character option to think about, since I'm having trouble getting into the one that I'm currently playing in a friend's Eberron campaign.

There's also not a really good double weapon PrC out right now that I can think of. Exotic Weapon Master counts, I suppose, but I can't think of anything that's really focused on double weapons or a specific double weapon.

Fair enough...it is that good BTW, both mechanically powerful, and tastily flavorful. But it's only three pages (or so) of the whole book, and the rest is worth reading too.
Mula
01-21-06, 08:29 AM The PGtE is a solid book if you ask me. What I see is a large number of people looking through it and being dissapointed because of a lack of crunch, or that the book is to vague for a DM. Well, its a fluffy book for the purpose of introducing players to Eberron without slapping the ECS in their lap and telling them to find and read the player only parts.
Uh, you do realize that the book has over 30 feats? Several deity entries? The rules for epic artificers? New spells, powers, and magic items?

Player's Guide to Eberron is an excellent book - don't miss it!
WyvernSting
01-23-06, 01:49 AM I stand corrected on a few different fronts. All of your comments were well received, thanks for not flaming me for having a less-than-thought-out post. :)
WizO_Sith
01-23-06, 08:05 AM Everybody involved in this discussion should take a gold star out of petty cash, because this is one of the most civil discussions I've ever witnessed on these forums.

Now go forth my minions! Spread your politeness throughout the boards!

Mwa-ha-ha-ha-ha!!!

*ahem*

Sorry about that.

Seriously though, keep up the excellent job guys.
okaynowa
01-23-06, 08:44 AM Said NekoWorldOrder:
My bigger gripe is that the Eberron Campaign Sourcebook was only a few pages longer than the Players Handbook and the Dungeon Masters Guide, and yet cost an extra $10.
Ah, but recall that WotC was able to sell the three core rulebooks at a lower price because they could rely on selling more of them. Sourcebooks with a more specialized appeal must shoulder a heavier price tag.
GreatOne
01-23-06, 04:41 PM Said NekoWorldOrder:

Ah, but recall that WotC was able to sell the three core rulebooks at a lower price because they could rely on selling more of them. Sourcebooks with a more specialized appeal must shoulder a heavier price tag.

Agreed ^

Anyways when I first saw the book I knew that is was going to be good. When I read more into it, it is a good book and thus well worth the price tag. To answer all your peoples questions about the reverent blade- IT ROCKS!! Good game mechanics and alot of fluff to go along with it.

The book is a great for a roleplaying heavy game which I will be starting to play soon. Playing a city goblin who is the intellectual type who looks like the smart gremlin from Gremlins 2 :D
Kalanth
01-24-06, 01:21 AM Uh, you do realize that the book has over 30 feats? Several deity entries? The rules for epic artificers? New spells, powers, and magic items?

Yes, I did see all those, but in comparison a feat normally takes no more than the standar paragraph to explain. The classes are usually short nature, and the deity entries felt more like background fluff than anything (and shined a light for me on how to be good and worship The Shadow). With all the pages, it still is fluffy enough to be a pillow instead of a rock. I love that about the PGtE.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
WyvernSting 01-20-06, 06:10 PM	I can't say that I have had much exposure to the Players Guild to Eberron (PGtE) aside from the 5 minutes I spent looking at it last night in my LHS; I have to say that I was tremendously dissappointed in the size of the book relative to its price. I recognize that Eberron is the only supported game setting at this time for WotC and I wholeheartedly have embraced the setting; this makes me a semi-captive consumer of your products. I should also state that I already own every Eberron-branded book/item that has recently been distributed by WotC. I was very excited to get the Players Guide to Eberron based on its reviews and hype -- I must admit that I was sadly dissappointed in its meagerness. Sadly, I walked out of the shop without product in-hand. Dear WotC, If you would like me to continue buying your products, please help me see the ROI. Right now I feel that the PGtE is more of a hardbound Dragon Magazine than a legitimate players supplement. Please seriously consider the overall 'value' of your literature relative to price and try harder to 'wow' your client-base. If you are going to charge $30.00 for $10.00 worth of web enhancements and new content you will see fewer copies of it and subsequent releases flying off the shelves. Cheers, P.S. I acknowledge that I haven't yet read even a full page of the book and it may very well be the best abridged manual since "Who Moved my Cheese", but I highly doubt that the contents therein will change my overall ROI perspective.
NekoWorldOrder 01-20-06, 06:50 PM	Except that the page count is pretty much the same as all the other Eberron books, outside of the Sharn book (about 40 more pages) and the ECS (which is 320). The information inside is very good, detailing organizations, races, places and ideas; unlike the Explorers Handbook, which I consider to be the worst of all the Eberron supplements (which means it's only a B+ in my book :D ), which is really just a bunch of random pothooks for places you might never use. I know that I'll use the charts for general information about the Mourning, or Blood of Vol, or the dragonmarked houses...I'm not so sure about Tharkgun Dhak, Shalquar Monastery or even the Glitterdust Nightclub. It may be set up in the format of two page blurbs, but it’s so efficient that a lot of the sections seem bigger than that. My bigger gripe is that the Eberron Campaign Sourcebook was only a few pages longer than the Players Handbook and the Dungeon Masters Guide, and yet cost an extra $10. Granted, the book was a beast crammed full of information, but still...even working in a bookstore, I spend way too much on books. :P
WyvernSting 01-20-06, 07:30 PM	NWO -- very fair assessment! You're right about the Explorer's Handbook, perhaps the reason it didn't set of my "you could now be considered a sucker for buying" alarm is that it contained information that (at the time) I really needed. The same could be said for a GM who is looking to focus on one of the shady organizations highlighted in PGtE. To that end, I hope that WotC just takes from my OP that I am strongly hoping for MORE CONTENT from books that cost $30.00 !! Thanks for listening.
Orion Polaris 01-20-06, 07:49 PM	You really shouldn't be complaining about price...I have to pay upwards around 50 dollars to get my current books. That's around 43 dollars American.
Korhal_IV 01-20-06, 07:54 PM	WyvernSting - like NWO said, PBtE is about the same page count as most of the other Eberron books. Also, unlike RoE or MoE, it's full of relevant fluff, with very little in the way of game mechanics. I think PGtE was well worth its price, especially since I have several newish players in my group.
Majorafire77 01-20-06, 09:38 PM	I recognize that Eberron is the only supported game setting at this time for WotC. Say what? Looks like the Forgotten Realms have really been forgotten...
Kalanth 01-21-06, 12:57 AM	I was thinking the same thing, Majorfire77. I swore a new Forgotten Realms book came out a few months ago if not sooner. The PGtE is a solid book if you ask me. What I see is a large number of people looking through it and being dissapointed because of a lack of crunch, or that the book is to vague for a DM. Well, its a fluffy book for the purpose of introducing players to Eberron without slapping the ECS in their lap and telling them to find and read the player only parts. You ask me, the PGtE is well worth the $30 I paid for it. It's their other book of the month, the Races of the Dragon, that is the abomination and a dismal reck.
twelvedrunkenmonkeyz 01-21-06, 01:45 AM	Personally I wish there where a few more pages crammed into the book (with a single full page map of each of the continents), but I'm still very pleased with the book. I personaly like the Explorer's Handbook as well, but that's probably because I like the idea of a large book, with several adventure ideas in it for 20 bucks (its about the same as buyin' the 3 adventures). But I believe that the EH is a DM tool, and have specifically told my players that none are to buy it, unless they plan on usurping the role as DM.
Kessalin Talira 01-21-06, 02:14 AM	I recognize that Eberron is the only supported game setting at this time for WotC...Not even close. A quick check of the Products page will show that in 2005, the Forgotten Realms had four sourcebooks published. Guess how many Eberron got? Four. It'll probably be the same in 2006, too. Personally, I don't get into Eberron as much as I do FR, but I liked the Explorer's Handbook, overall. It has some good ideas in it that can be adapted relatively easily, like rules and suggestions for interesting combat locales. As far as the Player's Guide to Eberron goes, I think I'll skip that one, though I'm pretty sure it'll show up around here. The only thing I'm interested in is the Revenant Blade. I've heard good things about that PrC.
nastynate 01-21-06, 03:26 AM	The only thing I'm interested in is the Revenant Blade. I've heard good things about that PrC. What you mean to say is that the fluff is meaningless to you, because you don't play in Eberron, but the potentially broken PrC in the sourcebook is fair game. And this is coming from the guy who's been singing the praises of the RB on the CO boards...I'm such a hypocrate. :D There is a distinction between a good PrC and a good sourcebook. Races of destiny had the chameleon, but I thought that book was terrible. With the PGtE however, I actually think the sourcebook is decent too; I didn't buy races of destiny, but I bought this. If I only wanted the RB, I wouldn't have paid $30.00 bucks for it.
Kessalin Talira 01-21-06, 03:54 AM	Well, I'd like to see if the class really is that good, as well as getting an idea of the flavor of it. If it's something I'd like to play for more than mechanical reasons, it will give me another character option to think about, since I'm having trouble getting into the one that I'm currently playing in a friend's Eberron campaign. There's also not a really good double weapon PrC out right now that I can think of. Exotic Weapon Master counts, I suppose, but I can't think of anything that's really focused on double weapons or a specific double weapon.
nastynate 01-21-06, 04:09 AM	Well, I'd like to see if the class really is that good, as well as getting an idea of the flavor of it. If it's something I'd like to play for more than mechanical reasons, it will give me another character option to think about, since I'm having trouble getting into the one that I'm currently playing in a friend's Eberron campaign. There's also not a really good double weapon PrC out right now that I can think of. Exotic Weapon Master counts, I suppose, but I can't think of anything that's really focused on double weapons or a specific double weapon. Fair enough...it is that good BTW, both mechanically powerful, and tastily flavorful. But it's only three pages (or so) of the whole book, and the rest is worth reading too.
Mula 01-21-06, 08:29 AM	The PGtE is a solid book if you ask me. What I see is a large number of people looking through it and being dissapointed because of a lack of crunch, or that the book is to vague for a DM. Well, its a fluffy book for the purpose of introducing players to Eberron without slapping the ECS in their lap and telling them to find and read the player only parts. Uh, you do realize that the book has over 30 feats? Several deity entries? The rules for epic artificers? New spells, powers, and magic items? Player's Guide to Eberron is an excellent book - don't miss it!
WyvernSting 01-23-06, 01:49 AM	I stand corrected on a few different fronts. All of your comments were well received, thanks for not flaming me for having a less-than-thought-out post. :)
WizO_Sith 01-23-06, 08:05 AM	Everybody involved in this discussion should take a gold star out of petty cash, because this is one of the most civil discussions I've ever witnessed on these forums. Now go forth my minions! Spread your politeness throughout the boards! Mwa-ha-ha-ha-ha!!! ahem Sorry about that. Seriously though, keep up the excellent job guys.
okaynowa 01-23-06, 08:44 AM	Said NekoWorldOrder: My bigger gripe is that the Eberron Campaign Sourcebook was only a few pages longer than the Players Handbook and the Dungeon Masters Guide, and yet cost an extra $10. Ah, but recall that WotC was able to sell the three core rulebooks at a lower price because they could rely on selling more of them. Sourcebooks with a more specialized appeal must shoulder a heavier price tag.
GreatOne 01-23-06, 04:41 PM	Said NekoWorldOrder: Ah, but recall that WotC was able to sell the three core rulebooks at a lower price because they could rely on selling more of them. Sourcebooks with a more specialized appeal must shoulder a heavier price tag. Agreed ^ Anyways when I first saw the book I knew that is was going to be good. When I read more into it, it is a good book and thus well worth the price tag. To answer all your peoples questions about the reverent blade- IT ROCKS!! Good game mechanics and alot of fluff to go along with it. The book is a great for a roleplaying heavy game which I will be starting to play soon. Playing a city goblin who is the intellectual type who looks like the smart gremlin from Gremlins 2 :D
Kalanth 01-24-06, 01:21 AM	Uh, you do realize that the book has over 30 feats? Several deity entries? The rules for epic artificers? New spells, powers, and magic items? Yes, I did see all those, but in comparison a feat normally takes no more than the standar paragraph to explain. The classes are usually short nature, and the deity entries felt more like background fluff than anything (and shined a light for me on how to be good and worship The Shadow). With all the pages, it still is fluffy enough to be a pillow instead of a rock. I love that about the PGtE.