PHBII + Eberron? [Archive] - Wizards Community

PHBII + Eberron? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
JulesCARV
05-15-06, 12:31 PM This is a somewhat inevitable thread, so I suppose I might as well be the one to post it.

So I suppose the Duskblade would be a possible class to represent the "common" members of the Aundairian Knights Arcane -- the kind of level 1-6 knights arcane, still elite compared to the level 1-3 warriors who make up most of Aundair's military, but not as elite at the Knights Phantom, who are at least 7th level (martial class 1/wizard 5/knight phantom 1 is the quickest way to knight phantom I can think of, without the help of the Militia feat, which requires an implausible story of a militia-trained wizard who travels through the plane of shadow at fifth level from the Forgotten Realms to Eberron and is quickly accepted into Aundairian society and the Knights Arcane).

Also, I wanna play a warforged knight.
Bluebrush
05-15-06, 12:49 PM Also, the Duskblade flavour fits the Aerenal fairly well, and the Valenar.
Aundair being a good place to fit it in for non-elven learners.

The Beguiler fits well with The Trust and The Cabinet of Faces.

The Dragon Shaman fits well with the Seren, and possibly with Siberys/Eberron/Khyber cults, though the alignment element may have to be changed, like the clerical alignment system.
JulesCARV
05-15-06, 01:02 PM Changeling beguiler would be pretty neat too.
manneedshaircut
05-15-06, 08:24 PM I think that the designers had Eberron in mind when they made the Dragon Shaman. It fits perfectly as a kind of "spiritual/martial champion of the tribes" in the Seren Islands, as it would be a character who chose to follow the dragon as closely as they could.

If you are an evil GM and you want to mess with the Duskblade flavor a bit, you could throw in Duskblade/Dragon Disciples to mess with the PCs. Other than that, the Duskblade fits very well into Aerenal, and also fits perfectly into the Valenar, as elite warrior-mage characters.

The Knight fits in in a few places, most especially in the Five Nations. I agree that a Warforged Knight would be awesome, especially one with Adamantine Body.

Just my 2c.
turalisj
05-15-06, 08:25 PM We would also see silver flame knights duking it off with the knights serving the LoD's. That might actualy make for an interesting hook....

Edit: I hate it when someone posts something similar to what you have at the same time you've made your post........

If you understood that, you get a protoss zealot armor, free of charge. S&H not prepayed for.
Edymnion
05-15-06, 08:29 PM Yick, I didn't like the Knight.
It just boils down to nothing more than mechanics for "Hey you, ugly, lets fight!".
JulesCARV
05-16-06, 05:02 AM I think that the Knight's Challenge abilities should have been supernatural, not extraordinary. I think it's rather ridiculous that when a knight issues a Test of Mettle challenge to an opposing knight, the opposing knight is likely to ignore him, due to his good will save, whereas a rogue is more likely to listen, thanks to low will save. It should be the rogue who ignores the insults and challenges to her "honor," while the opposing knight answers the call.
mhacdebhandia
05-16-06, 08:46 AM Another potential use of the dragon shaman - which might require some class skill tweaking - is as particularly devoted acolytes of the draconist sect of the Sovereign Host, especially among isolated primitive tribes who have been exposed to the Host by missionaries but haven't benefited from ongoing instruction in orthodox doctrines.

The knight fits as written in any of the Five Nations; I would also expect there to be more than a few knights associated with New Galifar, perhaps more so than elsewhere.

The duskblade does, indeed, fit in either elven nation or in Aundair, but I would imagine that there would be duskblades in many places, especially given their advantages as elite combatants during the Last War.

Beguilers work very well for changelings, the gnomes of Zilargo, the elves of Phiarlan and Thuranni . . . adapted as a psionic class, they'd work well as agents of the Inspired and Dreaming Dark. They'd be valuable agents in the service of any of the conspiracies around Eberron, from the Aurum to the Lords of Dust.
Lilinthra
05-16-06, 11:35 AM I think that the Knight's Challenge abilities should have been supernatural, not extraordinary. I think it's rather ridiculous that when a knight issues a Test of Mettle challenge to an opposing knight, the opposing knight is likely to ignore him, due to his good will save, whereas a rogue is more likely to listen, thanks to low will save. It should be the rogue who ignores the insults and challenges to her "honor," while the opposing knight answers the call.
I'm not sure how that would merit it being Supernatural instead of Extraordinary? I'd say it should be Extraordinary, because it doesn't seem like the type of thing that Antimagic would suppress.
JulesCARV
05-16-06, 12:25 PM Basically, powers on the order of the Knight's Challenge abilities -- like the aforementioned "make an honorless rogue try to fight you with taunts" ability, Test of Mettle -- are simply too mind-compelling to be plausible as supernatural abilities. The closest analogy is bardic music: one COULD imagine bardic music abilities as extraordinary abilities, but it beggars the imagination that a bard, by playing her lute really REALLY well, can make a barbarian do nothing but stare at her fascinated.

It makes more sense, in short, that they're supernatural.

To balance the weaker nature of supernatural abilities, one might allow it to affect creatures with intelligence of 3 or higher, not just 5 or higher.
Lilinthra
05-16-06, 12:34 PM Basically, powers on the order of the Knight's Challenge abilities -- like the aforementioned "make an honorless rogue try to fight you with taunts" ability, Test of Mettle -- are simply too mind-compelling to be plausible as supernatural abilities. The closest analogy is bardic music: one COULD imagine bardic music abilities as extraordinary abilities, but it beggars the imagination that a bard, by playing her lute really REALLY well, can make a barbarian do nothing but stare at her fascinated.

It makes more sense, in short, that they're supernatural.

To balance the weaker nature of supernatural abilities, one might allow it to affect creatures with intelligence of 3 or higher, not just 5 or higher.
Yes, I had just realized that bardic music has Sp and Su effects depending on which use and no Ex abilities. Something like that, where different uses of Knight's Challenge had different designations might have been more appropriate. Such as making the mind-affecting/fear abilities Supernatural while some of the personal boosts could be Extraordinary?

The way I look at these things is that with only three types of Special Abilities (Sp/Su/Ex), some stuff is going to be hard to fit in thematically and you have to look at the mechanics instead. Should it be dispellable? Should it go away in an Antimagic field? Should it stay or not when using a shapechanging effect?
Korhal_IV
05-16-06, 02:42 PM I think that the Knight's Challenge abilities should have been supernatural, not extraordinary. I think it's rather ridiculous that when a knight issues a Test of Mettle challenge to an opposing knight, the opposing knight is likely to ignore him, due to his good will save, whereas a rogue is more likely to listen, thanks to low will save. It should be the rogue who ignores the insults and challenges to her "honor," while the opposing knight answers the call.
Except that the knight, like the paladin, will generally be of an honorable nature, and return the challenge in kind, thus getting the two high-Will save martial characters to engage him. In fact, the other knight would probably respond with a Challenge too, to get the morale bonuses against a foe he knows isn't going to try to run away and waste his Challenge time. :)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
JulesCARV 05-15-06, 12:31 PM	This is a somewhat inevitable thread, so I suppose I might as well be the one to post it. So I suppose the Duskblade would be a possible class to represent the "common" members of the Aundairian Knights Arcane -- the kind of level 1-6 knights arcane, still elite compared to the level 1-3 warriors who make up most of Aundair's military, but not as elite at the Knights Phantom, who are at least 7th level (martial class 1/wizard 5/knight phantom 1 is the quickest way to knight phantom I can think of, without the help of the Militia feat, which requires an implausible story of a militia-trained wizard who travels through the plane of shadow at fifth level from the Forgotten Realms to Eberron and is quickly accepted into Aundairian society and the Knights Arcane). Also, I wanna play a warforged knight.
Bluebrush 05-15-06, 12:49 PM	Also, the Duskblade flavour fits the Aerenal fairly well, and the Valenar. Aundair being a good place to fit it in for non-elven learners. The Beguiler fits well with The Trust and The Cabinet of Faces. The Dragon Shaman fits well with the Seren, and possibly with Siberys/Eberron/Khyber cults, though the alignment element may have to be changed, like the clerical alignment system.
JulesCARV 05-15-06, 01:02 PM	Changeling beguiler would be pretty neat too.
manneedshaircut 05-15-06, 08:24 PM	I think that the designers had Eberron in mind when they made the Dragon Shaman. It fits perfectly as a kind of "spiritual/martial champion of the tribes" in the Seren Islands, as it would be a character who chose to follow the dragon as closely as they could. If you are an evil GM and you want to mess with the Duskblade flavor a bit, you could throw in Duskblade/Dragon Disciples to mess with the PCs. Other than that, the Duskblade fits very well into Aerenal, and also fits perfectly into the Valenar, as elite warrior-mage characters. The Knight fits in in a few places, most especially in the Five Nations. I agree that a Warforged Knight would be awesome, especially one with Adamantine Body. Just my 2c.
turalisj 05-15-06, 08:25 PM	We would also see silver flame knights duking it off with the knights serving the LoD's. That might actualy make for an interesting hook.... Edit: I hate it when someone posts something similar to what you have at the same time you've made your post........ If you understood that, you get a protoss zealot armor, free of charge. S&H not prepayed for.
Edymnion 05-15-06, 08:29 PM	Yick, I didn't like the Knight. It just boils down to nothing more than mechanics for "Hey you, ugly, lets fight!".
JulesCARV 05-16-06, 05:02 AM	I think that the Knight's Challenge abilities should have been supernatural, not extraordinary. I think it's rather ridiculous that when a knight issues a Test of Mettle challenge to an opposing knight, the opposing knight is likely to ignore him, due to his good will save, whereas a rogue is more likely to listen, thanks to low will save. It should be the rogue who ignores the insults and challenges to her "honor," while the opposing knight answers the call.
mhacdebhandia 05-16-06, 08:46 AM	Another potential use of the dragon shaman - which might require some class skill tweaking - is as particularly devoted acolytes of the draconist sect of the Sovereign Host, especially among isolated primitive tribes who have been exposed to the Host by missionaries but haven't benefited from ongoing instruction in orthodox doctrines. The knight fits as written in any of the Five Nations; I would also expect there to be more than a few knights associated with New Galifar, perhaps more so than elsewhere. The duskblade does, indeed, fit in either elven nation or in Aundair, but I would imagine that there would be duskblades in many places, especially given their advantages as elite combatants during the Last War. Beguilers work very well for changelings, the gnomes of Zilargo, the elves of Phiarlan and Thuranni . . . adapted as a psionic class, they'd work well as agents of the Inspired and Dreaming Dark. They'd be valuable agents in the service of any of the conspiracies around Eberron, from the Aurum to the Lords of Dust.
Lilinthra 05-16-06, 11:35 AM	I think that the Knight's Challenge abilities should have been supernatural, not extraordinary. I think it's rather ridiculous that when a knight issues a Test of Mettle challenge to an opposing knight, the opposing knight is likely to ignore him, due to his good will save, whereas a rogue is more likely to listen, thanks to low will save. It should be the rogue who ignores the insults and challenges to her "honor," while the opposing knight answers the call. I'm not sure how that would merit it being Supernatural instead of Extraordinary? I'd say it should be Extraordinary, because it doesn't seem like the type of thing that Antimagic would suppress.
JulesCARV 05-16-06, 12:25 PM	Basically, powers on the order of the Knight's Challenge abilities -- like the aforementioned "make an honorless rogue try to fight you with taunts" ability, Test of Mettle -- are simply too mind-compelling to be plausible as supernatural abilities. The closest analogy is bardic music: one COULD imagine bardic music abilities as extraordinary abilities, but it beggars the imagination that a bard, by playing her lute really REALLY well, can make a barbarian do nothing but stare at her fascinated. It makes more sense, in short, that they're supernatural. To balance the weaker nature of supernatural abilities, one might allow it to affect creatures with intelligence of 3 or higher, not just 5 or higher.
Lilinthra 05-16-06, 12:34 PM	Basically, powers on the order of the Knight's Challenge abilities -- like the aforementioned "make an honorless rogue try to fight you with taunts" ability, Test of Mettle -- are simply too mind-compelling to be plausible as supernatural abilities. The closest analogy is bardic music: one COULD imagine bardic music abilities as extraordinary abilities, but it beggars the imagination that a bard, by playing her lute really REALLY well, can make a barbarian do nothing but stare at her fascinated. It makes more sense, in short, that they're supernatural. To balance the weaker nature of supernatural abilities, one might allow it to affect creatures with intelligence of 3 or higher, not just 5 or higher. Yes, I had just realized that bardic music has Sp and Su effects depending on which use and no Ex abilities. Something like that, where different uses of Knight's Challenge had different designations might have been more appropriate. Such as making the mind-affecting/fear abilities Supernatural while some of the personal boosts could be Extraordinary? The way I look at these things is that with only three types of Special Abilities (Sp/Su/Ex), some stuff is going to be hard to fit in thematically and you have to look at the mechanics instead. Should it be dispellable? Should it go away in an Antimagic field? Should it stay or not when using a shapechanging effect?
Korhal_IV 05-16-06, 02:42 PM	I think that the Knight's Challenge abilities should have been supernatural, not extraordinary. I think it's rather ridiculous that when a knight issues a Test of Mettle challenge to an opposing knight, the opposing knight is likely to ignore him, due to his good will save, whereas a rogue is more likely to listen, thanks to low will save. It should be the rogue who ignores the insults and challenges to her "honor," while the opposing knight answers the call. Except that the knight, like the paladin, will generally be of an honorable nature, and return the challenge in kind, thus getting the two high-Will save martial characters to engage him. In fact, the other knight would probably respond with a Challenge too, to get the morale bonuses against a foe he knows isn't going to try to run away and waste his Challenge time. :)