Picturing Sharn's Lower Levels [Archive] - Wizards Community

Picturing Sharn's Lower Levels [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Synonymous
02-05-05, 05:14 PM Maybe I'm just dense, but I have a hard time visualizing the lower levels of Sharn. Looking at the maps, I get the impression that all of the tower bases merge together to form one enourmous indoor building, sort of like a shopping mall from hell. Is this right? If I enter Malleon's Gate from one end, can I walk all the way to the other side without going outside? Can I walk all the way through other lower wards, as well, without going outside?

Can anyone help me get a handle on this? Thanks.
snikt-snikt
02-05-05, 05:36 PM Trust me either we are both dense or its not well described-I have had a hard time with this too.

I think that some of the towers may merge together to form a "shopping mall" type complex, but I also imagine some space inbetween some of the towers. Kind of like a maze of small, dirty alleys winding inbetween the mammoth towers. The alleys would be cluttered with debris and trash from years of garbage slidding down the sides of the towers.

Hope this helps, do you have any ideas?
Greenintern
02-05-05, 05:46 PM As far as I can tell, it isnt described in excruciating detail, which I can understand somewhat, as I'm sure its a bit more complex that we might believe.

As for my view, I too think that the towers eventually converge into some sort of large structure, although I'd think less like a shopping mall than like a sewer basin. Obviously there would be more well guarded exits/entrances, but ofr the most part, I think it would be one giant free-for-all down there.

It would probably be a nice place to go for a black market, or to disappear if you were being followed. Just make sure you don't have too big a coin purse, or just shined your armor.
Kast
02-05-05, 06:37 PM Just think of Manhatten, except there would be all kinds of bridges going between the buildings. If these bridges were wide enough and strong enough, they would have towers built on top of them as well and those might have bridges between them. A large plaze could be built by connecting 4 towers together with one big platform.

Even though all these towers are connected as such above, doesn't mean street-level has changed that much from when the towers were first built. Except of course for the lack of direct light and fresh breezes. The view from the bottom would be like looking up from the middle of a pile of "pick-up-sticks".
Synonymous
02-05-05, 08:58 PM Hm, the Manhattan analogy makes sense, and it's easy for me to picture. I think snikt-snikt is right, though, that it would be more like winding alleys and mazes than well-planned streets- maybe more like downtown Manhattan, rather than Uptown.

Thanks, guys- It's good to know I'm not the only one puzzled by this. Maybe in the future some maps will be published, that would help quite a bit.
Hakan
02-06-05, 02:10 AM I think it would be almost exactly like Manhattan. But not street level. There is a vast subterrainian Manhattan: The Subways, Sewers, landfills... There exists an underground society of homeless (Great Documentary, Dark Days). And I picture Sharn to be that kind of layers environment, host to filth eaters and mold and slimes. At the lowest levels massively overfat Otyughs and passages to Kyber.
Just my vision. But I grew up in NYC.
As always: Whatever works for you.
FuzzCube
02-06-05, 03:33 AM I agreen with Hakan.
Lower level Sharn is very different from Manhattan.

Above ground the towers almost touch each other, there are no broad avenues and streets, just very narrow Canyon like pathways formed by the tower walls.
The place would be a maze of crisscorssing narrow streets filled with smoke and smog. Very little light reaches this level.

Undergound Sharn is a bit like underground Manhattan but on a larger scale. It's a big mix of tunnels and sewers. It also contains things no modern city has. There are vast caverns containing foundries and factories that use lava as a source of energy. Now add Dhaakaani ruins to the mix. In some cases whole Dhaakaani buildings survived the years, but in other cases only modern inhabitants used the stones and statues of the Dhaakaani buildings to build new constructs, or to support tunnels. An old Dhaakaani hall of heroes is now used as a vast goblin slum area.

Of course this is just how I see it ;).
GrayS
02-08-05, 07:54 AM Synonymous, don't hold your breath waiting for decent maps of Sharn.
Much as I would happily commit several horrible crimes too hideous to mention, just to get my hands on a decent set of Sharn maps, I can't see it happening.

WotC seem to be extremely poor at giving us the stuff we actually need. They will give us fluff 'til it's coming out our ears - that easy to produce/create. But MAPS require real actual work, thinking, creativity and above all, consistency. That's all far too much like hard work for WotC to consider doing any time soon.

So, much as I adore Eberron for it's flavor, mood, setting, tone etc etc etc. I am always disappointed when a new Ebby book is released that the maps are so darned pathetic. To date there has been no exceptions at all. Only the web enhancement poster map of Khorvaire is half-way decent, and we had to beg and grovel for months before that was released on the web - we've got to wait until the DMs screen is published to get a hard-copy.....

But I digress - I agree with the manhattan/pick-up-sticks concept. It's the nearest my imagination can come to, given the massive scale of the towers (1 mile = 5280ft = about 3 x the height of the Sears Tower!).
Dravot
02-08-05, 08:20 AM There's an area in Center City (downtown) Philadelphia that I think of as the perfect example of the Sharn undercity. It runs for blocks, mostly east-west, but it does meander a bit. There are entrances to the subway, and to the commuter trains there, and there are a variety of shops and stores as well. Many of the buildings have basement entrances from the tunnels. In some areas it's wide and open, in other areas it's a narrow 10' wide tunnel; quality of the lighting varies, too. There's a mix of homeless people and commuters and everything in between. I'm pretty certain I've seen a couple of aberrations down there as well. ;)
Darrius Adler
02-08-05, 10:38 AM The City of Towers novel actually helped me to get a better idea of Sharn's appearance as the characters visit many areas of the city.
Nived
02-08-05, 10:52 AM This might sound crazy but I dusted off an old video game just last night that gave me some insight. Since I don't have the system reqs (or an x-box) to play Knights of the Old Republic II (at least not till next paycheck) I dusted off KotoR I to get my fix...

I had completely forgotten about Tarsis. A city-planet that is divided vertically. The fist 4-5 hours of gameplay is adventuring through the upper city, the lower city, and the undercity. While of course there would be differances (no laser guns or lightsabres) I thought it's a fairly decent graphical representation of how Sharn's would change the deeper you got.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Synonymous 02-05-05, 05:14 PM	Maybe I'm just dense, but I have a hard time visualizing the lower levels of Sharn. Looking at the maps, I get the impression that all of the tower bases merge together to form one enourmous indoor building, sort of like a shopping mall from hell. Is this right? If I enter Malleon's Gate from one end, can I walk all the way to the other side without going outside? Can I walk all the way through other lower wards, as well, without going outside? Can anyone help me get a handle on this? Thanks.
snikt-snikt 02-05-05, 05:36 PM	Trust me either we are both dense or its not well described-I have had a hard time with this too. I think that some of the towers may merge together to form a "shopping mall" type complex, but I also imagine some space inbetween some of the towers. Kind of like a maze of small, dirty alleys winding inbetween the mammoth towers. The alleys would be cluttered with debris and trash from years of garbage slidding down the sides of the towers. Hope this helps, do you have any ideas?
Greenintern 02-05-05, 05:46 PM	As far as I can tell, it isnt described in excruciating detail, which I can understand somewhat, as I'm sure its a bit more complex that we might believe. As for my view, I too think that the towers eventually converge into some sort of large structure, although I'd think less like a shopping mall than like a sewer basin. Obviously there would be more well guarded exits/entrances, but ofr the most part, I think it would be one giant free-for-all down there. It would probably be a nice place to go for a black market, or to disappear if you were being followed. Just make sure you don't have too big a coin purse, or just shined your armor.
Kast 02-05-05, 06:37 PM	Just think of Manhatten, except there would be all kinds of bridges going between the buildings. If these bridges were wide enough and strong enough, they would have towers built on top of them as well and those might have bridges between them. A large plaze could be built by connecting 4 towers together with one big platform. Even though all these towers are connected as such above, doesn't mean street-level has changed that much from when the towers were first built. Except of course for the lack of direct light and fresh breezes. The view from the bottom would be like looking up from the middle of a pile of "pick-up-sticks".
Synonymous 02-05-05, 08:58 PM	Hm, the Manhattan analogy makes sense, and it's easy for me to picture. I think snikt-snikt is right, though, that it would be more like winding alleys and mazes than well-planned streets- maybe more like downtown Manhattan, rather than Uptown. Thanks, guys- It's good to know I'm not the only one puzzled by this. Maybe in the future some maps will be published, that would help quite a bit.
Hakan 02-06-05, 02:10 AM	I think it would be almost exactly like Manhattan. But not street level. There is a vast subterrainian Manhattan: The Subways, Sewers, landfills... There exists an underground society of homeless (Great Documentary, Dark Days). And I picture Sharn to be that kind of layers environment, host to filth eaters and mold and slimes. At the lowest levels massively overfat Otyughs and passages to Kyber. Just my vision. But I grew up in NYC. As always: Whatever works for you.
FuzzCube 02-06-05, 03:33 AM	I agreen with Hakan. Lower level Sharn is very different from Manhattan. Above ground the towers almost touch each other, there are no broad avenues and streets, just very narrow Canyon like pathways formed by the tower walls. The place would be a maze of crisscorssing narrow streets filled with smoke and smog. Very little light reaches this level. Undergound Sharn is a bit like underground Manhattan but on a larger scale. It's a big mix of tunnels and sewers. It also contains things no modern city has. There are vast caverns containing foundries and factories that use lava as a source of energy. Now add Dhaakaani ruins to the mix. In some cases whole Dhaakaani buildings survived the years, but in other cases only modern inhabitants used the stones and statues of the Dhaakaani buildings to build new constructs, or to support tunnels. An old Dhaakaani hall of heroes is now used as a vast goblin slum area. Of course this is just how I see it ;).
GrayS 02-08-05, 07:54 AM	Synonymous, don't hold your breath waiting for decent maps of Sharn. Much as I would happily commit several horrible crimes too hideous to mention, just to get my hands on a decent set of Sharn maps, I can't see it happening. WotC seem to be extremely poor at giving us the stuff we actually need. They will give us fluff 'til it's coming out our ears - that easy to produce/create. But MAPS require real actual work, thinking, creativity and above all, consistency. That's all far too much like hard work for WotC to consider doing any time soon. So, much as I adore Eberron for it's flavor, mood, setting, tone etc etc etc. I am always disappointed when a new Ebby book is released that the maps are so darned pathetic. To date there has been no exceptions at all. Only the web enhancement poster map of Khorvaire is half-way decent, and we had to beg and grovel for months before that was released on the web - we've got to wait until the DMs screen is published to get a hard-copy..... But I digress - I agree with the manhattan/pick-up-sticks concept. It's the nearest my imagination can come to, given the massive scale of the towers (1 mile = 5280ft = about 3 x the height of the Sears Tower!).
Dravot 02-08-05, 08:20 AM	There's an area in Center City (downtown) Philadelphia that I think of as the perfect example of the Sharn undercity. It runs for blocks, mostly east-west, but it does meander a bit. There are entrances to the subway, and to the commuter trains there, and there are a variety of shops and stores as well. Many of the buildings have basement entrances from the tunnels. In some areas it's wide and open, in other areas it's a narrow 10' wide tunnel; quality of the lighting varies, too. There's a mix of homeless people and commuters and everything in between. I'm pretty certain I've seen a couple of aberrations down there as well. ;)
Darrius Adler 02-08-05, 10:38 AM	The City of Towers novel actually helped me to get a better idea of Sharn's appearance as the characters visit many areas of the city.
Nived 02-08-05, 10:52 AM	This might sound crazy but I dusted off an old video game just last night that gave me some insight. Since I don't have the system reqs (or an x-box) to play Knights of the Old Republic II (at least not till next paycheck) I dusted off KotoR I to get my fix... I had completely forgotten about Tarsis. A city-planet that is divided vertically. The fist 4-5 hours of gameplay is adventuring through the upper city, the lower city, and the undercity. While of course there would be differances (no laser guns or lightsabres) I thought it's a fairly decent graphical representation of how Sharn's would change the deeper you got.