Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Jarun 07-06-07, 04:35 AM	Hello eberron-fans, in our next session I'd like to play a druid from the eldeen reaches, which belongs to the sect of the Ashbounds. But there some background information, which make it hard to play one of this guys. 1. They hate magic! Does this mean that they also don't use magic items? I think, a char, without items will get a problem in the higher Levels. 2. What do the Ashbounds think about Dragonmarks? I only found in the source books, that they hate the magical breeding of animals. 3. What about Healing? Can an Ashbound use an Potion of Cure light wounds, without have a problem with his own sect? 4. I also found, that they don't use manufactured Weapons and Armor? So, an Quarterstaff and no Armor is the best Equipment, that I get? Because I don't can use Bracers of Armor. There are so much restrictions, which makes me feel, that an Ashbound isn't playable, when you try to follow there real role in Eberron. CU. Jarun P. S. I hope, you understand my questions. I come from Germany and my english isn't really good.
Syltorian 07-06-07, 06:41 AM	Well, as my fav. character is a heir of Vadalis, I probably shouldn't be helping an Ashbound out, but anyway... :D 1. They hate magic! Does this mean that they also don't use magic items? I think, a char, without items will get a problem in the higher Levels. Magic items that are not based of druid/ranger spells would be a problem. Of course, you could find a lot that are based of natural spells, especially those useful to druids already (druid's vestments, etc). Alternatively, if your DM agrees, and the rest of the board doesn't try to flay me alive for suggesting this, perhaps you could adapt the Vow of Poverty feat. You get less choice and no fun items, but you have not inconsiderable power and it fits the philosophy of the civilisation-hating Ashbound quite well. 2. What do the Ashbounds think about Dragonmarks? I only found in the source books, that they hate the magical breeding of animals. There's fanatics and moderates even amongst the Ashbound, though even a moderate Ashbound isn't too tolerant. He does not mind magical beasts or creatures with spell-like abilities in general, though, so dragonmarks should be fine. As long as you don't abuse them (i.e. don't built a financial empire on them). Of course, as the Ashbound aren't all that unified, philosophies may diverge. Some might believe aberrant marks are corrupt, others that all of the marks are mutations and should be purged. I believe this is mostly down to the individual. 3. What about Healing? Can an Ashbound use an Potion of Cure light wounds, without have a problem with his own sect? Provided that Potion of Cure Light Wounds was created with druidic rituals, he's fine with it. Otherwise, no. 4. I also found, that they don't use manufactured Weapons and Armor? So, an Quarterstaff and no Armor is the best Equipment, that I get? Because I don't can use Bracers of Armor. Quarterstaff, club, or even convince your DM to let you use animal parts that resemble weapons. A dire-tiger tooth as a dagger, for instance. Again a reason why I see the Ashbound as good candidates for a (non-exalted) Vow of Poverty. Needs some work to balance that because the feat assumes you're exalted, and Ashbound aren't really. There are so much restrictions, which makes me feel, that an Ashbound isn't playable, when you try to follow there real role in Eberron. Yes, Ashbound are the most restricted of the druidic groups. Their basic idea is to reject civilisation, which is what most of Eberron is about. But some of them lead by example rather than raids. They may be few, but they exist. Go into the cities, and show people why they are corrupt. Try to repair the Mourning, it destroyed nature as well as cities. Tell them that the war would not have happened without civilisation. Show them how to help themselves without corrupting magic. It's difficult, and might even cause conflicts in the party. But if they agree, it could be a very rewarding game. P. S. I hope, you understand my questions. I come from Germany and my english isn't really good. Don't worry. Your English is perfectly intelligible :)
Jarun 07-06-07, 07:40 AM	Thank you, Syltorian, for all these answers! In our group the vow of poverty is banned! :-) So, it isn't an option for me! I think, I try too play without magic items. Only, when it is clearly visible, that the item is an artefakt of nature, I would use it. The answer about the dragonmarks is helpfull. So, I have to hate the comercial use of the Dragonmarks too mainpulate nature like cannith or vadalis, but don't see people with carefully used Dragonmarks as enemy. I thought about the option, to give the char a Dragonmark of Vadalis. But I doesn' t know, how to bring this two differnt aspects together. Now I focus on Summon Spells and feats that are usefull in this way. I think, I try this char best as I can. Let's see, how it works. CU. Philip
Darakhoranon 07-06-07, 08:57 AM	You could also concentrate on your Wildshape ability... Just take Natural Spell (yeah, I know, a bit boring...) and cast magic fang on your natural weapons after you´ve changed into an angry bear. You wouldn´t really NEED magical toys if you did this...
Syltorian 07-06-07, 10:55 AM	In our group the vow of poverty is banned! :-) So, it isn't an option for me! Too bad, but I respect your DM on this. I'd be loathe to accept it myself, to be honest. What level is this campaign, by the way? We might be able to make some suggestions of natural magic artifacts, if you give us the approximate wealth level. The answer about the dragonmarks is helpfull. So, I have to hate the comercial use of the Dragonmarks too mainpulate nature like cannith or vadalis, but don't see people with carefully used Dragonmarks as enemy. A moderate Ashbound would probably hate the Houses (all of them; they all manipulate nature or stand for civilisation in one way or anoter) as entities, but be ready to give individual members a chance. Any who participate in the House's activities, however, would be either enemies, or at least misguided people in need of guidance. I thought about the option, to give the char a Dragonmark of Vadalis. But I doesn' t know, how to bring this two differnt aspects together. Now I focus on Summon Spells and feats that are usefull in this way. There's several ways. Maybe a member of House Vadalis believes its house is wrong. Fairly unlikely, given the house believes in strong family connections and is unlikely to have many member run over to the enemy, but not impossible. There only needs to be one, after all - your PC. Maybe some more moderate Ashbound let him live when they raided his home ranch and massacred his family. He was still a suckling babe, and they brought him up. Now he's fanatically devoted to them. He doesn't have, and doesn't want any connections to his blood-relatives. Maybe he is a recent convert, traumatised by a recent event that showed him why magic is dangerous. Perhaps it was the Mourning, perhaps something as localised as a Vadalis experiment going terribly wrong in a minor outpost, that left him scarred. Whatever it is, he is utterly convinced that if magic continues to be used as it is, it will spell the end of the world. Maybe he has been thrown out of Vadalis for another reason. Personally, I think that one has to go very far to be excoriated by Vadalis, as they are the tightest-knit family of all the dragonmarked ones, and stick to their own even in the face of bad business consequences, but it's possible. Having been excoriated, he has come to hate the house, and joined up with its enemies. He's now come to appreciate their ideals beyond mere hatred for his former cousins. Maybe it's just an accident. Dragonmark foundlings happen. His connection to Vadalis lies several generations back in an unrecorded tryst. He grew up with the Ashbound, or at least studied with them, much like everybody else in the sect did: his Vadalis heritage didn't matter, because he didn't know about it. Then he developed his mark. He may or may not be torn about what it means for him. I think, I try this char best as I can. Let's see, how it works. Good luck and enjoy! :) Now I focus on Summon Spells and feats that are usefull in this way. If you have access to Dragonmarked and some feats to spare, consider Dragonmarked Summoner if you go the Vadalis route.
Jarun 07-06-07, 11:23 AM	Thank you, Syltorian! The ideas, how to combine the Dragonmark with the Ashbounds are very nice. Maybe I'll try one of this backgrounds. Everyone of our Chars start at Level 1.*gg* So, any magic item at this point are not needed. I hope my DM will give us items, which fit into the descrition of natural! My DM will give me the option, that healing from House Jorasco isn't real magic, so that I can buy my healing-potions there, without I break the ashbound's law. I think, he don't want, that I die in the first fight. Isn't he an nice DM. Maybe not in the rules! But ok! I think so! Have a nice weekend! CU. Jarun
grifo 07-06-07, 12:25 PM	Jarun I think the vadalis ashbound is a cool roleplaying concept. personally i would make an ex-cyren who nearly died in the mourning, something along the lines of: "on the day of the mourning my family and i were on our way out of cyre. We were on our way back to verna after 15 years in the metrol branch. As the mist got closer we drove our horses faster and further but it was no use, one by one I saw my family members disappear into the mist. My father, my mother, my brothers and sisters, all gone in a matter of minutes, and even as the mist stopped I couldn't look back. "It was Only a week later, when I was found by a group of brelish soldiers, that i finally understood what happened. only then did I realize it was not a man who killed my family but nature itself. Eberron himself destroyed cyre, pnishing it's people for their sins against nature. That day I swore an oath, an oath to protect nature at all costs, an oath to destroy all who have turned from the path of the land, an oath to avenge my loved ones, and to save the world from itself." Wow, even I didn't see this one coming. By the way, what's "Vow of poverty"? And don't worry about your English, the boards are very spelling mistake friendly.
korcheck 07-06-07, 12:57 PM	Most ashbound are shifters if you go that route you won't need weapons as much or armor if you focus on shifter feats look at races of eberron there is a dreamsite shifter that make great druids with a bonus to wisdom.
Syltorian 07-06-07, 01:43 PM	Everyone of our Chars start at Level 1.*gg* So, any magic item at this point are not needed. I hope my DM will give us items, which fit into the descrition of natural! So not quite a problem yet! :) My DM will give me the option, that healing from House Jorasco isn't real magic, so that I can buy my healing-potions there, without I break the ashbound's law. I think, he don't want, that I die in the first fight. Isn't he an nice DM. Maybe not in the rules! But ok! I think so! You're DM is definitely kinder than I would be. :D By the way, do you own/have access to Faiths of Eberron? It has a few pages on the Ashbound, which would help you a lot. By the way, what's "Vow of poverty"? A controversial feat from the Book of Exalted Deeds. It basically gives you magical powers usually limited to items (mindblank, armor, deflection, resistance bonuses, sustenance, etc) as well as additional exalted feats, scaling with your character level. In return, you may not use anything beyond a non-magical weapon and some clothes, and some rations. Some consider it easily abused, especially with monks and druids, who don't rely much on equipment (or can't use it because it fuses in wildshape, anyway). There's some advice on how to deal with it it here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sg/20060609a) and here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sg/20060616a). Most ashbound are shifters if you go that route you won't need weapons as much or armor if you focus on shifter feats look at races of eberron there is a dreamsite shifter that make great druids with a bonus to wisdom. Shifters and Humans, actually. But yes, there's good advice here. Shifters are extremely well suited for that sect. Easier time all around than humans, for sure, if you forswear equipment. If you go that route, RoE has not only great feats, but also interesting substitution levels for druids.
korcheck 07-06-07, 01:48 PM	Shifters and Humans, actually. But yes, there's good advice here. Shifters are extremely well suited for that sect. Easier time all around than humans, for sure, if you forswear equipment. If you go that route, RoE has not only great feats, but also interesting substitution levels for druids. And the Moonspeaker PrC class fits the ashbound almost perfectly! Personally I would rather have the 1st lvl substitution for the shifter druid than a pet anyday that bump in one stat/day is almost reason enough.
Edymnion 07-07-07, 09:17 PM	I may be miss-remembering, but aren't the Ashbound against the IMPROPER use of magic, not just the use of magic in general? If so, you could easily have a PC Ashbound that hates spellcasters in general, but is willing to use magical items and have arcane casters in the group on the grounds that they use magic responcibly.
Rerecros 07-07-07, 09:34 PM	I concur with Edymnion. Magic is fine, as long as it doesn't toy around with nature. A hermetic wizard living in the woods would be fine, until he starts grafting plants and animals together to build his mutant army. They likely dispise the dragonmarked houses for the industrialization of magic, and their hand in the destructivity of the last war. Though they would see dragonmarked house members who sympathized with their cause as allies.
Manyfist 07-07-07, 09:40 PM	I may be miss-remembering, but aren't the Ashbound against the IMPROPER use of magic, not just the use of magic in general? If so, you could easily have a PC Ashbound that hates spellcasters in general, but is willing to use magical items and have arcane casters in the group on the grounds that they use magic responsibly. Moderate Ashbounds could be against only Improper use of magic. However the idea they gave in ECS and Faiths of Eberron is that all Arcane magic is considered "Un-natural" as well as farming, building villages, and Cities. However the Ashbound are just loosely connected, mostly in name only, so it will vary from group to group.
Hellcow 07-07-07, 11:55 PM	I may be miss-remembering, but aren't the Ashbound against the IMPROPER use of magic, not just the use of magic in general? Certainly this is the stance of the more moderate members of the sect. I've DM'd for an Ashbound druid based around this principle, in the same party as a wizard. It's not "Kill everyone who uses magic" - it's "Make them understand the dangers of careless use of magic; make them realize the deadly forces they are toying with. In times of great need, it may be necessary to use such powers, but you should always consider the danger and the cost." So she didn't have to kill the wizard, but she certainly tried to make him look at magic in a new light - pointing to the Mourning as the ultimate example of what careless overuse of magic could do to the world. Also, "manufactured" goods largely means "industrial". Though some won't, I usally let ashbound wear things like leather or leafweave armor, provided they are hand-crafted.
Darth Syntax 07-08-07, 12:02 AM	To me the Ashbound have always represented a kind of hyper-radical luddism that abhors any cultural item or notion that moves people away from a strict hunter-gatherer society, which they see as the natural state of humanoids. A "true" Ashbound would find agriculture, settled communities, animal husbandry, metal smithing, writing, magic, and all such things to be inherently "evil" and detrimental to people. Essentially the Ashbound want to reverse the development of civilization and bring everything back to the Eberron equivalent of the pre-Neolithic revolution Stone Age.
ArcTan 07-08-07, 01:35 AM	To me the Ashbound have always represented a kind of hyper-radical luddism that abhors any cultural item or notion that moves people away from a strict hunter-gatherer society, which they see as the natural state of humanoids. A "true" Ashbound would find agriculture, settled communities, animal husbandry, metal smithing, writing, magic, and all such things to be inherently "evil" and detrimental to people. Essentially the Ashbound want to reverse the development of civilization and bring everything back to the Eberron equivalent of the pre-Neolithic revolution Stone Age. That would probably be the most extreme sect of Ashbound (even in real life, that's by far the most extreme version of "luddism" you could name).
Moosh Nailo 07-10-07, 05:11 PM	I was under the impression that the Ashbound simply hated arcane magic, not divine. Seems I was wrong, though...
Cifer 07-10-07, 06:47 PM	Alternatively, if your DM agrees, and the rest of the board doesn't try to flay me alive for suggesting this, perhaps you could adapt the Vow of Poverty feat. One excoriation, coming right up. While I believe the VoP to be fine in general, druids are the one class that pretty much breaks it. Usually, the VoP could be considered rather weak since you need your party members to provide you with anything you'd normally need items for (flight, invisibility, sometimes storage space when you need to carry something big,...), but druids get to circumvent most of that with their own spellcasting and their wildshaping.
Dragom 07-10-07, 06:51 PM	To me the Ashbound have always represented a kind of hyper-radical luddism that abhors any cultural item or notion that moves people away from a strict hunter-gatherer society, which they see as the natural state of humanoids. A "true" Ashbound would find agriculture, settled communities, animal husbandry, metal smithing, writing, magic, and all such things to be inherently "evil" and detrimental to people. Essentially the Ashbound want to reverse the development of civilization and bring everything back to the Eberron equivalent of the pre-Neolithic revolution Stone Age. That would probably be the most extreme sect of Ashbound (even in real life, that's by far the most extreme version of "luddism" you could name). You guys don't hang out with enough meat-starved, pennyless, Logging truck sabotaging, tree hugging, hardcore, utopian, hippies. Many want a hunter gatherer stone age, minus the hunting and the stone tied to a stick. No, they don't think it through to the "what happens next" or the rout between here and there, but they do want it and will rant and rave about it at the slightest provokation.
Syltorian 07-10-07, 07:33 PM	One excoriation, coming right up. While I believe the VoP to be fine in general, druids are the one class that pretty much breaks it. Usually, the VoP could be considered rather weak since you need your party members to provide you with anything you'd normally need items for (flight, invisibility, sometimes storage space when you need to carry something big,...), but druids get to circumvent most of that with their own spellcasting and their wildshaping. True, but (while I don't want to start an argument on the VoP here and derail the thread, so I won't comment much further on this - and please keep in mind this is mostly playing the Devil's Advocate), one could argue that, if a druid is so self-sufficient, the VoP does not matter much. If he can circumvent the VoP, he can circumvent the entire treasure-balance, too, since that's what the VoP is more or less based on. It does give them an advantage since most items would be lost in wildshape, but it takes away any versatility and requires them to spend more spells than they otherwise would. The VoP is clear what a character can have and cannot have: no expensive material components, for example, which eliminates a few spells as possibilities; no protection for the animal companion without wasting spells (okay, they can share them, but it still spends resources), no nifty little items that are small in themselves but can still make a difference (and there is some really cool stuff out there they will miss out on, too), no contributing to the party, except, again, by spending more spells which are not limitless either, can be disrupted and counter-spelled, do not function if the druid is entangled, silenced, or otherwise impeded, and need to be prepared in advance. Items have many problems and faults too, but VoP is not a fail-save way, either, and while I feel the DM should not try and break a VoP character, he should definitely challenge him, and put him before choices that are difficult (though not, of course, no-win situations). Yes, the druid has many advantages and the VoP helps him even after he has run out of spells, he cannot be stripped of his non-existent items, but in an non-wilderness game, especially one where economy is as important as it is in Eberron, he still has to face many problems. Though of course, not fitting into the Dragonmarked gala is part of the point of the Ashbound... With all that said, yes, the VoP can be dangerous with a monk or druid, and I would allow the VoP to be used only by a player in who I have an absolute trust that he is not to even think about abusing it, and who I know is choosing it for the story and role-playing value. But I would not rule it out completely, as such a character could be very interesting if played with consideration. And besides, what is good for the goose is good for the gander. There's NPC Ashbound around, along with Kalashtar monks and psions, and assorted other VoP candidates. I would not want to strip my players of the wonderful opportunity of meeting such an NPC on the opposite side of a battle... :D Not that any of this matters, though, because the OP's DM doesn't allow it. ;)
Soltares 07-10-07, 08:55 PM	Many popular items could be easier crafted using Druidic magic. Shillelagh could be used to fashion wooden weapons, while Magic Fang could be adapted to empower a weapon made of bone. Barkskin could make generic magic armor. Resistance could empower a Cloak of Resistance. Potions or Wands of Cure Light Wounds, or Lesser Vigor, are as craftable with Druidic magic as with Clerical magic. Longstrider and Jump could be used to make Boots of Striding and Springing. Summon Nature's Ally for a Bag of Tricks. Bear's Endurance, Bull's Strength, Cat's Grace and Owl's Wisdom can craft the appropriate stat enhancers. Many of the popular items are quite available to someone who eschews arcane spells, or even clerical spells.
ArcTan 07-11-07, 06:11 AM	You guys don't hang out with enough meat-starved, pennyless, Logging truck sabotaging, tree hugging, hardcore, utopian, hippies. Many want a hunter gatherer stone age, minus the hunting and the stone tied to a stick. No, they don't think it through to the "what happens next" or the rout between here and there, but they do want it and will rant and rave about it at the slightest provokation. And how many of them are actually committed enough to this concept to both forgo the use of technology in their own daily lives and take direct, violent action to advance their goals? Not that many, and probably only the craziest ones.
Yorath_theWolf 07-11-07, 11:05 AM	4. I also found, that they don't use manufactured Weapons and Armor? So, an Quarterstaff and no Armor is the best Equipment, that I get? Because I don't can use Bracers of Armor. ehhh only point I'll really chime in with. no you can still get other weapons and armor really. hide armor, studded leather, the various leaf-weave and wooden armors as well as bronze-wood carved alternatives to druid weapons. heck a silver sycle is probably acceptable as well as long as it's crafted by one of the groups artizans as opposed to 'stamped' out as so much seems to be in the more 'civilized' parts of the world. also, while the bracers of armor are harder to ok as they're arcane creations, any druidic created magic items won't really be frowned on.
Dragom 07-12-07, 08:03 PM	Not that many, and probably only the craziest ones. Your right. Only a small cult of personality, a leader and two flunkies. But boy did he ever get a lot of support from the community/
Kamikaze Chicken 07-13-07, 12:26 PM	personally i think a ranger/fighter/occult slayer/ashbound eldeen ranger can be very fun. you abhor arcane magic, distrust artifice, question the motives of clerics, but embrace druidic tradition. You can tolerate arcane casters, but not on you. The build is playable from the lowest levels and at higher levels you can really hurt arcane casters. especiall when you get SR 20 at eldeen ranger 5. KAMIKAZE! :chicken: out.