artificer item creation [Archive] - Wizards Community

artificer item creation [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
tvar1
08-01-07, 11:49 AM Ok, I think I pretty much understand how Artificer item creation works. I only have one question.

For the DC of the UMD check (20 + caster level) when creating things like Wondrous Items, is the CL the one given in the item description, or is it the minimum CL required to cast the spell? For instance, Amulet of Health requires: CL 8, bear's endurance. Is the DC 28 or 23? I'm thinking 28 but I just want to make sure.

For items that require multiple spells, does that mean all spells have the same exact DC to emulate?
TiwazTyrsfist
08-01-07, 02:05 PM I find it a little unclear, but my best assumption is that the caster level check is the minimum caster level for the item, and must be made for each spell emulated.

However, on some items, I think it would vary. For example, if you had a necklace of fire ball, with 2 3d6, 2 5d6 and 7d6 pearls, you would need to make 2 23 checks, 2 25 checks, and a 27 check.

Basically, I think you need to take each item individually, and talk with the DM.

Item creation is always a bit touch and go.
Belkar
08-02-07, 03:23 PM As I understand it, the caster level for the item doesn't directly relate to the prerequisite spells. If you were to create amulet of health, you've have to be able to cast bear's endurance and be an 8th level caster.

As an artificer, you'd need to make a UMD check to "be an 8th level caster" and another UMD check to emulate the spell. That's it.
tvar1
08-02-07, 08:00 PM No, I am pretty sure there is no UMD check to "be an 8th level caster". An artificer simply needs to meet that prerequisite. An artificer counts as a caster level of his artificer level + 2 for this prerequisite.
tvar1
08-02-07, 08:23 PM Sorry for the double post but I'm kind of moving to another question in this topic.

What if a 7th level Artificer is crafting a Wondrous Item that requires CL 9 and has a 5th level spell as a prerequisite? Since his caster level counts as 2 higher, It seems like he can do this just fine (assuming he makes the DC 29 UMD check to emulate the 5th level spell), right?

Now what if this item is, say, Boots of Teleportation. Does this trigger the caveat where the Artificer's caster level does not get the +2 bonus because the item "duplicates a spell effect"? Assuming he doesn't get the bonus (which seems like it should be the case to me), does he now have Boots of Teleportation that allow him to cast Teleport as though his caster level was only 7 (for purposes of passengers and distance)? Or can he no longer even craft the item since the item requires CL 9 and he doesn't get his +2 bonus?

This seems like a problem since normally you never need to track the caster level of wondrous items, but it seems like you might have to if Artificers can create sub-par wondrous items like this.
Belkar
08-03-07, 02:36 PM No, I am pretty sure there is no UMD check to "be an 8th level caster". An artificer simply needs to meet that prerequisite. An artificer counts as a caster level of his artificer level + 2 for this prerequisite.

Just checked the guide - and you're absolutely right! So... he simply needs to be the an artificer level equal to the item's caster lvl req.-2 (if there even is one), and a UMD check for the spell. So, for a scroll... there isn't even a level requirement if he can pull off the UMD check (since scrolls don't have a crafting level req, just the ability to cast the spell).

Cool.
TiwazTyrsfist
08-03-07, 05:27 PM So, in order to craft a Bag of Holding, for example, You'd have to be a 7th level artificer (9th level -2) and make a UMD check DC 29 (Because the minimum level to cast Secret Chest is 9th, since its a 5th level wizard spell), Right?
Michael_Silverforge
08-09-07, 11:49 AM So, in order to craft a Bag of Holding, for example, You'd have to be a 7th level artificer (9th level -2) and make a UMD check DC 29 (Because the minimum level to cast Secret Chest is 9th, since its a 5th level wizard spell), Right?

Correct

Now what if this item is, say, Boots of Teleportation. Does this trigger the caveat where the Artificer's caster level does not get the +2 bonus because the item "duplicates a spell effect"? Assuming he doesn't get the bonus (which seems like it should be the case to me), does he now have Boots of Teleportation that allow him to cast Teleport as though his caster level was only 7 (for purposes of passengers and distance)? Or can he no longer even craft the item since the item requires CL 9 and he doesn't get his +2 bonus?

This seems like a problem since normally you never need to track the caster level of wondrous items, but it seems like you might have to if Artificers can create sub-par wondrous items like this.

He can craft the item, but you are correct in that it will only function as though the caster level were 7. See the example of the 3rd level Artificer creating a Scroll of Fireball in the Artificer class description of ECS.
Michael_Silverforge
08-09-07, 12:27 PM Ok, I think I pretty much understand how Artificer item creation works. I only have one question.

For the DC of the UMD check (20 + caster level) when creating things like Wondrous Items, is the CL the one given in the item description, or is it the minimum CL required to cast the spell? For instance, Amulet of Health requires: CL 8, bear's endurance. Is the DC 28 or 23? I'm thinking 28 but I just want to make sure.

The UMD check is 20 + the minimum CL required to cast the spell. For this example, the artificer would need to be at least 6th level (CL 8 - 2) and would make a DC 23 UMD check (2nd level spell, minimum caster level 3)

For items that require multiple spells, does that mean all spells have the same exact DC to emulate?

For items that require multiple spells you make multiple UMD checks for each spell. The DC of the UMD check is based on that particular spell. For example: an artificer wishes to create a Cloak of the Bat. The prerequisites are: CL 7th; Craft Wondrous Item, fly, polymorph. The artificer would need to be at least 5th level (CL7 – 2 = 5) and would need to make a UMD check DC 25 for the ‘Fly’ spell (3rd level spell, minimum caster level 5) AND a UMD check DC 27 for the ‘Polymorph’ spell (4th level spell, minimum caster level 7)

Note: You only make UMD checks for the ‘spell prerequisite(s)’, you MUST satisfy all other prerequisites. In other words, you must meet the CL-2 level requirement, you must have the appropriate Item Creation Feat, AND you must meet all other requirements. If you want to create a Cloak of Elvenkind, you must be an elf.; if you want to create a Belt of Dwarvenkind, you must be a dwarf; if you want to create Boots of Striding and Springing you must have 5 ranks in Jump, etc.
Michael_Silverforge
08-09-07, 12:45 PM However, on some items, I think it would vary. For example, if you had a necklace of fire ball, with 2 3d6, 2 5d6 and 7d6 pearls, you would need to make 2 23 checks, 2 25 checks, and a 27 check.

Master TiwazTyrsfist, I must disagree with the above. Using the example of an artificer wanting to make a Neclace of Fireballs, let's look at the prerequisites: CL 10th; Craft Wondrous Item, fireball. So, the artificer would need to be a minimum of 8th level (CL 10 - 2 = 8), would need the Craft Wondrous Item feat (which he gets as a 3rd level artificer), and would need to make a single UMD check against DC 25 (3rd level Wizard spell = minimum caster level of 5). Which type of necklace the artificer creates depends on how much gold he's willing to spend to create it (as well as time and XP). Since there's only one spell prerequisite, the artificer would only need to make one UMD roll to create it.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
tvar1 08-01-07, 11:49 AM	Ok, I think I pretty much understand how Artificer item creation works. I only have one question. For the DC of the UMD check (20 + caster level) when creating things like Wondrous Items, is the CL the one given in the item description, or is it the minimum CL required to cast the spell? For instance, Amulet of Health requires: CL 8, bear's endurance. Is the DC 28 or 23? I'm thinking 28 but I just want to make sure. For items that require multiple spells, does that mean all spells have the same exact DC to emulate?
TiwazTyrsfist 08-01-07, 02:05 PM	I find it a little unclear, but my best assumption is that the caster level check is the minimum caster level for the item, and must be made for each spell emulated. However, on some items, I think it would vary. For example, if you had a necklace of fire ball, with 2 3d6, 2 5d6 and 7d6 pearls, you would need to make 2 23 checks, 2 25 checks, and a 27 check. Basically, I think you need to take each item individually, and talk with the DM. Item creation is always a bit touch and go.
Belkar 08-02-07, 03:23 PM	As I understand it, the caster level for the item doesn't directly relate to the prerequisite spells. If you were to create amulet of health, you've have to be able to cast bear's endurance and be an 8th level caster. As an artificer, you'd need to make a UMD check to "be an 8th level caster" and another UMD check to emulate the spell. That's it.
tvar1 08-02-07, 08:00 PM	No, I am pretty sure there is no UMD check to "be an 8th level caster". An artificer simply needs to meet that prerequisite. An artificer counts as a caster level of his artificer level + 2 for this prerequisite.
tvar1 08-02-07, 08:23 PM	Sorry for the double post but I'm kind of moving to another question in this topic. What if a 7th level Artificer is crafting a Wondrous Item that requires CL 9 and has a 5th level spell as a prerequisite? Since his caster level counts as 2 higher, It seems like he can do this just fine (assuming he makes the DC 29 UMD check to emulate the 5th level spell), right? Now what if this item is, say, Boots of Teleportation. Does this trigger the caveat where the Artificer's caster level does not get the +2 bonus because the item "duplicates a spell effect"? Assuming he doesn't get the bonus (which seems like it should be the case to me), does he now have Boots of Teleportation that allow him to cast Teleport as though his caster level was only 7 (for purposes of passengers and distance)? Or can he no longer even craft the item since the item requires CL 9 and he doesn't get his +2 bonus? This seems like a problem since normally you never need to track the caster level of wondrous items, but it seems like you might have to if Artificers can create sub-par wondrous items like this.
Belkar 08-03-07, 02:36 PM	No, I am pretty sure there is no UMD check to "be an 8th level caster". An artificer simply needs to meet that prerequisite. An artificer counts as a caster level of his artificer level + 2 for this prerequisite. Just checked the guide - and you're absolutely right! So... he simply needs to be the an artificer level equal to the item's caster lvl req.-2 (if there even is one), and a UMD check for the spell. So, for a scroll... there isn't even a level requirement if he can pull off the UMD check (since scrolls don't have a crafting level req, just the ability to cast the spell). Cool.
TiwazTyrsfist 08-03-07, 05:27 PM	So, in order to craft a Bag of Holding, for example, You'd have to be a 7th level artificer (9th level -2) and make a UMD check DC 29 (Because the minimum level to cast Secret Chest is 9th, since its a 5th level wizard spell), Right?
Michael_Silverforge 08-09-07, 11:49 AM	So, in order to craft a Bag of Holding, for example, You'd have to be a 7th level artificer (9th level -2) and make a UMD check DC 29 (Because the minimum level to cast Secret Chest is 9th, since its a 5th level wizard spell), Right? Correct Now what if this item is, say, Boots of Teleportation. Does this trigger the caveat where the Artificer's caster level does not get the +2 bonus because the item "duplicates a spell effect"? Assuming he doesn't get the bonus (which seems like it should be the case to me), does he now have Boots of Teleportation that allow him to cast Teleport as though his caster level was only 7 (for purposes of passengers and distance)? Or can he no longer even craft the item since the item requires CL 9 and he doesn't get his +2 bonus? This seems like a problem since normally you never need to track the caster level of wondrous items, but it seems like you might have to if Artificers can create sub-par wondrous items like this. He can craft the item, but you are correct in that it will only function as though the caster level were 7. See the example of the 3rd level Artificer creating a Scroll of Fireball in the Artificer class description of ECS.
Michael_Silverforge 08-09-07, 12:27 PM	Ok, I think I pretty much understand how Artificer item creation works. I only have one question. For the DC of the UMD check (20 + caster level) when creating things like Wondrous Items, is the CL the one given in the item description, or is it the minimum CL required to cast the spell? For instance, Amulet of Health requires: CL 8, bear's endurance. Is the DC 28 or 23? I'm thinking 28 but I just want to make sure. The UMD check is 20 + the minimum CL required to cast the spell. For this example, the artificer would need to be at least 6th level (CL 8 - 2) and would make a DC 23 UMD check (2nd level spell, minimum caster level 3) For items that require multiple spells, does that mean all spells have the same exact DC to emulate? For items that require multiple spells you make multiple UMD checks for each spell. The DC of the UMD check is based on that particular spell. For example: an artificer wishes to create a Cloak of the Bat. The prerequisites are: CL 7th; Craft Wondrous Item, fly, polymorph. The artificer would need to be at least 5th level (CL7 – 2 = 5) and would need to make a UMD check DC 25 for the ‘Fly’ spell (3rd level spell, minimum caster level 5) AND a UMD check DC 27 for the ‘Polymorph’ spell (4th level spell, minimum caster level 7) Note: You only make UMD checks for the ‘spell prerequisite(s)’, you MUST satisfy all other prerequisites. In other words, you must meet the CL-2 level requirement, you must have the appropriate Item Creation Feat, AND you must meet all other requirements. If you want to create a Cloak of Elvenkind, you must be an elf.; if you want to create a Belt of Dwarvenkind, you must be a dwarf; if you want to create Boots of Striding and Springing you must have 5 ranks in Jump, etc.
Michael_Silverforge 08-09-07, 12:45 PM	However, on some items, I think it would vary. For example, if you had a necklace of fire ball, with 2 3d6, 2 5d6 and 7d6 pearls, you would need to make 2 23 checks, 2 25 checks, and a 27 check. Master TiwazTyrsfist, I must disagree with the above. Using the example of an artificer wanting to make a Neclace of Fireballs, let's look at the prerequisites: CL 10th; Craft Wondrous Item, fireball. So, the artificer would need to be a minimum of 8th level (CL 10 - 2 = 8), would need the Craft Wondrous Item feat (which he gets as a 3rd level artificer), and would need to make a single UMD check against DC 25 (3rd level Wizard spell = minimum caster level of 5). Which type of necklace the artificer creates depends on how much gold he's willing to spend to create it (as well as time and XP). Since there's only one spell prerequisite, the artificer would only need to make one UMD roll to create it.