Post/Author/DateTime	Post
law 03-10-07, 11:49 PM	This week is a staff. Unlike the first two I did it is a more general staff. Plus it is truly an updated one I made a while back. Plus I wanted a staff that had all the abilitie enhancers spells in it. I hope you like this magic item. Beast-Totem Staff A Beast-Totem staff gives the user the ability to grant the insights of the beasts. Lore: Crafted from an obscure shifter wizard to help him in some task. It has just recently started to spread across Khorvaire (Knowledge [history] DC 10). Description: A Beast-Totem staff is a wooden staff with a Bear, a Bull, a Cat, an Eagle, a Fox, and an Owl carved on it. They seem to be stacked right on top of each other like a totem poll. Activation: You use this item by holding it in your hand and a standard action to activate one of the spells within and they must be on your spell-list. Effect: The Beast-Totem staff allows the use of the following spells: • Bear’s Endurance (1 charge) • Bull’s Strength (1 charge) • Cat’s Grace (1 charge) • Eagle’s Splendor (1 charge) • Fox’s Cunning (1 charge) • Owl’s Wisdom (1 charge) Aura/Caster Level: Moderate transmutation. CL 8th Construction: Requires Craft Staff, Bear’s Endurance, Bull’s Strength, Cat’s Grace, Eagle’s Spender, Fox’s Cunning, Owl’s Wisdom, 22,500 gp, 1800 XP, 45 days. Weight: 5 lb. Price: 45,000 gp.
JiCi 03-11-07, 12:55 PM	Looks good to me. It's simple and provides good spells. How about a greater staff, with all the mass versions ?
law 03-11-07, 08:37 PM	That can be done if there is one it will show up later then. Ill most liekly take it one with an other item.
OneWinged4ngel 03-13-07, 02:48 AM	Forgive me for being blunt, but... :rant: You could get this item and have to spend an action to buff someone for one battle. Or you could get 3 +4 stat enhancers and permanently buff the whole party for about the same price. Moreover, an artificer can do it at a much lower level than anyone can make this, because this is a staff, and no one's makin' these until high level. Doesn't look like a particularly useful item for the average guy... or anyone for that matter! The best thing you're getting out of it is the versatility to add +2 to a relevant check for a few minutes, *if* the character in question does not already have the stat enhancers he's likely to have invested in to enhance his key abilities at that level. You can't even really expect to use it to mass buff weak allies, because it's so dang expensive. Remember, I could just get 50 scrolls I wanted of these abilities for 7500 gp. And I could get 300 scrolls, one of each type of spell, for 45,000gp. That's right, 300 scrolls, 50 of each of the spells in your staff, costs the same as your staff. And your staff doesn't really scale the abilities much by caster level nor does it have a DC, so you don't even care about that. So for 6x the use out of this thing and the same versatility, I pay the same price. In fact, unless I'm reading the rules for creating magic items wrong, the cost of this staff even without considering the extreme similarities of its abilities would only be 16,875gp (750x6+.75x750x6+.5x750x6x4=16875) if created by a reasonable crafter. But wait, you made the caster level 8 for no good reason! So why are you trying to triple the price on people? To get a few more minutes of use? Sorry, but I could have gotten a better deal on the 300 scrolls, thanks. I'm sorry, but I've got to give this one another :thumbsdow . You told me not to judge by just one item, then you come out with yet another one that just isn't reasonable (and indeed doesn't present any particular new concept, but instead just stats out something *extremely inoptimally built* using the guidelines in the DMG, which takes no work at all. I could make thousands of items like this in a day... it's essentially filler work) Yet again, my sources and fact-finding took less than 2 minutes, which shows the amount of forethought put into this item. Please, at least try to make the items somewhat near affordable for their effects. I mean, just think of all those things people might want to do with an extra 30,000gp (specifically 28,125); possibly even more if you take into account the similarities of the effects. That's at least 562.5 *pounds* of gold that someone just threw away for a few extra minutes you're not going to need. Five hundred sixty-two and one half pounds of the shiny stuff. I'd make myself a bed of gold bars and pretend I'm a dragon rather than spend it on this thing. It's the sort of item PCs would never use, and would always sell, because even getting half price back is more cost-efficient than actually using the thing. Rating 2/10. That's about as low as I'll give providing the rules are actually legible. Here's something that might help you in the future. It's mostly what I'd consider obvious stuff, but the Behind the Scenes articles for the Magic Item Compendium go over some basic ideas of how to create useful magic items. http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dd/20070302a It should be noted that your items clearly fall under the purview of the "most items are awful" clause that would not be admitted into the Compendium. Unoriginal concept, unoriginal (okay, let's face it, almost nonexistant) fluff, and poor balance does not a good magic item make. The first two at least would be alright (or something that could be ignored) if it weren't for the fact that no PC group worth their salt would actually make use of this item in 99% of cases. I'm not trying to be mean or anything... just trying to point out your mistakes so that you can improve on your work :)
law 03-13-07, 11:32 AM	This is an old magic item that I updated. I was made a while back so I updated it. I could see it being used, but well thats me. Yes you could buy abilities enhancing items or over 100 srolls of the type you want for this staff. But well as I said it was an update of an item a made a while back. I have one more item persay that was made in this bunch. Ok its weapon enchancement that I would see being used for story purposes and if you like taint/like to spread taint around. But always making 5 start/4 start items cant be done anyway. Ill will try and as I do make them ill get better. Plus I do like that link and I plain on picking up that book. Since its good to see what is a truly good item and learn from that. But for now ill just do my best. Plus picking from my older items to update I will do so if it comes out a stinker thats what it comes out as. Since this is how I would rate magic items kind of using what I read there: ***** (Five star items always usfull) **** (For star items usfull most of the time.) *** (Three star items usfull some of the time.) ** (Two star items rarely usfull or two much of a hassle to use most of the time.) * (One star items, not worth the trooble at all.) I would even rate my item as three stars using that scale. Yes not worthy of the book of magic items but it can have its uses every now and then.
OneWinged4ngel 03-13-07, 03:24 PM	This is an old magic item that I updated. I was made a while back so I updated it. I could see it being used, but well thats me. Yes you could buy abilities enhancing items or over 100 Not 100! 300! This is a very large difference! If you don't think that *THREE TIMES* the number of items is significant in any way, then there is no saving you. srolls of the type you want for this staff. But well as I said it was an update of an item a made a while back. I have one more item persay that was made in this bunch. Ok its weapon enchancement that I would see being used for story purposes and if you like taint/like to spread taint around. But always making 5 start/4 start items cant be done anyway. Ill will try and as I do make them ill get better. Plus I do like that link and I plain on picking up that book. Since its good to see what is a truly good item and learn from that. But for now ill just do my best. Plus picking from my older items to update I will do so if it comes out a stinker thats what it comes out as. Since this is how I would rate magic items kind of using what I read there: ***** (Five star items always usfull) **** (For star items usfull most of the time.) *** (Three star items usfull some of the time.) ** (Two star items rarely usfull or two much of a hassle to use most of the time.) * (One star items, not worth the trooble at all.) Definitely falls under the purview off a one star item. There is absolutely no reason not to trash the item, let alone craft it. Thus, it is not worth the trouble at all. For anyone. That falls under the "one star" category. Not the three star category. I would even rate my item as three stars using that scale. That's way off, for the reasons I gave in my last post. The thing costs the same as 50 scrolls of each spell it uses (or 300 scrolls), giving you SIX TIMES the use for the same cost. Alternatively, you could make those bonuses permanent on 3 people. Alternatively, you could use the item creation rules to make basically the same item, with the very same usefulness, for less than half this thing's price. That's about as heavy a case for "crap item" as they come. Yes not worthy of the book of magic items but it can have its uses every now and then. No, it can't. No one would EVER use it. It's a one star item. It is always more valuable to sell it than to use it, so even if you get it free in a treasure hoard people are going to trash it... because the *same item* without the useless advanced caster level costs significantly less than this thing's *SELL PRICE!* If anyone's ever going to use one of your items, it has to actually have a sane price for the benefit it gives. If it doesn't, the item is *awful* and *useless*. That's just how it is.
law 03-14-07, 02:10 AM	Rember usless to you, is usless to you. Some people might use it. But if you say I suck ill stop making items for good, who knows you might not see me again. I can do that but the thing is I like making items I was going to try and make the items I made that need help better but I need to see what they did to the magic items in that book first comparing it to the items from the books I have. It took me a while to get good with spells (and making tons of them to get even to this point of balance: Lightning Dart Evocation [Electricity] Level: Sor/Wiz 3 Components: V, S, F Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level) Target: One Creature Duration: Instantaneous Saving throw: None Spell Resistance: Yes You flick your hand and shoot a dart of lightning from your palm. You must succeed at a ranged touch attack to hit your target. The dart deals a total of 1d6 points of electricity damage per caster level (maximum 10d6). Creatures with the Aquatic or Water subtype take 1d10 points of electricity damage per caster level (maximum 10d10). Focus: A copper Ring worth 6 gp. Zap Evocation [Fire, Electricity] Level: Sor/Wiz 0 Components: V, S Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: Close (25-ft. +5 ft./2 levels) Effect: Ray Duration: Instantaneous Saving Throw: None Spell Resistance: Yes You fire a thin orange-colored ray at your target. You must make a ranged touch attack to strike a target. On a successful hit, this spell deals 1 point of electricity and 1 point of fire damage to the target. Yes ones a little off and might be a little strong vs certon typews of creatures. But do you know how many spells it took to even get to this point of balance? I am still bumpling around with the magic items here I was making spells left and right and had some bumps down that road the fact that I have not had any good ideas for spell in a while is why I have not posted them. Do you think I made monsters well right off the bat like this one: Cannith Wasp Small Construct Hit Dice: 1d10+10 (15 hp) Initiative: +2 (+2 Dex) Speed: 5 ft. (1 square), Fly 60 ft. (Perfect) AC: 16 (+2 Dex, +1 size, +3 natural), touch 13, flat-footed 14 Base Attack/Grapple: +0/-1 Attack: Sting +4 melee (1d3+4 plus 1d6 electricity) Full Attack: Sting +4 melee (1d3+4 plus 1d6 electricity) or Spike +3 ranged (1d3+1 plus 1d6 electricity) Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft. Special Attacks: Shocking Strike, Spike Special Qualities: Construct Traits, Darkvision 60 ft., low-light vision, Damage Reduction 5/Magic Saves: Fort +0, Ref +2, Will -5 Abilities: Str 16, Dex 14, Con -, Int -, Wis 1, Cha 1 Skills: - Feats: - Environment: Any Organization: Solitary, pair, or Swarm (5-30) Challenge Rating: 2 Treasure: None Alignment: Always neutral Advancement: 2-3 HD (Small) Level Adjustment: - You see what looks to be a large copper wasp, its stinger seems to have small arcs of lighting. The cannith wasp was one of the few constructs that were mass-produced during the war. In fact, it is one of the few that they are still being made after the war. Found to work well in mass numbers taking down enemy troops with out taking much losses them selves proved to be a good trait, plus the fact that they could fly helped them in many combats. Now most of these constructs are found in the mornlands guarding the places they where last told to. While the process on how to mass-produce them has been lost. The knowledge on how to make them has not. Combat Cannith Wasps try to overwhelm their targets. Stinging and hitting them with there spike attacks at a range. Shocking Strike (Su): A cannith wasp deals an extra 1d6 points of electricity damage with its sting and spike attacks. Spike (Ex): This ranged attack has a range of 30 feet and does 1d3+1 points of piercing damage. Construction A Cannith Wasp is made out of 500 pounds of copper costing at least 1,000 gp. Assembling the body requires a DC 15 Craft (armorsmithing) check or a DC 15 Craft (weaponsmithing) check. CL 4th; Craft Construct, Shocking Grasp, Unseen Servant, caster must be at least 4th level; Price 30,000 gp; Cost 15,000 gp +1,200 XP It took me longer to even get that good with monsters which I also have not made in a while. Yes thats in an older format. Give me time to worm up and get going, help me do it dont down play me to much. Why do I think I did well with those? I could see the spells that where out there, I could see the monsters that where out there, and I was having fun. If you still think im a bumbling and none creative/cant make if balanced and fun. Then ill stop if you want. But I have been around the block and plus I said I was trying to get back into making things. We all have are winners and are losers. Plus I noticed you missed my last magic item. Yes I said it was based off of a different magic item, but as someone pointed out they would rather use something else a constum made metamagic rod with the spell in it. Is his idea better might be is mine fun and could I see a use for it yes. Is it that great of an item well what could you see it being used for? Probly nothing right? Plus the last time I did not use the DMG prices I got yelled at for that since it did not use the right math. Check it it was item #1 that I had too cheep and as such once it was fixed you could say why it sucks. Plus the item that this was based off of was one that I liked the idea back when I first made it. Since it was made a year or two ago for a staff making contest that someone was running on the bords. So this was un update on it a try to do it right. Which I could have done again. But if I just suck ill do it in places that no one will see it from now on. But other wise we need to find a place where we botyh can agree on how it should be done.
OneWinged4ngel 03-14-07, 03:38 AM	Rember usless to you, is usless to you. Some people might use it. But if you say I suck ill stop making items for good, who knows you might not see me again. I can do that but the thing is I like making items I was going to try and make the items I made that need help better but I need to see what they did to the magic items in that book first comparing it to the items from the books I have. What a great way to react to an honest, constructive critique. :rolleyes: Anyways, it's useless to pretty much everyone, because it is hard-on outgunned by significatly cheaper items, in every aspect of its function. It's not just me. It's not some specific situation. I demonstrated this extensively in my earlier posts. If that logic doesn't make sense to you, I can't really help you any more than that. The CL should probably be lowered, and the price should be more in the ballpark of 10k if you want players to actually use it. Additionally, if you want to make it a unique item instead of just a cut-out of the staff creation rules, you probably should embellish it a bit. help me do it dont down play me to much. I'm *trying* to help you do it. If I weren't, I'd just handwave it as subpar design and not bother replying to the thread. I just tend to be quite blunt, because this is how I try to get the facts across. ___ In order to make a good magic item, the *main* thing you have to consider is the price. If it's overpriced, no one will use it, because it costs too much for its benefits and they would rather trade it for something more useful. If it's underpriced, everyone will, and it's too good. Overpricing tends to be more common than underpricing, at least in the case of WotC's work. The Magic Item Compendium did a pretty good job at rebalancing from what I can see on my first skimming of it, so that's a much better comparative guideline for good items.
law 03-14-07, 02:24 PM	OneWinged4ngel rember I might fight but it does not mean im not listining. Once I get the book I do plan on redoing everything. Plus people telling me to stop doing things is not new to me (but does that mean I did). But you are trying to help I do know that, though you are not helping in how to improve the item itself. You are just saying its usless and no one will use it ever. Then tell me how to nake it better, make it worth the cost, how much it should be droped till it is at the right level of usfulness, ect... Thats more of a help to me and over time will help every one. But sometimes people do come on too blunt (even I do I know it) and skip the more usfull part of the constructive part of helping. Its one this to say it sucks (which yes I get we all suck and doing stuff sometimes) but please try and think of ideas on how to make it better as well as say why its off. Thats all I can say your missing and why im kind of fighting maby a little to much on (which I am sorry for). But I might have alot of sorceres and ther are all over the place and as mostly read whats what for the items that peak my intest anyway so I am a little off from whats out there right now anyway.
OneWinged4ngel 03-14-07, 03:27 PM	OneWinged4ngel rember I might fight but it does not mean im not listining. Once I get the book I do plan on redoing everything. Plus people telling me to stop doing things is not new to me (but does that mean I did). But you are trying to help I do know that, though you are not helping in how to improve the item itself. You are just saying its usless and no one will use it ever. Then tell me how to nake it better, make it worth the cost, how much it should be droped till it is at the right level of usfulness, ect... Thats more of a help to me and over time will help every one. I did give you advice on how to reprice it already, and offered comparisons to other items for you.
law 03-14-07, 04:01 PM	Also by the rules the staff must have a caster level of 8 base as far as I know. Prove that to me and the price will go down to level 3 (the lowest that would be needed). Thats all I need now (simple yes). Tell me a staff n the DMG that has lower then that and as I said the price will change. Since it truly does not matter what the spellcaster level of the staff is price wise. If the user has a better caster level the staff uses that users caster level. So thats why all I need is proff of a lower caster level is ok (since I dont have the DMG with me at this moment I cant look but I will when I get home for priceing and looking at the staffs themselves). Also the first thing I read on that first post of your came out to your item suck and so I tooned everything after that out sorry.
mightyix 03-14-07, 06:03 PM	The staff is underpowered as it is currently described. The basic buff spells are going to be reduced in effectiveness by items at the character level that the staff will be available at. HOWEVER, if I'm remembering correctly there are spells in the spell compendium that provide a higher stat bonus (+6 or more) as well as an additional effect at a slightly higher level. There are also spells like "bite of the wererat", "bite of the xxxx" that have a beast association and provide some interesting benefits above just a stat buff, but provide that as well. I'd take a look at some of the other buff spells out there and see what you can come up with and revisit the item that way.
law 03-14-07, 10:02 PM	mightyix that is an idea. I was going to make a staff that used the Bite Of spells I could chang it to that. Also I just checked the DMG OneWinged4ngel theres a rule that staff cant have below an 8th caster level. See page 287 Creating staffs last sentence of the second paragaph. Its in the rules so thats why I said prive it the a staff has below an 8th caster level to me. Im working with thr rules. But it does not stop the staff as it is now from being weak. So within the next few days ill be changing it over to mightyix idea there. It fits the idea of the staff but the spells also add more flaer to it at it does fit a shifter wizard.
OneWinged4ngel 03-14-07, 10:33 PM	Also I just checked the DMG OneWinged4ngel theres a rule that staff cant have below an 8th caster level. That may be true, but then that's all the more reason this is a busted concept if you adhere to the rules *GUIDELINES* (that term cannot be stressed enough. If you don't believe me, WotC says so themselves on numerous occasions and have a tendency to ignore it themselves) strictly. You're paying a ton for spells that *don't benefit from being in a staff.* You have to consider actual usefulness.
law 03-14-07, 10:36 PM	Thats why ill be making the change. Though I have a few other things to do before I do said change (school work and such). But ill have all of next week to give all my magic items a good scrubing (or updating) wth the help of the magic item compendion if can get it.
Dragom 03-14-07, 11:21 PM	Yes, with staves you kind of need "growing spells" that improve signifigantly with level or rely on saving throws.
OneWinged4ngel 03-15-07, 03:16 AM	Yes, with staves you kind of need "growing spells" that improve signifigantly with level or rely on saving throws. Yep.
mightyix 03-15-07, 03:32 PM	I just finished reading Magic Item Compendium last night and it makes a very specific point about magic item creation: There is no perfect formula. You need to balance the price of an item against the things that you KNOW that a player will be buying. Essentially, outside of fixed bonus costs, every price guideline is flexible. You could still keep this staff the way it is, but you could drop the price significantly to reflect the limited use nature of the item. Pricing it a bit more than 50 scrolls of each spell (to reflect the small gain from increased spell duration) would actually make sense now, and has official support for pricing it that way. Bump the price a little bit more and give it a 'speak with animals 3x/day' and it suddenly becomes a true utility item at a reasonable cost.
aelryinth 03-15-07, 06:39 PM	To be utterly honest, I'd price the ability to cast any of the normal Stat buffs as a single Third level spell, which is about the 'versatility' I'd expect of them. A nicer touch would be to allow the wielder to use the Extend feat through the staff at no casting cost for these spells. If you do this, simply up the price to that of a single 5th level spell in the staff. Then go from there. ===Aelryinth
law 03-15-07, 09:42 PM	Given that I have the magic item compendium ill be updateing my prices and the effects of the items to increase how well they work. So over the next ten or so weeks there will be a boddied item with what ever I post. This will be the updated/reformated magic item out of the ones that I have dont so far.