Crucible's Legacy [Archive] - Wizards Community

Crucible's Legacy [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Edymnion
11-05-07, 09:44 PM I've got Crucible (my WF Paladin of the Silver Flame) in a new game that seems to be going quite well so far. So, its got me thinking about how the character could grow. Its already pretty much set that he's going to become an Exorcist of the Silver Flame.

An idea that struck me, however, from reading the other legacy item thread, is that he's a perfect character to found a Legacy item. At first, I was thinking about if composite armor could even become a Legacy item, since by definition it couldn't be passed on to anyone else. I toyed with the idea of maybe part of the legacy transition would be changing the recipient WF's body feat into Crucible's custom body, but it sounds like a lot more trouble than it's worth.

So, I started thinking about other things. His bastard sword or his large shield jump out as candidates, but those just didn't seem to be integral enough to the character to really qualify. Then it hit me. Crucible covered his ghulra with a flametouched iron holy symbol of the Silver Flame, by having it permanently hot riveted to his head.

Now *THAT* is a great basis for a Legacy item, and even provides it's own Least Legacy ritual, to rivet the symbol in place yourself (which would pretty much limit it to Warforged only, unless the character is just plain crazy).

The question is, what kind of powers would such an item grant?
Standard things for a holy symbol wouldn't really apply to Crucible, as he's much more of a martial paladin than a mystical one.

I can think of several things that would be cool for whoever picks the item up next, but wouldn't make much sense for Crucible himself. I really like the idea of making the symbol sentient, to basically act like a lesser Torque of Preservation. Have Crucible's soul stored in the item after his death, to act as a guide and advisor to the next person to take up his mantle. While cool for the next guy, it doesn't really help (or even make sense) for him to have a sentient holy symbol that holds a copy of himself while he's still alive. Even if it did, it would never come into play, since the decisions the symbol makes would mirror the decisions the character makes. Which means levels of abilities that would give no benefit to Crucible, but would still carry penalties.

I'd like to give it defensive powers, but most of them are for armor that wouldn't be suitable (like adding plusses to armor). Maybe boosts to turn undead so that he could rival a cleric's turning ability?

I'm looking for good theme ideas here.
Amaril
11-06-07, 12:09 AM I have some ideas, but I'm too tired to elaborate. I'll repost tomorrow when I have a clearer head.
AllWillFall2Me
11-06-07, 12:44 AM Well, one of the important things is, what does he do?
I mean, if he fights a lot of demons, that'll lead to an entirely different set of powers than if he fights devils. Of course, neither is very likely in Eberron, so we're left with lesser choices.

One idea I had, was the following ability:
Law's Sight: Years spent bringing Justice and Law in a land of lies and shadows made Crucible adept at recognizing deceit, and his perception is granted to those who follow in his footsteps. The bearer gains Recognize Impostor as a bonus feat.
If he already possessed this feat, his perceptive strength is augmented, granting him an additional +5 to such checks in cases where the opposing roll is augmented by magic.

This could scale even more, like, if he had 15 ranks in spot, he could benefit from True Seeing once a day, and 15 ranks in Sense Motive would give him Zone of Truth.

Also, the item could allow multiclassing with paladin and the main class of whoever dons it. (Or Knight Training to Crucible)
RedRider
11-06-07, 02:55 PM Perhaps the ability to convert turn attempts into combat bonuses or weapon enhancements?

Or, as a low level ability, a My Light effect projected from the symbol?
Amaril
11-06-07, 03:52 PM How about something simple like resistance bonuses or ability score bonuses. Those are available directly in the Menu options in Weapons of Legacy.
Edymnion
11-06-07, 06:06 PM Yeah, some Wisdom and Charisma boosts would be quite useful, but I'm seeing those as more of filler abilities than anything else.

I'm also thinking of giving a few spells, problem is I can't remember the name of the spell I'm thinking of in particular. It wreathed the character in flames, causing damage to anyone that hit them with an unarmed attack, and adding fire damage to the character's unarmed attacks.
Amaril
11-06-07, 09:32 PM Yeah, some Wisdom and Charisma boosts would be quite useful, but I'm seeing those as more of filler abilities than anything else.

Not if you pick some of the higher level menu items. ;)

What if you designed it similarly to Hammer of Witches in WoL?
Edymnion
11-07-07, 07:38 PM Not if you pick some of the higher level menu items. ;)

What if you designed it similarly to Hammer of Witches in WoL?I looked at that one, and I can't say I'm a fan. I see the basis of the character as a walking test. Either you can be redeemed, or you cannot, and he sees himself as the test. Hence the name. He is the crucible, the device through which the flame burns away impurities, leaving only pure metal behind. Either you've got the metal in you, or you're pure waste. Either way, the flame will tell, and Crucible is going to be the one that puts you to the test.

A constant ability to detect lies would be good, but he's already going to get Detect Thoughts at will from Exorcist of the Silver Flame.

Maybe a permanent Circle Against Evil spell effect?
Extra smites?
Something to increase the effective level of his Turn Undead attempts (so that he can match a Cleric in turning)?
Maybe See Invisible at will (following the "No evil can hide from him" theme).
The ability to use Banishment?
DragoonDarkfire
11-08-07, 09:50 PM Try modeling his Legacy abilities after what he DOES. That's what I do anyway.

If Crucible slays a Red Dragon by ramming his Symbol-encrusted head into the dragon then he should gain a Fire Resistance or a +4 bonus against dragons.

If Crucible holds his head up against a Rakshasa launching lightning bolts down on his head then he should gain electricity powers!

Don't just give him "Generic Paladin Powers List A-F." show some creativity!
Edymnion
11-10-07, 07:20 PM Try modeling his Legacy abilities after what he DOES. That's what I do anyway.Thats one way to do it, but the problem there is that you essentially get a bunch of incongruous abilities that have little or nothing to do with each other, that as a whole make no sense. I prefer to have my Legacy items fit a theme that goes all the way through, instead of being just random collections of abilities.

And to that end, I am trying to model the item around what he does, but what he does as a whole character, not individual fights. I prefer to have a roadmap of where I want the item to go, and then work with the DM to set up something that roughly matches those conditions. Like if I get Banishment as one of the abilities, it is a flametouched iron holy symbol which boosts his turning level, so I'd tell the Dm "Yeah, I'm going to try to set the next stage of the legacy item at lvl X. Its going to give him Banishment as an ability, a +2 to his turning level, and the ability to tell when a creature is not native to this realm, so can we have a nice big fight against stuff I can turn?"
Lord Psynister
05-03-08, 11:06 PM What have you come up with so far, Edy?
Rageofthemodrons101
05-04-08, 05:59 PM Hmm. How about an armblade that does awesome damage against evil outsider/demons?
Edymnion
05-04-08, 07:59 PM What have you come up with so far, Edy?Um, I didn't even remember making this thread until I read it again. I saw the threat name on the main list and went "Wait, who's making stuff for my character now?".
ChaoticGood
05-05-08, 02:47 AM 'm also thinking of giving a few spells, problem is I can't remember the name of the spell I'm thinking of in particular. It wreathed the character in flames, causing damage to anyone that hit them with an unarmed attack, and adding fire damage to the character's unarmed attacks.

Are you thinking of The Furnace Within from Magic of Eberron?

I love that spell, especially for a Warforged Cleric. :mage:

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Edymnion 11-05-07, 09:44 PM	I've got Crucible (my WF Paladin of the Silver Flame) in a new game that seems to be going quite well so far. So, its got me thinking about how the character could grow. Its already pretty much set that he's going to become an Exorcist of the Silver Flame. An idea that struck me, however, from reading the other legacy item thread, is that he's a perfect character to found a Legacy item. At first, I was thinking about if composite armor could even become a Legacy item, since by definition it couldn't be passed on to anyone else. I toyed with the idea of maybe part of the legacy transition would be changing the recipient WF's body feat into Crucible's custom body, but it sounds like a lot more trouble than it's worth. So, I started thinking about other things. His bastard sword or his large shield jump out as candidates, but those just didn't seem to be integral enough to the character to really qualify. Then it hit me. Crucible covered his ghulra with a flametouched iron holy symbol of the Silver Flame, by having it permanently hot riveted to his head. Now THAT is a great basis for a Legacy item, and even provides it's own Least Legacy ritual, to rivet the symbol in place yourself (which would pretty much limit it to Warforged only, unless the character is just plain crazy). The question is, what kind of powers would such an item grant? Standard things for a holy symbol wouldn't really apply to Crucible, as he's much more of a martial paladin than a mystical one. I can think of several things that would be cool for whoever picks the item up next, but wouldn't make much sense for Crucible himself. I really like the idea of making the symbol sentient, to basically act like a lesser Torque of Preservation. Have Crucible's soul stored in the item after his death, to act as a guide and advisor to the next person to take up his mantle. While cool for the next guy, it doesn't really help (or even make sense) for him to have a sentient holy symbol that holds a copy of himself while he's still alive. Even if it did, it would never come into play, since the decisions the symbol makes would mirror the decisions the character makes. Which means levels of abilities that would give no benefit to Crucible, but would still carry penalties. I'd like to give it defensive powers, but most of them are for armor that wouldn't be suitable (like adding plusses to armor). Maybe boosts to turn undead so that he could rival a cleric's turning ability? I'm looking for good theme ideas here.
Amaril 11-06-07, 12:09 AM	I have some ideas, but I'm too tired to elaborate. I'll repost tomorrow when I have a clearer head.
AllWillFall2Me 11-06-07, 12:44 AM	Well, one of the important things is, what does he do? I mean, if he fights a lot of demons, that'll lead to an entirely different set of powers than if he fights devils. Of course, neither is very likely in Eberron, so we're left with lesser choices. One idea I had, was the following ability: Law's Sight: Years spent bringing Justice and Law in a land of lies and shadows made Crucible adept at recognizing deceit, and his perception is granted to those who follow in his footsteps. The bearer gains Recognize Impostor as a bonus feat. If he already possessed this feat, his perceptive strength is augmented, granting him an additional +5 to such checks in cases where the opposing roll is augmented by magic. This could scale even more, like, if he had 15 ranks in spot, he could benefit from True Seeing once a day, and 15 ranks in Sense Motive would give him Zone of Truth. Also, the item could allow multiclassing with paladin and the main class of whoever dons it. (Or Knight Training to Crucible)
RedRider 11-06-07, 02:55 PM	Perhaps the ability to convert turn attempts into combat bonuses or weapon enhancements? Or, as a low level ability, a My Light effect projected from the symbol?
Amaril 11-06-07, 03:52 PM	How about something simple like resistance bonuses or ability score bonuses. Those are available directly in the Menu options in Weapons of Legacy.
Edymnion 11-06-07, 06:06 PM	Yeah, some Wisdom and Charisma boosts would be quite useful, but I'm seeing those as more of filler abilities than anything else. I'm also thinking of giving a few spells, problem is I can't remember the name of the spell I'm thinking of in particular. It wreathed the character in flames, causing damage to anyone that hit them with an unarmed attack, and adding fire damage to the character's unarmed attacks.
Amaril 11-06-07, 09:32 PM	Yeah, some Wisdom and Charisma boosts would be quite useful, but I'm seeing those as more of filler abilities than anything else. Not if you pick some of the higher level menu items. ;) What if you designed it similarly to Hammer of Witches in WoL?
Edymnion 11-07-07, 07:38 PM	Not if you pick some of the higher level menu items. ;) What if you designed it similarly to Hammer of Witches in WoL?I looked at that one, and I can't say I'm a fan. I see the basis of the character as a walking test. Either you can be redeemed, or you cannot, and he sees himself as the test. Hence the name. He is the crucible, the device through which the flame burns away impurities, leaving only pure metal behind. Either you've got the metal in you, or you're pure waste. Either way, the flame will tell, and Crucible is going to be the one that puts you to the test. A constant ability to detect lies would be good, but he's already going to get Detect Thoughts at will from Exorcist of the Silver Flame. Maybe a permanent Circle Against Evil spell effect? Extra smites? Something to increase the effective level of his Turn Undead attempts (so that he can match a Cleric in turning)? Maybe See Invisible at will (following the "No evil can hide from him" theme). The ability to use Banishment?
DragoonDarkfire 11-08-07, 09:50 PM	Try modeling his Legacy abilities after what he DOES. That's what I do anyway. If Crucible slays a Red Dragon by ramming his Symbol-encrusted head into the dragon then he should gain a Fire Resistance or a +4 bonus against dragons. If Crucible holds his head up against a Rakshasa launching lightning bolts down on his head then he should gain electricity powers! Don't just give him "Generic Paladin Powers List A-F." show some creativity!
Edymnion 11-10-07, 07:20 PM	Try modeling his Legacy abilities after what he DOES. That's what I do anyway.Thats one way to do it, but the problem there is that you essentially get a bunch of incongruous abilities that have little or nothing to do with each other, that as a whole make no sense. I prefer to have my Legacy items fit a theme that goes all the way through, instead of being just random collections of abilities. And to that end, I am trying to model the item around what he does, but what he does as a whole character, not individual fights. I prefer to have a roadmap of where I want the item to go, and then work with the DM to set up something that roughly matches those conditions. Like if I get Banishment as one of the abilities, it is a flametouched iron holy symbol which boosts his turning level, so I'd tell the Dm "Yeah, I'm going to try to set the next stage of the legacy item at lvl X. Its going to give him Banishment as an ability, a +2 to his turning level, and the ability to tell when a creature is not native to this realm, so can we have a nice big fight against stuff I can turn?"
Lord Psynister 05-03-08, 11:06 PM	What have you come up with so far, Edy?
Rageofthemodrons101 05-04-08, 05:59 PM	Hmm. How about an armblade that does awesome damage against evil outsider/demons?
Edymnion 05-04-08, 07:59 PM	What have you come up with so far, Edy?Um, I didn't even remember making this thread until I read it again. I saw the threat name on the main list and went "Wait, who's making stuff for my character now?".
ChaoticGood 05-05-08, 02:47 AM	'm also thinking of giving a few spells, problem is I can't remember the name of the spell I'm thinking of in particular. It wreathed the character in flames, causing damage to anyone that hit them with an unarmed attack, and adding fire damage to the character's unarmed attacks. Are you thinking of The Furnace Within from Magic of Eberron? I love that spell, especially for a Warforged Cleric. :mage: