Demons and Devils in Eberron( a work in progress) [Archive] - Wizards Community

Demons and Devils in Eberron( a work in progress) [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
deathbane
09-20-07, 11:47 AM Work in progress

Guidelines:

The words demons in Eberron refers to Demons and Devils.

The Lords of Dust refers to a group of fiends that exist in Eberron. They are more like the city-states of Greece. They belong to the same group and try to stay out of each other's way, but don't cooperate without getting something in return. The reason they try to stop from competing is that if they had been more cooperative before they would not have lost to the dragons.

The Demon Lords and Lords of the Nine exist, but some of them are in the other planes and may or may not care about what is going on in the material world(at the DM's discretion). The Rajahs are the ones that are imprisoned in Eberron.

I put the stuff below in quotes because the idea mostly came from other posters

Bel makes absolute perfect sense as a general of Shavarath. Among the Lords of the Nine in the core cosmology, he is the most concerned with the Blood War - especially since his layer, Avernus, is a regular battleground in that conflict. He could perhaps be used as the supreme commander of the diabolical forces in Shavarath, with the Dark Eight (unique pit fiend generals of the diabolical legions) serving under him.

Dispater could find an interesting home in Daanvi as a dark reflection of the rigid, unforgiving rule of Law.

Mammon will most likely have his own realm in Khyber trapped in Reidra, and his greed may part of be the reason the demons lost the part if he makes it to the final cut. As of now he is a Raja

Fierna and Belial get to exist in Fierna(how convenient). I don't know yet if they will be in charge or not or have competition.

Levistus gets to be a Rajah trapped under Frostfell

Glasya is in Shavarath overseeing espionage and sabotage against the demons and the archons, and she is also still the daughter of Asmodeus who placed her on that plane as a spy while he plans to take the material plane one day.

Baalzebul was a powerful solar in Shavarath, but he could not be happy with his station. He was stripped of most of his powers and sent to the Material plane, however he was not stripped of his cunning and Asmodeus gave him great power. Later he conspired with Mammon to take over, but Mammon realized the plan would not work, and turned him in. Asmodeus figured he was more useful alive than dead, and punished him by taking away his humanoid form. He is trapped beneath the Mror Holds

Mephistopheles is a general in Shavarath

Asmodeus, knows about the fiends on this world and the outer planes, and is scheming to use them to eventually take over all planes, but his concern is that they may turn on him, and he is also aware that if he digs his claws to deep into another plane it may only get him additional resistance, and he already has enough trouble dealing with dragons and adventurers. As of now he has his own demiplane in Khyber. He is not trapped, and not many people know of him, but he knows he does not have the power to take over so he is slowly building his power base while watching for potentials rivals like the quori.

Demon Lords

Demogorgon is a Rajah that is trapped. One head wants to release the other demon lords one by one just to cause chaos across all planes, even though he knows he would have to fight them in the end, and the other wants to establish his power first so there are no rebellions. He would probably go to Shavarath to try to end that war which might get him a few allies.

Grazzt is also trapped, but it is rumored that he got free once, and many plane-touched and half-fiends(even though there are not many) are his decendants.

Jubilex is from Khyber but is currently in Xoriat, and has considerable power there.

Orcus took over Dolurrh while the other fiends were fighting dragons, but by the time he was about to return the war was finished so now he bides his time there while he cults are being created that worship him on Eberron. He occasionally gives those with potential power and/or knowledge in order to speed things along. He never stays in Eberron long, because he does not want to end up like the other demons.

Dagon is from Xoriat, but has traveled to other planes, mostly Kythri to increase his influence there.

Fraz-Urb'luu is a Raja

Kostchtchie is best placed in Shavarath due to his love of combat

Oxob-OB is from Xoriat

Pale Night is in Kythri and is rumored by some even, demons to be the creator of certain rajahs, lesser demons,and fiends that are in many planes.

Pazuzu is a rajah that was trapped with the others

Yeenoghnu was formed from Khyber, but happen to be in Shavarath when the others were trapped. He plans to bring his forces to Eberron as soon as he winns the war over in Shavarath.

Zuggtmoy is has been trying to draw power from Lamannia and Thelanis. Rumor has it that she was once a Fey of god-like status that was corrupted by some force from Xoriat and/or Kythri

I did not want to type on my PC just to have to copy it here so all editing will be done here.
androkguz
09-29-07, 11:50 AM Good, now the fun thing is to create paragons for the 13 planes!

I've got one! I've got one!

Thraxshkfagfariel is an ancient draconic/elemental being from Fernia that lives in the deepest part of the sea of magma. He is one of the most misterious creatures there and was the one who gave the balors the power to make their army of chaos to counter the rise of the Pit Fiends' empire, but if he's loyal to some it's just to the elemental lords of the plane. He breaths a fire so intense that it can desintegrate a fire elemental.
Altar_Boy
09-29-07, 07:30 PM My :twocents:

1) Could you put Asmodeus in Dolurrh? It would be the perfect place for the ultimate corrupter of souls: noshing on them as they come freshly squeezed from the Material plane. :devil:

2) Pazuzu could hang out in Syrannia. Being a vast plane of air, I imagine there are demenses the Angels rarely patrol.

3) I find Demogorgon's realm works well as part of Lammania. The raging oceans and demon-teeming jungles really evoke both Lammania and Demogorgon's nature(s).

4) In my homebrew, Graz'zt's realm breaches three planes: Dolurrh, Shavrath, and Mabar. His holding of this trade route makes him infinitely powerful and wealthy.
deathbane
09-30-07, 03:08 PM I did not forget about this thread, but I am running a campaign also, and time is limited. The reason Asmodeus is on Eberron is because that is where the souls are that can be manipulated. The ones that he does not get to are the ones that get to go to Dolurrh.

The only issue I am having trouble deciding is whether I should still have demons try to take souls also, or go by the 4th edition version that don't care about souls. The problem is saying they just destroy things gives them no depth.
androkguz
10-05-07, 11:45 PM Hey people, I've just found an internet upgrade of the Fiendish Codex II where they place the aspects of each of the nine archdevils in Eberron. Almost as if they were creatures.

Most belong to Shavarath, by the way.
deathbane
10-05-07, 11:56 PM Send me the link. The less work I have to do the better.
18DELTA
10-08-07, 12:31 AM Hey people, I've just found an internet upgrade of the Fiendish Codex II where they place the aspects of each of the nine archdevils in Eberron. Almost as if they were creatures.

Most belong to Shavarath, by the way.
Yes could you please post that link. I would like to see it. Trying to learn more about Eberron.;)
androkguz
10-08-07, 02:21 PM here...
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070216a

I'm sorry I kept you waiting.

...can we create new paragons now or I'm alone in that idea?
deathbane
10-08-07, 04:27 PM Does Paragons equal new fiend lords? If so we will have to decide on the rules, such as power levels. Will we be making them together or each person make their own, to be critiqued by the others.
I have not made the change on the first post as of now, but in one of the fiendish books it said the demon/devil lords in the main books were aspects so I will have the lesser aspects as availible to cults and other reasons, and the more powerful aspects for when that particular demon lord is about to be released or his prison(for lack of a better word) has been weakened enough so that he may escape soon. There may be other reasons to send one out, but knowing that they draw attention, it will only be to gain benefits of a great magnitude. It is like of like when you ask Lloth for a Zin-Carla(not really comparable to an aspect) if you get one you better succeed.
18DELTA
10-09-07, 02:49 AM here...
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070216a

I'm sorry I kept you waiting.

...can we create new paragons now or I'm alone in that idea?
Thanks!:tiphat: :detect: :mymy: :ayyyy!: :D
androkguz
10-09-07, 12:37 PM Does Paragons equal new fiend lords? If so we will have to decide on the rules, such as power levels. Will we be making them together or each person make their own, to be critiqued by the others.

No, not necesarily demos and devils. I'm talking about Raziel (an archon from the seven mounting heavens of celestia) and Juiblex (a demon from the Abyss). Those were paragons. Outsiders of great power that are usually unique.
There are some of them in Eberron already: the Daelkyr lords match this idea perfectly for Xoriat paragons, as well as the rahajs match the idea for Khyber evil paragons with the greater Couatls as the good eberron/siberys paragons (althought, the rajahs are closer to gods...)
We could create Risian outsiders that are unique and powerful.

The rules would be: you invent one, people critize. If enought people like them, we talk about it a bit more. What do you think? (maybe we should go plane by plane)
deathbane
10-09-07, 04:40 PM No, not necesarily demos and devils. I'm talking about Raziel (an archon from the seven mounting heavens of celestia) and Juiblex (a demon from the Abyss). Those were paragons. Outsiders of great power that are usually unique.
There are some of them in Eberron already: the Daelkyr lords match this idea perfectly for Xoriat paragons, as well as the rahajs match the idea for Khyber evil paragons with the greater Couatls as the good eberron/siberys paragons (althought, the rajahs are closer to gods...)
We could create Risian outsiders that are unique and powerful.

The rules would be: you invent one, people critize. If enought people like them, we talk about it a bit more. What do you think? (maybe we should go plane by plane)

I am with replacing certain fiends. I never liked Jubi anyway. The Daelkyr seems to specialize in having unique preferences in their twisting of nature. I know one of them likes oozes. We could give each on a special power to emphasize what he likes, and since they are pre-made all we have to do is add on to them. They don't have to be the same CR, but I think the highest and lowest should not be more than 2 CR apart. I was going to use some of the demons/devils that might be native to Eberron as Rajahs, and if I did not have enough then I would add a few more. The greater couatls could be larger and on scale with dragons. It could be that only the lesser couatls gave thier lives, and the more powerful ones are still alive, but don't mettle in the world's affair directly except in cases like the age of demons where something must be done.
Place by plane would be ok.
androkguz
10-12-07, 03:18 PM Good! I'm voting on starting with.... [rolls a d14]

Risia! Ok, I'll open the post tomorrow unless I get more votes on another plane. :)
deathbane
12-18-07, 12:20 AM I have realized some of the Demons and Devils are redundant after reading another thread that ask people which demon/devil lord they hate the most. I am probably going to keep some of the demons and devils that are interesting, and make some yugoloths(demon lord scale) so the NE category can get some love. I am not DMing so I have time to do this now, plus I have to get it done since the info will be important for my next campaign.
AvonRekaes
12-24-07, 01:12 PM Just my two cents, but no planar paragon should be on the same level as a Rakshasa Rajah. The Overlords were directly created by Khyber, an Overdeity with more power than anything in the setting. The Overlords are more on par with deities. If we were to rank paragons, it would be something like CR 10-outsiders < CR 10+ outsiders < Paragon aspects < Paragons < Overlords.
So stuff like Pale Night, as a paragon, being the creator of some Rajahs seems rather off to me, though her creating other demonic paragons is just fine.
I will note that I think if we are going to incorporate some of the Great Wheel paragons into Eberron, some of them might do with being upgraded to Rajah status, namely Pale Night herself, and Asmodeus.
In their respective heirchies, they are considered the most powerful, influential, or mysterious. I.E. even in the Great Wheel, they are set apart from others of their kind. Asmodeus is even hinted at being the aspect of an overdeity himself (The Serpent), while Pale Night is describe as being the mother of all demon kind. Such beings deserve to be upgraded. (Just like Tiamat was "demoted" to Rajah status to actually give her more influence in the world than a remote deity would have.)
There's already some gender confusion with Khyber, some myths saying that Khyber is male, others female, and some male and female in the same myth. Perhaps Asmodeus is Khyber's male aspect, and Pale Night is Khyber's female aspect. In that sense, Pale Night might indeed be the mother of several other Rajahs.
Other than those two, however, I don't think any other paragons deserve to be upgraded to Rajah status. What did Levistus do, really, to deserve it? He's known for killing Asmodeus's consort, and then getting caught. He's no where near the same level of power as Asmodeus.
deathbane
12-24-07, 05:41 PM Just my two cents, but no planar paragon should be on the same level as a Rakshasa Rajah. The Overlords were directly created by Khyber, an Overdeity with more power than anything in the setting. The Overlords are more on par with deities. If we were to rank paragons, it would be something like CR 10-outsiders < CR 10+ outsiders < Paragon aspects < Paragons < Overlords.
So stuff like Pale Night, as a paragon, being the creator of some Rajahs seems rather off to me, though her creating other demonic paragons is just fine.
I will note that I think if we are going to incorporate some of the Great Wheel paragons into Eberron, some of them might do with being upgraded to Rajah status, namely Pale Night herself, and Asmodeus.
In their respective heirchies, they are considered the most powerful, influential, or mysterious. I.E. even in the Great Wheel, they are set apart from others of their kind. Asmodeus is even hinted at being the aspect of an overdeity himself (The Serpent), while Pale Night is describe as being the mother of all demon kind. Such beings deserve to be upgraded. (Just like Tiamat was "demoted" to Rajah status to actually give her more influence in the world than a remote deity would have.)
There's already some gender confusion with Khyber, some myths saying that Khyber is male, others female, and some male and female in the same myth. Perhaps Asmodeus is Khyber's male aspect, and Pale Night is Khyber's female aspect. In that sense, Pale Night might indeed be the mother of several other Rajahs.
Other than those two, however, I don't think any other paragons deserve to be upgraded to Rajah status. What did Levistus do, really, to deserve it? He's known for killing Asmodeus's consort, and then getting caught. He's no where near the same level of power as Asmodeus.

I use the slightly modified dicefreak stats for the devil real versions. The BoVD, and the FCII are lesser versions(aspects of them). I just have not decided whether or not to say Asmodeus is an extremely powerful being being, or an avatar of lawful evil itself. I also think that if Asmodeus is on that level, then there should be a demon lord to match him.
I like Grazzt, and Orcus better than Demogorgon, but a two headed monster that competes with itself, and still has to fend off the other demons is pretty chaotic. I will probably have to design my own NE fiends, since they don't get any love from anyone else.
I like the story of him falling from grace, but he could also pass as one of the first beings to come into existence.
I do appreciate the input and any further suggestions are welcome.
deathbane
12-25-07, 08:39 PM The Abyss is where all chaotic fiends come from and it has a link to all the other Eberron planes. That is how they were able to reach the other planes. The Rajahs that are chaotic really came from underground entrances to the Abyss, but to most creatures it appears they came from the underground of Eberron(Khyber).
Most of the Rajahs are trapped demons who were to stubborn to flee.
As for the power of the demons. One of them will cause havoc throughout the Eberron, two may wipe out life as it is known, and three spell certain defeat without intervention from outside sources such as Shavarath.
During the age of demons they spent as much time fighting each other as they did the dragons, and that is why the dragons were able to defeat them.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
deathbane 09-20-07, 11:47 AM	Work in progress Guidelines: The words demons in Eberron refers to Demons and Devils. The Lords of Dust refers to a group of fiends that exist in Eberron. They are more like the city-states of Greece. They belong to the same group and try to stay out of each other's way, but don't cooperate without getting something in return. The reason they try to stop from competing is that if they had been more cooperative before they would not have lost to the dragons. The Demon Lords and Lords of the Nine exist, but some of them are in the other planes and may or may not care about what is going on in the material world(at the DM's discretion). The Rajahs are the ones that are imprisoned in Eberron. I put the stuff below in quotes because the idea mostly came from other posters Bel makes absolute perfect sense as a general of Shavarath. Among the Lords of the Nine in the core cosmology, he is the most concerned with the Blood War - especially since his layer, Avernus, is a regular battleground in that conflict. He could perhaps be used as the supreme commander of the diabolical forces in Shavarath, with the Dark Eight (unique pit fiend generals of the diabolical legions) serving under him. Dispater could find an interesting home in Daanvi as a dark reflection of the rigid, unforgiving rule of Law. Mammon will most likely have his own realm in Khyber trapped in Reidra, and his greed may part of be the reason the demons lost the part if he makes it to the final cut. As of now he is a Raja Fierna and Belial get to exist in Fierna(how convenient). I don't know yet if they will be in charge or not or have competition. Levistus gets to be a Rajah trapped under Frostfell Glasya is in Shavarath overseeing espionage and sabotage against the demons and the archons, and she is also still the daughter of Asmodeus who placed her on that plane as a spy while he plans to take the material plane one day. Baalzebul was a powerful solar in Shavarath, but he could not be happy with his station. He was stripped of most of his powers and sent to the Material plane, however he was not stripped of his cunning and Asmodeus gave him great power. Later he conspired with Mammon to take over, but Mammon realized the plan would not work, and turned him in. Asmodeus figured he was more useful alive than dead, and punished him by taking away his humanoid form. He is trapped beneath the Mror Holds Mephistopheles is a general in Shavarath Asmodeus, knows about the fiends on this world and the outer planes, and is scheming to use them to eventually take over all planes, but his concern is that they may turn on him, and he is also aware that if he digs his claws to deep into another plane it may only get him additional resistance, and he already has enough trouble dealing with dragons and adventurers. As of now he has his own demiplane in Khyber. He is not trapped, and not many people know of him, but he knows he does not have the power to take over so he is slowly building his power base while watching for potentials rivals like the quori. Demon Lords Demogorgon is a Rajah that is trapped. One head wants to release the other demon lords one by one just to cause chaos across all planes, even though he knows he would have to fight them in the end, and the other wants to establish his power first so there are no rebellions. He would probably go to Shavarath to try to end that war which might get him a few allies. Grazzt is also trapped, but it is rumored that he got free once, and many plane-touched and half-fiends(even though there are not many) are his decendants. Jubilex is from Khyber but is currently in Xoriat, and has considerable power there. Orcus took over Dolurrh while the other fiends were fighting dragons, but by the time he was about to return the war was finished so now he bides his time there while he cults are being created that worship him on Eberron. He occasionally gives those with potential power and/or knowledge in order to speed things along. He never stays in Eberron long, because he does not want to end up like the other demons. Dagon is from Xoriat, but has traveled to other planes, mostly Kythri to increase his influence there. Fraz-Urb'luu is a Raja Kostchtchie is best placed in Shavarath due to his love of combat Oxob-OB is from Xoriat Pale Night is in Kythri and is rumored by some even, demons to be the creator of certain rajahs, lesser demons,and fiends that are in many planes. Pazuzu is a rajah that was trapped with the others Yeenoghnu was formed from Khyber, but happen to be in Shavarath when the others were trapped. He plans to bring his forces to Eberron as soon as he winns the war over in Shavarath. Zuggtmoy is has been trying to draw power from Lamannia and Thelanis. Rumor has it that she was once a Fey of god-like status that was corrupted by some force from Xoriat and/or Kythri I did not want to type on my PC just to have to copy it here so all editing will be done here.
androkguz 09-29-07, 11:50 AM	Good, now the fun thing is to create paragons for the 13 planes! I've got one! I've got one! Thraxshkfagfariel is an ancient draconic/elemental being from Fernia that lives in the deepest part of the sea of magma. He is one of the most misterious creatures there and was the one who gave the balors the power to make their army of chaos to counter the rise of the Pit Fiends' empire, but if he's loyal to some it's just to the elemental lords of the plane. He breaths a fire so intense that it can desintegrate a fire elemental.
Altar_Boy 09-29-07, 07:30 PM	My :twocents: 1) Could you put Asmodeus in Dolurrh? It would be the perfect place for the ultimate corrupter of souls: noshing on them as they come freshly squeezed from the Material plane. :devil: 2) Pazuzu could hang out in Syrannia. Being a vast plane of air, I imagine there are demenses the Angels rarely patrol. 3) I find Demogorgon's realm works well as part of Lammania. The raging oceans and demon-teeming jungles really evoke both Lammania and Demogorgon's nature(s). 4) In my homebrew, Graz'zt's realm breaches three planes: Dolurrh, Shavrath, and Mabar. His holding of this trade route makes him infinitely powerful and wealthy.
deathbane 09-30-07, 03:08 PM	I did not forget about this thread, but I am running a campaign also, and time is limited. The reason Asmodeus is on Eberron is because that is where the souls are that can be manipulated. The ones that he does not get to are the ones that get to go to Dolurrh. The only issue I am having trouble deciding is whether I should still have demons try to take souls also, or go by the 4th edition version that don't care about souls. The problem is saying they just destroy things gives them no depth.
androkguz 10-05-07, 11:45 PM	Hey people, I've just found an internet upgrade of the Fiendish Codex II where they place the aspects of each of the nine archdevils in Eberron. Almost as if they were creatures. Most belong to Shavarath, by the way.
deathbane 10-05-07, 11:56 PM	Send me the link. The less work I have to do the better.
18DELTA 10-08-07, 12:31 AM	Hey people, I've just found an internet upgrade of the Fiendish Codex II where they place the aspects of each of the nine archdevils in Eberron. Almost as if they were creatures. Most belong to Shavarath, by the way. Yes could you please post that link. I would like to see it. Trying to learn more about Eberron.;)
androkguz 10-08-07, 02:21 PM	here... http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070216a I'm sorry I kept you waiting. ...can we create new paragons now or I'm alone in that idea?
deathbane 10-08-07, 04:27 PM	Does Paragons equal new fiend lords? If so we will have to decide on the rules, such as power levels. Will we be making them together or each person make their own, to be critiqued by the others. I have not made the change on the first post as of now, but in one of the fiendish books it said the demon/devil lords in the main books were aspects so I will have the lesser aspects as availible to cults and other reasons, and the more powerful aspects for when that particular demon lord is about to be released or his prison(for lack of a better word) has been weakened enough so that he may escape soon. There may be other reasons to send one out, but knowing that they draw attention, it will only be to gain benefits of a great magnitude. It is like of like when you ask Lloth for a Zin-Carla(not really comparable to an aspect) if you get one you better succeed.
18DELTA 10-09-07, 02:49 AM	here... http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070216a I'm sorry I kept you waiting. ...can we create new paragons now or I'm alone in that idea? Thanks!:tiphat: :detect: :mymy: :ayyyy!: :D
androkguz 10-09-07, 12:37 PM	Does Paragons equal new fiend lords? If so we will have to decide on the rules, such as power levels. Will we be making them together or each person make their own, to be critiqued by the others. No, not necesarily demos and devils. I'm talking about Raziel (an archon from the seven mounting heavens of celestia) and Juiblex (a demon from the Abyss). Those were paragons. Outsiders of great power that are usually unique. There are some of them in Eberron already: the Daelkyr lords match this idea perfectly for Xoriat paragons, as well as the rahajs match the idea for Khyber evil paragons with the greater Couatls as the good eberron/siberys paragons (althought, the rajahs are closer to gods...) We could create Risian outsiders that are unique and powerful. The rules would be: you invent one, people critize. If enought people like them, we talk about it a bit more. What do you think? (maybe we should go plane by plane)
deathbane 10-09-07, 04:40 PM	No, not necesarily demos and devils. I'm talking about Raziel (an archon from the seven mounting heavens of celestia) and Juiblex (a demon from the Abyss). Those were paragons. Outsiders of great power that are usually unique. There are some of them in Eberron already: the Daelkyr lords match this idea perfectly for Xoriat paragons, as well as the rahajs match the idea for Khyber evil paragons with the greater Couatls as the good eberron/siberys paragons (althought, the rajahs are closer to gods...) We could create Risian outsiders that are unique and powerful. The rules would be: you invent one, people critize. If enought people like them, we talk about it a bit more. What do you think? (maybe we should go plane by plane) I am with replacing certain fiends. I never liked Jubi anyway. The Daelkyr seems to specialize in having unique preferences in their twisting of nature. I know one of them likes oozes. We could give each on a special power to emphasize what he likes, and since they are pre-made all we have to do is add on to them. They don't have to be the same CR, but I think the highest and lowest should not be more than 2 CR apart. I was going to use some of the demons/devils that might be native to Eberron as Rajahs, and if I did not have enough then I would add a few more. The greater couatls could be larger and on scale with dragons. It could be that only the lesser couatls gave thier lives, and the more powerful ones are still alive, but don't mettle in the world's affair directly except in cases like the age of demons where something must be done. Place by plane would be ok.
androkguz 10-12-07, 03:18 PM	Good! I'm voting on starting with.... [rolls a d14] Risia! Ok, I'll open the post tomorrow unless I get more votes on another plane. :)
deathbane 12-18-07, 12:20 AM	I have realized some of the Demons and Devils are redundant after reading another thread that ask people which demon/devil lord they hate the most. I am probably going to keep some of the demons and devils that are interesting, and make some yugoloths(demon lord scale) so the NE category can get some love. I am not DMing so I have time to do this now, plus I have to get it done since the info will be important for my next campaign.
AvonRekaes 12-24-07, 01:12 PM	Just my two cents, but no planar paragon should be on the same level as a Rakshasa Rajah. The Overlords were directly created by Khyber, an Overdeity with more power than anything in the setting. The Overlords are more on par with deities. If we were to rank paragons, it would be something like CR 10-outsiders < CR 10+ outsiders < Paragon aspects < Paragons < Overlords. So stuff like Pale Night, as a paragon, being the creator of some Rajahs seems rather off to me, though her creating other demonic paragons is just fine. I will note that I think if we are going to incorporate some of the Great Wheel paragons into Eberron, some of them might do with being upgraded to Rajah status, namely Pale Night herself, and Asmodeus. In their respective heirchies, they are considered the most powerful, influential, or mysterious. I.E. even in the Great Wheel, they are set apart from others of their kind. Asmodeus is even hinted at being the aspect of an overdeity himself (The Serpent), while Pale Night is describe as being the mother of all demon kind. Such beings deserve to be upgraded. (Just like Tiamat was "demoted" to Rajah status to actually give her more influence in the world than a remote deity would have.) There's already some gender confusion with Khyber, some myths saying that Khyber is male, others female, and some male and female in the same myth. Perhaps Asmodeus is Khyber's male aspect, and Pale Night is Khyber's female aspect. In that sense, Pale Night might indeed be the mother of several other Rajahs. Other than those two, however, I don't think any other paragons deserve to be upgraded to Rajah status. What did Levistus do, really, to deserve it? He's known for killing Asmodeus's consort, and then getting caught. He's no where near the same level of power as Asmodeus.
deathbane 12-24-07, 05:41 PM	Just my two cents, but no planar paragon should be on the same level as a Rakshasa Rajah. The Overlords were directly created by Khyber, an Overdeity with more power than anything in the setting. The Overlords are more on par with deities. If we were to rank paragons, it would be something like CR 10-outsiders < CR 10+ outsiders < Paragon aspects < Paragons < Overlords. So stuff like Pale Night, as a paragon, being the creator of some Rajahs seems rather off to me, though her creating other demonic paragons is just fine. I will note that I think if we are going to incorporate some of the Great Wheel paragons into Eberron, some of them might do with being upgraded to Rajah status, namely Pale Night herself, and Asmodeus. In their respective heirchies, they are considered the most powerful, influential, or mysterious. I.E. even in the Great Wheel, they are set apart from others of their kind. Asmodeus is even hinted at being the aspect of an overdeity himself (The Serpent), while Pale Night is describe as being the mother of all demon kind. Such beings deserve to be upgraded. (Just like Tiamat was "demoted" to Rajah status to actually give her more influence in the world than a remote deity would have.) There's already some gender confusion with Khyber, some myths saying that Khyber is male, others female, and some male and female in the same myth. Perhaps Asmodeus is Khyber's male aspect, and Pale Night is Khyber's female aspect. In that sense, Pale Night might indeed be the mother of several other Rajahs. Other than those two, however, I don't think any other paragons deserve to be upgraded to Rajah status. What did Levistus do, really, to deserve it? He's known for killing Asmodeus's consort, and then getting caught. He's no where near the same level of power as Asmodeus. I use the slightly modified dicefreak stats for the devil real versions. The BoVD, and the FCII are lesser versions(aspects of them). I just have not decided whether or not to say Asmodeus is an extremely powerful being being, or an avatar of lawful evil itself. I also think that if Asmodeus is on that level, then there should be a demon lord to match him. I like Grazzt, and Orcus better than Demogorgon, but a two headed monster that competes with itself, and still has to fend off the other demons is pretty chaotic. I will probably have to design my own NE fiends, since they don't get any love from anyone else. I like the story of him falling from grace, but he could also pass as one of the first beings to come into existence. I do appreciate the input and any further suggestions are welcome.
deathbane 12-25-07, 08:39 PM	The Abyss is where all chaotic fiends come from and it has a link to all the other Eberron planes. That is how they were able to reach the other planes. The Rajahs that are chaotic really came from underground entrances to the Abyss, but to most creatures it appears they came from the underground of Eberron(Khyber). Most of the Rajahs are trapped demons who were to stubborn to flee. As for the power of the demons. One of them will cause havoc throughout the Eberron, two may wipe out life as it is known, and three spell certain defeat without intervention from outside sources such as Shavarath. During the age of demons they spent as much time fighting each other as they did the dragons, and that is why the dragons were able to defeat them.