Dragonmarks and Wands? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Dragonmarks and Wands? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
VanBasken
07-31-07, 03:27 AM I feel a bit dumb for asking, but does a Dragonmark's spell-like ability give you the ability to use the same spell in a spell completion or spell trigger item (such as with wands or scrolls)? I'm sure the rules on this are listed some place very obvious, but I cant for the life of me find them.
DBlizzard
07-31-07, 09:52 AM No. Both items require the spell be on your spell list. Spell-like abilities don't count.

I might consider creating a feat that would allow this.
TiwazTyrsfist
07-31-07, 10:21 AM Yes, just as a warlock who has an invocation that is functionally identical to a spell must still roll UMD to use a wand of that spell, and just as an Artificer, who gets Bull's Strength as an infusion, must roll UMD to use a wand of Bull's Strength, So too, a person with a dragonmark cannot simply activate spell completion/trigger items for the spell their dragonmark duplicates, they must roll UMD if they have the skill, or else they are unable to use the item.
Shady314
08-01-07, 04:25 AM Having said all that official rules stuff though (which is all true), Dragonmarks are weak feats and granting this as a house rule would help make them a little more mechanically useful. Would also help explain the Houses power if any marked person could use a charged item with the appropriate spell. And furthers the mystery of the marks. Just a thought.
TiwazTyrsfist
08-01-07, 10:49 AM I have always house ruled that you could use a dragonmark to cast the spell for the purposes of item creation.

Also, Dragonmarks are only weak (IMO) if you ONLY take the Least mark and ONLY play the mechanical aspects, rather than the social aspects.

Non-housed gaurds should NEVER be surly to someone with a visible mark, particularly a mark of the Sentinel, or a mark of Shadows. One from respect, the other from reasonable fear of sudden death.

Anything 'Official' you do with another dragonmarked house should be easier, because you're a representative of your house. Of coarse, any unofficial business will get much dirtier, but that beside the point.

Anyway, I feel having a dragonmark should have the same effects on social situations as being prince. You aren't in charge yet, you may not even be first in line, but you have the ear of the people in power, and someday, you just may be the one sitting on the throne. And if you remember me, I want to be remembered as the guy who was polite and helpful, not the guy who was incredibly rude and made you wait two hours for no reason. That sort of thing.
Shady314
08-01-07, 04:15 PM Non-housed gaurds should NEVER be surly to someone with a visible mark, particularly a mark of the Sentinel, or a mark of Shadows. One from respect, the other from reasonable fear of sudden death.

Why should a guard fear sudden death from a musician/actor?

Dragonmarks actually get weaker as you go down the feat line but obviously I'm only speaking mechanically. They're obviously very flavorfulbut socially they're still not that useful. You need the Favored in House feat just to get people in your house to do you favors. Having a Mark let's you lord over commoners. PCs can already lord over commoners.
TiwazTyrsfist
08-01-07, 07:08 PM My view is that anyone who's lived in a city for more than a month, and has even the slightest inkling of what goes on in politics, understands that the mark of shadows houses are entertainers the same way that we understand that Tony Soprano ran a waste management company. The same way that John Gotti was a legitimate bussinessman.

That's just my opinion, mind you.
Belabras
08-02-07, 03:51 AM My view is that anyone who's lived in a city for more than a month, and has even the slightest inkling of what goes on in politics, understands that the mark of shadows houses are entertainers the same way that we understand that Tony Soprano ran a waste management company. The same way that John Gotti was a legitimate bussinessman.

That's just my opinion, mind you.

It's a little wierd to imagine Cirque du Soule as gangsters, but I have to agree. It seems to be the worst kept secret in the 5 nations.
Shady314
08-02-07, 04:11 AM My view is that anyone who's lived in a city for more than a month, and has even the slightest inkling of what goes on in politics, understands that the mark of shadows houses are entertainers the same way that we understand that Tony Soprano ran a waste management company. The same way that John Gotti was a legitimate bussinessman.

That's just my opinion, mind you.

It's not an open secret the way the Mob is. You can be a mobster and still have people think they know what you do. Heck it helps you intimidate them. If everyone in the whole city knows you're a spy... You're beyond f-ed. That's all the cover a spy has. Everyone in the whole city knows about the super secret spy organization that only deals with Kings and Barons ?? How?
Shady314
08-02-07, 04:12 AM It's a little wierd to imagine Cirque du Soule as gangsters, but I have to agree. It seems to be the worst kept secret in the 5 nations.

Why? It's just a matter of separating character and player knowledge. It's made quite clear in the ECS and Dragonmarked the vast majority of people know them as the entertainer's guild.
Edymnion
08-02-07, 12:45 PM I have always house ruled that you could use a dragonmark to cast the spell for the purposes of item creation.How is that a house rule? Item creation only requires that the spell be cast, it doesn't matter where the spell came from. An artificer can fake it with UMD, you can cast it out of a wand or off a scroll, or have somebody else entirely come in and cast it for you.

I see no reason at all why you couldn't use a dragonmark to provide the spell needed for item creation.
The White Sorcerer
08-02-07, 01:55 PM My view is that anyone who's lived in a city for more than a month, and has even the slightest inkling of what goes on in politics, understands that the mark of shadows houses are entertainers the same way that we understand that Tony Soprano ran a waste management company.

Your view differs quite greatly from the facts of the setting, then. How would the average city dweller EVER find out about the truth behind the Shadow Houses even if he actively investigated?
Seriously, someone lets slip in a bar that House Phiarlan is a spy organization, and he'll be laughed at and ridiculed. Possibly assassinated, as well.

Then again, if by "anyone who's lived in a city for more than a month, and has even the slightest inkling of what goes on in politics" is someone who can make a DC 20 Knowledge (history) or (nobility and royalty) check, then sure.
Belkar
08-02-07, 03:02 PM I feel a bit dumb for asking, but does a Dragonmark's spell-like ability give you the ability to use the same spell in a spell completion or spell trigger item (such as with wands or scrolls)?

Back to the original purpose of this thead... ;)

I think it's a legitimate House Rule, VanBasken, but RAW - it's not a possiblity. Think of it like this: could a Gnome fighter use a scroll of dancing lights or prestidigition? Or a wand of speak with animals? No. But they can still use these as spell-like abilites... ;)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
VanBasken 07-31-07, 03:27 AM	I feel a bit dumb for asking, but does a Dragonmark's spell-like ability give you the ability to use the same spell in a spell completion or spell trigger item (such as with wands or scrolls)? I'm sure the rules on this are listed some place very obvious, but I cant for the life of me find them.
DBlizzard 07-31-07, 09:52 AM	No. Both items require the spell be on your spell list. Spell-like abilities don't count. I might consider creating a feat that would allow this.
TiwazTyrsfist 07-31-07, 10:21 AM	Yes, just as a warlock who has an invocation that is functionally identical to a spell must still roll UMD to use a wand of that spell, and just as an Artificer, who gets Bull's Strength as an infusion, must roll UMD to use a wand of Bull's Strength, So too, a person with a dragonmark cannot simply activate spell completion/trigger items for the spell their dragonmark duplicates, they must roll UMD if they have the skill, or else they are unable to use the item.
Shady314 08-01-07, 04:25 AM	Having said all that official rules stuff though (which is all true), Dragonmarks are weak feats and granting this as a house rule would help make them a little more mechanically useful. Would also help explain the Houses power if any marked person could use a charged item with the appropriate spell. And furthers the mystery of the marks. Just a thought.
TiwazTyrsfist 08-01-07, 10:49 AM	I have always house ruled that you could use a dragonmark to cast the spell for the purposes of item creation. Also, Dragonmarks are only weak (IMO) if you ONLY take the Least mark and ONLY play the mechanical aspects, rather than the social aspects. Non-housed gaurds should NEVER be surly to someone with a visible mark, particularly a mark of the Sentinel, or a mark of Shadows. One from respect, the other from reasonable fear of sudden death. Anything 'Official' you do with another dragonmarked house should be easier, because you're a representative of your house. Of coarse, any unofficial business will get much dirtier, but that beside the point. Anyway, I feel having a dragonmark should have the same effects on social situations as being prince. You aren't in charge yet, you may not even be first in line, but you have the ear of the people in power, and someday, you just may be the one sitting on the throne. And if you remember me, I want to be remembered as the guy who was polite and helpful, not the guy who was incredibly rude and made you wait two hours for no reason. That sort of thing.
Shady314 08-01-07, 04:15 PM	Non-housed gaurds should NEVER be surly to someone with a visible mark, particularly a mark of the Sentinel, or a mark of Shadows. One from respect, the other from reasonable fear of sudden death. Why should a guard fear sudden death from a musician/actor? Dragonmarks actually get weaker as you go down the feat line but obviously I'm only speaking mechanically. They're obviously very flavorfulbut socially they're still not that useful. You need the Favored in House feat just to get people in your house to do you favors. Having a Mark let's you lord over commoners. PCs can already lord over commoners.
TiwazTyrsfist 08-01-07, 07:08 PM	My view is that anyone who's lived in a city for more than a month, and has even the slightest inkling of what goes on in politics, understands that the mark of shadows houses are entertainers the same way that we understand that Tony Soprano ran a waste management company. The same way that John Gotti was a legitimate bussinessman. That's just my opinion, mind you.
Belabras 08-02-07, 03:51 AM	My view is that anyone who's lived in a city for more than a month, and has even the slightest inkling of what goes on in politics, understands that the mark of shadows houses are entertainers the same way that we understand that Tony Soprano ran a waste management company. The same way that John Gotti was a legitimate bussinessman. That's just my opinion, mind you. It's a little wierd to imagine Cirque du Soule as gangsters, but I have to agree. It seems to be the worst kept secret in the 5 nations.
Shady314 08-02-07, 04:11 AM	My view is that anyone who's lived in a city for more than a month, and has even the slightest inkling of what goes on in politics, understands that the mark of shadows houses are entertainers the same way that we understand that Tony Soprano ran a waste management company. The same way that John Gotti was a legitimate bussinessman. That's just my opinion, mind you. It's not an open secret the way the Mob is. You can be a mobster and still have people think they know what you do. Heck it helps you intimidate them. If everyone in the whole city knows you're a spy... You're beyond f-ed. That's all the cover a spy has. Everyone in the whole city knows about the super secret spy organization that only deals with Kings and Barons ?? How?
Shady314 08-02-07, 04:12 AM	It's a little wierd to imagine Cirque du Soule as gangsters, but I have to agree. It seems to be the worst kept secret in the 5 nations. Why? It's just a matter of separating character and player knowledge. It's made quite clear in the ECS and Dragonmarked the vast majority of people know them as the entertainer's guild.
Edymnion 08-02-07, 12:45 PM	I have always house ruled that you could use a dragonmark to cast the spell for the purposes of item creation.How is that a house rule? Item creation only requires that the spell be cast, it doesn't matter where the spell came from. An artificer can fake it with UMD, you can cast it out of a wand or off a scroll, or have somebody else entirely come in and cast it for you. I see no reason at all why you couldn't use a dragonmark to provide the spell needed for item creation.
The White Sorcerer 08-02-07, 01:55 PM	My view is that anyone who's lived in a city for more than a month, and has even the slightest inkling of what goes on in politics, understands that the mark of shadows houses are entertainers the same way that we understand that Tony Soprano ran a waste management company. Your view differs quite greatly from the facts of the setting, then. How would the average city dweller EVER find out about the truth behind the Shadow Houses even if he actively investigated? Seriously, someone lets slip in a bar that House Phiarlan is a spy organization, and he'll be laughed at and ridiculed. Possibly assassinated, as well. Then again, if by "anyone who's lived in a city for more than a month, and has even the slightest inkling of what goes on in politics" is someone who can make a DC 20 Knowledge (history) or (nobility and royalty) check, then sure.
Belkar 08-02-07, 03:02 PM	I feel a bit dumb for asking, but does a Dragonmark's spell-like ability give you the ability to use the same spell in a spell completion or spell trigger item (such as with wands or scrolls)? Back to the original purpose of this thead... ;) I think it's a legitimate House Rule, VanBasken, but RAW - it's not a possiblity. Think of it like this: could a Gnome fighter use a scroll of dancing lights or prestidigition? Or a wand of speak with animals? No. But they can still use these as spell-like abilites... ;)