Elementals and airships [Archive] - Wizards Community

Elementals and airships [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
mosaic
10-02-07, 07:03 PM Question - Fire elementals don't fly, so how do they make airships move? I know a ring of fire looks way cooler than a ring of air, but air elementals fly.

On a similar note, I was just rereading the ECS and realized that elemental galleons are hydrofoils, rising up out of the water and traveling on skids. That's why they seem to be powered by air elementals; they're kinda flying, just really, really low. What would a non-submersible water-elemental powered craft look like? I imagine big boats powered by water elemental rings that dip into the water, like river queens with big paddles in the back or those steam boats with a paddle wheel on one side.

Keeping with this elementals-in-their-medium theme, I could see earth-elemental tunneling machines and massive, fire-elemental powered forges and steam engines.

Anyway, just a question and a few thoughts.
Revvecor
10-02-07, 08:29 PM I believe that airships can be powered by any elemental. The reason that an airship flies is that it is made of soarwood. This coupled with the fact that the elemental/dragonshard device is very powerful makes the ship fly, the elemental is merrly a source of energy.
Vharuck
10-03-07, 09:06 AM Question - Fire elementals don't fly, so how do they make airships move? I know a ring of fire looks way cooler than a ring of air, but air elementals fly.

On a similar note, I was just rereading the ECS and realized that elemental galleons are hydrofoils, rising up out of the water and traveling on skids. That's why they seem to be powered by air elementals; they're kinda flying, just really, really low. What would a non-submersible water-elemental powered craft look like? I imagine big boats powered by water elemental rings that dip into the water, like river queens with big paddles in the back or those steam boats with a paddle wheel on one side.

Keeping with this elementals-in-their-medium theme, I could see earth-elemental tunneling machines and massive, fire-elemental powered forges and steam engines.

Anyway, just a question and a few thoughts.

Honestly, I think airships use fire elementals simply for how cool it looks. I'd say flaming rings are worth the suspension of disbelief.

As for the air-elemental galleon, I always imagined the elemental didn't make it levitate, but instead provided the constant and strong winds for the sail. It could be both, which would work very well. I think I'll throw your hovering idea into my future descriptions of the ships.

I'd make a non-submersible boat would resemble an upside-down blimp. The bullet-shaped part would house the elemental and always be underwater. On top of it, the cabins, holds, decks and whatnot will remain above water.

I'd like to throw my own idea for a vessel into the discussion instead of merely giving my take on your ideas:

The Thoqqua

One of the more amazing works of magical creation spurred by the Last War, the Thoqqua is an armored wagon (i.e., a tank) appearing as a long cylinder tapered to a point at both ends and lined with three large, steel wheels on either side. It's the height of a normal human and about twice as long, with a hatch on top allowing access inside for the controller. Three arm-length spikes extend outwards from both ends, their bases side-by-side but their tips forming the points of a triangle. Arcane runes which glow dull red are engraved along each spike's length. An earth elemental bound to the wheels allows the Thoqqua to travel underground much like the elemental's earth glide ability. The wheels can also transport the vessel on ground when need be, such as during combat or to traverse the rare terrains which it can not glide through. The Thoqqua truly lives up to its namesake through its devastating weapon; a fire elemental bound to the runed spikes allows the vessel's controller to unleash a hellish 30' cone of fire from either end. Designed to end battles quickly and decisively by surfacing behind enemy lines and incinerating their soldiers, the Thoqqua never actually saw use in the war. The first working vessel came too late in the war and cost too much for any decent number to be commissioned.
Cifer
10-03-07, 11:10 AM Honestly, I think airships use fire elementals simply for how cool it looks. I'd say flaming rings are worth the suspension of disbelief.
Rings of fire are most definitely cooler than rings of... air.

The Thoqqua
Sounds... a little familiar. Which party of combatants is using "Peace through Power" and "One Vision, One Purpose" as their slogans in your campaign?
BlackDragon71425
10-31-07, 07:28 AM Technically any elemental can power an airship, but an earth elemental powered airship just seems illogical. Same goes for a water elemental. I've created my own airship that uses a Storm Elemental, which in its natural form, can fly. Using a fire elemental makes since because fire is type of energy that people use to power lots of other things.
As for the water elemental galleons, I think the creators were implying that the elemental uses its swim speed as power for the ship, with that power issuing from the skids. Even if the ship wasn't a hydrofoil, and had sails and no skids, they'd probably use normal wind power supplimented with the water elemental bound into the bottom of the ship. Since its in its natural element, it could probably make a ship pretty quick.
Lord_Tirian
10-31-07, 10:18 AM Rings of fire are most definitely cooler than rings of... air.
http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t107/chiguayante/1192774554786.jpg
Say that again...!

Cheers, LT
AstralFireIX
10-31-07, 11:23 PM Air Elementals fly because they're so light and fluffy. Fire Elementals pack an extra explosive 'oomph' to make things move faster.
Alex_
11-01-07, 01:51 AM Question - Fire elementals don't fly, so how do they make airships move? I know a ring of fire looks way cooler than a ring of air, but air elementals fly.

Ummm, heating/expanding of air and directing it towards the rear, causing a difference in density/pressure between the front/rear vessel, which provides forward thrust? I always thought it was since Fire Elementals had the highest speed.

Keeping with this elementals-in-their-medium theme, I could see earth-elemental tunneling machines and massive, fire-elemental powered forges and steam engines.

The Explorer's Handbook has an elemental sled with a bound Earth elemental, and Magic of Eberron has another vehicle that looks like a big spiked boulder vehicle that's capable of tunneling through earth.

There's also a Fire/Water ring Airship in Voyage of the Gold Dragon adventure, which uses the steam for power, although there generally remains a lack of steam engines and similar technology in published Eberron material.
naturax
11-01-07, 11:56 AM Has anybody seen or heard about an elemental ship that wasn't powered by a fire/water/air/earth elemental? Like something powered by some other kind of outsider bound to a khyber shard? I'm looking for ideas for something a little different in my game.
Revvecor
11-01-07, 12:04 PM Has anybody seen or heard about an elemental ship that wasn't powered by a fire/water/air/earth elemental? Like something powered by some other kind of outsider bound to a khyber shard? I'm looking for ideas for something a little different in my game.

This thread (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=881648) is one of the threads that discusses that possibility.
Alex_
11-01-07, 12:30 PM Has anybody seen or heard about an elemental ship that wasn't powered by a fire/water/air/earth elemental? Like something powered by some other kind of outsider bound to a khyber shard? I'm looking for ideas for something a little different in my game.

Explorer's handbook has some. I can specifically remember a Dhakaani sword with a fiend bound inside an embedded Khyber shard, and optional rules for making it into an intelligent weapon to represent the imprisoned fiend's limited influence.
naturax
11-01-07, 12:34 PM This thread (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=881648) is one of the threads that discusses that possibility.

Thanks!

Explorer's handbook has some. I can specifically remember a Dhakaani sword with a fiend bound inside an embedded Khyber shard, and optional rules for making it into an intelligent weapon to represent the imprisoned fiend's limited influence.

I'll have to look that up, thanks.
Edymnion
11-01-07, 04:22 PM http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t107/chiguayante/1192774554786.jpg
Say that again...!

Cheers, LTSweet, who drew that one?

Anyway, this is my theory:
Normal airships use fire elementals because the fire elementals provide the most raw power. Its not any flying ability of the elemental that keeps the ship in the sky, but there is something else that uses the power of the elemental to keep it up.

Its kind of like saying a gasoline engine can't fly, but when you hook it up to a propeller and a set of wings, it's raw power is enough to make a plane fly.

Also, I don't remember where I read it, but there was an abnormally large airship that had a fire ring as the primary ring, and then several smaller air elemental rings. So, its possible that there are limits to how big you can go with the fire elemental's raw power before you have to start binding in some air elementals to keep the thing aloft.

So, while it could be possible to power an airship with an air elemental, I would imagine it would be like a racing varient. Very fast, but weak. Could outrun anything in the skies, but would be incapable of carrying cargo or a large crew compliment. A scout vessel, perhaps.
Lord_Tirian
11-01-07, 05:28 PM Sweet, who drew that one?
Sorry, no real clue. I've found it on RPG.net (http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?t=360188)... but it's awesome enough to be bookmarked, despite my dislike of rpg.net.

Cheers, LT.
Need_A_Life
11-01-07, 06:52 PM It's from the Heirs of Ash novel series
IMAL
11-06-07, 11:11 PM I think the airship pictured above is the Karia Naille. I've been reading the trilogy by Rich Wulf and, in several places, he mentions that the ring burned a bright blue. As I read, he described that the ring's color took on different colors based on the elemental's moods (or there was a change of speed or intensity of flight). The two other airships mentioned in the trilogy had brilliant red or orange rings of fire.
There hasn't been any mention of any other elemental types used for airships, but I would imagine that, according to Mr. Wulf, airships would use bound fire elementals.

I have wondered why air elementals weren't used instead of fire elementals. It seems more logical to me to use air elementals. I'm pretty sure you can use other elemental types, but I would stick to air or fire, seeing as they would be more commonly available / easier to procure. Different elementals could be used in different environments, or even in different applications (Stealthy airships might use air elementals...?). Even "airships" used on different planes may use different elemental sources based on what's available. Alex_ and AstralFireIX have the right idea with the thermodynamics concerning the fire elemental airship. Generally, it may work like a primitive jet engine, to an extent. Want to go faster? Got some questions about propane and propane accessories? Seek out an airship bound by a fire elemental. Just our for a casual flight? Et cetera, et cetera, et cetera...

Now that I'm done with that, I've got a few Elemental Airship questions:

Is there a size limit to the elemental ring? (Minimum / Maximum) Can the size be changed by binding the appropriately sized elemental?

Is there a set orientation for the elemental ring? (Does the ring necessarily have to be vertical, or can it be horizontal, or even placed at an angle?)

An example of what I would have in mind:
A launch or skiff-sized vehicle used primarily for vertical flight. Maybe limited horizontal flight. A secondary vehicle to a larger ship for the transport of people and cargo to places where flying a full-sized vessel would be prohibitive or an outright bad idea.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
mosaic 10-02-07, 07:03 PM	Question - Fire elementals don't fly, so how do they make airships move? I know a ring of fire looks way cooler than a ring of air, but air elementals fly. On a similar note, I was just rereading the ECS and realized that elemental galleons are hydrofoils, rising up out of the water and traveling on skids. That's why they seem to be powered by air elementals; they're kinda flying, just really, really low. What would a non-submersible water-elemental powered craft look like? I imagine big boats powered by water elemental rings that dip into the water, like river queens with big paddles in the back or those steam boats with a paddle wheel on one side. Keeping with this elementals-in-their-medium theme, I could see earth-elemental tunneling machines and massive, fire-elemental powered forges and steam engines. Anyway, just a question and a few thoughts.
Revvecor 10-02-07, 08:29 PM	I believe that airships can be powered by any elemental. The reason that an airship flies is that it is made of soarwood. This coupled with the fact that the elemental/dragonshard device is very powerful makes the ship fly, the elemental is merrly a source of energy.
Vharuck 10-03-07, 09:06 AM	Question - Fire elementals don't fly, so how do they make airships move? I know a ring of fire looks way cooler than a ring of air, but air elementals fly. On a similar note, I was just rereading the ECS and realized that elemental galleons are hydrofoils, rising up out of the water and traveling on skids. That's why they seem to be powered by air elementals; they're kinda flying, just really, really low. What would a non-submersible water-elemental powered craft look like? I imagine big boats powered by water elemental rings that dip into the water, like river queens with big paddles in the back or those steam boats with a paddle wheel on one side. Keeping with this elementals-in-their-medium theme, I could see earth-elemental tunneling machines and massive, fire-elemental powered forges and steam engines. Anyway, just a question and a few thoughts. Honestly, I think airships use fire elementals simply for how cool it looks. I'd say flaming rings are worth the suspension of disbelief. As for the air-elemental galleon, I always imagined the elemental didn't make it levitate, but instead provided the constant and strong winds for the sail. It could be both, which would work very well. I think I'll throw your hovering idea into my future descriptions of the ships. I'd make a non-submersible boat would resemble an upside-down blimp. The bullet-shaped part would house the elemental and always be underwater. On top of it, the cabins, holds, decks and whatnot will remain above water. I'd like to throw my own idea for a vessel into the discussion instead of merely giving my take on your ideas: The Thoqqua One of the more amazing works of magical creation spurred by the Last War, the Thoqqua is an armored wagon (i.e., a tank) appearing as a long cylinder tapered to a point at both ends and lined with three large, steel wheels on either side. It's the height of a normal human and about twice as long, with a hatch on top allowing access inside for the controller. Three arm-length spikes extend outwards from both ends, their bases side-by-side but their tips forming the points of a triangle. Arcane runes which glow dull red are engraved along each spike's length. An earth elemental bound to the wheels allows the Thoqqua to travel underground much like the elemental's earth glide ability. The wheels can also transport the vessel on ground when need be, such as during combat or to traverse the rare terrains which it can not glide through. The Thoqqua truly lives up to its namesake through its devastating weapon; a fire elemental bound to the runed spikes allows the vessel's controller to unleash a hellish 30' cone of fire from either end. Designed to end battles quickly and decisively by surfacing behind enemy lines and incinerating their soldiers, the Thoqqua never actually saw use in the war. The first working vessel came too late in the war and cost too much for any decent number to be commissioned.
Cifer 10-03-07, 11:10 AM	Honestly, I think airships use fire elementals simply for how cool it looks. I'd say flaming rings are worth the suspension of disbelief. Rings of fire are most definitely cooler than rings of... air. The Thoqqua Sounds... a little familiar. Which party of combatants is using "Peace through Power" and "One Vision, One Purpose" as their slogans in your campaign?
BlackDragon71425 10-31-07, 07:28 AM	Technically any elemental can power an airship, but an earth elemental powered airship just seems illogical. Same goes for a water elemental. I've created my own airship that uses a Storm Elemental, which in its natural form, can fly. Using a fire elemental makes since because fire is type of energy that people use to power lots of other things. As for the water elemental galleons, I think the creators were implying that the elemental uses its swim speed as power for the ship, with that power issuing from the skids. Even if the ship wasn't a hydrofoil, and had sails and no skids, they'd probably use normal wind power supplimented with the water elemental bound into the bottom of the ship. Since its in its natural element, it could probably make a ship pretty quick.
Lord_Tirian 10-31-07, 10:18 AM	Rings of fire are most definitely cooler than rings of... air. http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t107/chiguayante/1192774554786.jpg Say that again...! Cheers, LT
AstralFireIX 10-31-07, 11:23 PM	Air Elementals fly because they're so light and fluffy. Fire Elementals pack an extra explosive 'oomph' to make things move faster.
Alex_ 11-01-07, 01:51 AM	Question - Fire elementals don't fly, so how do they make airships move? I know a ring of fire looks way cooler than a ring of air, but air elementals fly. Ummm, heating/expanding of air and directing it towards the rear, causing a difference in density/pressure between the front/rear vessel, which provides forward thrust? I always thought it was since Fire Elementals had the highest speed. Keeping with this elementals-in-their-medium theme, I could see earth-elemental tunneling machines and massive, fire-elemental powered forges and steam engines. The Explorer's Handbook has an elemental sled with a bound Earth elemental, and Magic of Eberron has another vehicle that looks like a big spiked boulder vehicle that's capable of tunneling through earth. There's also a Fire/Water ring Airship in Voyage of the Gold Dragon adventure, which uses the steam for power, although there generally remains a lack of steam engines and similar technology in published Eberron material.
naturax 11-01-07, 11:56 AM	Has anybody seen or heard about an elemental ship that wasn't powered by a fire/water/air/earth elemental? Like something powered by some other kind of outsider bound to a khyber shard? I'm looking for ideas for something a little different in my game.
Revvecor 11-01-07, 12:04 PM	Has anybody seen or heard about an elemental ship that wasn't powered by a fire/water/air/earth elemental? Like something powered by some other kind of outsider bound to a khyber shard? I'm looking for ideas for something a little different in my game. This thread (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=881648) is one of the threads that discusses that possibility.
Alex_ 11-01-07, 12:30 PM	Has anybody seen or heard about an elemental ship that wasn't powered by a fire/water/air/earth elemental? Like something powered by some other kind of outsider bound to a khyber shard? I'm looking for ideas for something a little different in my game. Explorer's handbook has some. I can specifically remember a Dhakaani sword with a fiend bound inside an embedded Khyber shard, and optional rules for making it into an intelligent weapon to represent the imprisoned fiend's limited influence.
naturax 11-01-07, 12:34 PM	This thread (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=881648) is one of the threads that discusses that possibility. Thanks! Explorer's handbook has some. I can specifically remember a Dhakaani sword with a fiend bound inside an embedded Khyber shard, and optional rules for making it into an intelligent weapon to represent the imprisoned fiend's limited influence. I'll have to look that up, thanks.
Edymnion 11-01-07, 04:22 PM	http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t107/chiguayante/1192774554786.jpg Say that again...! Cheers, LTSweet, who drew that one? Anyway, this is my theory: Normal airships use fire elementals because the fire elementals provide the most raw power. Its not any flying ability of the elemental that keeps the ship in the sky, but there is something else that uses the power of the elemental to keep it up. Its kind of like saying a gasoline engine can't fly, but when you hook it up to a propeller and a set of wings, it's raw power is enough to make a plane fly. Also, I don't remember where I read it, but there was an abnormally large airship that had a fire ring as the primary ring, and then several smaller air elemental rings. So, its possible that there are limits to how big you can go with the fire elemental's raw power before you have to start binding in some air elementals to keep the thing aloft. So, while it could be possible to power an airship with an air elemental, I would imagine it would be like a racing varient. Very fast, but weak. Could outrun anything in the skies, but would be incapable of carrying cargo or a large crew compliment. A scout vessel, perhaps.
Lord_Tirian 11-01-07, 05:28 PM	Sweet, who drew that one? Sorry, no real clue. I've found it on RPG.net (http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?t=360188)... but it's awesome enough to be bookmarked, despite my dislike of rpg.net. Cheers, LT.
Need_A_Life 11-01-07, 06:52 PM	It's from the Heirs of Ash novel series
IMAL 11-06-07, 11:11 PM	I think the airship pictured above is the Karia Naille. I've been reading the trilogy by Rich Wulf and, in several places, he mentions that the ring burned a bright blue. As I read, he described that the ring's color took on different colors based on the elemental's moods (or there was a change of speed or intensity of flight). The two other airships mentioned in the trilogy had brilliant red or orange rings of fire. There hasn't been any mention of any other elemental types used for airships, but I would imagine that, according to Mr. Wulf, airships would use bound fire elementals. I have wondered why air elementals weren't used instead of fire elementals. It seems more logical to me to use air elementals. I'm pretty sure you can use other elemental types, but I would stick to air or fire, seeing as they would be more commonly available / easier to procure. Different elementals could be used in different environments, or even in different applications (Stealthy airships might use air elementals...?). Even "airships" used on different planes may use different elemental sources based on what's available. Alex_ and AstralFireIX have the right idea with the thermodynamics concerning the fire elemental airship. Generally, it may work like a primitive jet engine, to an extent. Want to go faster? Got some questions about propane and propane accessories? Seek out an airship bound by a fire elemental. Just our for a casual flight? Et cetera, et cetera, et cetera... Now that I'm done with that, I've got a few Elemental Airship questions: Is there a size limit to the elemental ring? (Minimum / Maximum) Can the size be changed by binding the appropriately sized elemental? Is there a set orientation for the elemental ring? (Does the ring necessarily have to be vertical, or can it be horizontal, or even placed at an angle?) An example of what I would have in mind: A launch or skiff-sized vehicle used primarily for vertical flight. Maybe limited horizontal flight. A secondary vehicle to a larger ship for the transport of people and cargo to places where flying a full-sized vessel would be prohibitive or an outright bad idea.