Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Forged_For_Hire 05-23-07, 03:15 PM	I have a player who is very much into Fey. The last character he played was a Spirit Shaman from Aerenal (Don't ask me). As a group, we switched off DMing between myself and two other guys. The previous DM allowed it and how was I to refuse to accept it existed. Well, now he wants to play a warlock. I am okay with this. But, he wants to get his powers from a Maenad, if I remember correctly. Thoughts? Yours thankfully, Forged_For_Hire
Rerecros 05-23-07, 03:27 PM	Get his power from a psionic race, no. He could play a Maenad and use their racil anger as his souce of power. Naturaly psionic should grant him 2 extra least invocations. What does this have to do with the fey?
Forged_For_Hire 05-23-07, 03:32 PM	Sorry, I meant a faerie when I was talking about his source of power.
Rerecros 05-23-07, 03:39 PM	Well it would have to be some sort of fairy noble, at least Ecl 20.
Forged_For_Hire 05-23-07, 03:42 PM	Thanks. I just have to make sure he plays it right this time. His spirit shaman was a complete and total failure.
Bluebrush 05-23-07, 07:35 PM	You could have him be attached to the Greensinger druid tradition, which has strong ties to Thelanis.
tallric_kruush 05-23-07, 07:43 PM	Fey are inherently magical, so it need not be too much of a stretch. A Warlock claiming fey ancestry as the source of his power makes every bit as much sense as a Sorceror claiming draconic ancestry. As Bluebrush said, the Greensingers are one group with strong ties to Thelanis. He may or may not be associated with the Greensingers, the fey of the Twilight Demesne, or a similar group. The Eldeen Reaches or Aundair might be a good region of origin for such a character.
Vharuck 05-23-07, 08:13 PM	There's a faerie court. I don't know much about it, but you could just say he draws his power from the faerie court of Thelanis.
Rechan 05-23-07, 11:57 PM	Faerie is actually one of the suggestions I think in the Warlock character description as to an alternate source of power. Heck, Elves are fey-blooded and they have an inherent source of magic. Other suggestions of powers have been suggested: Planar/Elementals, Aberrants/Kyber, the Silver Flame, etc. So a Fae connection is fine. Heck, if you look at the Warlock class, it's got DR/Cold Iron. Cold Iron is a weakness against the fey. Put the noble from Thelanis, set the character from the Eldeen. Suggest that the player might want to choose Invocations that are similar to enchantments/illusions, as that's Fey bread and butter. Another alternative is that he could have received his power from a deal or pact made with the fey. They offer Power in exchange for favors or somesuch. And sometime down the road, the faerie critter may call in that favor.
AkumaDaimyo 05-24-07, 02:31 AM	Warlock powers come from a infernal/evil source though. They dont come from the fae at all. That's kinda why they aren't allowed to be good and also the class name? I wouldn't allow it personally.
Rerecros 05-24-07, 03:23 AM	Warlock powers come from a infernal/evil source though. They dont come from the fae at all. That's kinda why they aren't allowed to be good and also the class name? I wouldn't allow it personally. Incorect, Warlocks can be any chaotic or any evil, chaotic good (the alignment of fey) is just fine ;)
Nived 05-24-07, 03:43 AM	If you read Complete Arcane in the Warlock description it states that fey are one source of Warlocks. Rerecros; Fey are not inherently chaotic good. These are fairy tale creatures, the kind that make you promise to give them your first born (Rumplestiltskin), the kind that fatten up children to eat them (the old woman from Hansel and Grettel), and such. There are a LOT of D&D fey that are evil, if anything they tend towards neutral, but eh. Rechan; Elves are not fey blooded. They are Humanoid (Elf), no where in the standard PHB text nor in any Eberron text does it assert a connection.
Rerecros 05-24-07, 03:50 AM	No Duh :rolleyes:
AkumaDaimyo 05-24-07, 06:18 AM	Incorect, Warlocks can be any chaotic or any evil, chaotic good (the alignment of fey) is just fine ;) Chaotic Good is fine but I doubt that warlock power can come from the fae and Nived is right. Fae are SO not CG. They don't even think about morality. They are fickel and flighty beings who live in the moment. CG my banal butt. :P I don't, I don't I don't belive in faeries! :D
Yadot 05-24-07, 07:23 PM	Chaotic Good is fine but I doubt that warlock power can come from the fae and Nived is right. Fae are SO not CG. They don't even think about morality. They are fickel and flighty beings who live in the moment. CG my banal butt. :P I don't, I don't I don't belive in faeries! :D You're right. I have no idea where the Warlock fluff from Complete Arcane got the idea that Fae could be a source of a Warlock's power. :)
AkumaDaimyo 05-24-07, 07:33 PM	You're right. I have no idea where the Warlock fluff from Complete Arcane got the idea that Fae could be a source of a Warlock's power. :) I'm right that it's wrong to say fae are CG. They sure as hell arent. And you DON't get the idea where the fluff got the idea that Fae are a appropiate source. They don't explain where they got this idea, they just say thats how it is. Just because the book says they are doesn't mean it makes sense or is correct. If you actually read the more informative fluff on them it says Warlocks are familiar with the darkness lurking in his heart. If his patron is CG and he is CG there where exactly is the "darkness" in his heart hmmm? As I said, no sense at all. The theme of the Warlock is dark powers derived from a dangerous pact. A chaotic good patron isn't going to be like that at all. Fae should not be CG. They are more like CN. They do what they want with no real regard to laws or morality.
MetaEidolon 05-25-07, 12:56 AM	Fae should not be CG. They are more like CN. They do what they want with no real regard to laws or morality. Given that there are dozens of creatures that fall into the fey subtype, and Eberron's basic stance on alignment, I would allow it, in the right circumstances. Find a dark-minded fey (by race, if you feel bound by core alignment). Take the Shadar-Kai and make the player choose invocations that are shadow based or illusions. Or create a unique individual to be the characters patron - no one expects that cute little pixie to be a power-brokering, mankind-hating, power-hungry monster - but this is, after all, Eberron.
Syltorian 05-25-07, 08:35 AM	I'm right that it's wrong to say fae are CG. They sure as hell arent. Really? Fey come in all shades. Most are, as you say, just free spirits doing what they want, selfish and unaware of concepts like, say, private property or even death. Many are evil and vicious, murdering, stealing, kidnapping, and playing dangerous tricks. But there are those who seek to help mortals. Granted, they usually endanger them because they cannot understand humans any more than humans can understand the fey, but that doesn't mean the latter do not have good intentions. Their chaotic nature unfortunately means that they often fail to take consequences into account before they try to 'put things right'. In general, yes, fey tend more to CN than to CG. But that's not to say that there aren't any CG fey. And you DON't get the idea where the fluff got the idea that Fae are a appropiate source. They don't explain where they got this idea, they just say thats how it is. Perhaps you should have a look at Complete Mage, which addresses how Warlocks can gain their power not only from Demons and Devils, but also from Fey, Slaadi and even Celestials (Eladrin). It even has a prestige class for good-aligned warlocks (whose flavour text does, unfortunately, present it as a redemption from a fiendish path; but just because the books says it doesn't mean it makes sense or is correct, after all ;)). It also has several invocations that suit a fey-based warlock rather well. Call of the beast lets you speak with animals and influence their behaviour. Otherworldly whispers, which gives you a bonus on Knowledge, could come from the Otherworld, i.e. the fey realm. Swimming the Styx, grants you a swim speed and water-breathing. Admittedly, the name is more fiendish; but doesn't the effect fit a nixie more than a demon? Witchwood Step: by the name, and helps you in forests and water. Nightmares made Real: Illusory terrain, sounds like the fey to me. Painful Slumber of Ages: What is more fey than eternal sleep? Admittedly, some more of those and perhaps a substitution level or alternative class feature would be great. I've always felt eldritch blast to be too straightforward an attack for the class, but that's a different topic... They fey-touched warlock might make no sense to you, but it makes quite good sense to me. The fey are mysterious, and, much more than demons and devils, masters of magic on a plane that has great ties to magic. Feytouched have always been feared as much as demon-touched. It's a world mortals do not understand, and it's a world that is chaotic, unpredictable, and thinks along different lines. That does not make them evil, simply, as CA puts it, wild and dangerous. If you actually read the more informative fluff on them it says Warlocks are familiar with the darkness lurking in his heart. If his patron is CG and he is CG there where exactly is the "darkness" in his heart hmmm? As I said, no sense at all. Poor choice of wording? You claim that what the book says might not be correct, then go on to use the book to underline your claims. Otherwise, there might be possible explanations for the "darkness": Perhaps mortals simply weren't meant to wield such power, and the wild magic inside them threatens to consume them. Perhaps it's simply Silver Flame propaganda.
Vharuck 05-25-07, 11:16 AM	Changing rules is a headache, as we often cause more problems than we fix. Changing flavor is fun. That's all, just fun.
Forged_For_Hire 05-25-07, 02:02 PM	I want to thank you all for your help with this topic. It has been helpful. We haven't played our game yet, but the guy switched what he was going to do. He is now going to be a CN Changeling Cleric (Traveler). Thank you guys so much for all your help in the search for Fey in Eberron and the debate of warlocks.
Hellcow 05-25-07, 02:52 PM	Just to throw in my two coppers... I feel there are many sources one can use to justify the power of a warlock. I've personally used a warforged warlock with powers stemming from the Mourning and a Child of Winter whose powers flow from the Gloaming in my campaigns, and I suggested warlocks as fitting with the Cults of the Dragon Below; I even set it as the favored class for the Umbragen, suggesting that the racial connection to the Umbra is one of their defining features (as a general rule I hate changing favored class, but the point here was that it was a genetic predisposition, not simply cultural). I think that the energy of Thelanis and/or fey ancestry is as good a basis for a warlock as any, as long as the choice of invocations fits the theme. And as for my take on fey, well, much of The Gates of Night is set in Thelanis, so there you are.
tallric_kruush 05-25-07, 07:08 PM	Just to throw in my two coppers... I feel there are many sources one can use to justify the power of a warlock. I've personally used a warforged warlock with powers stemming from the Mourning and a Child of Winter whose powers flow from the Gloaming in my campaigns...I think that the energy of Thelanis and/or fey ancestry is as good a basis for a warlock as any, as long as the choice of invocations fits the theme... I wrote-up (but never played) a Cyran warlock with powers stemming from the Mourning, much like your warforged. I also sketched up an Adventuring group that featured a fey-blooded Warlock. One thing I always liked about the Warlock was how versatile it could be in this respect. I agree that there are many potential sources for the warlock's power. If someone wants to stick strictly with the fiendish flavor of the CAr fluff, that's fine. It does fit. In my mind, though, the same could be said of many magical heritages. Fey-blooded, fiend-blooded (Law in lieu of Chaos? Silver in lieu of Cold Iron?), the victim of a magical cataclysm such as the Mourning---to me, all these make good in-game sense. Each also fits the crunch with no, or minimal, changes. I'd again like to say (as I posted a few days ago) that a fey-blooded Warlock makes as much sense to me as a dragon-blooded Sorceror. In each case, the PC's class is an expression of his magical heritage. I've never seen anyone scoff at the idea of a dragon-blooded Sorceror with the same fervor we're seeing in this Warlock debate. Just my two cents.
Nived 05-28-07, 03:18 PM	I just wanted to mention that I did once create a human warlock in Eberron who's origin traced back to the fey. He was a victim of elastic time. He got lost in the woods, was found a few days later, but he had aged several years and had no idea what happened to him, however its been theorized he somehow fell into Thelanis. He has regular nightmares with bizarre visions from the dark side of the fairy realm, you know, the worst sections of the original Grimm's Fairy Tales. I had just read Heroes of Horror and liked their interpritation of the fey, that and I dusted off my old battered copy of Grimms (can't believe my mom actually read me some of those stories as a kid). Anyway this Warlock had dreams of himself doing things. This is how he learns his powers, its not so much he learns invocations as it seems more like remembering how to do them. I never gave a reason why he has the powers, what pact he made... I left that for my DM to beat me with later. Sadly that game never got higher than 5th level and kinda got set aside. Shame really.
tallric_kruush 05-28-07, 09:08 PM	I just wanted to mention that I did once create a human warlock in Eberron who's origin traced back to the fey. He was a victim of elastic time. He got lost in the woods, was found a few days later, but he had aged several years and had no idea what happened to him, however its been theorized he somehow fell into Thelanis. He has regular nightmares with bizarre visions from the dark side of the fairy realm, you know, the worst sections of the original Grimm's Fairy Tales. I had just read Heroes of Horror and liked their interpritation of the fey, that and I dusted off my old battered copy of Grimms (can't believe my mom actually read me some of those stories as a kid). Anyway this Warlock had dreams of himself doing things. This is how he learns his powers, its not so much he learns invocations as it seems more like remembering how to do them. I never gave a reason why he has the powers, what pact he made... I left that for my DM to beat me with later. Sadly that game never got higher than 5th level and kinda got set aside. Shame really. This is a very well-conceived backstory. The concept makes sense, and the story really captures the "noir" feel of Eberron. I also like the gaps in his past. You gave your DM some very nice potential with which to build. It's a real shame that he's on the shelf for now. I hope you get to pick up his story again.
Adamaro23 05-29-07, 04:27 AM	from what i've read in PGtE in a sidebar, a warlock draws power from Rakshasas that are imprisoned in The Demon Wastes, and that the Lords of Dust seek out warlocks to help them free the Rakshasas.
tallric_kruush 05-29-07, 05:07 PM	from what i've read in PGtE in a sidebar, a warlock draws power from Rakshasas that are imprisoned in The Demon Wastes, and that the Lords of Dust seek out warlocks to help them free the Rakshasas. That sidebar is just one option. Sidebars (and the supplements themselves, if you ask some on the boards), aren't official canon. They're merely possibilities offered. The post above by Hellcow, a.k.a. Keith Baker, shows that other possibilities are feasible.