Great Wheel Cosmology [Archive] - Wizards Community

Great Wheel Cosmology [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Sir Elton
04-01-07, 01:13 AM Call me heretic, but I'm thinking of using the Great Wheel cosmology instead of using the Eberron Cosmology. I'm thinking of putting Dal Quor close to Hades, and when the Age turns, it migrates to Elysium.

:)
Belabras
04-01-07, 02:08 AM The Wheel can be cool, certainly, but I think you are going to have a lot of headaches with manifest zones, calendars, outsiders, and so on.

I'd put Dal Quor in the Deep Astral.
Sir Elton
04-01-07, 09:02 AM I really don't think so. This site (http://pathguy.com/planes.htm) has lots of ideas of how to do manifest zones.
law
04-01-07, 01:37 PM In the great wheel Dal Quor is just the region of dreams. Just like Xorait (spelling?) is the far realm.

A few manifest zones just change where they are from and bam your set.
Sir Elton
04-01-07, 06:12 PM Or I can set them up as an Orrery. Just that they won't be represented by moons.

(I.E. a few tiny shepherd moons orbiting Eberron doesn't hurt anyone, though.)
androkguz
04-01-07, 06:35 PM Call me heretic, but I'm thinking of using the Great Wheel cosmology instead of using the Eberron Cosmology. I'm thinking of putting Dal Quor close to Hades, and when the Age turns, it migrates to Elysium.

:)

Heretic!!
I hope you rot in the worst pits of Dolurrh and you never get to join the Sovereings.

;)
Edymnion
04-01-07, 07:15 PM Call me heretic, but I'm thinking of using the Great Wheel cosmology instead of using the Eberron Cosmology. I'm thinking of putting Dal Quor close to Hades, and when the Age turns, it migrates to Elysium.

:)Heretic!
Get the back to thine realms forgotten! :D
Sir Elton
04-01-07, 07:18 PM Geeze. You guys are acting like my Mother when she learned that I was a nudist.

FLAMISTS! I HOPE YE ARE THROWN IN SHEVARATH!

:D
Ricohard_Draconis
04-01-07, 11:46 PM Heretic!
Get the back to thine realms forgotten! :D

except the Realms don't use the wheel anymore.
Edymnion
04-02-07, 09:55 PM except the Realms don't use the wheel anymore.It doesn't? Then how the heck does it have so many planetouched and gensai if there's no great wheel for it to hook into?
Neutronium_Dragon
04-02-07, 10:02 PM The Forgotten Realms still (for the most part) uses the normal inner plane arrangement, but the outer planes have been changed to a FR-specific arrangement which organizes the planes by purpose or interest rather than by alignment.

There's a plane for the various gods of magic, one for the gods of benign nature, one for the gods of battle, and so on. Each of those planes can have gods of a wide range of alignments (including opposed ones).

Of course, the Planescape fanatics took great affront at this when it happened during the changeover to 3E. ("How dare they presume to not be enslaved to our cosmology!")
JulesCARV
04-02-07, 10:14 PM I have to confess, I do think Sigil is pretty cool.
Sir Elton
04-02-07, 11:42 PM Of course, the Planescape fanatics took great affront at this when it happened during the changeover to 3E. ("How dare they presume to not be enslaved to our cosmology!")

Hey, I like FR and EB not bound to the Great Wheel initially. The Spirit of 3e is freedom of development. The only reason why I want to put Eberron with the Great Wheel is that there is a lot I can do with the Great Wheel and how it interacts with Eberron.

The site I visited gave me a lot of great ideas. Instead of manifest zones, there could be portal zones. Certain spots on Eberron that lead to the upper planes. They could be so gradual that one wouldn't know it if they were on one of the Upper Planes or not. A lovely waterfall can be a gateway to Elysium. A village that has a 1950's suburbian mentality can be a gateway to Arcadia. Several battles can be a gateway to Acheron. Some places in Karrnath are gateways to Baator, and so forth. These places will always be small in comparison.
:D
Belabras
04-03-07, 01:09 AM I have to confess, I do think Sigil is pretty cool.

Seconded.
Yadot
04-04-07, 06:46 PM Seconded.
I agree... if there is no Lady of Pain.
The White Sorcerer
04-04-07, 07:59 PM It doesn't? Then how the heck does it have so many planetouched and gensai if there's no great wheel for it to hook into?

Because it still has a planar cosmology?
yrogerg
04-04-07, 09:57 PM I agree... if there is no Lady of Pain.

Really? I always thought most people (myself included) considered Her Serenity and all the business caught up around her to be one of the coolest things about The Cage.
Belabras
04-04-07, 10:44 PM Really? I always thought most people (myself included) considered Her Serenity and all the business caught up around her to be one of the coolest things about The Cage.

I have to agree, I like the Lady as well. Only when used by a hamfisted DM would she be a hindrance.
Yadot
04-05-07, 05:48 PM I have to admit that the idea of the Lady just... never clicked with me. I just didn't like the idea of a limitless city with connections to all the plane being controlled by any single thing.
JulesCARV
04-05-07, 07:09 PM I don't think the Lady controls Sigil. If anything, I think the opposite ;).
yrogerg
04-06-07, 12:11 AM I don't think the Lady controls Sigil. If anything, I think the opposite ;).

Right. At least one theory floating around there holds that the Lady, and the Dabus, are simply a manifestation of the city *itself*.
balard
04-11-07, 01:13 PM Im a great fan of planescape and I think you can put eberron in there with little trouble. Just say that the Eberron Prime have very weird planar conection, being to close of 13 planes and very far/blocked from others. Shavarath=Acheron, Irian=Elysiun, Xoriat=Abyss.

Remenber that the planes are infinity(at least i think its cooler this way) and you can insert a near infinity area into it, and say that its far and very badly conected. If you go from eberorn to shavarath, you just go into a huge battlefield of archons and devils. To than, that is just a small battle, but to eberron mortals seens like the role plane is dedicated to that.

And so on and on.
Yadot
04-11-07, 07:01 PM Right. At least one theory floating around there holds that the Lady, and the Dabus, are simply a manifestation of the city *itself*.
Ah well, I guess there are fans like me in every setting. Planescapers who dislike the Lady, Forgotten Realms players that hate Mystra, Dark Sun fans that don't like the idea of a world-spanning Thri-Kreen empire, etc.
yrogerg
04-11-07, 07:47 PM I have to admit that the idea of the Lady just... never clicked with me. I just didn't like the idea of a limitless city with connections to all the plane being controlled by any single thing.

The other interesting thing about The Lady, it's worth pointing out, is that she's as enigmatic as the city itself; there's no clear reason *why* she makes the decisions she does, what she is, where her power comes from, and so on... she may control the city, or vice versa, but she is, more than anything, an unknown quantity.
ArcTan
04-15-07, 06:55 PM In the great wheel Dal Quor is just the region of dreams. Just like Xorait (spelling?) is the far realm.

A few manifest zones just change where they are from and bam your set.

The Region of Dreams technically isn't in the Great Wheel. It's part of a variant cosmology.

And the Region of Dreams presented in the MotP is an inter-world plane rather than specific to one Prime world. So either Dal Quor is just a region of the Region of Dreams, or else *every* Material world's dreams are controlled by the evil of il-Lashtavar.
ArcTan
04-15-07, 06:56 PM The Forgotten Realms still (for the most part) uses the normal inner plane arrangement, but the outer planes have been changed to a FR-specific arrangement which organizes the planes by purpose or interest rather than by alignment.

There's a plane for the various gods of magic, one for the gods of benign nature, one for the gods of battle, and so on. Each of those planes can have gods of a wide range of alignments (including opposed ones).

Of course, the Planescape fanatics took great affront at this when it happened during the changeover to 3E. ("How dare they presume to not be enslaved to our cosmology!")

Isn't it explained by saying Vecna sliced up the multiverse when he went on his little spree? Or something?
TheAnthroDM
04-16-07, 02:57 AM I don't understand how the Great Wheel can be used in Ebberon for soley one reason, if the planes don't move, then it is imposible for the Inspired to be pulling Dal Quor closer to Ebberon and the connection that was severed never would have existed in the first place. :confused:
Neutronium_Dragon
04-16-07, 07:34 AM > Isn't it explained by saying Vecna sliced up the multiverse when he went on
> his little spree? Or something?

No. As far as 3E FR is concerned, it was never part of the Great Wheel/Planescape to begin with.

And that's actually how the setting was originally conceived and presented throughout most of its early period. Other settings were generally similarly independent. This only changed during later 2E days when a directive was handed down by TSR management that all settings had to conform to the Planescape standard (since the theory was that no one would be interested in Planescape/planar books otherwise).

3E just returned things to the previous assumption that settings aren't officially related or all part of one cosmology, and in that regard it cleared the way for Eberron to have its own cosmology too.
GothicDan
04-16-07, 06:08 PM Correction: FR's cosmology was NEVER explicitely defined, even in its original inception. The best analogy we have is Ed Greenwood saying it was vaguely like the Wood Between the Worlds (which is pretty similar to the Astral), and absolutely nothing else. So placing it in the Great Wheel did nothing to impede any previously established lore or theme, and Ed Greenwood himself said that he would have preferred if its cosmology had remained one and the same for continuity's sake (according to him, internal continuity and consistency being perhaps the most important aspect of world design).

And it was officially linked to the rest of the Great Wheel multiverse before latter 2E; Myrkul lived in the Grey Waste, for example, and he was a 1E deity.

*Stumbles back into lurking shadows to read random Eberron-y things.*
Neutronium_Dragon
04-16-07, 06:41 PM Nonetheless, the "Great Great-Wheel-izing" (of all settings) was brought on by the desire to link everything to Planescape in later 2E days, and 3E took the initiative on reversing that decision. On his boards, Sean K. Reynolds, who is one of the co-authors of the FRCS (3E) and a range of other FR books, described the progression from being nebulously independent to being railroaded into Planescape and then pulled back out again and given its own cosmology (which frankly makes more sense in the context of the FR than the Wheel does), as well as the reason why each decision was taken in turn.
Altar_Boy
04-16-07, 07:23 PM The other interesting thing about The Lady, it's worth pointing out, is that she's as enigmatic as the city itself; there's no clear reason *why* she makes the decisions she does, what she is, where her power comes from, and so on... she may control the city, or vice versa, but she is, more than anything, an unknown quantity.

Indeed. I've even pondered if the Lady exists at all. Reading the works of Latin-American and Irish writers, the concept of the Lady is reminiscient of a mythical creature scapegoated for unimaginable things. Examples:

1) If a Son of Mercy becomes too corrupt, all his comrades need do is kill him and hide the evidence well enough, and rumour will spread that the Lady of Pain has dealt with him.

2) If a powerful trader is blown to smithereens in the night, it wasn't because he was trading in explosives. It was because he lead a cabal of terrorists udner guise of business. "Kill his minions," yell the masses, "and save us!" As the last heads are lobbed off, the random act of destruction is given purpose and closure.

Of course, that's my Eberronian look at it.
yrogerg
04-16-07, 11:15 PM Indeed. I've even pondered if the Lady exists at all. Reading the works of Latin-American and Irish writers, the concept of the Lady is reminiscient of a mythical creature scapegoated for unimaginable things. Examples:

1) If a Son of Mercy becomes too corrupt, all his comrades need do is kill him and hide the evidence well enough, and rumour will spread that the Lady of Pain has dealt with him.

2) If a powerful trader is blown to smithereens in the night, it wasn't because he was trading in explosives. It was because he lead a cabal of terrorists udner guise of business. "Kill his minions," yell the masses, "and save us!" As the last heads are lobbed off, the random act of destruction is given purpose and closure.

Of course, that's my Eberronian look at it.

That's actually a pretty cool thought, though I'd honestly rank it up there with "nine awakened squirrels armed with dancing swords and a high Disguise check" as far as plausibility is concerned.
The White Sorcerer
04-17-07, 06:15 AM "nine awakened squirrels armed with dancing swords and a high Disguise check"

Now that is a pretty cool thought.
Altar_Boy
04-17-07, 07:57 PM Squirrels? C'mon man. Think big! DIRE squirrels! Or even better, skiurrids! :P

FYI, I'm not very versed in the ins-and-outs of Planescape. I've just assumed that Lady of Pain is a shadowy figure whose existence cannot be readily verified. Kind of like the Lord of Blades.

:lightbulb
The White Sorcerer
04-18-07, 05:08 PM Squirrels? C'mon man. Think big! DIRE squirrels!

It's not the size that matters, but how you use them.:D
yrogerg
06-21-07, 07:42 AM Ah well, I guess there are fans like me in every setting. Planescapers who dislike the Lady, Forgotten Realms players that hate Mystra, Dark Sun fans that don't like the idea of a world-spanning Thri-Kreen empire, etc.

Eberron fans who want to hook it into the Great Wheel and directly port in gods from FR...
XHereticX
06-21-07, 01:38 PM Correction: FR's cosmology was NEVER explicitely defined, even in its original inception. The best analogy we have is Ed Greenwood saying it was vaguely like the Wood Between the Worlds (which is pretty similar to the Astral), and absolutely nothing else. So placing it in the Great Wheel did nothing to impede any previously established lore or theme, and Ed Greenwood himself said that he would have preferred if its cosmology had remained one and the same for continuity's sake (according to him, internal continuity and consistency being perhaps the most important aspect of world design).

And it was officially linked to the rest of the Great Wheel multiverse before latter 2E; Myrkul lived in the Grey Waste, for example, and he was a 1E deity.

*Stumbles back into lurking shadows to read random Eberron-y things.*

If that is the case, Dan, what is up with this article? http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5325859&postcount=86
DragoonDarkfire
06-21-07, 02:24 PM Eberron fans who want to hook it into the Great Wheel and directly port in gods from FR...

wait... who the hell does that?
yrogerg
06-22-07, 12:45 AM wait... who the hell does that?

Wait, what was this thread about again? Where am I? What's going on? Damn kids get off my lawn!:fight!:

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Sir Elton 04-01-07, 01:13 AM	Call me heretic, but I'm thinking of using the Great Wheel cosmology instead of using the Eberron Cosmology. I'm thinking of putting Dal Quor close to Hades, and when the Age turns, it migrates to Elysium. :)
Belabras 04-01-07, 02:08 AM	The Wheel can be cool, certainly, but I think you are going to have a lot of headaches with manifest zones, calendars, outsiders, and so on. I'd put Dal Quor in the Deep Astral.
Sir Elton 04-01-07, 09:02 AM	I really don't think so. This site (http://pathguy.com/planes.htm) has lots of ideas of how to do manifest zones.
law 04-01-07, 01:37 PM	In the great wheel Dal Quor is just the region of dreams. Just like Xorait (spelling?) is the far realm. A few manifest zones just change where they are from and bam your set.
Sir Elton 04-01-07, 06:12 PM	Or I can set them up as an Orrery. Just that they won't be represented by moons. (I.E. a few tiny shepherd moons orbiting Eberron doesn't hurt anyone, though.)
androkguz 04-01-07, 06:35 PM	Call me heretic, but I'm thinking of using the Great Wheel cosmology instead of using the Eberron Cosmology. I'm thinking of putting Dal Quor close to Hades, and when the Age turns, it migrates to Elysium. :) Heretic!! I hope you rot in the worst pits of Dolurrh and you never get to join the Sovereings. ;)
Edymnion 04-01-07, 07:15 PM	Call me heretic, but I'm thinking of using the Great Wheel cosmology instead of using the Eberron Cosmology. I'm thinking of putting Dal Quor close to Hades, and when the Age turns, it migrates to Elysium. :)Heretic! Get the back to thine realms forgotten! :D
Sir Elton 04-01-07, 07:18 PM	Geeze. You guys are acting like my Mother when she learned that I was a nudist. FLAMISTS! I HOPE YE ARE THROWN IN SHEVARATH! :D
Ricohard_Draconis 04-01-07, 11:46 PM	Heretic! Get the back to thine realms forgotten! :D except the Realms don't use the wheel anymore.
Edymnion 04-02-07, 09:55 PM	except the Realms don't use the wheel anymore.It doesn't? Then how the heck does it have so many planetouched and gensai if there's no great wheel for it to hook into?
Neutronium_Dragon 04-02-07, 10:02 PM	The Forgotten Realms still (for the most part) uses the normal inner plane arrangement, but the outer planes have been changed to a FR-specific arrangement which organizes the planes by purpose or interest rather than by alignment. There's a plane for the various gods of magic, one for the gods of benign nature, one for the gods of battle, and so on. Each of those planes can have gods of a wide range of alignments (including opposed ones). Of course, the Planescape fanatics took great affront at this when it happened during the changeover to 3E. ("How dare they presume to not be enslaved to our cosmology!")
JulesCARV 04-02-07, 10:14 PM	I have to confess, I do think Sigil is pretty cool.
Sir Elton 04-02-07, 11:42 PM	Of course, the Planescape fanatics took great affront at this when it happened during the changeover to 3E. ("How dare they presume to not be enslaved to our cosmology!") Hey, I like FR and EB not bound to the Great Wheel initially. The Spirit of 3e is freedom of development. The only reason why I want to put Eberron with the Great Wheel is that there is a lot I can do with the Great Wheel and how it interacts with Eberron. The site I visited gave me a lot of great ideas. Instead of manifest zones, there could be portal zones. Certain spots on Eberron that lead to the upper planes. They could be so gradual that one wouldn't know it if they were on one of the Upper Planes or not. A lovely waterfall can be a gateway to Elysium. A village that has a 1950's suburbian mentality can be a gateway to Arcadia. Several battles can be a gateway to Acheron. Some places in Karrnath are gateways to Baator, and so forth. These places will always be small in comparison. :D
Belabras 04-03-07, 01:09 AM	I have to confess, I do think Sigil is pretty cool. Seconded.
Yadot 04-04-07, 06:46 PM	Seconded. I agree... if there is no Lady of Pain.
The White Sorcerer 04-04-07, 07:59 PM	It doesn't? Then how the heck does it have so many planetouched and gensai if there's no great wheel for it to hook into? Because it still has a planar cosmology?
yrogerg 04-04-07, 09:57 PM	I agree... if there is no Lady of Pain. Really? I always thought most people (myself included) considered Her Serenity and all the business caught up around her to be one of the coolest things about The Cage.
Belabras 04-04-07, 10:44 PM	Really? I always thought most people (myself included) considered Her Serenity and all the business caught up around her to be one of the coolest things about The Cage. I have to agree, I like the Lady as well. Only when used by a hamfisted DM would she be a hindrance.
Yadot 04-05-07, 05:48 PM	I have to admit that the idea of the Lady just... never clicked with me. I just didn't like the idea of a limitless city with connections to all the plane being controlled by any single thing.
JulesCARV 04-05-07, 07:09 PM	I don't think the Lady controls Sigil. If anything, I think the opposite ;).
yrogerg 04-06-07, 12:11 AM	I don't think the Lady controls Sigil. If anything, I think the opposite ;). Right. At least one theory floating around there holds that the Lady, and the Dabus, are simply a manifestation of the city itself.
balard 04-11-07, 01:13 PM	Im a great fan of planescape and I think you can put eberron in there with little trouble. Just say that the Eberron Prime have very weird planar conection, being to close of 13 planes and very far/blocked from others. Shavarath=Acheron, Irian=Elysiun, Xoriat=Abyss. Remenber that the planes are infinity(at least i think its cooler this way) and you can insert a near infinity area into it, and say that its far and very badly conected. If you go from eberorn to shavarath, you just go into a huge battlefield of archons and devils. To than, that is just a small battle, but to eberron mortals seens like the role plane is dedicated to that. And so on and on.
Yadot 04-11-07, 07:01 PM	Right. At least one theory floating around there holds that the Lady, and the Dabus, are simply a manifestation of the city itself. Ah well, I guess there are fans like me in every setting. Planescapers who dislike the Lady, Forgotten Realms players that hate Mystra, Dark Sun fans that don't like the idea of a world-spanning Thri-Kreen empire, etc.
yrogerg 04-11-07, 07:47 PM	I have to admit that the idea of the Lady just... never clicked with me. I just didn't like the idea of a limitless city with connections to all the plane being controlled by any single thing. The other interesting thing about The Lady, it's worth pointing out, is that she's as enigmatic as the city itself; there's no clear reason why she makes the decisions she does, what she is, where her power comes from, and so on... she may control the city, or vice versa, but she is, more than anything, an unknown quantity.
ArcTan 04-15-07, 06:55 PM	In the great wheel Dal Quor is just the region of dreams. Just like Xorait (spelling?) is the far realm. A few manifest zones just change where they are from and bam your set. The Region of Dreams technically isn't in the Great Wheel. It's part of a variant cosmology. And the Region of Dreams presented in the MotP is an inter-world plane rather than specific to one Prime world. So either Dal Quor is just a region of the Region of Dreams, or else every Material world's dreams are controlled by the evil of il-Lashtavar.
ArcTan 04-15-07, 06:56 PM	The Forgotten Realms still (for the most part) uses the normal inner plane arrangement, but the outer planes have been changed to a FR-specific arrangement which organizes the planes by purpose or interest rather than by alignment. There's a plane for the various gods of magic, one for the gods of benign nature, one for the gods of battle, and so on. Each of those planes can have gods of a wide range of alignments (including opposed ones). Of course, the Planescape fanatics took great affront at this when it happened during the changeover to 3E. ("How dare they presume to not be enslaved to our cosmology!") Isn't it explained by saying Vecna sliced up the multiverse when he went on his little spree? Or something?
TheAnthroDM 04-16-07, 02:57 AM	I don't understand how the Great Wheel can be used in Ebberon for soley one reason, if the planes don't move, then it is imposible for the Inspired to be pulling Dal Quor closer to Ebberon and the connection that was severed never would have existed in the first place. :confused:
Neutronium_Dragon 04-16-07, 07:34 AM	> Isn't it explained by saying Vecna sliced up the multiverse when he went on > his little spree? Or something? No. As far as 3E FR is concerned, it was never part of the Great Wheel/Planescape to begin with. And that's actually how the setting was originally conceived and presented throughout most of its early period. Other settings were generally similarly independent. This only changed during later 2E days when a directive was handed down by TSR management that all settings had to conform to the Planescape standard (since the theory was that no one would be interested in Planescape/planar books otherwise). 3E just returned things to the previous assumption that settings aren't officially related or all part of one cosmology, and in that regard it cleared the way for Eberron to have its own cosmology too.
GothicDan 04-16-07, 06:08 PM	Correction: FR's cosmology was NEVER explicitely defined, even in its original inception. The best analogy we have is Ed Greenwood saying it was vaguely like the Wood Between the Worlds (which is pretty similar to the Astral), and absolutely nothing else. So placing it in the Great Wheel did nothing to impede any previously established lore or theme, and Ed Greenwood himself said that he would have preferred if its cosmology had remained one and the same for continuity's sake (according to him, internal continuity and consistency being perhaps the most important aspect of world design). And it was officially linked to the rest of the Great Wheel multiverse before latter 2E; Myrkul lived in the Grey Waste, for example, and he was a 1E deity. Stumbles back into lurking shadows to read random Eberron-y things.
Neutronium_Dragon 04-16-07, 06:41 PM	Nonetheless, the "Great Great-Wheel-izing" (of all settings) was brought on by the desire to link everything to Planescape in later 2E days, and 3E took the initiative on reversing that decision. On his boards, Sean K. Reynolds, who is one of the co-authors of the FRCS (3E) and a range of other FR books, described the progression from being nebulously independent to being railroaded into Planescape and then pulled back out again and given its own cosmology (which frankly makes more sense in the context of the FR than the Wheel does), as well as the reason why each decision was taken in turn.
Altar_Boy 04-16-07, 07:23 PM	The other interesting thing about The Lady, it's worth pointing out, is that she's as enigmatic as the city itself; there's no clear reason why she makes the decisions she does, what she is, where her power comes from, and so on... she may control the city, or vice versa, but she is, more than anything, an unknown quantity. Indeed. I've even pondered if the Lady exists at all. Reading the works of Latin-American and Irish writers, the concept of the Lady is reminiscient of a mythical creature scapegoated for unimaginable things. Examples: 1) If a Son of Mercy becomes too corrupt, all his comrades need do is kill him and hide the evidence well enough, and rumour will spread that the Lady of Pain has dealt with him. 2) If a powerful trader is blown to smithereens in the night, it wasn't because he was trading in explosives. It was because he lead a cabal of terrorists udner guise of business. "Kill his minions," yell the masses, "and save us!" As the last heads are lobbed off, the random act of destruction is given purpose and closure. Of course, that's my Eberronian look at it.
yrogerg 04-16-07, 11:15 PM	Indeed. I've even pondered if the Lady exists at all. Reading the works of Latin-American and Irish writers, the concept of the Lady is reminiscient of a mythical creature scapegoated for unimaginable things. Examples: 1) If a Son of Mercy becomes too corrupt, all his comrades need do is kill him and hide the evidence well enough, and rumour will spread that the Lady of Pain has dealt with him. 2) If a powerful trader is blown to smithereens in the night, it wasn't because he was trading in explosives. It was because he lead a cabal of terrorists udner guise of business. "Kill his minions," yell the masses, "and save us!" As the last heads are lobbed off, the random act of destruction is given purpose and closure. Of course, that's my Eberronian look at it. That's actually a pretty cool thought, though I'd honestly rank it up there with "nine awakened squirrels armed with dancing swords and a high Disguise check" as far as plausibility is concerned.
The White Sorcerer 04-17-07, 06:15 AM	"nine awakened squirrels armed with dancing swords and a high Disguise check" Now that is a pretty cool thought.
Altar_Boy 04-17-07, 07:57 PM	Squirrels? C'mon man. Think big! DIRE squirrels! Or even better, skiurrids! :P FYI, I'm not very versed in the ins-and-outs of Planescape. I've just assumed that Lady of Pain is a shadowy figure whose existence cannot be readily verified. Kind of like the Lord of Blades. :lightbulb
The White Sorcerer 04-18-07, 05:08 PM	Squirrels? C'mon man. Think big! DIRE squirrels! It's not the size that matters, but how you use them.:D
yrogerg 06-21-07, 07:42 AM	Ah well, I guess there are fans like me in every setting. Planescapers who dislike the Lady, Forgotten Realms players that hate Mystra, Dark Sun fans that don't like the idea of a world-spanning Thri-Kreen empire, etc. Eberron fans who want to hook it into the Great Wheel and directly port in gods from FR...
XHereticX 06-21-07, 01:38 PM	Correction: FR's cosmology was NEVER explicitely defined, even in its original inception. The best analogy we have is Ed Greenwood saying it was vaguely like the Wood Between the Worlds (which is pretty similar to the Astral), and absolutely nothing else. So placing it in the Great Wheel did nothing to impede any previously established lore or theme, and Ed Greenwood himself said that he would have preferred if its cosmology had remained one and the same for continuity's sake (according to him, internal continuity and consistency being perhaps the most important aspect of world design). And it was officially linked to the rest of the Great Wheel multiverse before latter 2E; Myrkul lived in the Grey Waste, for example, and he was a 1E deity. Stumbles back into lurking shadows to read random Eberron-y things. If that is the case, Dan, what is up with this article? http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5325859&postcount=86
DragoonDarkfire 06-21-07, 02:24 PM	Eberron fans who want to hook it into the Great Wheel and directly port in gods from FR... wait... who the hell does that?
yrogerg 06-22-07, 12:45 AM	wait... who the hell does that? Wait, what was this thread about again? Where am I? What's going on? Damn kids get off my lawn!:fight!: