How common is psionics? [Archive] - Wizards Community

How common is psionics? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Jabberwocky888
12-22-07, 07:04 AM Hello, I would like to ask how common psionics actually is. Do the people recognise it on sight? Can they distinguish it from "normal" magic? What is the general attitute towards psionics in Khorvaire?
I GM a campaign which has just started in Eldeen Reaches and one of the PCs is a human psion of Breland origin. One of the crucial problems for the roleplaying is for me the reaction of the common folk when they encounter psionics - do they take the PC for "another friggin' spellcaster" or do they find "this kind of spellcasting kinda weird"?
Thanx!
Fabius Maximus
12-22-07, 08:06 AM It's not very common. It's used mostly by people from Riedra, and their communities are few and far between in Khorvaire.
Others develop their talents spontaniously.

I'd say that most people wouldn't notice a difference between arcane, divine and psionic spellcasting
Tiarn
12-22-07, 11:51 PM I'd say that most people wouldn't notice a difference between arcane, divine and psionic spellcasting

While I'd agree with most of what Fabius has said (psionics is uncommon, and usually from the continent of Sarlona) I would disagree with the above comment. In Eberron, magic is the technology. There are a number of low-level, magically talented people. So many, in fact, they had to create a new NPC class to represent it (the adept just wouldn't cut it alone, that's why we have the magewright)

With this level of magic suffusing society, and the fact that everyone in Khorvaire is entitled to free education, I'd say that the difference between arcane magic, divine magic and psionics is blatant to anyone that sees it.

Not to say those commoners would know what it is, just that it would be easy to tell the difference. ("Hey, that guy didn't wave his hands and mumble words or call out to his deity, what's he doing?! And how's he doing it?)
Edymnion
12-23-07, 09:21 PM Well, don't forget that you still need ranks in Spellcraft to identify a spell being cast. Most people don't put ranks into Spellcraft for their day to day lives, so most people can't tell the difference between arcane and divine, much less arcane and psionics.

As far as most people in Khovaire would be concerned, magic is magic, and someone that walks in, makes some noise, and shards of crystal shoot out of their hands, that person is a sorcerer, not a psion.

Keith's Dreaming Dark novels have a psion in them as an NPC, and the main crew (a fighter, a ranger [arguably], a rogue, and an artificer) has no clue what she's casting or that psionics even exist.

Almost all of the psionic weilders in Khovaire are going to be the Kalashtar and the Dreaming Dark, IMO, and they're fighting a shadow war, neither side wanting the population in general getting involved, or really even knowing that its happening in the first place.

Of couse, things would be different in Riedera, obviously, but thats Psionics Central, so thats a given. So, its sort of a double standard. Psionics would be common enough that it would not be hard to encounter them if you went looking for them, but uncommon enough that if you didn't go looking for them, and you don't have a kalashtar in the party, then you'll likely never see them at all.

It has a lot to do with the fact that, while Eberron is the most psionically integrated setting yet, it still has to treat the non-core rules as optional, so its set up so you can use it, but if you don't want to use it, you don't really lose that much.
Gurv
12-24-07, 07:08 AM I would tend to agree with Edymnion. Knowledge of psionics is as common as having ranks in Spellcraft or Knowledge (arcana). Any NPC who you wouldn't normally give those skill to won't know the difference, aside from kalashtar and such of course.

The flip side of that, of course, is that anyone who would have ranks in those skills will quickly realize that a psion is not using arcane magic. What they do know depends on the level of transparency you're using in your game. I allow Spellcraft/Psicraft to function in place of one another, with a penalty.
Jabberwocky888
12-24-07, 07:52 AM Alright, thank you, guys. You did really give me some general guidelines. The problem with this particular PC is that the player hasn't fleshed him out very well and I need to weave the PC into the general story somehow and/or create some subplots in order to give him his share of roleplaying. The psionic part is the most obvious solution but I wanted to know others' points of view. Once more: Thx!
Edymnion
12-24-07, 09:29 PM Something to keep in mind for the PC then.
Generally speaking, the only place a character is going to learn psionics is going to be from a Kalashtar, or an agent of the Dreaming Dark. Its a very common thing in Reidera, but virtually unheard of in Khovaire. Not impossible for there to be some other source of teachings, but beyond Wilder, I would require a good backstory to justify why someone would have disciplined psionic training and not have some kind of tie to the whole Dreaming Dark war.

Also, when using Psionics, the Dreaming Dark is almost assuredly going to become a part of your game, sooner or later. So, start looking up ways to include them later on. Early in the game, you won't need to worry about them, since they're a secret, but make notes of what kind of people oppose the party, or what kinds of plans the party screws up for people, and then when you get enough to work with, try to weave them together into a conspiracy orchestrated by the DD. It will make it look like you planned the entire thing perfectly from the very start, when you only tied things together there at the end.

A good example of this is if the player doesn't necessarily want to have a direct tie to the Kalashtar or Dreaming Dark, you can still work them into the story by being secret orchestrators of the original tutor, because they realize (probably through a psionic seer) that the PC will be important in the future, and needs to be prepared for their role.
Gurv
12-24-07, 10:44 PM Generally speaking, the only place a character is going to learn psionics is going to be from a Kalashtar, or an agent of the Dreaming Dark.
Certainly the most likely source, yes. But psionics is also more common amongst aberrations. Aberrations have their hands (tentacles) in a lot of places on Eberron. The daelkyr often work through their mind flayer operatives, and Cults of the Dragon Below.

It is entirely possible that psionics may have been learned or granted through those means. Maybe the PC woke up once day, strapped to a table, and escaped a subterranean laboratory only to learn he had strange new powers. Or maybe his mother and father were members of a cult where they learned psionic secrets and then learned how dangerous an organization they were really in; they fled the cult and used their skills to hide themselves and their child from pursuit.

Another alternative is this: maybe the psionic training is of quori origin, but not "current" quori. It seems especially fitting for a character of Brelish origins. Exploration of Xen'drik has surfaced all kinds of things. Perhaps the giants made some headway into understanding the strange powers of the quori who invaded them, and those ancient records are being studied by Morgrave University. A breakthrough of sorts, and now a small department of MU works to develop and understand these 'psionics'.
Jabberwocky888
12-25-07, 08:01 AM Wow, it must really be Christmas time - it's raining ideas for presents :-) Thank you a lot, gentlemen. I was planning on weaving the PC into the secret Kalashtar x Inspired conflict somehow and your ideas can make it much easier.

The Daelkyr option is very interesting as well, especially since the campaign takes place in the Eldeen Reaches and all other party members have strong ties to the place. I have already made aberrations a severe problem in the Reaches, which could integrate the Brelish PC nicely if he really has some (to him) unknown Daelkyr background.

Hm, I'll take my time thinking of it. I like your suggestions.
Ashlock
12-26-07, 01:47 PM Jabberwocky, use this Dragonshards article (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ebds/20060925a) as your guideline, directly from Keith. But essentially, psionics can show up anywhere and it needn't always come from a kalashtar. (Although that's still the most likely angle.)

Here's an idea, if you want to explain where your player's character gets his psionics from: his grandfather (or great-grandfather, or whoever) was once mind seed (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/mindSeed.htm)ed by either an agent of the Dreaming Dark, or perhaps even an illithid. That effectively spawns a new personality that's like a lower-level version of the psion who manifested the mind seed. Bam, instant psionic being that's still the same race it started as, and you can say that he passed down this psychic energy through his bloodline.

Just a thought. I'm a fan of psionics, and Eberron, and I like to see the two mix. :)
Edymnion
12-26-07, 01:54 PM you can say that he passed down this psychic energy through his bloodline.*tries very hard not to make an ectoplasm joke*

Will DC: 10

*rolls a 3*

A sunnovah...
Ashlock
12-26-07, 02:02 PM Hah. Well, why not, Edymnion? :P There's plenty of slime jokes to be had.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Jabberwocky888 12-22-07, 07:04 AM	Hello, I would like to ask how common psionics actually is. Do the people recognise it on sight? Can they distinguish it from "normal" magic? What is the general attitute towards psionics in Khorvaire? I GM a campaign which has just started in Eldeen Reaches and one of the PCs is a human psion of Breland origin. One of the crucial problems for the roleplaying is for me the reaction of the common folk when they encounter psionics - do they take the PC for "another friggin' spellcaster" or do they find "this kind of spellcasting kinda weird"? Thanx!
Fabius Maximus 12-22-07, 08:06 AM	It's not very common. It's used mostly by people from Riedra, and their communities are few and far between in Khorvaire. Others develop their talents spontaniously. I'd say that most people wouldn't notice a difference between arcane, divine and psionic spellcasting
Tiarn 12-22-07, 11:51 PM	I'd say that most people wouldn't notice a difference between arcane, divine and psionic spellcasting While I'd agree with most of what Fabius has said (psionics is uncommon, and usually from the continent of Sarlona) I would disagree with the above comment. In Eberron, magic is the technology. There are a number of low-level, magically talented people. So many, in fact, they had to create a new NPC class to represent it (the adept just wouldn't cut it alone, that's why we have the magewright) With this level of magic suffusing society, and the fact that everyone in Khorvaire is entitled to free education, I'd say that the difference between arcane magic, divine magic and psionics is blatant to anyone that sees it. Not to say those commoners would know what it is, just that it would be easy to tell the difference. ("Hey, that guy didn't wave his hands and mumble words or call out to his deity, what's he doing?! And how's he doing it?)
Edymnion 12-23-07, 09:21 PM	Well, don't forget that you still need ranks in Spellcraft to identify a spell being cast. Most people don't put ranks into Spellcraft for their day to day lives, so most people can't tell the difference between arcane and divine, much less arcane and psionics. As far as most people in Khovaire would be concerned, magic is magic, and someone that walks in, makes some noise, and shards of crystal shoot out of their hands, that person is a sorcerer, not a psion. Keith's Dreaming Dark novels have a psion in them as an NPC, and the main crew (a fighter, a ranger [arguably], a rogue, and an artificer) has no clue what she's casting or that psionics even exist. Almost all of the psionic weilders in Khovaire are going to be the Kalashtar and the Dreaming Dark, IMO, and they're fighting a shadow war, neither side wanting the population in general getting involved, or really even knowing that its happening in the first place. Of couse, things would be different in Riedera, obviously, but thats Psionics Central, so thats a given. So, its sort of a double standard. Psionics would be common enough that it would not be hard to encounter them if you went looking for them, but uncommon enough that if you didn't go looking for them, and you don't have a kalashtar in the party, then you'll likely never see them at all. It has a lot to do with the fact that, while Eberron is the most psionically integrated setting yet, it still has to treat the non-core rules as optional, so its set up so you can use it, but if you don't want to use it, you don't really lose that much.
Gurv 12-24-07, 07:08 AM	I would tend to agree with Edymnion. Knowledge of psionics is as common as having ranks in Spellcraft or Knowledge (arcana). Any NPC who you wouldn't normally give those skill to won't know the difference, aside from kalashtar and such of course. The flip side of that, of course, is that anyone who would have ranks in those skills will quickly realize that a psion is not using arcane magic. What they do know depends on the level of transparency you're using in your game. I allow Spellcraft/Psicraft to function in place of one another, with a penalty.
Jabberwocky888 12-24-07, 07:52 AM	Alright, thank you, guys. You did really give me some general guidelines. The problem with this particular PC is that the player hasn't fleshed him out very well and I need to weave the PC into the general story somehow and/or create some subplots in order to give him his share of roleplaying. The psionic part is the most obvious solution but I wanted to know others' points of view. Once more: Thx!
Edymnion 12-24-07, 09:29 PM	Something to keep in mind for the PC then. Generally speaking, the only place a character is going to learn psionics is going to be from a Kalashtar, or an agent of the Dreaming Dark. Its a very common thing in Reidera, but virtually unheard of in Khovaire. Not impossible for there to be some other source of teachings, but beyond Wilder, I would require a good backstory to justify why someone would have disciplined psionic training and not have some kind of tie to the whole Dreaming Dark war. Also, when using Psionics, the Dreaming Dark is almost assuredly going to become a part of your game, sooner or later. So, start looking up ways to include them later on. Early in the game, you won't need to worry about them, since they're a secret, but make notes of what kind of people oppose the party, or what kinds of plans the party screws up for people, and then when you get enough to work with, try to weave them together into a conspiracy orchestrated by the DD. It will make it look like you planned the entire thing perfectly from the very start, when you only tied things together there at the end. A good example of this is if the player doesn't necessarily want to have a direct tie to the Kalashtar or Dreaming Dark, you can still work them into the story by being secret orchestrators of the original tutor, because they realize (probably through a psionic seer) that the PC will be important in the future, and needs to be prepared for their role.
Gurv 12-24-07, 10:44 PM	Generally speaking, the only place a character is going to learn psionics is going to be from a Kalashtar, or an agent of the Dreaming Dark. Certainly the most likely source, yes. But psionics is also more common amongst aberrations. Aberrations have their hands (tentacles) in a lot of places on Eberron. The daelkyr often work through their mind flayer operatives, and Cults of the Dragon Below. It is entirely possible that psionics may have been learned or granted through those means. Maybe the PC woke up once day, strapped to a table, and escaped a subterranean laboratory only to learn he had strange new powers. Or maybe his mother and father were members of a cult where they learned psionic secrets and then learned how dangerous an organization they were really in; they fled the cult and used their skills to hide themselves and their child from pursuit. Another alternative is this: maybe the psionic training is of quori origin, but not "current" quori. It seems especially fitting for a character of Brelish origins. Exploration of Xen'drik has surfaced all kinds of things. Perhaps the giants made some headway into understanding the strange powers of the quori who invaded them, and those ancient records are being studied by Morgrave University. A breakthrough of sorts, and now a small department of MU works to develop and understand these 'psionics'.
Jabberwocky888 12-25-07, 08:01 AM	Wow, it must really be Christmas time - it's raining ideas for presents :-) Thank you a lot, gentlemen. I was planning on weaving the PC into the secret Kalashtar x Inspired conflict somehow and your ideas can make it much easier. The Daelkyr option is very interesting as well, especially since the campaign takes place in the Eldeen Reaches and all other party members have strong ties to the place. I have already made aberrations a severe problem in the Reaches, which could integrate the Brelish PC nicely if he really has some (to him) unknown Daelkyr background. Hm, I'll take my time thinking of it. I like your suggestions.
Ashlock 12-26-07, 01:47 PM	Jabberwocky, use this Dragonshards article (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ebds/20060925a) as your guideline, directly from Keith. But essentially, psionics can show up anywhere and it needn't always come from a kalashtar. (Although that's still the most likely angle.) Here's an idea, if you want to explain where your player's character gets his psionics from: his grandfather (or great-grandfather, or whoever) was once mind seed (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/mindSeed.htm)ed by either an agent of the Dreaming Dark, or perhaps even an illithid. That effectively spawns a new personality that's like a lower-level version of the psion who manifested the mind seed. Bam, instant psionic being that's still the same race it started as, and you can say that he passed down this psychic energy through his bloodline. Just a thought. I'm a fan of psionics, and Eberron, and I like to see the two mix. :)
Edymnion 12-26-07, 01:54 PM	you can say that he passed down this psychic energy through his bloodline.tries very hard not to make an ectoplasm joke Will DC: 10 rolls a 3 A sunnovah...
Ashlock 12-26-07, 02:02 PM	Hah. Well, why not, Edymnion? :P There's plenty of slime jokes to be had.