Post/Author/DateTime	Post
amethal 01-06-08, 03:21 PM	Apologies for such a basic question, but how does the afterlife work in Eberron? I had a look through my Eberron Campaign Setting, but I couldn't find the answer. Is that because its one of the mysteries of the setting?
pantoffelheld 01-06-08, 03:34 PM	Read the part about Dolurrh, the plane of Death. It's similar to the afterlife the Greek believed in, with the exception that the Keeper takes away a few souls now and then.
amethal 01-06-08, 03:39 PM	Thanks a lot, much appreciated.
Gurv 01-07-08, 07:49 AM	The entry on Dolurhh gives almost no information about what happens to the dead. I can't exactly remember where I've seen that information in print. But I can recap what I know pretty simply. Unless something prevents it (such as becoming undead, being trapped by magic, etc.), all souls travel to Dolurrh upon death. It doesn't matter what god one worships, nor what alignment one is. Once there, they slowly lose their memory and sense of self. Eventually, they merge with the plane itself, ceasing to exist. Naturally, there are different beliefs about this. Some, most notably among followers of the Sovereign Host, believe that the souls do not cease to exist- they're being drawn to the even higher level of existance where the gods are. Followers of the Silver Flame believe that the souls of the worthy worshipers join the flame itself. Although the people of Eberron know more about what happens to their souls when they die than we do, they ultimately suffer the same questions we do, because they don't know everything about it, or the purpose.
Edymnion 01-07-08, 08:52 AM	Which, while some people hate it, I love that aspect of Eberron. Dying sucks. There is no great reward, there is not "Well, I might die saving the party, but damn am I going to party in Celestia!". You have every reason in the world not to die, and absolutely no reason to die. Which means characters get played a whole lot less suicidally.
Ashlock 01-08-08, 09:20 AM	Although the people of Eberron know more about what happens to their souls when they die than we do, they ultimately suffer the same questions we do, because they don't know everything about it, or the purpose. That's my biggest appreciation. People in the world don't have all the answers. Yeah, high-level wizards and clerics might be able to tell you about the physical and magical properties of Dolurrh, but no one can tell you what your ultimate fate is when you go there. Is it the very end? Is it just a very long duration holding area? Can it bypassed? There's no solid answers, which allows different cultures or individuals to interpret. Which makes the world more like ours and therefore more believable. Faiths of Eberron has some good points of view on the matter.
Shady314 01-08-08, 10:11 AM	In our world: Life sucks. Then you die. <-Insert personal beliefs here. In Eberron: Life sucks. Then you die. Then you go to Dollurh which also sucks. Then you die again. <-Insert personal beliefs here.
Thaliost 01-10-08, 06:33 PM	I remember Faiths of Eberron talks a little differently, at least about the Sovereign Host part. Dolurrh is generally a place that no God can ever touch, but the Sovereign Vassels believe their Gods may someday extend their power to the plane, and that the true believers shall have their redemption. The entry on Dolurhh gives almost no information about what happens to the dead. I can't exactly remember where I've seen that information in print. But I can recap what I know pretty simply. Unless something prevents it (such as becoming undead, being trapped by magic, etc.), all souls travel to Dolurrh upon death. It doesn't matter what god one worships, nor what alignment one is. Once there, they slowly lose their memory and sense of self. Eventually, they merge with the plane itself, ceasing to exist. Naturally, there are different beliefs about this. Some, most notably among followers of the Sovereign Host, believe that the souls do not cease to exist- they're being drawn to the even higher level of existance where the gods are. Followers of the Silver Flame believe that the souls of the worthy worshipers join the flame itself. Although the people of Eberron know more about what happens to their souls when they die than we do, they ultimately suffer the same questions we do, because they don't know everything about it, or the purpose.
Gurv 01-10-08, 09:51 PM	I remember Faiths of Eberron talks a little differently, at least about the Sovereign Host part. Dolurrh is generally a place that no God can ever touch, but the Sovereign Vassels believe their Gods may someday extend their power to the plane, and that the true believers shall have their redemption. That's another variation. But the basic idea remains the same. The facts are that everyone who dies goes to Dolurrh, unless something else prevents it. What happens then, if anything, is unknown. There are likely dozens of beliefs, but nothing confirmed.
Fighter_Mage_Thief 01-11-08, 01:45 PM	In the third book of Mr. Baker's Dreaming Dark novels, the drow monk, I forget her name as fantasy names can be infernally difficult to recall, explains that when her people pass on, they travel to Lamannia, the Twilight Forest, for judgement. One of the natives of the plane that the party converses with confirms her story. If they pass their test then, again if can recall correctly, they travel to Thelanis, the Faerie Court, as their final resting ground. I know that Keith said not to take is words as scripture, but he is the the Oppenheimer of the campaign setting. Thoughts?
Hellcow 01-12-08, 12:03 AM	I know that Keith said not to take is words as scripture, but he is the the Oppenheimer of the campaign setting. Of course, the key point there is that you have two completely different interpretations of the afterlife in that book, and there's absolutely no assurance that either of them is correct. Lei presents the standard "You go to Dolurrh and fade away" view. Xu'sasar says "That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard. Life is preparation for the big test that comes afterwards." Lei says "That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard." At the end of the day, all this really tells you is that no one knows. And when it comes to a denizen of the plane backing up the story, the next thing you have to ask yourself is how far you trust the inhabitants of Thelanis... In general, Shady314's post covers it. Few advanced societies dispute the fact that souls go to Dolurrh after death, because it is possible to go to Dolurrh and get them back if you act quickly (or use magic such as raise dead). However, once the "fading" effect takes hold, everything is open to debate.
Nived 01-12-08, 12:20 AM	I'm curious about the monsters does EVERYTHING that dies go to Dolurrh? Only intelligent ones? Do squirrels? What about Displacer Beasts, they can talk. Chimera? Giants? Dragons?
Hellcow 01-12-08, 12:53 AM	I'm curious about the monsters does EVERYTHING that dies go to Dolurrh? Only intelligent ones? Do squirrels? What about Displacer Beasts, they can talk. Chimera? Giants? Dragons? I'd personally say that if it can be raised with raise dead, then yes - Dolurrh is essentially the holding tank for souls, and it's the soul that makes raising possible. Thus, you have to decide if squirrels can be raised (bear in mind that in order to be raised, the spirit has to want to be raised; I could therefore see the argument that a creature of animal intelligence is incapable of understanding the concepts involved and can't be raised). Speaking specifically of dragons, per Dragons of Eberron, the dragons do believe that draconic souls go to Dolurrh unless they ascend to become Sovereigns. Another draconic attempt to avoid Dolurrh is seen in Gates of Night. However, just because a multitude of creatures go to Dolurrh doesn't mean that they all can be found in the same place within the plane. Dolurrh isn't just a prison planet where souls get dumped at random; it's another plane of existence, and its geography may be disorienting to mortals. All dogs may go to Dolurrh, but Doggie Dollurh may be quite different than the part where you will go.
Nived 01-12-08, 02:43 PM	Well now if I ever run a game where they plane shift into a random portion of Dolurrh they're going to be knee deep in squirrels.
Hellcow 01-12-08, 03:22 PM	Well now if I ever run a game where they plane shift into a random portion of Dolurrh they're going to be knee deep in squirrels. Setting aside Dolurrh for a moment... do dogs dream? If so, you've also got doggie Dal Quor to consider. In which case the Dreaming Dark could be messing with your dog right now!
ChaoticGood 01-12-08, 03:40 PM	Well now if I ever run a game where they plane shift into a random portion of Dolurrh they're going to be knee deep in squirrels. Brilliant! :bow: Setting aside Dolurrh for a moment... do dogs dream? If so, you've also got doggie Dal Quor to consider. In which case the Dreaming Dark could be messing with your dog right now! No wonder sleeping dogs twitch like they're running, then wake up and chase their own tails... You'd go crazy pretty quickly too, if you saw a Quori everytime you closed your eyes!
Just another user 01-13-08, 08:23 AM	I remember Faiths of Eberron talks a little differently, at least about the Sovereign Host part. Dolurrh is generally a place that no God can ever touch, but the Sovereign Vassels believe their Gods may someday extend their power to the plane, and that the true believers shall have their redemption. Yees, but Faiths of Eberron is wrote from the point of view of the believers, it is say so in the introductin IIRC. It is not The Truth, it is what each religion believe to be the truth, and that is why it is great. Note that in Eberron you have finally a good reason why somebody would want to turn into a lich, which I thought never made much sense in standard D&D.
Just another user 01-13-08, 08:32 AM	Of course, the key point there is that you have two completely different interpretations of the afterlife in that book, and there's absolutely no assurance that either of them is correct. Lei presents the standard "You go to Dolurrh and fade away" view. Xu'sasar says "That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard. Life is preparation for the big test that comes afterwards." Lei says "That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard." At the end of the day, all this really tells you is that no one knows. And when it comes to a denizen of the plane backing up the story, the next thing you have to ask yourself is how far you trust the inhabitants of Thelanis... Never trust feys, they are amoral, sneaky bastards, always ready to kidnap your babies and replace them with one of theirs or pull a prank on you without provocation, heck, the "you go to thelanis after you die" is probably their idea of a pratical joke on the drows.:)
Siran Dunmorgan 01-13-08, 01:46 PM	Why do people always want simple answers to these questions? :) "What happens when I die?" Doesn't have a simple answer, and many of the answers aren't as contradictory as they might at first seem. With respect to the relationship of the afterlife to the planes, however, there are some things that we can determine, using the notion that the planes are states of mind or being. Let's start with Dolurrh: Dolurrh is Death. If something dies, a token of that death—a shade—appears in Dolurrh, because that's what Dolurrh is. Removing that token from Dolurrh has the effect of raising the character because it's no longer a part of Death. Assuming that hasn't happened, however, we still have a corpse on Eberron: so there's still a token of that character on the plane of Reality. Now, instead of being raised, the character is instead converted to a lich, vampire, necropolitan, or some similar sentient undead. They still have all of the memories, skills, feats, et al. that they did when they were alive. However, being dead, they still have a token of that death on Dolurrh. So we can safely assert that the shade that appears in Dolurrh is not the fundamental seat of self-identity, whether or not it constitutes a "soul". Now, let's assume our example character has become a necropolitan with a high degree of magical capability. They're undead, so they don't sleep, and many people use this as evidence that they have no connection to Dal Quor. Unfortunately for this argument, they can still cast dream and similar spells. In other words, they don't sleep, but they also haven't lost their connection to Dal Quor. Now, so far, I count four aspects of the self in play here: the physical body, the self-identity that animates it, the shade in Dolurrh, and the dream-self in Dal Quor. There's no obvious reason to stop there, since we also have spells like astral projection, and no obvious reason to believe that the dream-self and the astral body are the same thing—which would give us five aspects of the self without even trying hard, all of which have a pretty decent claim to being the character. Thus, the self in Eberron is, as far as I can tell, a finely choreographed ballet, with many dancers. Is there a "spirit"—as distinct from a "soul" or "shade"—that joins with the Flame, if one happens to be devoted to that faith, or appearing in Thelanis, if one is an elf? I don't know. But I do know that it's not as simple as "dead people go to Dolurrh." —Siran Dunmorgan P. S. This is my first post—and very nearly my first time on the boards—in over a year. There are some decent real-world reasons for that, and it's likely I'll have to drop off suddenly again; but I have about a two-week window—starting now—in which I'm hoping to catch up as much as I can. I still haven't read anything more recent than Secrets of Sarlona, and I'm reeling from the news—which I know is not news to the lot of you—of 4e, so please bear with me if I've missed something. It's good to be back, if only for a little while. :D P.P.S. I'd always postulated that shades in Dolurrh appear to visitors there in approximately the shape of the observer, so that the shade of a squirrel would appear roughly humanoid to a humanoid visitor, and, conversely, the shade of a human would appear squirrel-like to a living squirrel visiting the plane. Woe to the adventuring party who brings the wrong shade out of Dolurrh: "Death really changed him: I don't remember the wizard liking nuts quite that much..." ;)
Jabberwocky888 01-13-08, 05:56 PM	No wonder sleeping dogs twitch like they're running, then wake up and chase their own tails... You'd go crazy pretty quickly too, if you saw a Quori everytime you closed your eyes! Which, in turn, may be the reason why cats slumber so often. They like their Quori friends! Big Bad Dreaming Dark Overlord: Would you play with me, kitty? Kitty: PURRhaps...