How does the Blood of Vol feel about "adventurer necromancers?" [Archive] - Wizards Community

How does the Blood of Vol feel about "adventurer necromancers?" [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
JulesCARV
04-29-07, 02:16 PM The Blood of Vol approves of undead-creation style necromancy in certain circumstances.

They approve of creating sentient undead from volunteers who agree to give up true life and the immortality of their blood to serve the Blood of Vol. They approved of creating the Karrnathi undead while Karrnath and the Blood of Vol still worked together.

What about the kinds of undead creation most common among adventurers, though?

Let's say you're an adventuring cleric of the Blood of Vol. Your party fights, and successfully kills, a dolgaunt. You get out your ol' onyx bag and get ready to reanimate the dolgaunt as your undead minion.

How does the establishment of the Blood of Vol feel about this?

On one hand, the Blood of Vol is an evil religion, so it's unlikely that they have some notion of universal benevolence that means they'd view those nasty dolgaunts as being entitled to the dignity of a peaceful grave. The Blood of Vol regards undeath as basically bad thing to happen to you, but you can volunteer for it and make a heroic sacrifice. However, if a dolgaunt is your enemy -- who you just killed -- then do you really need its consent? A volunteer for undeath gives his life and body to the church. A volunteer who tithes gives his money to the church. It's fairly accepted that you can take a dolgaunt's money after killing him. Why not take his body too?

On the other hand, nothing is really mentioned about this the Blood of Vol accepting "adventurer necromancy." The Blood of Vol may regard undeath as a basically bad thing, but they nonetheless regard it as surrounded with sacred meaning, ritual, and religious significance. Typical adventurer-necromancers animate dead seeing them as nothing but bodies to be driven in front of the "important" people of the party to draw attacks, block charges against the backliners, etc. That doesn't seem to be in line with the Blood of Vol's theology.

Thoughts?
Rerecros
04-29-07, 02:48 PM http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20040912b&page=1

The case of the cadaver collector clearly shows that Karrnath willingly used corpses not only of Karrnathians, but those of any race who fell in the great war, and it of corse fell on the blood of vol clerics to raise them as undead.

They are a Lawful evil organization, they are willing to do any thing as long as they are backed by some notion of morality, in this case nationalism.

The Blood of Vol regards undeath as basically bad thing to happen to you

I dissagree, they seem to regard undeath as a state of divinity, raising a dolgaunt as a skeleton turns it into a divine creature, and should be greatful for it's improved status.
Cloud Divider
04-29-07, 03:43 PM Of course, one complication is that you're talking about a dolgaunt, rather than a human, elf, or other "conventional" race.

It's not difficult to believe that Vol and the Dalkyr are enemies (or at least very much cross-purposes), in a fashion that's rather different from the Five Nations during the Last War. For most of Khorvaire, I think the nasty Daelkyr-spawned things from Khyber are unnatural, a sort of affront to the "natural order" of Eberron...

If animating a dolgaunt is to make it divine, I can very easily see that as being something Vol would nominally oppose... Raising it as nonsentient, that I might believe (as it's only essentially a tool, a lesser golem made of dead flesh and bone)...but changing it into a sentient undead may be something else entirely.
ornitholestes
04-29-07, 04:25 PM I would think that, given the blood of Vol believe that once your dead thats it, they wouldn't put much emphasis on the body after death. To them, it is now an inert lifeless hollow shell - the soul is gone for good so who cares what happens to the body? From there perspective, I would think, the fate of the body after death is irrelevant to the now gone-forever person who once inhabited it.
Yorath_theWolf
04-30-07, 01:33 PM [QUOTE=Rerecros;12248721I dissagree, they seem to regard undeath as a state of divinity, raising a dolgaunt as a skeleton turns it into a divine creature, and should be greatful for it's improved status.[/QUOTE]

no, what's been persented to date isn't so much undeath being a divine state as... well martyrs is closer in many way. the Religion is all about defying the evil of the Soviern Host and elevateing oneself to Divinity. as most mere mortals just don't have what it takes to save everyone from Dolurrh and that dead and wicked afterlife, someone who choses undeath is stepping up and sacraficeing their shot at divinity to properly wage that war. hmmm, so I guess the 'willing' undead that serve the Blood of Vol church would be seen as Saints I guess to make a contemporary comparison.
Nuclear_Buddha
04-30-07, 05:23 PM The Blood of Vol may regard undeath as a basically bad thing, but they nonetheless regard it as surrounded with sacred meaning, ritual, and religious significance. Typical adventurer-necromancers animate dead seeing them as nothing but bodies to be driven in front of the "important" people of the party to draw attacks, block charges against the backliners, etc. That doesn't seem to be in line with the Blood of Vol's theology.

Thoughts?

They probably feel the same way about it as Catholics do about other people eating a sandwich and having a glass of Bordeaux. Sure, eating bread and drinking wine is superficially similar to the sacrament of communion, but without the ritual and faith involved it's nothing at all. "Adventurer necromancy" serves a purpose, just like eating. It's not the fault of unbelievers that it doesn't share the higher meaning that such martyrdom has to the faithful of the Blood of Vol.
Edymnion
04-30-07, 09:03 PM I would think that, given the blood of Vol believe that once your dead thats it, they wouldn't put much emphasis on the body after death. To them, it is now an inert lifeless hollow shell - the soul is gone for good so who cares what happens to the body? From there perspective, I would think, the fate of the body after death is irrelevant to the now gone-forever person who once inhabited it.Bingo, thats my interpretation as well. The power is in life, in the blood, not the body itself. Once the person is dead, their life force and everything that made them who they were is gone.

Its like... a christmas present. Once you take it out of the box, the box has no further use. Most people just throw it away, some people save the box in a closet (maybe the gift was a collector's item, for example), some people re-use the box for something else.

Throwing the box away is burial. Saving the box in the closet is more akin to preserving the bodies in a museluem, while reusing the box is animating the body as undead.

Purely practical.
Just because your friend is gone doesn't mean they have nothing left to contribute. They left you their box, you might as well put it to use.
Romulus LoneWolf
05-02-07, 08:27 PM The way I see it, so long as the adventuring necromancer can justify it as a way of "furthering the cause", it should be acceptable.
Cifer
05-03-07, 08:58 AM The others have already said it: Willingly becoming a (most probably sentient) undead is regarded as a great sacrifice (as long as you use your status to fight Death and the Sovereigns). However, the Volites don't really care about others and I can't really see them believing shambling zombies to be great martyrs - that would be simply using a former enemy against other enemies, which sounds quite acceptable to me.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
JulesCARV 04-29-07, 02:16 PM	The Blood of Vol approves of undead-creation style necromancy in certain circumstances. They approve of creating sentient undead from volunteers who agree to give up true life and the immortality of their blood to serve the Blood of Vol. They approved of creating the Karrnathi undead while Karrnath and the Blood of Vol still worked together. What about the kinds of undead creation most common among adventurers, though? Let's say you're an adventuring cleric of the Blood of Vol. Your party fights, and successfully kills, a dolgaunt. You get out your ol' onyx bag and get ready to reanimate the dolgaunt as your undead minion. How does the establishment of the Blood of Vol feel about this? On one hand, the Blood of Vol is an evil religion, so it's unlikely that they have some notion of universal benevolence that means they'd view those nasty dolgaunts as being entitled to the dignity of a peaceful grave. The Blood of Vol regards undeath as basically bad thing to happen to you, but you can volunteer for it and make a heroic sacrifice. However, if a dolgaunt is your enemy -- who you just killed -- then do you really need its consent? A volunteer for undeath gives his life and body to the church. A volunteer who tithes gives his money to the church. It's fairly accepted that you can take a dolgaunt's money after killing him. Why not take his body too? On the other hand, nothing is really mentioned about this the Blood of Vol accepting "adventurer necromancy." The Blood of Vol may regard undeath as a basically bad thing, but they nonetheless regard it as surrounded with sacred meaning, ritual, and religious significance. Typical adventurer-necromancers animate dead seeing them as nothing but bodies to be driven in front of the "important" people of the party to draw attacks, block charges against the backliners, etc. That doesn't seem to be in line with the Blood of Vol's theology. Thoughts?
Rerecros 04-29-07, 02:48 PM	http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20040912b&page=1 The case of the cadaver collector clearly shows that Karrnath willingly used corpses not only of Karrnathians, but those of any race who fell in the great war, and it of corse fell on the blood of vol clerics to raise them as undead. They are a Lawful evil organization, they are willing to do any thing as long as they are backed by some notion of morality, in this case nationalism. The Blood of Vol regards undeath as basically bad thing to happen to you I dissagree, they seem to regard undeath as a state of divinity, raising a dolgaunt as a skeleton turns it into a divine creature, and should be greatful for it's improved status.
Cloud Divider 04-29-07, 03:43 PM	Of course, one complication is that you're talking about a dolgaunt, rather than a human, elf, or other "conventional" race. It's not difficult to believe that Vol and the Dalkyr are enemies (or at least very much cross-purposes), in a fashion that's rather different from the Five Nations during the Last War. For most of Khorvaire, I think the nasty Daelkyr-spawned things from Khyber are unnatural, a sort of affront to the "natural order" of Eberron... If animating a dolgaunt is to make it divine, I can very easily see that as being something Vol would nominally oppose... Raising it as nonsentient, that I might believe (as it's only essentially a tool, a lesser golem made of dead flesh and bone)...but changing it into a sentient undead may be something else entirely.
ornitholestes 04-29-07, 04:25 PM	I would think that, given the blood of Vol believe that once your dead thats it, they wouldn't put much emphasis on the body after death. To them, it is now an inert lifeless hollow shell - the soul is gone for good so who cares what happens to the body? From there perspective, I would think, the fate of the body after death is irrelevant to the now gone-forever person who once inhabited it.
Yorath_theWolf 04-30-07, 01:33 PM	[QUOTE=Rerecros;12248721I dissagree, they seem to regard undeath as a state of divinity, raising a dolgaunt as a skeleton turns it into a divine creature, and should be greatful for it's improved status.[/QUOTE] no, what's been persented to date isn't so much undeath being a divine state as... well martyrs is closer in many way. the Religion is all about defying the evil of the Soviern Host and elevateing oneself to Divinity. as most mere mortals just don't have what it takes to save everyone from Dolurrh and that dead and wicked afterlife, someone who choses undeath is stepping up and sacraficeing their shot at divinity to properly wage that war. hmmm, so I guess the 'willing' undead that serve the Blood of Vol church would be seen as Saints I guess to make a contemporary comparison.
Nuclear_Buddha 04-30-07, 05:23 PM	The Blood of Vol may regard undeath as a basically bad thing, but they nonetheless regard it as surrounded with sacred meaning, ritual, and religious significance. Typical adventurer-necromancers animate dead seeing them as nothing but bodies to be driven in front of the "important" people of the party to draw attacks, block charges against the backliners, etc. That doesn't seem to be in line with the Blood of Vol's theology. Thoughts? They probably feel the same way about it as Catholics do about other people eating a sandwich and having a glass of Bordeaux. Sure, eating bread and drinking wine is superficially similar to the sacrament of communion, but without the ritual and faith involved it's nothing at all. "Adventurer necromancy" serves a purpose, just like eating. It's not the fault of unbelievers that it doesn't share the higher meaning that such martyrdom has to the faithful of the Blood of Vol.
Edymnion 04-30-07, 09:03 PM	I would think that, given the blood of Vol believe that once your dead thats it, they wouldn't put much emphasis on the body after death. To them, it is now an inert lifeless hollow shell - the soul is gone for good so who cares what happens to the body? From there perspective, I would think, the fate of the body after death is irrelevant to the now gone-forever person who once inhabited it.Bingo, thats my interpretation as well. The power is in life, in the blood, not the body itself. Once the person is dead, their life force and everything that made them who they were is gone. Its like... a christmas present. Once you take it out of the box, the box has no further use. Most people just throw it away, some people save the box in a closet (maybe the gift was a collector's item, for example), some people re-use the box for something else. Throwing the box away is burial. Saving the box in the closet is more akin to preserving the bodies in a museluem, while reusing the box is animating the body as undead. Purely practical. Just because your friend is gone doesn't mean they have nothing left to contribute. They left you their box, you might as well put it to use.
Romulus LoneWolf 05-02-07, 08:27 PM	The way I see it, so long as the adventuring necromancer can justify it as a way of "furthering the cause", it should be acceptable.
Cifer 05-03-07, 08:58 AM	The others have already said it: Willingly becoming a (most probably sentient) undead is regarded as a great sacrifice (as long as you use your status to fight Death and the Sovereigns). However, the Volites don't really care about others and I can't really see them believing shambling zombies to be great martyrs - that would be simply using a former enemy against other enemies, which sounds quite acceptable to me.