Post/Author/DateTime	Post
CannibalSmith 04-29-07, 08:06 AM	I'm shocked to find out that conductor stones have no price. Now how do I, as a player, build my own lightning rail line? Any guesses on the price and why exactly that much? Also I wonder if regular rails exist in Eberron...
Cifer 04-29-07, 08:45 AM	Also I wonder if regular rails exist in Eberron... I guess so, although they won't be used for trains or stuff like that. Lorries for mining, however, would probably use rails since they make pushing stuff out of your mine much easier.
Bluebrush 04-29-07, 08:55 AM	Conductor stones are probably individually very cheap, since there's an awful lot of Khorvaire for them to cover. Also note that they're likely magically reactive rather than magical in themselves. This prevents rogue artificers from draining XP from them and causing problems.
Cifer 04-29-07, 10:16 AM	Also note that they're likely magically reactive rather than magical in themselves. This prevents rogue artificers from draining XP from them and causing problems. I wouldn't be too sure about this. There is talk that some of the stones in the Mournland have been carried off, which likely indicates there must be some use for them beside carrying the lightning rail. Having them provide XP for an artificer sounds perfectly logical, especially when you have the LoBster and his buddies around.
CannibalSmith 04-29-07, 10:18 AM	Lorries for mining, however, would probably use rails since they make pushing stuff out of your mine much easier. That's exactly what I want to use conductor stones for. This prevents rogue artificers from draining XP from them and causing problems. Well, now I'll have to steal them because I can't make or buy them.
Hideous Phidias 04-29-07, 11:32 AM	So you want Housr Or to kill or jail your character. If you think about it the whole build your oun lightning rail will never work. First you need the train itself before you even worry about the stones. One if just anyone could build one then others would have and then house Orien would loose their monoply on it. This is one of the magic technoligies like the Cannith creaton forges or Lyrander airships that only the Houses know how to build and work. Two it took years, (not a few but many),to develop the lightning rail by the houses so to do so yourself means no adventuring for you. You could try to steal the plans but no one ever has before and that would **** of all the other houses. think about it you stole from one house what is going stop you from doingit to others. The houses stick togethers on things like this to protect their power base. And think of it as some as you finish your own train then the everyone knows who stole the plans and the elven assassins start showing up and we now have two diferrent house of elves to try and kill you. Three you could try buy one if you had the money but the House Orien would most likely not sell you one because again if others have then they loose money and you would mess up the other trains running on the lines. Think of it your train their train meet some where with a big boom. Now for your plan for stealing the stones. This is another smart plan to get yourself killed or jailed. Stealing stone from anywhere and placing them will **** of the house because again you stepping on their feet. Stealing stones from the mournland is a good way to get you killed just by the stuff hanging around there, living spells, LoB and his crew, and any other monster your DM wanted to try but never found a place for. As for stealing them from other lines outside the mounland will how long do you think it will before House Orien notices. All th lines are traveled daily maybe even up to four times a day. first train that flys of the line due to missing stone will set of the hunt. First they will send iinquisitors to look the seen over then a diviner to fin who took the stone or where it is now. Then an army comes knocking at your door looking for payback for all the people you just killed. Here is what you do if you want your own train join the House Orien in some way marrage works or are human the take the mark adn be along lost son. Then with the money you have, you can have them make a train and work it into the lines. Or you could pay the house to lay a new line for you and have runs on it, just have you DM come up with a cost for you. I would say a million or two would work.
CannibalSmith 04-29-07, 11:44 AM	I was being sarcastic. It's the only way I can express my outrage and not get mods on my head. I would never actually steal conductor stones. And like I said, I'm going to use them in mines. So they won't compete with the transport business of the houses.
Hideous Phidias 04-29-07, 11:53 AM	A road is a road and a Lightning rail is a lightning rail. And I don't know something about paying that much for a simple mine seems like it would make the mine not worth it. If I were you I would look at the earth sleds and Tumblers out of MAggic of Eberron.
CannibalSmith 04-29-07, 11:55 AM	Paying that much? How much?
Hideous Phidias 04-29-07, 12:05 PM	I would think the train would cost you as much as an airship if not a little more so let's say 120000 fro the train. The stones are magic with elements in them so maybe 2000 to 4000 per stone and a stone at every ten feet. you do the math. So what are you looking to mine and where?
Hideous Phidias 04-29-07, 12:10 PM	I personly would look in to Karrnath and spend my money on undead slaves and warforged endentured servrnts to do the mining. The undead slaves are abit against the law but if you are out of Karrnath the problems get less because less people will be looking in to your operation.
CannibalSmith 04-29-07, 12:19 PM	The price of a lightning rail engine is, in fact, stated as 58,000 gold pieces. But I don't need that much "horsepower". I hope unseen servants will be enough to push lightning wagons. Byeshk. And my alignment is neutral good. So no cheap labor.
Hideous Phidias 04-29-07, 12:29 PM	Why no cheap labor. If I remeber right Byeshk is mined mostly in Droaam. and that is a very dangeress place. I think a good person would want to not waste lives of miners. Undead miners dying on mass would not make you a bad person by having living miners dye on mass may. Unseen servrent has a strength of 2 lift 20pds drag 100pds and a speed od 15ft. They can not mine the highest they can get on a DC of a skill check is 10.
Hideous Phidias 04-29-07, 12:34 PM	You could try large constructs ment for mining or large numbers of Homuclusi to do the mining. I would buy out the debts of many of the warforged in Karrnath and Thrane and have them do some of the work until you feel they have payed you back. It would get them out of slavery faster maybe.
CannibalSmith 04-29-07, 12:37 PM	I would buy out the debts of many of the warforged in Karrnath and Thrane and have them do some of the work until you feel they have payed you back. Now, there's an idea. Thank you.
Bodger 04-29-07, 01:29 PM	It might be easier for you to have a carsystem made with a bound earth elemental (like the sled and carriages in the books and modules). Your cavern floor does not even need a rail system with that type of elemental since it melds with the ground as it moves along. The speed may not be great but the carry capacity and cheaper construction would be the benefit of said system. Bodger Future Articifer for the OOTS.
CannibalSmith 04-29-07, 01:41 PM	This thread has gone horribly off topic. :shifty:
Bluebrush 04-29-07, 06:42 PM	I wouldn't be too sure about this. There is talk that some of the stones in the Mournland have been carried off, which likely indicates there must be some use for them beside carrying the lightning rail.That or: -The inhabitants want to derail Orien rail hoppers to loot them or simply keep them from sticking their nose into their habitats. -Just because you or I know it doesn't mean an unfamiliar artificer does. -The Mournland just likes to make things difficult for everyone. -While not usable as fonts of XP, there are other obscure uses. -Or something more nefarious?
Cifer 05-03-07, 08:51 AM	@Cannibal The problem with your idea is that you need a certain amount of weight on the stones - everything lighter than a full lightning rail coach has a good chance of derailing. For the single stones, I'd put them somewhere around 300 per stone - enough to be hideously expensive for everyone but the united kingdom of Galifar, but not enough to cripple them. This price assumes that Cannith is mass-producing them, of course.
Nevarre 05-04-07, 07:23 PM	I've not given this a great amount of thought, but surely the stones would have to be very cheap to produce (because a LOAD are needed) and if they are worth much people will steal them? Perhaps to stop theft they are protected.. ("ooh, look a shiny blue pyramid! I wonder what-" BZZZZZZZZ *flop*) It's the same with everlasting lanterns that light Sharn. Sure, they are easy to producer but not everyone is a mage/artificer, so what stops the location population from stealing them?
Bluebrush 05-04-07, 09:24 PM	It's the same with everlasting lanterns that light Sharn. Sure, they are easy to producer but not everyone is a mage/artificer, so what stops the location population from stealing them?The watch. That and the fact that the populus can just go out and buy light sources, mundane or otherwise. Though in the lower wards, this kind of breaks down and there's snapped-off lamps everywhere.
Lord Splendor 05-05-07, 12:28 AM	Here’s what we did in my game. First off we made a new spell called Repel Conductor Stone. The spell was 3rd level and repelled any conductor stone that came within 10’ of it. We used the 3.0 rule for crafting traps (500 gp & 20 xp per caster level) for making a continuous trap. So that put us at 2500 gp and 100 xp. Still quite expensive. But you could say it takes a specific circumstance for it to activate (Being within 10’ of another conductor stone) thus reducing it by 30%. 1750 and 70 xp. Extraordinary Artisan reduces GP cost by 25%. 1313 gp 53 xp (if it reduces the base price it reduces the GP cost). Legendary Artisan reduces XP cost by 25%. 1313 gp and 40 xp. Now Mind you this is for making one by yourself. Not a house making one. If a house was making one I would expect it to cost almost nothing. They most likely have a Schema that just creates them. I would guess costing NO XP and maybe a 100-300gp for base materials. Like the housing and a small dragonshard as a focus. We made it cost NO Xp so artificers wouldn’t drain them. Best bet to get them; go into the mournlands and pick some up. Mind you they repel each other so it may be hard to get more them a couple at a time.
CannibalSmith 05-05-07, 02:07 AM	Mind you they repel each other so it may be hard to get more them a couple at a time. LOL, right! I can imagine, how they're mass transported - by herding them! You form a line and each of you carries a conductor stone. You place all other stones on the ground and move towards them. They roll away from you. :D
Phalo 05-06-07, 01:29 PM	I f you want it for a mining application would it not be cheaper to make mining carts and enchant them with tensors floating disk (can't remeber if thats the right spell name) You would get 100 lbs per level of caster level make the spell continuous and carry on. As far as miners go if you got the money/xp to create things go for the automatons in MM2. I think one of those was built for mining.
Edymnion 05-06-07, 01:35 PM	I'm shocked to find out that conductor stones have no price. Now how do I, as a player, build my own lightning rail line?You don't.That's exactly what I want to use conductor stones for.Why? You do realize that the conductor stones have *NOTHING* to do with the propulsion or levitation of the lightning rail, right? That *ALL* of that is purely the bound elemental. On their own, the stones are essentially worthless because they don't do anything. The price of a lightning rail engine is, in fact, stated as 58,000 gold pieces. But I don't need that much "horsepower". I hope unseen servants will be enough to push lightning wagons.Again, I believe you miss the point. The conductor stones don't move anything, they don't make it easier to move anything, they are nothing more than a laid out path for the elemental to follow. The reason the rail engine is so bloody expensive is the bound elemental that powers it, and you absolutely have to have one of those to make the system work, no way around it. Conductor stones are nothing more than pavement. If you don't have a car with an engine in it, that pavement isn't going to do you one bit of good.
CannibalSmith 05-06-07, 02:12 PM	You do realize that the conductor stones have *NOTHING* to do with the propulsion or levitation of the lightning rail, right? [..] The conductor stones don't move anything, they don't make it easier to move anything, they are nothing more than a laid out path for the elemental to follow. Eberron Campaign Setting page 271 does not agree with you. I can use Tenser's Floating Disks or other methods, but I'm in Eberron! What about the flavor!
Hellcow 05-06-07, 05:24 PM	Conductor stones are probably individually very cheap, since there's an awful lot of Khorvaire for them to cover. Also note that they're likely magically reactive rather than magical in themselves. This prevents rogue artificers from draining XP from them and causing problems. I agree with both sentiments. I believe that the primary motive power comes from the rail coach, not the stone. The stone is a specially treated material that is necessary for the functioning of the rail, but it isn't especially valuable in its own right. Probably around the same cost as marble - not as cheap as wood, but not insanely expensive. (And yes, I realize that this is not entirely in line with some source material, but I just don't feel that it's logical for the stones to be individually charged magic items, for many reasons.)
CannibalSmith 05-06-07, 05:58 PM	Probably around the same cost as marble - not as cheap as wood, but not insanely expensive. So, uh, how much for the marbles? :) And yes, I realize that this is not entirely in line with some source material, but I just don't feel that it's logical for the stones to be individually charged magic items, for many reasons. Why the fuss? Not like it changes anything. They have two properties: they glow, and they repel from each other. Right?
Hellcow 05-06-07, 07:07 PM	Double post!
Hellcow 05-06-07, 07:14 PM	So, uh, how much for the marbles? :) Marble, like the stone. So with that much in mind, how much does your DM charge for a chunk of granite or basalt? I don't know of an official source that talks about cost of basic stone, so it's really a DM opinion. With that said... I don't believe that conductor stones are inherently magic items of considerable power. I believe that they are stones prepared using special techniques that allow the stone to interact with the coach - that coach and stone combine together to produce the effect, with neither being able to operate alone, and with the bulk of the enchantment resting in the coach. But with that said, the stones are prepared using special techniques - and these techniques are known only to House Orien. Eberron is based on the principle that arcane magic is a form of science, that it obeys certain laws and can be predicted and controlled. And like other forms of science, magical innovation takes time and inspiration. it took Orien centuries to produce the lightning rail. It's taken Lyrandar centuries more to produce the airship. If you are an Orien heir, you may have access to the techniques required. You may know what sort of stone is used, who quarries it, and so on. If not, as a DM, I would make it VERY difficult for you to replicate this work. Not necessarily impossible, but a serious challenge. Orien has maintained a monopoly on the lightning rail for centuries. It's done this by guarding its secret techniques, and by quashing any independent efforts to produce rival forms of magical ground transportation. You're not trying to set up a rival TRANSPORT network, but at the same time, once the techniques are known, it's that much easier for someone else to take them from you and to try to do it. if you're small enough, you might escape their notice. You might work out a deal where you become a bound business of the house. But if you are an independent operator using proprietary Orien techniques, you're a threat to their monopoly. So essentially, I think that acquiring the stone is the least of your worries. If you're an heir of the house, I'd say you could get it through the house, and I'd just look at the price of common trade goods or stronghold construction rules to consider the cost of a large amount of sculpted high-quality stone (as I said, i don't see the rituals involved in preparation as being the equivalent of creating a magic item, but rather creating one of the pieces involved in creating a magic item). But if you don't have an attachment to the house, you'll need to find out just what the material is, what the rituals used to prepare it are, if it's even possible to perform these rituals without possessing the Mark of Passage, what sort of workshop is required, etc, etc... Stealing stones would work, but then you're back to the house getting angry, since you are stealing their property. With all that said, it should CERTAINLY be possible. You're a PC! One of the remarkable characters of the age! But I think it's more than just money - it's a series of adventures in itself, involving negotiations with Orien or even the theft of their priceless lore.
Hellcow 05-06-07, 07:19 PM	There is talk that some of the stones in the Mournland have been carried off, which likely indicates there must be some use for them beside carrying the lightning rail. Or that people have ASSUMED that the stones have more value than they do. Or even that they've used them for some completely unrelated purpose, like taking railroad ties to build a cabin. Having them provide XP for an artificer sounds perfectly logical, especially when you have the LoBster and his buddies around. Except that this only requries a 6th-level artificer, and there's no reason for such an artificer NOT to drain a stone; there's a lot of stones, and there's no way for Orien to police them all. 6th level artificers aren't THAT common, but still, I don't think the system could survive if there was much for an artificer to gain from draining a stone.
Dr. Benway 05-06-07, 10:00 PM	Personally, I think a lot of what was in the following post is either totally erroneous, or based on a LOT of assumtions. Once again, we see a tragic example of someone else putting their game and DM decisions onto the rest of us... So you want Housr Or to kill or jail your character. If you think about it the whole build your oun lightning rail will never work. Obviously if you start out with the presumtion that the premise is impossible, its going to be. First mistake. Start with an open mind. If the PC's are gauranteed to fail any time the DHouses dont like what they doing, then whats the fun in that? Why bother? First you need the train itself before you even worry about the stones. One if just anyone could build one then others would have and then house Orien would loose their monoply on it. Lightning rail "trains" are little more than luxury coaches just like one finds on any other road. They just happen to be linked together and mounted with reciprocating conductor stones and a bound elemental. Not only that, but there are multiple references to welthy nobles and merchants and the like purchasing their own carts, or even mutiple ones, and attatching them onto the local rail. Sure this probably takes a bit of planning ahead of time but still... This is one of the magic technoligies like the Cannith creaton forges or Lyrander airships that only the Houses know how to build and work. Actually Houses Lyrander and Orien have all of their vehicles crafted by the gnomes of Zilargo...as only they posses the secrets of elemental binding on such a scale. it took years, (not a few but many),to develop the lightning rail by the houses so to do so yourself means no adventuring for you. How many years did it take to develop the automobile? The plane? The computer? How many years would it take me to build one from scratch now...? Um...none? In fact I could build a computer in an afternoon from scratch parts, and wood and brass are a lot easier to work with than circuit boards. You could try to steal the plans but no one ever has before and that would **** of all the other houses. think about it you stole from one house what is going stop you from doingit to others. The houses stick togethers on things like this to protect their power base. And think of it as some as you finish your own train then the everyone knows who stole the plans and the elven assassins start showing up and we now have two diferrent house of elves to try and kill you. Three you could try buy one if you had the money but the House Orien would most likely not sell you one because again if others have then they loose money and you would mess up the other trains running on the lines. Think of it your train their train meet some where with a big boom. Either moot, foolishness, or both... I am not even going to address the part about stealing conductor stones, since the OP was obvious just kidding. Anyone reckless enough to do this deserves to be hunted down as HP suggested. All in all, the real issues I see involve getting someone to regularly run the thing. The feat that gives you a bonus to this roll in the explorer's handbook is a good start, or you could hire an Orien excoriate to do it for you I suppose. In the end, I would suggest that a lightning rail 'engine', with the standard complement of carts to go with it, would be comparable in price to an airship...say 80-90,000gp depending on how tricked out it was. As for the price of a conductor stone...I would say probably not as cheap as one might think. Remember that when you are talking about spanning a continent, items like these need to be made en masse, and I see House Cannith taking care of that in their creation forges. Its stated that one of their primary functions was to make large number of items at once... As for making one of them, in lieu of something official, I would suggest the standard process for binding an elemental as outlined in the explorer's handbook and the ECS would do the trick, with a small or tiny elemental. Not THAT expensive, but a pain to do in large numbers. So probably no new transkhorvarian rail lines, but a base or mining faiclity would be feasible, if costly. I hope this has helped! DocB :88E: vs :coolcthul Who shall prevail?
Cifer 05-07-07, 09:23 AM	Except that this only requries a 6th-level artificer, and there's no reason for such an artificer NOT to drain a stone; there's a lot of stones, and there's no way for Orien to police them all. 6th level artificers aren't THAT common, but still, I don't think the system could survive if there was much for an artificer to gain from draining a stone. That would be a reason for House Orien to post bounties (and massive ones at that) for capturing rail vandals. Combined with the relatively low number of artificers above level 6, this would probably suffice to cut down the number of drained stones. Something like that (combined with frequent inspections of the rails) has to be in place anyway because the conductor stones are just a too obvious target for everyone trying to harm the house. Finally, you could also add 25 gp to the price in order to build in an arcane mark, triggered when the stone is illegally uprooted or drained. The perpetrator should now stay away from civilization for at least one month since House Orien's "You're a damn bastard who stole/drained a conductor stone" is now etched into his face...
Hellcow 05-07-07, 02:09 PM	There are multiple references to welthy nobles and merchants and the like purchasing their own carts, or even mutiple ones, and attatching them onto the local rail. Where? As the guy who introduced the Lightning Rail in the first place, I have a LOT of problems with this. The rail system is owned by House Lyrandar, and if you start clogging up the rail lines with your own personal vehicles, you're going to the threatening the ability of House Orien to run its vehicles reliably. Beyond this, the lightning rails - supposedly, the tool required to reliably control a coach - require the possession of the Mark of Passage. I can't speak to any book I didn't work on. And as always, an individual DM can do whatever he wants. However, it has always been my intention that the lightning rail is a proprietary system maintained by House Orien. EDIT: Actually, if by "attach to the local rail" you mean "attached to an existing Orien-operated coach", THAT I could see. I could also see a noble paying Orien to provide a conductor; the noble's private coach is attached to a single-carriage Orien coach, and an Orien heir is on retainer to provide transport. But Nobles being allowed to use the rail however they see fit, with no Orien involvement whatsover? That's something I wouldn't allow in my campaign. Actually Houses Lyrander and Orien have all of their vehicles crafted by the gnomes of Zilargo...as only they posses the secrets of elemental binding on such a scale. Partially true. The Zil are the elemental binders, and the elemental vehicles cannot be built without Zil hands. They're also expert shipwrights. However, the creation of the lightning rail involves both Zil elementalists, House Cannith Magewrights, and House Orien coach-crafters; if you check page 262 of the ECS, you'll see you have to have the Mark of Passage to create lightning reins. Likewise, the airship is a joint project of House Cannith, House Lyrandar, and the Zil. The vault network of Kundarak is a joint effort of House Kundarak, House Orien, and House Cannith. This is one of the primary roles of the Twelve: facilitating cooperation between the houses to drive innovation that no single house could produce on its own. So the Zil play a vital role in the construction of airships - but House Lyrandar and Cannith magewrights are also involved in this process. It's not a simple thing.
Hellcow 05-07-07, 02:12 PM	That would be a reason for House Orien to post bounties (and massive ones at that) for capturing rail vandals. Actually, reviewing the rules, the artificer needs to spend a day with the item to retain essence from it. Given that the xp rewards from this would be trivial (a point or two per stone), the time and risk invested make the stones unlikely targets for artificers. Sure, you could do it in the Mournland, but it's still a lot of time for a trivial gain; as an adventurer, you'll make more XP just wandering around the Mournland for a day.
CannibalSmith 05-07-07, 02:51 PM	Actually, reviewing the rules, the artificer needs to spend a day with the item to retain essence from it. Given that the XP rewards from this would be trivial [..], the time and risk invested make the stones unlikely targets for artificers. And there we have it. The number one justification to not state the price of a conductor stone smashed by the Hellcow himself. As the guy who introduced the Lightning Rail in the first place, I have a LOT of problems with this. Good. I like it when you speak authoritatively. Conversely I wince every time when you speak along the lines of "your game, your rules" especially since it's a waste of space and regurgitation of your signature. I can't speak to any book I didn't work on. And as always, an individual DM can do whatever he wants. *wince* Now, to clarify, in your opinion, do the conductor stones have the repulsion property as stated in the setting? Specifically: When two conductor stones are within 5 feet of each other, [..] The orbs repel each other strongly; [..]
Hellcow 05-07-07, 03:43 PM	Now, to clarify, in your opinion, do the conductor stones have the repulsion property as stated in the setting? That's certainly the RAW. However, if we move from my opinion to my PREFERENCE, no. I hold that the stones react to the coach, and that the coach is enchanted in a different and more complex manner. The COACH is an expensive item requiring significant investment. The individual stones are not. As such, I don't have individual stones possessing a magical ability which could make them clearly useful in their own right. They are simply a focus item required for the successful operation of the coach. The value of an individual railroad tie is trivial next to the value of the train.
CannibalSmith 05-07-07, 04:28 PM	Now we're getting somewhere. Next step: in your preference, the cars have to be enchanted in a "more complex manner" too, yes?
Dr. Benway 05-07-07, 06:32 PM	EDIT: Actually, if by "attach to the local rail" you mean "attached to an existing Orien-operated coach", THAT I could see. I could also see a noble paying Orien to provide a conductor; the noble's private coach is attached to a single-carriage Orien coach, and an Orien heir is on retainer to provide transport. But Nobles being allowed to use the rail however they see fit, with no Orien involvement whatsover? That's something I wouldn't allow in my campaign. That is in fact what I meant. Nobles have the money and clout to get their private coaches attatched to an Orien line going where they want to be. And for the record, I second the opinion that I get a thrill when you come down decisively about things like this...cheers! DocB :88E: vs :coolcthul Who shall prevail?
Edymnion 05-07-07, 09:16 PM	And for the record, I second the opinion that I get a thrill when you come down decisively about things like this...cheers!Ditto, there's only so much of the "I can't say anything that might possibly contradict with anything WotC may have written or may write at any point in the future" stuff we can take before it just gets old. Just stick a "Any definative statements made are the opinion of myself and in no way reflect the official Eberron setting in any way" disclaimer in your sig, and proceed to berate away. :)
Dr. Benway 05-08-07, 12:19 PM	UPDATE: Pg 34 in the Explorer's Handbook is where hey talk about custom coaches, what they entail, etc. Strangely enough, altho it mentions House Orien sells these to people, they neglect to list a price for them :P DocB :88E: vs :coolcthul Who shall prevail?
Edymnion 05-08-07, 12:39 PM	UPDATE: Pg 34 in the Explorer's Handbook is where hey talk about custom coaches, what they entail, etc. Strangely enough, altho it mentions House Orien sells these to people, they neglect to list a price for them :PIf you have to ask, you can't afford one. ;)
Hideous Phidias 05-08-07, 01:05 PM	Personally, I think a lot of what was in the following post is either totally erroneous, or based on a LOT of assumtions. Once again, we see a tragic example of someone else putting their game and DM decisions onto the rest of us... I would just like to say yes a lot of what was in my post is based on my assumtimus and view of how the eberron world works. But, is not the spirit of the Eberron campaign setting itself. The books give the out line of theworld and leave much out to be filled in by The DM and Players. And is not what these forums are for to talk about how one thinks things should or how we ran things in that situation. If cannithsmith was looking for answers found only in the books then it would have a short thread. Q:Where can I find the price of this? A:Book and page number or no there is no price because not for sale. Then maybe a thanks for the post and the thread would die like so many. That said I think if he or his DM wants to have the buying and selling of Dragonmarked items more common it is a great ideain my book. Make up a price for so things on your own is fine in my eyes. As Hellcow always sayes it is yyour Eberron and what is in or not is up to you.
Nevarre 05-08-07, 06:33 PM	So... It is possible to sabotage the lightning rail by moving the stones? Possibly creating a different passage that flows down a step hill into a ditch? Would robbers remove a load of them from the 'line' forcing the coach to stop? Just wondering... ;)
Edymnion 05-08-07, 09:35 PM	So... It is possible to sabotage the lightning rail by moving the stones? Possibly creating a different passage that flows down a step hill into a ditch? Would robbers remove a load of them from the 'line' forcing the coach to stop? Just wondering... ;)Removing just one or two stones generally won't be enough to stop the rail, but you pull up a half dozen in a row, yeah, you'll make the rail stop. But I do recall reading that most of the "trains" (do we even have an official word for what you call an engine pulling multiple carriages?) carry a number of conductor stones just for this sort of thing, so they just have somebody jump out, replace the stones, then keep on going. And no, I would not say you could run them off into the ditch, as they CAN simply stop the thing before that happens.
Cifer 05-09-07, 12:28 PM	However, they're driving at 30 mph. I haven't got my books with me so I don't know how long it takes to decelerate, but if the prospective saboteur is intelligent enough to uproot the stones and replace them with cheap non-magical look-alikes, this might work.
Edymnion 05-09-07, 01:23 PM	However, they're driving at 30 mph. I haven't got my books with me so I don't know how long it takes to decelerate, but if the prospective saboteur is intelligent enough to uproot the stones and replace them with cheap non-magical look-alikes, this might work.Well, accourding to the books the stones have electrical arcs jumping between the stones. You'd need to replicate that as well, or else they would spot the dead spot. But yeah, if you're going to go to that much trouble, might as well go all the way.
AlHazred 05-09-07, 04:18 PM	Actually, I don't have the books in front of me, but I believe that the conductor stones only arc lightning when the engine passes over them -- at other times, they just glow softly. I think it would certainly be possible to fake up a dozen or so, and use them to perform terrorist acts...
Cifer 05-09-07, 05:40 PM	Well, accourding to the books the stones have electrical arcs jumping between the stones. You'd need to replicate that as well, or else they would spot the dead spot. Realistic arcs of lightning are a mere Silent Image away - more precisely, two castings of the spell from first-level casters would cover the required hundred feet. Because of the 8D6 damage dealt, few people except for the PCs have any chance at surviving the crash, so it would be relatively easy to get away.
Hellcow 05-10-07, 02:58 PM	...in your preference, the cars have to be enchanted in a "more complex manner" too, yes? Yes. In my opinion, you have a hierarchy of value and effort: The lead coach. The "engine" carriage, containing both the bound elemental and the control systems for directing it. This is the most expensive and complex piece. It requires the work of a skilled elemental binder, and the control systems require a magewright/wizard/artificer/etc with the Mark of Passage. Secondary carriages. I don't like the idea that a secondary carriage just has a "repelling" conductor stone stuck on the bottom. In my campaign, the carriage isn't as significant as the lead carriage; it doesn't actually have a bound elemental. But it does involve arcane engineering. It's tied to the lead coach, and uses the connection to the elemental to create a circuit between carriage and conductor stone. The conductor stones. In my campaign, the stones require a craftsman with specific arcane knowledge (which at this point is in the possession of both House Lyrandar and House Orien, as both were involved in developing it through the Twelve). However, the stones are not truly full-on magical items, but rather focus items, just like a focus item used in casting an arcane spell. You need them to make the spell WORK, but the power comes from elsewhere. The stones cost Orien something to make. It takes effort to treat and prepare the stone. But it is fundamentally a lump of carved stone, not a true magic item with the sort of value you expect when dealing with magic items. That value lies in the coach. So, this doesn't answer the original question of "How much do they cost?" I'm traveling, so I don't have access to my books. But if there is something like the Stronghold Builder's Guide that talks about buying large quantities of raw materials, I'd look at it as crafted marble - a quality material with some preparation involved, but not hideously expensive when compared to the carriages themselves.
CannibalSmith 05-10-07, 04:59 PM	Next, in your world, how does a detached (from the coach) carriage behave? Does it just slow down, stop, and hover? Or does it fall to the ground?
elondria420 12-24-07, 09:31 AM	I found this thread very useful, thank you. In my game one of my players in an artifacer who is planning on draining as many stones as he can from the mournlands so this question has been on my mind of late. I do see the value in having the items be a cheap focus item, however in the spirit of "making the world my own" I think they will be magical items themselves. I like this idea not because of my players plans to make lots of "cool stuff" with the xp they garner from these stones, but for the story arc of the coming conflict with House Orien and House Cannith (my players hail from Cannith, yay for a new War of the Mark lol) as well as the interesting implications this will have on a few nasties (LoB included) using the stones to further their own power as well. House Orien definitely has the resources to ensure anyone stealing stones from the working lines would quickly be caught and appropriately punished (or executed), however the Mournlands is a different story altogether. The mournlands is all about salvage when you trek their, and I have to say a huge magical transportation network sitting there is worthy of salvage. :) I'll post back with the details when I work them up now that I have a better idea in mind (thanks to the plethora of ideas in this thread).
aelryinth 12-26-07, 03:40 PM	The easiest way around this is to make construction of the lightning rail stones an ALCHEMICAL effect. You can then make each stone as valuable as you like, because it's the process that empowers them, they actually don't have magic to retain. The elemental synergy/reaction between them is the result of the alchemical changes to the stone and the patterns of metals imbued into them during the creation process. The opposing charge of the stones on the rail itself comes from the elemental engine and the influence of the elemental itself stretching back along the train and reversing the polarity of the charge, as well as manipulating that force to keep the carriages and engines stable. Alchemy specifically has magic involved, but as there's no stat write up for conductor stones, you are perfectly safe to assume that it's a high level and secretive alchemical process rather then just making another magical item. It would also be a far better explanation for why they can create so many of them, since even the best artificer could create a maximum of 1/day, but you could potentially create as many via alchemy means as the operation you set up to produce them. And then, no, you don't have to worry about some idiot artificer stealing stones to get 1 xp of essence. ===Aelryinth