infusions, arcane, divine and spell failure chance [Archive] - Wizards Community

infusions, arcane, divine and spell failure chance [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
sirhcvd02
06-26-07, 02:41 PM Concerning the spell failure chance.

Correct me if I'm wrong, when it comes to the ARCANE spell failure chance when wearing armor or shields, that means DIVINE spells AND INFUSIONS (which "are neither arcane nor divine") do NOT incur the ARCANE spell failure chance, right?
garner_adam
06-26-07, 03:14 PM Sirchvd02,

Infusions are not arcane spells and don't incur the arcane spell failure chance.

However from my understanding if an artificer made an arcane scroll it would have arcane spell failure chance. Also infusions cannot be crafted in to scrolls. I can't find the page numbers to confirm it though. :(
Loki5654
06-26-07, 03:19 PM Concerning the spell failure chance.

Correct me if I'm wrong, when it comes to the ARCANE spell failure chance when wearing armor or shields, that means DIVINE spells AND INFUSIONS (which "are neither arcane nor divine") do NOT incur the ARCANE spell failure chance, right?
Right.
Sirchvd02,

Infusions are not arcane spells and don't incur the arcane spell failure chance.
Right again.
However from my understanding if an artificer made an arcane scroll it would have arcane spell failure chance.
Not quite. Scrolls created by Artificers are niether arcane nor divine. This mean that anyone trying to activate a scroll made by an Artificer must use UMD (including the artificer who made the scroll).
Also infusions cannot be crafted in to scrolls.
Correct. That's what minor schemas are for.
sirhcvd02
06-26-07, 04:56 PM thnx, i just wanted to confirm because we haven't played someone that uses divine magic or infusions so I was making sure...

also thnx for the UMD aspect of artificer scrolls.

Just wanted to mention that indeed Artificers can't make "infusion scrolls" but there are schemas, which are once a day infusion items found in Magic of Eberron but doesn't allow for infusions that need costly material components or XP cost. Still, better than nothing ;).
kentonblack
06-30-07, 09:08 PM wait, so, any scroll(spell completion item) must be UMD'ed to work properly for other class members?

sorcerer: So! my good artificer friend! how are those scrolls I commissioned from you coming? :D
Artificer: .... uhhh.... :/
Sorcerer: >:(
Edymnion
06-30-07, 11:24 PM wait, so, any scroll(spell completion item) must be UMD'ed to work properly for other class members?

sorcerer: So! my good artificer friend! how are those scrolls I commissioned from you coming? :D
Artificer: .... uhhh.... :/
Sorcerer: >:(Yes, it was changed to that specifically to prevent an Artificer and a Wizard teaming up to get literally every spell in the game in the Wizard's book without having to research anything.

The Artificer can, by the RAW, make *ANY* spell into a scroll. There are no limits on "knowing" the spell, like there is for a wizard or sorcerer. So, to prevent a pretty abusable situation, they just made it so it wasn't an issue.

On the flip side, the Rogue in the party will love you for it! :D
kentonblack
07-01-07, 11:34 PM touche...

.
.
.
touche... :)
ssj4sg
07-03-07, 12:05 PM I was under the impression that, despite their infusions having no class, that they were creating spell scrolls that could be used by anyone who has that spell on their list. I don't have the book in front of me, but I'm pretty sure it doesn't say in the ECS that when they craft an object it has no divine/arcane aura or whatever. It only makes that point when it comes to infusions (which cannot be used to craft ANYTHING). I might be wrong, it could be in errata/faq somewhere, but the book itself never says that outright regarding crafting. It wouldn't seem to make much sense that in Eberron (aside from magewrights) the artificer as a merchant couldn't make items usable by anyone but rogues/bards/artificers. Maybe some campaigns yes, but it seems too restrictive. I get the problem with wizards, but that's more of a DM call then anything i would say, rather than a change/specific rule/ruling.
Loki5654
07-03-07, 01:10 PM I was under the impression that, despite their infusions having no class, that they were creating spell scrolls that could be used by anyone who has that spell on their list. I don't have the book in front of me, but I'm pretty sure it doesn't say in the ECS that when they craft an object it has no divine/arcane aura or whatever.
From the errata for the ECS:
Magic items created by an artificer are considered neither arcane nor divine.
ssj4sg
07-03-07, 07:46 PM Ok, thanks for pointing out that errata. It does seem a little foolish though. I can't imagine playing with someone who would abuse that ability to good effect and the DM would allow it. My mistake though on the rule.
Edymnion
07-03-07, 10:03 PM Ok, thanks for pointing out that errata. It does seem a little foolish though. I can't imagine playing with someone who would abuse that ability to good effect and the DM would allow it. My mistake though on the rule.See though, there would be no reason for any balance at all in the material if everyone was good enough to not abuse things. The rules are a lot like laws. They keep the honest people honest, but someone determined to get around them will always find a "legal" way to do so, if not just break them outright.
Loki5654
07-04-07, 12:01 AM I agree with Edy.

Its a lot easier to say "The speed limit is 35, break it and you get a $500 ticket"* than it is to say "Well, we generally like to keep in below 45 around this section, but depending on the circumstances you may or may not get a ticket, and even then we'd have to figure out an appropriate amount of the fine..."

Its easier to say "Red is Red, and Blue is Blue, lets not argue of shades of Purple."**

*As you can tell, I haven't gotten a ticket in years. I have no idea how much they are nowadays.
**I tried this with Black and White and it just sounded bad in my head.
OctaviusIII
07-04-07, 02:35 AM Its easier to say "Red is Red, and Blue is Blue, lets not argue of shades of Purple."**

Goodness, this just reminded me of a rule at a camp I used to work at: "Boys are blue, girls are pink. Let's not make purple." In other words, no makeouts.

Actually ON topic, this suddenly makes me like the Artificer class that much more. Oh for more downtime to make items...

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
sirhcvd02 06-26-07, 02:41 PM	Concerning the spell failure chance. Correct me if I'm wrong, when it comes to the ARCANE spell failure chance when wearing armor or shields, that means DIVINE spells AND INFUSIONS (which "are neither arcane nor divine") do NOT incur the ARCANE spell failure chance, right?
garner_adam 06-26-07, 03:14 PM	Sirchvd02, Infusions are not arcane spells and don't incur the arcane spell failure chance. However from my understanding if an artificer made an arcane scroll it would have arcane spell failure chance. Also infusions cannot be crafted in to scrolls. I can't find the page numbers to confirm it though. :(
Loki5654 06-26-07, 03:19 PM	Concerning the spell failure chance. Correct me if I'm wrong, when it comes to the ARCANE spell failure chance when wearing armor or shields, that means DIVINE spells AND INFUSIONS (which "are neither arcane nor divine") do NOT incur the ARCANE spell failure chance, right? Right. Sirchvd02, Infusions are not arcane spells and don't incur the arcane spell failure chance. Right again. However from my understanding if an artificer made an arcane scroll it would have arcane spell failure chance. Not quite. Scrolls created by Artificers are niether arcane nor divine. This mean that anyone trying to activate a scroll made by an Artificer must use UMD (including the artificer who made the scroll). Also infusions cannot be crafted in to scrolls. Correct. That's what minor schemas are for.
sirhcvd02 06-26-07, 04:56 PM	thnx, i just wanted to confirm because we haven't played someone that uses divine magic or infusions so I was making sure... also thnx for the UMD aspect of artificer scrolls. Just wanted to mention that indeed Artificers can't make "infusion scrolls" but there are schemas, which are once a day infusion items found in Magic of Eberron but doesn't allow for infusions that need costly material components or XP cost. Still, better than nothing ;).
kentonblack 06-30-07, 09:08 PM	wait, so, any scroll(spell completion item) must be UMD'ed to work properly for other class members? sorcerer: So! my good artificer friend! how are those scrolls I commissioned from you coming? :D Artificer: .... uhhh.... :/ Sorcerer: >:(
Edymnion 06-30-07, 11:24 PM	wait, so, any scroll(spell completion item) must be UMD'ed to work properly for other class members? sorcerer: So! my good artificer friend! how are those scrolls I commissioned from you coming? :D Artificer: .... uhhh.... :/ Sorcerer: >:(Yes, it was changed to that specifically to prevent an Artificer and a Wizard teaming up to get literally every spell in the game in the Wizard's book without having to research anything. The Artificer can, by the RAW, make ANY spell into a scroll. There are no limits on "knowing" the spell, like there is for a wizard or sorcerer. So, to prevent a pretty abusable situation, they just made it so it wasn't an issue. On the flip side, the Rogue in the party will love you for it! :D
kentonblack 07-01-07, 11:34 PM	touche... . . . touche... :)
ssj4sg 07-03-07, 12:05 PM	I was under the impression that, despite their infusions having no class, that they were creating spell scrolls that could be used by anyone who has that spell on their list. I don't have the book in front of me, but I'm pretty sure it doesn't say in the ECS that when they craft an object it has no divine/arcane aura or whatever. It only makes that point when it comes to infusions (which cannot be used to craft ANYTHING). I might be wrong, it could be in errata/faq somewhere, but the book itself never says that outright regarding crafting. It wouldn't seem to make much sense that in Eberron (aside from magewrights) the artificer as a merchant couldn't make items usable by anyone but rogues/bards/artificers. Maybe some campaigns yes, but it seems too restrictive. I get the problem with wizards, but that's more of a DM call then anything i would say, rather than a change/specific rule/ruling.
Loki5654 07-03-07, 01:10 PM	I was under the impression that, despite their infusions having no class, that they were creating spell scrolls that could be used by anyone who has that spell on their list. I don't have the book in front of me, but I'm pretty sure it doesn't say in the ECS that when they craft an object it has no divine/arcane aura or whatever. From the errata for the ECS: Magic items created by an artificer are considered neither arcane nor divine.
ssj4sg 07-03-07, 07:46 PM	Ok, thanks for pointing out that errata. It does seem a little foolish though. I can't imagine playing with someone who would abuse that ability to good effect and the DM would allow it. My mistake though on the rule.
Edymnion 07-03-07, 10:03 PM	Ok, thanks for pointing out that errata. It does seem a little foolish though. I can't imagine playing with someone who would abuse that ability to good effect and the DM would allow it. My mistake though on the rule.See though, there would be no reason for any balance at all in the material if everyone was good enough to not abuse things. The rules are a lot like laws. They keep the honest people honest, but someone determined to get around them will always find a "legal" way to do so, if not just break them outright.
Loki5654 07-04-07, 12:01 AM	I agree with Edy. Its a lot easier to say "The speed limit is 35, break it and you get a $500 ticket"* than it is to say "Well, we generally like to keep in below 45 around this section, but depending on the circumstances you may or may not get a ticket, and even then we'd have to figure out an appropriate amount of the fine..." Its easier to say "Red is Red, and Blue is Blue, lets not argue of shades of Purple."** As you can tell, I haven't gotten a ticket in years. I have no idea how much they are nowadays. *I tried this with Black and White and it just sounded bad in my head.
OctaviusIII 07-04-07, 02:35 AM	Its easier to say "Red is Red, and Blue is Blue, lets not argue of shades of Purple."** Goodness, this just reminded me of a rule at a camp I used to work at: "Boys are blue, girls are pink. Let's not make purple." In other words, no makeouts. Actually ON topic, this suddenly makes me like the Artificer class that much more. Oh for more downtime to make items...