Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Daydreamer 03-14-07, 12:12 AM	What are the most powerful stated Npcs in Eberron, and in what source are they stated. Also give honorable mention to npcs that are semi stated (like vol). (dragon magazine counts) For my contribution. Vol, The great druid, the ruling nighthags of droaam (and the fleshforger wizard there), and the many high level psionicists of Rierdra. I understand some dragon magazine stats out of one of the Rajahs as well. one thing ive noticed i havnt seen anyone breech epic levels. Does any npc go epic in eberron. (not be epic cr, like an great wyrm red dragon is cr 23 etc).
Bluebrush 03-14-07, 06:39 AM	There's also Kaius, the keeper of the flame and that one halfling cleric someone slipped into the Jorasco clinic in Fairhaven.
Ryoden_Anariavas 03-14-07, 10:38 AM	In Players Guide to Eberron it says that Thondred the dwarfen artificer is epic level but it doesn't stat him out.
Bluebrush 03-14-07, 12:00 PM	Thorndred might not exist by Canon. He's an example character who exists to appear in pictures and italicised snippets of fiction with witty conversations.
Daydreamer 03-14-07, 01:31 PM	I know the rajahs have epic levels, but i dont think active (in the sense of free) around the world does. NOthing that i have seen. What does it mean by epic does it say (dwarf artificer/level 22) or does it say epic in a text that might mean-just very powerful?
Bluebrush 03-14-07, 01:58 PM	Epic has a specific meaning in D&D, in that it refers to super-high level characters of 21st level and upwards and similarly powered foes and equipment. Mind, in Eberron, being level 15 already makes you one of the baddest badasses around.
Daydreamer 03-14-07, 02:49 PM	I know epic means over level 20, what i meant was does it specifically say 'epic 22 level artificer' or does it have epic come out of the mouth of an npc in a fluff quote-which could mean very powerful. Or does it just mention it lightly in passage when talking about artificiers in this book?
fiendish_platypus 03-14-07, 06:01 PM	No, I don't think it does I think it has a picture of him super powerful that says thondred is among the first heroes of modern times to reach epic level or sumnthin like that.
Dragom 03-14-07, 11:27 PM	Well I do know it's suggested you level the Lord of Blades, Errandis d'Vol, and pretty much any other mega BBEG to ensure they are allways atleast 2-4 levels higher then the party. So technically they could be Epic. Or they could be mid-level. Or high... Depends on your campaign, I guess.
Hellcow 03-15-07, 10:21 AM	Thorndred might not exist by Canon. He's an example character who exists to appear in pictures and italicised snippets of fiction with witty conversations. No, I don't think it does I think it has a picture of him super powerful that says thondred is among the first heroes of modern times to reach epic level or sumnthin like that. Bluebrush is correct. Page 17 of the PGtE says "It's probably best to assume that player characters who reach epic levels are among the first people to accomplish such a feat, at least in recent memory." It then includes the progression for epic artificer, since this is a new class added in Eberron. It then includes a picture OF an epic artificer, using the iconic Thondred as an example. The caption says "Thondred is among the first heroes of the modern age to attain epic levels." This is not actually supposed to mean that you should add Thondred to your campaign, that he's the most powerful artificer ever, or anything like that. It's simply that ANY artificer who reaches epic level would be among the first to do so; as such, if we're showing you a picture of one, that has to be the case. So no. To the best of my knowledge, none of the iconic Eberron characters have stats beyond the ECS (where Thondred is listed as 6th level), and there's no expectation that people will use them in their own campaigns.
Hellcow 03-15-07, 10:33 AM	As for epic-level NPCs. There are a number of 20th-level Inspired with the powers of a kalaraq or usvapni dropped on top of class abilities, making them more of a threat than a normal 20th level character. Beyond that, to the best of my knowledge the only epic level characters defined to date of are Melysse Miron, currently in Dreadhold, who becomes a 21st level cleric in Flamekeep, and members of the Council of Ashtakala, some of whom are described in the "Eternal Evil" article in Dragon #337. In some cases (Hektula), they actually have more than 20 character levels; in others, the combination of character levels and innate abilities (as a rakshasa's sorcerer levels build on its natural caster levels) result in epic power. The vampire lords of the Qabalrin would be another possible source of epic characters, though none have been statted to date, and at the moment, none have actually been released (except in the Dragonshard computer game). With that said, what I've said all along is that you should advance the powerful NPCs to keep pace with the PCs. The Lord of Blades isn't standing still; he's engaging in his own adventures, and he has the same remarkable potential as the PCs. Essentially, as far as I'm concerned, he should always stay a few levels ahead of them. He may start at 12th, but by the time the PCs are 12th level, he should be 15th or 16th, and so on - staying far enough ahead that they have a chance when they face him, but that he's always a challenge. Erandis d'Vol should likewise advance, though in her case, I'd give a good reason for any gain in power (since she's had centuries to level and apparently hasn't); to level, she needs to acquire specific powerful things, such as ancient tomes of the Qabalrin, artifacts, that she can drain of power, etc. But the point of recurring enemies - as defined in the ECS - is to have NPCs that keep pace with the heroes. Magneto is ALWAYS a threat to the X-Men; if they're gaining levels, so is he.
Daydreamer 03-15-07, 10:53 AM	Right and i appreciate that point Keith. My questionare here was simply to amas knowledge of 'official' epic npcs. Solely to tickle my curosity. Well not solely, i tend to understand the world in terms of power groups- and powerful npcs. So my knowing who the powerful npcs in a way helps me flesh out my campaign. ( i know powerful is 12th level etc in this world-believe it or not i actually run low powered games, that rarely reach epic). I like knowing whos out there though.
Shadowkire 03-17-07, 09:22 PM	As for epic-level NPCs. There are a number of 20th-level Inspired with the powers of a kalaraq or usvapni dropped on top of class abilities, making them more of a threat than a normal 20th level character. Beyond that, to the best of my knowledge the only epic level characters defined to date of are Melysse Miron, currently in Dreadhold, who becomes a 21st level cleric in Flamekeep, and members of the Council of Ashtakala, some of whom are described in the "Eternal Evil" article in Dragon #337. In some cases (Hektula), they actually have more than 20 character levels; in others, the combination of character levels and innate abilities (as a rakshasa's sorcerer levels build on its natural caster levels) result in epic power. The vampire lords of the Qabalrin would be another possible source of epic characters, though none have been statted to date, and at the moment, none have actually been released (except in the Dragonshard computer game). With that said, what I've said all along is that you should advance the powerful NPCs to keep pace with the PCs. The Lord of Blades isn't standing still; he's engaging in his own adventures, and he has the same remarkable potential as the PCs. Essentially, as far as I'm concerned, he should always stay a few levels ahead of them. He may start at 12th, but by the time the PCs are 12th level, he should be 15th or 16th, and so on - staying far enough ahead that they have a chance when they face him, but that he's always a challenge. Erandis d'Vol should likewise advance, though in her case, I'd give a good reason for any gain in power (since she's had centuries to level and apparently hasn't); to level, she needs to acquire specific powerful things, such as ancient tomes of the Qabalrin, artifacts, that she can drain of power, etc. But the point of recurring enemies - as defined in the ECS - is to have NPCs that keep pace with the heroes. Magneto is ALWAYS a threat to the X-Men; if they're gaining levels, so is he. Ian Mckellen's epic level character: Magnedalf lvl 40 wizard, lvl 20 supervillian
Cambian00 03-17-07, 10:38 PM	**big pouty lip** I have actually never played a character past lvl 16.... never seen epic in action...
Kaodi 03-17-07, 11:51 PM	Mordain the Fleshweaver is an 18th level wizard, is he not? And, being hundreds and not thousands of years old, it might not be too big a stretch to say that he could gain a level or two more if need be, especially in a campaign featuring resurgent Daelkyr elements.
Nived 03-18-07, 03:19 AM	You're mistaken buddy. While Mordain is indeed an 18th level caster (and is thus the highest level mortal character I can think of.... whose not petrified in Dreadhold), he is only 400 or so. Actually according to the masters of magic Dragonshard "By now, Mordain should be 438 years old -- well into his twilight years."
Bluebrush 03-18-07, 07:37 AM	And, being hundreds and not thousands of years old, it might not be too big a stretch to say that he could gain a level or two more if need be, especially in a campaign featuring resurgent Daelkyr elements.Well, that's the thing see. Has he been gaining these levels over time or did he rise to greatness and plateau? It's not as obvious as it is for Vol, who presumably stopped levelleing up at some point but is still there. If he recently hit 18th level then it might imply he hasn't had too long to build up his menagerie of higher level weird monstrosities. If he plateaued at an early age, he's had several decades to grow his army of shoggoths. If he is a major villain, he should level with the PCs, if they're facing him regularly, but his rationale for levelling might be that he's recovering ancient artefacts which he can study to increase his power.