Lords of Dust and devils [Archive] - Wizards Community

Lords of Dust and devils [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
heirodule
08-08-07, 03:14 PM are ordinary devils much concerned with the lords of dust?

Would some erynies, etc, be serving their interests?
Rerecros
08-08-07, 10:50 PM What are ordinary devils? Are you referring to the devils of shavarath? The feinds on the outer planes in general? The devils on other planes? Also, what are serging interests.

During the age of demons, extraplanar fiends were welcomed on the prime, and most would like to see the return of these days. But how this affects the goals of specific fiends varies greatly. Erinyes specifically are like field officers in the wars of shavarath, having the capricious support (magical, cannon fodder or otherwise) of a Rajah would help keep the archons on and demons on the ropes, but they would never win. Keep in mind the Rajah have no stakes in this conflict, they would only aid or pretend to aid any side simply to toy with them.
yrogerg
08-08-07, 11:58 PM What are ordinary devils? Are you referring to the devils of shavarath? The feinds on the outer planes in general? The devils on other planes? Also, what are serging interests.

During the age of demons, extraplanar fiends were welcomed on the prime, and most would like to see the return of these days. But how this affects the goals of specific fiends varies greatly. Erinyes specifically are like field officers in the wars of shavarath, having the capricious support (magical, cannon fodder or otherwise) of a Rajah would help keep the archons on and demons on the ropes, but they would never win. Keep in mind the Rajah have no stakes in this conflict, they would only aid or pretend to aid any side simply to toy with them.

Where are you getting all this from? Everything I've seen written in a sourcebook or added commentary from the setting designers (other than MMIV and MMV), suggests that the Outsiders of Shavarath *avoid* mucking around in the material plane, and are even loathe to involved creatures from the Material plane, as it dilutes and demeans the *purpose* of the war. I really have a *very* hard time picturing the sort of weirdo extraplanar alliance that you're describing here. Shavarath emphatically isn't the Blood War, and honestly, this is the most important difference.
mhacdebhandia
08-09-07, 12:16 AM are ordinary devils much concerned with the lords of dust?
While the rakshasa are the most numerous fiends native to Eberron, they are not the only children of Khyber. In my opinion, and Keith has said something similar a couple of times, there are "native" examples of all of the different fiends of Shavarath, Mabar, et cetera to be found in Eberron itself - like the rakshasas, they served the rajahs in the Age of Demons, and may belong to the Lords of Dust today.

That said, there's also the Dragon magazine article on the Lords of Dust which described Thelestes, a succubus "spirit of murder" exiled from Mabar who joined in the schemes of the Lords of Dust. There's no reason why a rare diabolical exile from the armies of Shavarath couldn't end up in a similar circumstance.

Generally, though, I prefer to keep the Lords of Dust an alliance of native fiends - rakshasas, demons, devils, yugoloths, all that good stuff.
ArcTan
08-09-07, 01:47 AM While the rakshasa are the most numerous fiends native to Eberron, they are not the only children of Khyber. In my opinion, and Keith has said something similar a couple of times, there are "native" examples of all of the different fiends of Shavarath, Mabar, et cetera to be found in Eberron itself - like the rakshasas, they served the rajahs in the Age of Demons, and may belong to the Lords of Dust today

Keith has said that's how he runs his home game, but this isn't "official" for Eberron -- no mention of things like native Pit Fiends has ever been made in official texts, probably because it would create confusion.

Keith's also said that while something like a Khyber Pit Fiend might have the game statistics as a MM Pit Fiend, for convenience, he does consider it to be a different "species" from the Fernia Pit Fiends, with a very different appearance and very different set of motivations.

I myself would not rule that every single MM fiend exists in Khyber -- I would pick and choose for the "weirdest" ones, the flavor being that the Rakshasa are the only horrors of Khyber normal enough to be willing and able to deal with the deception of pretending to be human and messing with life on the surface, and that the other fiends of Khyber are infinitely more horrifying and bizarre. I'd try to keep the more humanoid-looking fiends out of the list -- I think, for instance, that Thelestes is one of the very few Succubi who exist in Khyber because Succubi can normally only be found in Mabar.

It's the same reason that KB has expressed distaste for converting Archfiends as Rakshasa Rajahs -- the Rajahs shouldn't be anything so "ordinary" or recognizable as most Archfiends are, they should be creatures unique to the Eberron universe. If you must put Demogorgon in, downgrade him to a Lesser Power of Khyber -- let the Overlords retain their unique identity.
heirodule
08-09-07, 10:11 AM While the rakshasa are the most numerous fiends native to Eberron, they are not the only children of Khyber. In my opinion, and Keith has said something similar a couple of times, there are "native" examples of all of the different fiends of Shavarath, Mabar, et cetera to be found in Eberron itself - like the rakshasas, they served the rajahs in the Age of Demons, and may belong to the Lords of Dust today.

That said, there's also the Dragon magazine article on the Lords of Dust which described Thelestes, a succubus "spirit of murder" exiled from Mabar who joined in the schemes of the Lords of Dust. There's no reason why a rare diabolical exile from the armies of Shavarath couldn't end up in a similar circumstance.

Generally, though, I prefer to keep the Lords of Dust an alliance of native fiends - rakshasas, demons, devils, yugoloths, all that good stuff.

So if an erynies is teamed up with a rakshasa, its a native erynies from kyber, not from shavarath. That's the main distinction to keep in mind?
naturax
08-09-07, 10:43 AM What ever happened to the Dust Devil spell anyways? I'd love to see the Lords of Dust Devils somewhere in 3.5
ArcTan
08-13-07, 12:12 AM So if an erynies is teamed up with a rakshasa, its a native erynies from kyber, not from shavarath. That's the main distinction to keep in mind?

It probably doesn't look much like an Erinyes from the Monster Manual, doesn't call itself an "Erinyes" (or whatever name the standard Erinyes from the Outer Planes have in your world) and is only *similar* to regular Erinyes, not *related* -- just like, say, an Axiomatic Animal from Daanvi is only similar to real Animals, not biologically related to them.
mhacdebhandia
08-13-07, 02:54 AM Yes, actually, I'm looking forward to visually redesigning the standard demons for my Eberron-adapted Savage Tide campaign.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
heirodule 08-08-07, 03:14 PM	are ordinary devils much concerned with the lords of dust? Would some erynies, etc, be serving their interests?
Rerecros 08-08-07, 10:50 PM	What are ordinary devils? Are you referring to the devils of shavarath? The feinds on the outer planes in general? The devils on other planes? Also, what are serging interests. During the age of demons, extraplanar fiends were welcomed on the prime, and most would like to see the return of these days. But how this affects the goals of specific fiends varies greatly. Erinyes specifically are like field officers in the wars of shavarath, having the capricious support (magical, cannon fodder or otherwise) of a Rajah would help keep the archons on and demons on the ropes, but they would never win. Keep in mind the Rajah have no stakes in this conflict, they would only aid or pretend to aid any side simply to toy with them.
yrogerg 08-08-07, 11:58 PM	What are ordinary devils? Are you referring to the devils of shavarath? The feinds on the outer planes in general? The devils on other planes? Also, what are serging interests. During the age of demons, extraplanar fiends were welcomed on the prime, and most would like to see the return of these days. But how this affects the goals of specific fiends varies greatly. Erinyes specifically are like field officers in the wars of shavarath, having the capricious support (magical, cannon fodder or otherwise) of a Rajah would help keep the archons on and demons on the ropes, but they would never win. Keep in mind the Rajah have no stakes in this conflict, they would only aid or pretend to aid any side simply to toy with them. Where are you getting all this from? Everything I've seen written in a sourcebook or added commentary from the setting designers (other than MMIV and MMV), suggests that the Outsiders of Shavarath avoid mucking around in the material plane, and are even loathe to involved creatures from the Material plane, as it dilutes and demeans the purpose of the war. I really have a very hard time picturing the sort of weirdo extraplanar alliance that you're describing here. Shavarath emphatically isn't the Blood War, and honestly, this is the most important difference.
mhacdebhandia 08-09-07, 12:16 AM	are ordinary devils much concerned with the lords of dust? While the rakshasa are the most numerous fiends native to Eberron, they are not the only children of Khyber. In my opinion, and Keith has said something similar a couple of times, there are "native" examples of all of the different fiends of Shavarath, Mabar, et cetera to be found in Eberron itself - like the rakshasas, they served the rajahs in the Age of Demons, and may belong to the Lords of Dust today. That said, there's also the Dragon magazine article on the Lords of Dust which described Thelestes, a succubus "spirit of murder" exiled from Mabar who joined in the schemes of the Lords of Dust. There's no reason why a rare diabolical exile from the armies of Shavarath couldn't end up in a similar circumstance. Generally, though, I prefer to keep the Lords of Dust an alliance of native fiends - rakshasas, demons, devils, yugoloths, all that good stuff.
ArcTan 08-09-07, 01:47 AM	While the rakshasa are the most numerous fiends native to Eberron, they are not the only children of Khyber. In my opinion, and Keith has said something similar a couple of times, there are "native" examples of all of the different fiends of Shavarath, Mabar, et cetera to be found in Eberron itself - like the rakshasas, they served the rajahs in the Age of Demons, and may belong to the Lords of Dust today Keith has said that's how he runs his home game, but this isn't "official" for Eberron -- no mention of things like native Pit Fiends has ever been made in official texts, probably because it would create confusion. Keith's also said that while something like a Khyber Pit Fiend might have the game statistics as a MM Pit Fiend, for convenience, he does consider it to be a different "species" from the Fernia Pit Fiends, with a very different appearance and very different set of motivations. I myself would not rule that every single MM fiend exists in Khyber -- I would pick and choose for the "weirdest" ones, the flavor being that the Rakshasa are the only horrors of Khyber normal enough to be willing and able to deal with the deception of pretending to be human and messing with life on the surface, and that the other fiends of Khyber are infinitely more horrifying and bizarre. I'd try to keep the more humanoid-looking fiends out of the list -- I think, for instance, that Thelestes is one of the very few Succubi who exist in Khyber because Succubi can normally only be found in Mabar. It's the same reason that KB has expressed distaste for converting Archfiends as Rakshasa Rajahs -- the Rajahs shouldn't be anything so "ordinary" or recognizable as most Archfiends are, they should be creatures unique to the Eberron universe. If you must put Demogorgon in, downgrade him to a Lesser Power of Khyber -- let the Overlords retain their unique identity.
heirodule 08-09-07, 10:11 AM	While the rakshasa are the most numerous fiends native to Eberron, they are not the only children of Khyber. In my opinion, and Keith has said something similar a couple of times, there are "native" examples of all of the different fiends of Shavarath, Mabar, et cetera to be found in Eberron itself - like the rakshasas, they served the rajahs in the Age of Demons, and may belong to the Lords of Dust today. That said, there's also the Dragon magazine article on the Lords of Dust which described Thelestes, a succubus "spirit of murder" exiled from Mabar who joined in the schemes of the Lords of Dust. There's no reason why a rare diabolical exile from the armies of Shavarath couldn't end up in a similar circumstance. Generally, though, I prefer to keep the Lords of Dust an alliance of native fiends - rakshasas, demons, devils, yugoloths, all that good stuff. So if an erynies is teamed up with a rakshasa, its a native erynies from kyber, not from shavarath. That's the main distinction to keep in mind?
naturax 08-09-07, 10:43 AM	What ever happened to the Dust Devil spell anyways? I'd love to see the Lords of Dust Devils somewhere in 3.5
ArcTan 08-13-07, 12:12 AM	So if an erynies is teamed up with a rakshasa, its a native erynies from kyber, not from shavarath. That's the main distinction to keep in mind? It probably doesn't look much like an Erinyes from the Monster Manual, doesn't call itself an "Erinyes" (or whatever name the standard Erinyes from the Outer Planes have in your world) and is only similar to regular Erinyes, not related -- just like, say, an Axiomatic Animal from Daanvi is only similar to real Animals, not biologically related to them.
mhacdebhandia 08-13-07, 02:54 AM	Yes, actually, I'm looking forward to visually redesigning the standard demons for my Eberron-adapted Savage Tide campaign.