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| bykov107-10-07, 10:09 AM | Good Morning All: In our campaign, we are poising for a re-emergence of the the Mark of Death. I have seen several posters mention their campaign have similar story lines. Our campaign will eventually lead to the emergence of 13 Khyber Dragonmarks from the ranks of the Aberrant Marks. Actually, it will be a series of campaigns that will eventually lead to a new War of the Mark. Anyhow, I thought I would share my take on the SLEs of our Mark of Death. I am looking forward to receiving feedback and seeing if anyone else has generated something similar. Mark of Death Race: Elf Least: Chill Touch* (1/day) or Touch of Fatigue (2/day) +2 to saves vs. Death spells/effects +1 to caster level for Death spells Dragonmark Prodigy: Chill of the Grave (1/day) or Spirit Worm (1/day) Lesser: Death Knell* (2/day) or False Life* (2/day) or Ray of Exhaustion (1/day) or Vampiric Touch* (1/day) Dragonmark Adept: Death Armor (2/day) or Speak w/ Dead (1/day) Greater: Enervation* (2/day) or Slay Living* (1/day) or Magic Jar (1/day) Dragonmark Visionary: Avasculate (1/day) or Waves of Exhaustion (1/day) Syberis: Finger of Death (1/day) or Trap the Soul (1/day) * - Mentioned in Least, Lesser & Greater Aberrant Feats as SLE's I look forward to your input and seeing your variations. Bykov. |
| TiwazTyrsfist07-10-07, 11:34 AM | My version. Mark of Death Race: Elf, Half-elf (Elven Half-Dragon) Least: Deathwatch (1/day) or Cause Fear (1/day) +2 on intimidate checks Dragonmark Prodigy: Summon Undead I (1/day) or Spirit Worm (1/day) Lesser: Enervation (1/day) or Animate Dead (1/day) Dragonmark Adept: Negative Energy Aura (1/day) or Rejuvinate Corpse (1/day) or Summon Undead III (1/day) Greater: Create Undead (1/day) or Slay Living (1/day) Dragonmark Visionary: Opalescent Glare (1/day) or Summon Undead V (1/day) Syberis: Create Greater Undead (1/day) or Wail of the Banshee (1/day) I include the undead stuff, because Vol is the only example of someone with the MoD, and she's pretty heavy into the undead. I have this suspicion that Erandis somehow managed to become a lich through the use of her dragonmark, rather than through the normal ritual. |
| bykov107-10-07, 01:03 PM | I pondered the undead aspect also. My philosophy on the dragonmarks is that they are not in and of themselves "evil". Though I feel at times the "evil" moniker is thrown around pretty liberally for the spell descriptors, I do believe that the manipulation of corpses to be deserving of that label. The perception was more towards the life draining/taking aspect. A few of the SLEs I used were those supplied by the Dragonmarked supplement (Vampiric Touch, Enervation, & Slay Living). In fact they inspired (handed to the reader) 4 or 5 "Lost Mark" themes. Overall though, I like your placement of the Summon Undeads. Enervation may be a little too powerful for a Lesser Mark. If I were to go with an undead mindset for the Mark of Death, I think this weighs out pretty good. In regards to Half-Dragon. My perception is that the use of dragon in the bloodline was too increase the power of the Mark of Death. Is that the correct assertation? If so, could a 1/2 dragon integrate with any mark to make it more powerful. Thanks! Bykov. |
| TiwazTyrsfist07-10-07, 01:35 PM | Possibly replace ennervation with Vapiric Touch. I went with Ennervation, because it fit the flavor of "death" and fell in the correct spell level range. Least: 0th level (2/day) or 1st lvl (1/day) Lesser: 3rd or 4th (1/day) Greater: 5th or 6th (and one with a 7th) (1/day) Siberys: Mostly 8th, a couple 9th (1/day) As for the half dragon thing, I'm not sure either. I put in in parenthesis because it happened in the cannon, but probably falls into the category of unusual exceptions. We won't know for certain until another dragon tries something very stupid. ________________________________________ ______________________________________ That aside, on the topic of 'evil' spells/dragonmarks, I think it's important to remember that good and evil are much less set in Eberron than in other settings. In FR or Greyhawk for example, a character with my version of the MoD would certainly be considered evil, or at least cursed. But in Eberron, a Lawful Good cleric can prepare and cast inflict spells or create undead without violating their alignment. If you cast Ennervation on a villain to protect the innocent, you've committed a good act, even though you channeled negative energy. If you're in Karrn fighting on behalf of the Karrn army, and a beloved Hero falls, and you use Create Undead (or is it Create Greater Undead?) to turn him into a Dread Marshal, people will cheer you. You will be a hero yourself, for returning this great hero to the battle, for saving him from the oblivion of death. So, for the purposes of Eberron, creating undead isn't an inherently evil act in my opinion. Distasteful certainly, disturbing as well, but not evil. |
| Sarlax07-10-07, 01:54 PM | Though I feel at times the "evil" moniker is thrown around pretty liberally for the spell descriptors, I do believe that the manipulation of corpses to be deserving of that label. That's pretty rough for the Undying Court. |
| bykov107-10-07, 03:02 PM | That's pretty rough for the Undying Court. True....I will definitely need to rethink my stance....or atleast not be so hardlined. :-) Bykov. |
| bykov107-11-07, 07:07 PM | Well, I did some digging and rereading... - According to ECS, the Mark of Death did encompass aspects relating to the undead. - Also from ECS, the Matriarch of Vol "used her powers over death to make sure her beloved daughter survived." It also says that Erandis became a Lich. However, it does not directly say that the matriarch transformed Erandis. So with that, I was thinking that there is the possibility that the following could also be thought to be powers of the Mark of Death... Magic Jar (Greater) Trap the Soul (Syberis) Any more thoughts out there in TV land? Bykov. |
| bykov107-12-07, 08:29 PM | Mark of Death - Undead Variant Race: Elf Least: Chill Touch* (1/day), Command Undead (1/day) or Touch of Fatigue (2/day) Ability to Turn/Rebuke undead +2 to Turn/Rebuke checks Dragonmark Prodigy: Chill of the Grave (1/day) or Summon Undead I (1/day) Lesser: Death Knell* (2/day) or False Life* (2/day) or Animate Dead (1/day) or Vampiric Touch* (1/day) Dragonmark Adept: Summon Undead III (1/day) or Speak w/ Dead (1/day) Greater: Enervation* (2/day) or Slay Living* (1/day) or Magic Jar (1/day) Dragonmark Visionary: Awaken/Create Undead (1/day) or Summon Undead V (1/day) Syberis: Finger of Death (1/day) or Trap the Soul (1/day) * - Mentioned in Least, Lesser & Greater Aberrant Feats as SLE's |
| bykov107-13-07, 07:32 AM | Has this topic been talked to 'death', per se? I am really suprised that there is very little discussion. Bykov. |
| TiwazTyrsfist07-13-07, 04:00 PM | Well, this particular thread has appeared in various incarnations, probably about once every two months since the Eberron board opened. I've been directed to dead threads about this from 2004 before. Litterally from within a month of the ECS being published. |
| bykov107-13-07, 10:11 PM | According to the sourcebooks, Erandis is trying to manipulate her bloodline into manifesting the mark again. This seems to imply a singular bloodline, where as the rest of the houses have multiple (or non-specified) family lines making up their membership. From this, one would surmise that Vol has multiple bloodlines to track down and manipulate. Just food for thought. Back to the grindstone. Bykov. |
| Edymnion07-13-07, 10:45 PM | Actually, she's just trying to find ANY living relatives that could possibly be able to manifest the mark. Which is what I make her driving force in my games. Sure, she's ancient, twisted, and evil, but I keep her underlying motive the same as it was the day she died. She's a scared little girl that just wants her family back. And yes, remember that House Vol was the house of negative powered undead, not of killing people. I also cannot think of any of the true marks that give direct combat attack powers (although the Mark of Warding can come close), so I honestly don't think the Mark of Death should have anything like Slay Living, or any other power that can directly kill anyone. It should instead have powers like Gentle Repose, Detect Undead, Hide from Undead, with the higher marks granting things like Summon Undead. None of them should have direct "kill your enemies" combat applications, IMO. |
| Rekko07-14-07, 08:27 AM | Originally posted on Erandis d'Vol Encyclopedia (and more) (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=11814225#post11814225), here's my work in progress for a stated out Mark of Death. This is an interesting story. The Mark of Death having similarities with Aberrant Dragonmarks. Aberrant Dragonmarks aren't the mixing of dragonmarked character's blood? An elf possessing an Aberrant Mark similar to the Mark of Death would most likely catch Erandis' high interest. Maybe the Aberrant Mark bearer is a distant relative of Vol? ------------------------------------ As for my personal opinion on the Mark of Death, I prefer the mark as being used for funeral services, death prevention powers and resurrection ability. Also, I would see House Vol as marginal elves who are breaking a few customs by working with undeads instead of deathless. However, this doesn't mean that the mark needs to include animate dead or create undead, but it means House Vol's spellcasters would use them. Here are a few spells that I see could fit the Mark of Death and/or fit the House Vol’s spellcasters. I also wrote how they could use it. All spells come from the PHB. Animate dead (lvl 3-4): create skeletons and zombies for different tasks calm emotions (lvl 2): calms ‘extreme’ emotions at funeral Clone (lvl 8): Life insurance, prevents death in some way. Death Knell (lvl 2): slay agonizing people. Death ward (lvl 4-5): protects from death effects Deathwatch (lvl 1): determine living conditions Finger of death (lvl 7-8): slay living Flesh to stone/Stone to flesh (lvl 6): create statues and tombs at the image of the deceased . Gentle repose (lvl 2-3): prevents rotting, preserves corpse Inflicts: slay agonizing or living people and heals undead. Legend lore (lvl 6-7): pronounce the deeds of deceased at funeral Mending (lvl 0): repair deceased clothing Raise dead (lvl 5): Give out life insurance “we raise you the day next of your death” Resurrection (lvl 7): Life insurance “please preserve by body and raise me in a year” Soul Bind (lvl 9): Preserve souls to prevent resurrection or until the date of a planned True Resurrection. Speak with Dead (lvl 3): ask dead last will, what’s the true cause of their death. Spectral hand (lvl 2): delivers range touch spells (used on battlefields) Temporal stasis (lvl 8): corpse preservation (for clone, or other) True Resurrection (lvl 9): Life insurance “raise me in 50 years” Wish (lvl 9): ouch, too many possibilities, dying wish (for example, “I wish that my daughter Erandis becomes a lich to survive this extermination”) (Magic jar lvl5) : interesting spell, but I don’t see it’s utility into the house, for now. The Least Mark of Death could give +2 to knowledge (religion), or profession(funeral rites), or perform(oratory), or even craft(coffin) There may be other spells I skipped or forgot about. As for Create Undead / Summon Undead, I don't see why the Mark of Death would create/summon undead other than zombies and skeletons. It is way out of the fluff IMO to make the Mark of Death create ghouls, vampires and liches. I know Kaius was turned into a vampire by Erandis and Erandis was turned into a lich by her mother, but I really don't think the Mark could do that sort of thing. Rekko |
| bykov107-15-07, 12:30 AM | As for Create Undead / Summon Undead, I don't see why the Mark of Death would create/summon undead other than zombies and skeletons. It is way out of the fluff IMO to make the Mark of Death create ghouls, vampires and liches. I know Kaius was turned into a vampire by Erandis and Erandis was turned into a lich by her mother, but I really don't think the Mark could do that sort of thing. I agree on the Create Undead aspect. In my view the mark generates these powers, I believe that the create undead aspect is too complex to have in a mark SLE. However, with the MoD having influence over the undead, I do not think the Summon Undead spells are too huge since other marks (well atleast Vadalis) have summoning capabilities. Also, Kaius was turned into a vampire after Erandis was a lich, it would have been her necromantic skills that turned him into a vampire, not her mark. Bykov. |
| bykov107-17-07, 10:46 AM | ... And yes, remember that House Vol was the house of negative powered undead, not of killing people. I also cannot think of any of the true marks that give direct combat attack powers (although the Mark of Warding can come close), so I honestly don't think the Mark of Death should have anything like Slay Living, or any other power that can directly kill anyone. It should instead have powers like Gentle Repose, Detect Undead, Hide from Undead, with the higher marks granting things like Summon Undead. None of them should have direct "kill your enemies" combat applications, IMO. First, I don't believe the marks manifested to revolve around saleable services. I do not believe whichever force cause this manifestation was concerned about the fiscal futures of whomever received this boon (or bane). To that end, it has neither been said, nor implied that the Mark of Death was concerned with the saleable aspects of death. I know you directly have not said this, however several threads have supported this idea in the past, and for me, that would be the primary reason for Gentle Repose and the like. Second, it has been stated by reliable sources (read Keith Baker) that the Mark of Death was a very powerful mark. To that end, it would explain why the Elves & Dragons felt the need to eliminate it completely. This thought process was only heightened by the aberrant cross-breeding of elves with dragons by House Vol. Finally, this second point is supported by the aberrant abilities that were supplied to us via the Dragonmarked supplement. Chill Touch, Death Knell, False Life, Enervation, & Slay Living were all listed as aberrant abilities. The final page of the supplement pointed out the influence over Death, Fire, Plague and the like. To say they are mutually exclusive would be erroneous, IMO. However, I do agree, just by its existance, the Mark of Death is overpowering. Its use in any campaign must be tempored by the obvious and plentiful checks and balances established in the ECS and supporting material. In the end, I really can't see the Mark of Death being a complacent, non-offensive mark. There were reasons it was feared and eventually "run out of town". I believe that, in and of itself, is support for the mark's power. Thanks, Bykov. |
| Edymnion07-17-07, 10:11 PM | Finally, this second point is supported by the aberrant abilities that were supplied to us via the Dragonmarked supplement. Chill Touch, Death Knell, False Life, Enervation, & Slay Living were all listed as aberrant abilities. The final page of the supplement pointed out the influence over Death, Fire, Plague and the like. To say they are mutually exclusive would be erroneous, IMO.Actually, I would say that points pretty squarely at those spells *NOT* being viable options for the Mark of Death's powers, as they are pretty much mutually exclusive. We have not seen any abberant mark replicate the abilities of a true dragonmark. If we have abberant marks with chill touch, death knell, slay living, etc, then those powers must not be powers of a true dragonmark, and hence could not be powers of the Mark of Death. Perhaps take another route. What if they main advantage of the MoD, in the terms of it being a powerful mark, aren't the spells it gives, but the side bonus? The Mark of Handling gives +2 to Handle Animal checks as a side bonus. We know that Erandis was made into a Lich by her mother, apparently with little or no advanced warning. What if the side benefit to the MoD is the ability to ignore material components when casting necromancy spells? The mark was so powerful because it let d'Vols animated dead without the need for onix gems, or to lich someone without the need for a phylactory? |
| bykov107-17-07, 10:37 PM | Actually, I would say that points pretty squarely at those spells *NOT* being viable options for the Mark of Death's powers, as they are pretty much mutually exclusive. We have not seen any abberant mark replicate the abilities of a true dragonmark. If we have abberant marks with chill touch, death knell, slay living, etc, then those powers must not be powers of a true dragonmark, and hence could not be powers of the Mark of Death. Sleet Storm. Now granted, this may be a jump of logic on my part, but it seems too coincidental that those abilities are listed as aberrant abilities and fit *well* into certain mark progressions. Thus, my theory that aberrant marks are the building blocks to true marks. On a side note, I am also pondering in my game, allowing all marked abilities to be chosen by aberrants. It would only make sense considering my thought process for the "evolution" of true marks. Would be weaker representative of the true marks, since aberrants do not get the skill bonuses, nor the Adept/Prodigy/Visionary progressions. Perhaps take another route. What if they main advantage of the MoD, in the terms of it being a powerful mark, aren't the spells it gives, but the side bonus? The Mark of Handling gives +2 to Handle Animal checks as a side bonus. We know that Erandis was made into a Lich by her mother, apparently with little or no advanced warning. What if the side benefit to the MoD is the ability to ignore material components when casting necromancy spells? ECS did imply that pretty heavily with out right saying that. She did protect her daughter. I was also thinking along those line a little. Maybe a +2 to Knowldge (Alchemy)....but that might zone in to specifically to just making the potion for lichdom. Where as Magic Jar and Trap the Soul can manipulate the soul for other purposes....even if it is just a creative way to kill people. I never did like the +2 to Intimidate that everyone gives death. SUre it makes good sense, but it feels like a cop out. Are all the powerful marks that don't have an easy niche going to give a +2 to Intimidate? What about Flame, or Plague? However, I do like the ignoring material components, definitely a new take on it. Also, I believe that would become too broken. The mark was so powerful because it let d'Vols animated dead without the need for onix gems, or to lich someone without the need for a phylactory? Never thought about it. Doesn't Vol have a Phylactery? If she doesn't, would that mean she is trapped in her lifeless body and once "killed", she is "dead"? On the other hand, I have heard the theories that Vol is looking for someone with a Mark of Death so that she can jump into that body. Which would be pointless, unless she can assume control of that body and it still functions as a living body or maybe the Mark in and of itself would allow such a transformation. Always a pleasure Edy, Bykov. |
| lukelightning07-18-07, 04:32 PM | I'd say the Mark of Death transcends known dragonmark abilities. What can it do? It give you the ability to cast an unlimited range destruction on any dragonmarked individual that you know. |
| Edymnion07-18-07, 07:57 PM | Never thought about it. Doesn't Vol have a Phylactery? If she doesn't, would that mean she is trapped in her lifeless body and once "killed", she is "dead"?TMK, her phylactory is never mentioned one way or another. But yes, if she doesn't have one, or has lost it over the millenia, then she cannot respawn after her current body is destroyed. Which gives her a MUCH differant feel, IMO. If she doesn't have a phylactory, she knows that dead is dead, and will stay out of harm's way at any cost. Means she's more of the mastermind manipulator that never puts herself into the thick of things. If she does have a phylactory, she knows she can't truely be killed, so she is more likely to wade into combat personally, just to break up the monotony if nothing else. |
| bykov107-18-07, 09:02 PM | If she does have a phylactory, she knows she can't truely be killed, so she is more likely to wade into combat personally, just to break up the monotony if nothing else. Gotta love that :) . Wholesale bloodshed to break up the monotony of that 9 to 5. hehehe. Bykov. |
| Rekko07-19-07, 02:37 AM | Horcrux anyone? (sorry the Deathly Hollows is out Saturday) What if Vol had multiple phylalcteries, as if she would have cloned them, or simply built more over time. |
| bykov107-19-07, 07:12 AM | Horcrux anyone? (sorry the Deathly Hollows is out Saturday) What if Vol had multiple phylalcteries, as if she would have cloned them, or simply built more over time. Would that work? Contingent Magic Jar's? Wouldn't that be fuzzy. Bykov. |
| Rekko07-19-07, 10:08 AM | Magic Jar is a spell to attempt possessing a creature. |
| bykov107-19-07, 11:08 AM | Magic Jar is a spell to attempt possessing a creature. How would/could it work? Bykov. |
| Edymnion07-19-07, 12:39 PM | What if Vol had multiple phylalcteries, as if she would have cloned them, or simply built more over time.The rules do not cover building additional phylactories, either all at once or after the destruction of the original. A case could be made against multiple functioning phylactories, as part of the enchantment process is putting your soul into it, and you obviously can't put one soul into a dozen phylactories (and no, this isn't Harry Potter, you can't split up your soul). If you are allowed to repeate the process after one is destroyed, you could have the physical vessels already made and just waiting to be enchanted, but you'd still need to actually do the enchanting. This is assuming, of course, that the soul returns to the undead body after the phylactory is destroyed, which again isn't stated one way or the other. |
| Rekko07-19-07, 01:39 PM | Vol is already a unique creature being a half-green dragon elf lich. Why not make her have multiple phylacteries, which emphasis her unique flair. Maybe she created the spell or ritual to split her soul. I know it isn't Harry Potter, but D&D is only limited by your imagination. Ok, you still need it to make it work somehow, or what would be the point of playing, but having multiple phylacteries isn't that much broken. It only adds role-playing, story and intrigue. Rekko |
| Sarlax07-19-07, 03:33 PM | The rules do not cover building additional phylactories, They do. The details are in Libris Mortis and are official game rules. |
| Nightshade07-19-07, 04:19 PM | I don't know if this has been mentioned before but your Cause Fear Least Mark of Death is not viable. It is already an Aberrant Dragonmark. My version. Mark of Death Race: Elf, Half-elf (Elven Half-Dragon) Least: Deathwatch (1/day) or Cause Fear (1/day) +2 on intimidate checks Dragonmark Prodigy: Summon Undead I (1/day) or Spirit Worm (1/day) Lesser: Enervation (1/day) or Animate Dead (1/day) Dragonmark Adept: Negative Energy Aura (1/day) or Rejuvinate Corpse (1/day) or Summon Undead III (1/day) Greater: Create Undead (1/day) or Slay Living (1/day) Dragonmark Visionary: Opalescent Glare (1/day) or Summon Undead V (1/day) Syberis: Create Greater Undead (1/day) or Wail of the Banshee (1/day) I include the undead stuff, because Vol is the only example of someone with the MoD, and she's pretty heavy into the undead. I have this suspicion that Erandis somehow managed to become a lich through the use of her dragonmark, rather than through the normal ritual. |
| TiwazTyrsfist07-19-07, 05:08 PM | I don't know if this has been mentioned before but your Cause Fear Least Mark of Death is not viable. It is already an Aberrant Dragonmark. It has been mentioned, yes. However, I am of the opinion (and will be until Hellcow says overtly otherwise) that the 'abberant' dragonmarks are linked to the 'true' dragonmarks more closely than the Dragonmarked houses are comfortable with. If we were to completely wipe out House Jorasco down to the last child, who's to say that within a few thousand years people wouldn't start to develop abberant marks of cure light wounds? |
| Belkar07-19-07, 05:37 PM | I know it isn't Harry Potter, but D&D is only limited by your imagination. Ok, you still need it to make it work somehow, or what would be the point of playing, but having multiple phylacteries isn't that much broken. It only adds role-playing, story and intrigue. In an old high level campaign we played back in the day, our party wizard "Cloned" himself at the first opportunity, confident in the knowledge that if he ever died - his meat-puppet body would be waiting underneath his manse. Several sessions later, when the campaign had already gone epic, this fellow kind of forgot about his "cool" clone and decided to head down a different path... lichdom. Indeed, he became a lich... and got killed one session later by a rather zealous cleric of an NPC. He re-manifested with his phylactery - halfway across the world. Determined not to be so inconvenienced again, and not to have to trudge through campaign mud to get his items back, he (rather unwisely) decided to carry his phylactery on his person from that day forth. And of course, a few adventures later, he and all his possessions were completely incinerated. With his phylactery destroyed... his soul found its way back to his much lower level and not-undead clone. He'd forgotten about it. Hilarity ensued. (Much later, we got into it with the DM about whether the clone would still be there or even function after the transfer to lichdom... but meh. It's a fun story.) ;) |
| bykov107-21-07, 04:00 PM | The rules do not cover building additional phylactories,... They do. The details are in Libris Mortis and are official game rules. Aumvor's Fragmented Phylactery - Champions of Ruin - p.37 It is an epic level spell that allows you to either fragment your current phylactery or divide your current phylactory with several other vessels. All phylacteries would need to be destroyed in order to destroy the lich. The fragmented/divided phylacteries can also be divided/shared again via use of this spell. Bykov. |
| xstormtrooperx07-22-07, 09:51 AM | Summon Undead is a really bad fit imho, giving the short duration. How about Charm Undead? |
| Dvaczilla307-22-07, 10:16 PM | This topic is really interesting, and I've been thinking about bringing the thirteenth mark into my game, but other than the spell like abilities such a mark may or may not supply, what are some of the ideas people have about bringing the mark back in their game? After all, the important stuff in eberron comes in quantities of thirteen. Isn't each mark tied to one of the moons? And isn't it true that if True Ressurection is cast on an undead creature, it becomes its living self again, and therefore if Vol herself were resurrected, then she could go on to propagate the mark, or would her very old age apply retroactively, so that as soon as she gets res'd, she would die of old age (I never felt it would, because you don't really age when you are undead, but that's up to the individual)? |
| bykov107-23-07, 10:49 AM | Summon Undead is a really bad fit imho, giving the short duration. How about Charm Undead? If you mean Control Undead (I could not find a "Charm Undead"), it would be too high of caster level for a Dragonmark Prodigy SLA (CL 7). Considering that the Dragonmark Prodigy is available at earliest to a 3rd level character, I think you are right in terms of duration. Unless you take Dragonmarked Heir prestige class.....which is difficult without a House of Vol. I have seen quite a few listings that rework dragonmark caster level to equal character level, including the Eberron DDO. In that case, I would think the duration would be about right. Bykov. |
| bykov107-23-07, 12:51 PM | I am sure everyone has seen the +2 to Intimidate skill checks as a possible boon to the Mark of Death. As you can see from my posts, I have gone a less traditional route...a +2 to saves vs.Death spells/effect & +1 to caster level for Death based spells. IMHO, the Mark of Death should pack something a bit more, somthing that compliments that mark well. So, with me being enlightened to the Undeath aspects of the Mark of Death, I was pondering if granting a bearer of said mark could bestow the ability to Turn/Rebuke Undead. Maybe also add in a +2 to Turn/Rebuke Checks to boot. This gives us a few decent options: 1) +2 to Intimidate skill checks 2) +2 on Saves vs. Death spells/effects & +1 to CL for Death based spells 3) Ability to Turn/Rebuke Undead & +2 to Turn/Rebuke Checks Thanks for reading. Bykov. |
| xstormtrooperx07-23-07, 12:58 PM | If you mean Control Undead (I could not find a "Charm Undead"), it would be too high of caster level for a Dragonmark Prodigy SLA (CL 7). Considering that the Dragonmark Prodigy is available at earliest to a 3rd level character, I think you are right in terms of duration. Unless you take Dragonmarked Heir prestige class.....which is difficult without a House of Vol. I have seen quite a few listings that rework dragonmark caster level to equal character level, including the Eberron DDO. In that case, I would think the duration would be about right. Bykov. Command Undead Necromancy Level: Sor/Wiz 2 Components: V, S, M Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels) Targets: One undead creature Duration: One day/level Saving Throw: Will negates; see text Spell Resistance: Yes This spell allows you some degree of control over an undead creature. Assuming the subject is intelligent, it perceives your words and actions in the most favorable way (treat its attitude as friendly). It will not attack you while the spell lasts. You can try to give the subject orders, but you must win an opposed Charisma check to convince it to do anything it wouldn’t ordinarily do. (Retries are not allowed.) An intelligent commanded undead never obeys suicidal or obviously harmful orders, but it might be convinced that something very dangerous is worth doing. A nonintelligent undead creature gets no saving throw against this spell. When you control a mindless being, you can communicate only basic commands, such as “come here,” “go there,” “fight,” “stand still,” and so on. Nonintelligent undead won’t resist suicidal or obviously harmful orders. Any act by you or your apparent allies that threatens the commanded undead (regardless of its Intelligence) breaks the spell. Your commands are not telepathic. The undead creature must be able to hear you. Material Component: A shred of raw meat and a splinter of bone. |
| bykov107-23-07, 01:46 PM | Command Undead...<clip unnecessary spell description>... It amazes me that I went from Charm to Control in the PHB and missed Command. :eek: Though, stating "Command Undead" would have sufficed. I like it though. Personally, I would maintain the Summon Undeads, but I like this for a Least mark ability. Thanx! Bykov. |
| lukelightning07-23-07, 07:36 PM | My interpretation of the lich phylactery is that it doesn't contain the lich's soul until the lich is killed. Until then, it is just an empty, very pricey, magic item. So there is no reason the lich can't have more than one without; it wouldn't require the lich to split its soul, just to spend the xp and gp to make multiple phylacteries. |
| TiwazTyrsfist07-23-07, 10:03 PM | Well, I know that back in second ed (and I'm pretty sure it's still true in 3.5) part of creating your phylacrity is casting magic jar to trap your own soul in the gem that's the core of the phylacrity. Now this may have changed, but I think that's still true, so the liches soul is in the phylacrity. |
| bykov107-25-07, 09:31 AM | This topic is really interesting, and I've been thinking about bringing the thirteenth mark into my game, but other than the spell like abilities such a mark may or may not supply, what are some of the ideas people have about bringing the mark back in their game? Well, bringing the mark back in is relatively basic. It would manifest on an elf. The big question is, would you have it manifest on a PC or an NPC? Once this mark manifests, it becomes a serious bane for the target. Once the mark becomes known, straight off you will have several factions vying for control over that person and his/her mark. 1) Erandis d'Vol and the Blood of Vol/Emerald Claw will zealously pursue the person to control the mark. 2) Silver Flame will do everything in their power to make sure Vol does not attain the mark, probably to the end of imprisonment or elimination. 3) The Stillborn, fearing the ramifications on the tenuous peace between the elves and the dragons would attempt to eliminate it. Success would also feed into their belief that this would bring them great honor in their pursuit of entering the Undying Court. 4) The Chamber would pursue the Mark for either the elimination or the studying of the mark, depending on which faction gets to the mark first. These aren't an either/or sort of thing. All of these would happen, giving up would not be an option. I am sure other parties would be interested in getting their hands on the character for their own ends. In the end, if it manifests on a PC, the character will most likely end up being retired either via death, capture or going into hiding. But it could be alot of fun to see how long a character could last in this sort of environment. One would have to think long and hard before bringing this into a campaign and be prepared for the ramifications of such actions. Bykov. |
| yewshadow07-25-07, 11:01 AM | Well, bringing the mark back in is relatively basic. IMHO, all the seeds for the resurgence of the thirteenth true mark are right there. House Thuranni provides a second dragonmarked house of elves whose base of operations is suspiciously close to Illmarrow Castle. It was information from the Emerald Claw that prompted the Phiarlan/Thuranni shadow schism in the first place. Throw in Erandis, an eldritch machine or epic ritual involving the blood of vol (the substance, not the organization.) Or perhaps the Thuranni had some blood connection to the Vol line already. Good Ol' Baron Elar may already be carrying the MoD! Any thoughts? :plotting: |
| TiwazTyrsfist07-25-07, 01:31 PM | IMHO, all the seeds for the resurgence of the thirteenth true mark are right there. House Thuranni provides a second dragonmarked house of elves whose base of operations is suspiciously close to Illmarrow Castle. It was information from the Emerald Claw that prompted the Phiarlan/Thuranni shadow schism in the first place. Throw in Erandis, an eldritch machine or epic ritual involving the blood of vol (the substance, not the organization.) Or perhaps the Thuranni had some blood connection to the Vol line already. Good Ol' Baron Elar may already be carrying the MoD! Any thoughts? :plotting: I like it. I may use this as part of my "Oh :censored:, Dragonmarks!" campaign. Part 1: Fake New Dragonmark (Abberants + Chicanery) Part 2: Real New Dragonmark (Probably on Gobs/Hobgobs) Part 3: MoD (In house Thuranni) Which will really mess with the one dragonmarked character in the group, since he's MoShadows from House Thuranni... "Good, Good! Now, Go kill your head of house..." |
| Hopeless07-27-07, 06:50 AM | Good Morning All: In our campaign, we are poising for a re-emergence of the the Mark of Death. I have seen several posters mention their campaign have similar story lines. Our campaign will eventually lead to the emergence of 13 Khyber Dragonmarks from the ranks of the Aberrant Marks. Actually, it will be a series of campaigns that will eventually lead to a new War of the Mark. I look forward to your input and seeing your variations. Bykov. Just a thought but when i read about this, what I wondered about explaining this was that the original dragonmarks were created by the dragons because of the losses they suffered during the war with the rajahs. There was also something else involved which i won't go into here, but in essence when Vol was born her mark was effectively corrupted because it was never intended for a half dragon, the whole point was to develop a force capable of helping the dragons fight the next war with the slumbering rajahs. When the elves and the dragons destroyed the house of vol they also insured it would be next to impossible to repair the damage done. My point is what is called the aberrant dragonmarks is actually the corrupted form of the mark of death which has been spread to pretty much all of the races as a result of the unforeseen mistake this attempt to bring the elves and dragons together. Anyway what do you think about this? |
| yewshadow07-27-07, 11:57 AM | Just a thought but when i read about this, what I wondered about explaining this was that the original dragonmarks were created by the dragons because of the losses they suffered during the war with the rajahs. There was also something else involved which i won't go into here, but in essence when Vol was born her mark was effectively corrupted because it was never intended for a half dragon, the whole point was to develop a force capable of helping the dragons fight the next war with the slumbering rajahs. When the elves and the dragons destroyed the house of vol they also insured it would be next to impossible to repair the damage done. My point is what is called the aberrant dragonmarks is actually the corrupted form of the mark of death which has been spread to pretty much all of the races as a result of the unforeseen mistake this attempt to bring the elves and dragons together. Anyway what do you think about this? Definitely an interesting take, but it may have a few problems. The dragons didn't create the dragonmarks, they watched "in awe and horror as the Prophecy" unfolded in the lesser races (ECS 224). Vol's half-dragon nature corrupting her mark and leading to aberrants is a cool idea too. The timeline may not work though. The first marks appeared in -3200, -2600 the MoD is wiped out, the War of the Mark took place in -1500. Dragonmarked p 156 says the aberrant marks "appear to have come into existence at the same time as the true dragonmarks." IMO that means the aberrents were definitely around sometime between -3200 and -2600, probably before Erandis was even born (created?). Just some food for thought... |
| Rekko07-27-07, 03:00 PM | Dragonmarks were said to have appeared on the lesser race around -3,200. However, there are dragonmarks that appear elsewhere of the flesh of the lesser races. They appear in the natural world within river patterns, coral reefs, plant/tree formation, bird migration path, star constellation, eroded cliff side, etc. The 'Land' Dragonmarks could be the creation of the Dragons manipulating themselves the Prophecy which would be a very good reason why they watched in awe and horror the Prophecy unfold upon the lesser races. And there is nothing canon about the date of the appearance of the aberrants. The only thing we got is that they appeared somewhen at the same time as the true marks. The true marks appear between -3,200 and -1,000. BTW, it isn't -3,200 YK since the 1st YK is equal to -998 on the timeline. So -3,200 means 3,200 years before the start of the campaign which is set in 998YK. So from -3,200 to -1,000, that leaves pretty much timespace from aberrants appearing around the same time as true marks. I know the War of the Mark was in -1,500, so I'd agree the abberants appeared before. Plus, between -2,600 and -1,500 is sufficient time to 'grow' an aberrant society/culture. Therefore, I have absolutly no problem with the aberrants being produced because of Vol being a half-dragon and that it corrupts her mark. I have to admit that in my game the aberrants are also caused by Vol. Because the Last Mark of Death is upon an undead it tries at the same time to resurface onto another lineage and manifest through Vol, thus creating a disturbance in the balance of the mysterious magical forces behind the appearance of the dragonmarks on the lesser race. Then, to balance thing up once more, aberrants and siberys marks appeared, but the balance is not completly restored and is utterly fragile. Rekko |
| yewshadow07-27-07, 03:33 PM | BTW, it isn't -3,200 YK since the 1st YK is equal to -998 on the timeline. So -3,200 means 3,200 years before the start of the campaign which is set in 998YK. Sorry about my faux pas with the dates. Good points, I kinda see your crazy math. So how do you think the true thirteenth mark could come back in that scenario, rekko? Or could it? |
| Rekko07-27-07, 07:11 PM | Do you mean Hopeless scenario, yours or mine? Rekko |
| bykov107-27-07, 07:19 PM | Sorry about my faux pas with the dates. Good points, I kinda see your crazy math. So how do you think the true thirteenth mark could come back in that scenario, rekko? Or could it? Well, an obvious, but highly unlikely, scenario would be the elimination of Vol. That would be a "killer" campaign. Bykov. |
| bykov108-03-07, 07:41 AM | My interpretation of the lich phylactery is that it doesn't contain the lich's soul until the lich is killed. Until then, it is just an empty, very pricey, magic item. So there is no reason the lich can't have more than one without; it wouldn't require the lich to split its soul, just to spend the xp and gp to make multiple phylacteries. I believe you are correct. IIRC, the key to eliminating a Lich is to destroy the body, then destroy the phylactery. I do not remember thinking differently, mostly because you needed to get through the lich to get to the phylactery. :) BTW, any further thoughts/comments on the (or the ones assembled here) Mark of Death? Bykov. |
| bykov108-11-07, 10:08 AM | Back along the lines of Vol possibly wanting to possess a body that manifests the Mark of Death.... Would you consider the mark to be intrinsicly linked to the host body or the soul of the host? If Vol were actually able to accomplish this tak, would the mark manifest the greater abilities that she had in life, or would she only have access to the Least Mark, but with the intrinsic knowledge to allow her to advance the Mark once possessing said individual? Food for thought. Bykov. |
| GnomeNinja08-16-07, 10:38 AM | Personally, since I have used the Mark of Death as a device for a [I]player[I], who has the Mark, I just made it simple, and not too overpowering: Take the abilities of Jorasco's Mark of Healing, and switch them to their "Inflict" cousins, or other parallels (like Heal to Harm). They heal undead and hurt the living, so it made perfect sense to me. |
| GnomeNinja08-16-07, 10:39 AM | The player is an elf sorcerer who manifested the mark spontaneously. |
| bykov108-28-07, 08:54 AM | Personally, since I have used the Mark of Death as a device for a [I]player[I], who has the Mark, I just made it simple, and not too overpowering: Take the abilities of Jorasco's Mark of Healing, and switch them to their "Inflict" cousins, or other parallels (like Heal to Harm). They heal undead and hurt the living, so it made perfect sense to me. Could you post your Mark of Death? Bykov. |
| Hopeless08-28-07, 03:21 PM | Back along the lines of Vol possibly wanting to possess a body that manifests the Mark of Death.... Would you consider the mark to be intrinsicly linked to the host body or the soul of the host? If Vol were actually able to accomplish this tak, would the mark manifest the greater abilities that she had in life, or would she only have access to the Least Mark, but with the intrinsic knowledge to allow her to advance the Mark once possessing said individual? Food for thought. Bykov. If she hasn't already figured it out, it won't work. I suspect when she was lichified by her mother she was nowhere near ready to have a clone available... well one that wouldn't become a lich as a result anyway. Even if she possessed someone else it wouldn't work as she would need the correct mixture of her family lineage and they don't exist anymore, well outside of perhaps a novel series known as the mark of death and unless she suspects something enough to have the survivors' minds read won't know otherwise. The mark apparently manifested even though she was a half dragon by birth which apparently is just as likely as a half elf bearing the mark of passage... Now if she could be ressurected? And pull off the chance of regaining her elven ancestry? Odds would be against but that depends on the dm, personally I'd go as far as her trying but this results in a lich version that thinks she's the original and the attempted version that also thinks she's the original but has to go through life until she can manifest her mark after all its been how long since she possessed it? And how long before the lich version disposes of her as a failed experiment out of cold blooded disdain that is Vol's apparent nature? |
| Highschool_Magic08-31-07, 01:09 AM | Race: Elf Bonus: +2 Fear/Death spells/effects Least: Ray of Enfeeblement 1/day OR Deathwatch 1/day Lesser: Animate Dead 1/day OR Ray of Exhaustion 1/day Greater: Circle of Death 1/day OR Deathward 1/day Syberis: Wail of the Banshee 1/day or Trap Soul 1/day Some dragonmarks have two themes among them. Example: Mark of Shadow has "shadowy stuff" or illusion magic and the gnome's themes are written communication or spoken communication. So, I wanted to do that with my Mark of Death. One inflicts pain (Ray of Enfeeblement, Ray of Exhaustion, Cirlce of Death, and Wall of the Banshee) while the other one deals with undead/death (Deathwatch, Animate Dead, Deathward, and Trap Soul). If you just narrow down your dragonmark to one theme you are just making a dragonmark on a one trick pony! If the Mark of Death still exists they would want varity among them. Some elves to defend (who have the pain inflicting marks) and get "supplies" (lol) and others to work with the dead (the one with the death marks). This is just me though..... Feats Dragonmark Adept: Death Armor 1/day or Shroud of Undeath 2/day Dragonmark Prodigy: Junlerazer 1/day or Undead Liertenant 1/day Dragonmark Visionary: Revive Undead 1/day or Aura of Terror 1/day Note:With the Wail of the Banshee isnt really a "wail". The dragonmark release a "shockwave" that kills. Also, with Trap the Soul, the dragonmark is the focus. Just a bit of fluff that will cause it to be unique. On a different note (and I dont mean to pigeon this post) have any of you really considered adding the Mark of Death into a campaign. |
| raalynthslair09-07-07, 11:47 AM | Well, I did some digging and rereading... - According to ECS, the Mark of Death did encompass aspects relating to the undead. - Also from ECS, the Matriarch of Vol "used her powers over death to make sure her beloved daughter survived." It also says that Erandis became a Lich. However, it does not directly say that the matriarch transformed Erandis. So with that, I was thinking that there is the possibility that the following could also be thought to be powers of the Mark of Death... Magic Jar (Greater) Trap the Soul (Syberis) Any more thoughts out there in TV land? Bykov. I think that that passage, while not saying she made Erandis a lich outright, pretty much eludes to that end result of the use of her mark and arcane arts. I think the mark may have suspended or preserved the body (or perhaps killed her so that the arcane part of the process could be done -- ??) at the least. |
| scrollreader09-07-07, 01:54 PM | Least Mark of Death Gentle Repose 1/day, Deathwatch 1/day, Diplomacy +2 Lesser Mark of Death False Life 1/day, Speak with Dead 1/day, Eternal Rest 1/day Eternal Rest: Target: One corpse. The corpse will not spontaneously rise as an undead creature, and any attempt to raise the creature must make a CL check (or a HD check, for (Su) abilities) against a DC of 10+ the caster level of the Dragonmarked. This ability may also be used on the remains of a destroyed undead creature, such as a ghost or lich, to prevent the creature's return. Greater Mark of Death Vampiric Touch 2/day, Death Ward 1/day, Raise Dead 1/day Siberys Mark of Death Power Word: Kill Thus was my set up, at any rate. Personally, I find Wail to be too powerful, compared to other Siberys Marks, and PW:Kill is certainly not on the same scale (though the lack of a save is certainly handy). One of the things I focused on was a business for the house. If it's to tie into the other houses at all, it needs a place for them in Khorvairan society. Also, I tend to think the corruption of Vol was their focus on the /undead/, but the original mark was probably focused, per the name on /death/. As such, they're funerarians (and sometimes, assassins). It also allows a way for DMs to include player 'restores' into Eberron without having to deal with the jury-rigged Altar of Ressurection. And of course, as a Greater Mark ability, it sufficiently limits the ability, especially if you continue to the NPC standard established in the ECS that it can be both expensive and rare enough not to be taken for granted (this is also why Raise Dead, and not a more powerful variant). In addition, I'm quite fond of actually adding something /new/ like wind's favor. Anyway, hopefully some DMs out there will find it helpful. EDIT: Adept, Prodigy and Visionary Feats would add additional options, such as Death Knell, perhaps a Euthanasia Spell (willing, non-compelled) along with several of nifty new necromancy spells outside of core. |
| bykov109-07-07, 07:45 PM | ...If it's to tie into the other houses at all, it needs a place for them in Khorvairan society... Why? I have seen this vein of logic before and it befuddles me. How do the prophetic implications of the Prophecy onto the races of Khovaire justify mercantile expansion? The marks are derived from, and part of, the prophecy. The various houses have just learned to capatilize on them, not the other way around. Is the future of Eberron looking for a great deal on services? Granted, the other houses have utilized this avenue successfully for their own gain over the generations, but I do not see this as the end all for the purposes of the marks. But lets say, yes, the Mark of Death has their own little corner store. Why must they be the morticians of Eberron? Aside from the fact that the stated influence over the undead would not be a good selling point (Oh, look, doesn't Gram-Gram make a dashing Zombie?). Could they not be the purveyors of everlasting life, ala the Undying Court? They could also be mercenary, a very common thread in the houses. Look what Erandis did for Karrnath. This isn't a direct barb at you, it is at this line of thinking. I have yet to understand the Mark of the Mortician mindset. :confused: Bykov. |
| Isran_Imrador10-02-07, 09:03 AM | The Dragonmarked houses was based on how the Aerenal noble houses where organized. So i guess the "House Erandis " was a direct compeditor to the Undying court. So not selling wind or trained animals but "selling" a diffrent religion... Trying to gain the top posision the Un C had... |
| bykov110-05-07, 10:09 AM | Summon Undead is a really bad fit imho, giving the short duration. How about Charm Undead? Been thinking about this a little more. The obvious concern would be the 1 round spell duration for Summon Undead I for a Least Dragonmark. So along this vein, One could shift SUI & SUIII to Lesser and Greater SLEs and then slide in Command Undead as a Least SLE. Bykov. |
| Edymnion10-11-07, 09:55 PM | Would you consider the mark to be intrinsicly linked to the host body or the soul of the host?Look at the mechanics. A dragonmark is a feat. If you change bodies, you still keep your feats as long as you can still meet the prereqs. So yes, if Vol could find a way to switch bodies with a living being, she could re-manifest her Mark of Death, as long as she was in an elf body. |
| bykov110-12-07, 12:52 PM | Look at the mechanics. A dragonmark is a feat. If you change bodies, you still keep your feats as long as you can still meet the prereqs. So yes, if Vol could find a way to switch bodies with a living being, she could re-manifest her Mark of Death, as long as she was in an elf body. Never quite looked at it from a strictly mechanical standpoint. If this were to happen in my campaign, I would have to say, however, that the new host body would have to have already manifested the Mark of Death. But say Erandis had a greater mark and the host had a least, it would then manifest to a greater mark within days. Very kewl. Thanks Edy. Bykov. |
| bykov111-13-07, 03:16 PM | Has anyone had the Mark of Death manifest in their campaign on a NPC or PC? How did it work for you in either case? I am about to run my PC's through Eyes of the Lich Queen and pondering the ramifications of manifesting such a mark on an elf character. Thanks. Bykov. |
| Edymnion11-14-07, 08:02 PM | Has anyone had the Mark of Death manifest in their campaign on a NPC or PC?Nope. I haven't even scratched the surface of "normal" games, much less reached the point I need to stretch to that sort of thing yet. :) |
| Rekko11-16-07, 09:28 AM | My campaign arc is all around creating an artifact to make dragonmarks stronger. It will be my players, in their choices that will decide who will be their enemies, because there can be plenty with such a storyline. Vol is an obvious villain (or ally depending of alignment), but royal families could also fit in the role, and that is only two of the many concerned. If my player chooses Vol as his enemy/ally, no doubt she'll use the artifact to make her mark of death manifest once again. Or something else... Rekko |