Mind Flayers [Archive] - Wizards Community

Mind Flayers [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Rerecros
05-21-07, 04:39 PM How do they survive on their homeworld Xoriat? They are a parasitic race, needing humanoids to feed on and reproduce from. Also, is there any oficial eberronian backstory for the ilithids and gith?
mahavira
05-21-07, 04:45 PM I think the reproduction question has been addressed, either in these forums or on an Eberron Expanded article, and one theory was that they don't reproduce via cerebromorphosis on Xoriat, it's only necessary on the Prime Material. Likewise, I'm not sure whether it was the boards or Eberron Expanded, but one theory regarding the Gith is that they were the residents of a world the Daelkir destroyed thousands of years back, and they were the source race from which Mind Flayers were created, in much the same way as hobgoblins are the source race for Dolgaunts.
The Dreaming Duck
05-22-07, 12:31 AM I'm not sure whether it was the boards or Eberron Expanded, but one theory regarding the Gith is that they were the residents of a world the Daelkir destroyed thousands of years back, and they were the source race from which Mind Flayers were created, in much the same way as hobgoblins are the source race for Dolgaunts.
It was Eberron Expanded. (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ebee/20050704a)
The Dreaming Duck
05-22-07, 12:37 AM How do they survive on their homeworld Xoriat? They are a parasitic race, needing humanoids to feed on and reproduce from.
What makes you think there's a shortage of these on Xoriat? It's not simply a world, it's an entire plane of existence... and beyond that, a plane of madness and horror. Perhaps the ilithids have herds of creatures that are nothing more than brains on legs, crafted to serve their needs.

The ECS lists creatures from the existing source material that can be found in the planes; I see no reason to assume that there aren't many new creatures unique to these worlds as well.
Vharuck
05-22-07, 05:34 PM What makes you think there's a shortage of these on Xoriat? It's not simply a world, it's an entire plane of existence... and beyond that, a plane of madness and horror. Perhaps the ilithids have herds of creatures that are nothing more than brains on legs, crafted to serve their needs.

The ECS lists creatures from the existing source material that can be found in the planes; I see no reason to assume that there aren't many new creatures unique to these worlds as well.

They keep herds of flabby, fungal humans who behave nearly as boars.

Might I suggest you read H.P. Lovecraft's Rats in the Walls. Creepy.
OgreBane99
05-22-07, 06:09 PM Man I wish I could remember exactly which sourcebook went over the gith/githyanki stuff, but one does. I'm leaning towards Magic of Eberron or Explorer's Handbook... Now I'm leaning more towards the Explorer's Handbook. I believe there is a location their of the githyanki and a small sidebar goes over their origins in Eberron. I remember the Eberron origin's being pretty similar to regular D&D.
The Dreaming Duck
05-22-07, 07:03 PM I believe there is a location their of the githyanki and a small sidebar goes over their origins in Eberron. I remember the Eberron origin's being pretty similar to regular D&D.
Which is why I personally prefer the Eberron Expanded explanation. I don't remember the book but I remember what you're talking about, and in my opinion it's lazy design. There's no evidence that the mind flayers of Eberron do enslave people; it's just a case of "I'm too lazy to come up with a good idea, so I'll just paste the old one in."

The explanation that the mind flayers were created from the gith gives the emnity an entirely new spin and expands on Eberron. Consider:
We know the daelkyr make a hobby of destroying worlds. That implies they've actually done it before.
We know that the daelkyr create horrible aberrations from existing creatures. They aren't slavers; they sweep through, transform and destroy, sweeping anything useful back to Xoriat to use in the next project.
Following this idea, there is no Gith world any more. The Githyanki went to the astral, the Gitzerai to Kythri.
Both races hate the mind flayers, because they are both dark reflections of their own race and the instruments of the destruction of their world.
It lets you keep the emnity between the races, but it makes it something different. And it gives the gith the unique role of being the proof of what could happen if the daelkyr are released - they are people who HAVE lost their world.

So I'd certainly use the Eberron Expanded version over the "Oh, yeah, mind flayers enslaved Gith here too" version.

(And while it doesn't make much of a difference, the EE version comes from the setting creator, and I know he didn't work on whatever the other sourcebook was.)
OgreBane99
05-22-07, 08:36 PM The explanation that the mind flayers were created from the gith gives the emnity an entirely new spin and expands on Eberron. Consider:
We know the daelkyr make a hobby of destroying worlds. That implies they've actually done it before.
We know that the daelkyr create horrible aberrations from existing creatures. They aren't slavers; they sweep through, transform and destroy, sweeping anything useful back to Xoriat to use in the next project.
Following this idea, there is no Gith world any more. The Githyanki went to the astral, the Gitzerai to Kythri.
Both races hate the mind flayers, because they are both dark reflections of their own race and the instruments of the destruction of their world.
It lets you keep the emnity between the races, but it makes it something different. And it gives the gith the unique role of being the proof of what could happen if the daelkyr are released - they are people who HAVE lost their world.
Wow. I just noticed that the daelkyr sound a lot like the Zerg from Starcraft....
tallric_kruush
05-22-07, 08:37 PM Man I wish I could remember exactly which sourcebook went over the gith/githyanki stuff, but one does. I'm leaning towards Magic of Eberron or Explorer's Handbook... Now I'm leaning more towards the Explorer's Handbook. I believe there is a location their of the githyanki and a small sidebar goes over their origins in Eberron. I remember the Eberron origin's being pretty similar to regular D&D.

You speak of Player's Guide to Eberron. Sadly, the stuff you refer to was in the main text, as opposed to a sidebar where recommendations of its type belong.
The Dreaming Duck
05-22-07, 09:15 PM Wow. I just noticed that the daelkyr sound a lot like the Zerg from Starcraft....
ZOMG! Dolgrim rush!!! ;)
Hellcow
05-22-07, 09:22 PM You speak of Player's Guide to Eberron.
TK is correct (it's on page 123), and as such, Dreaming Duck is mistaken - I did work on PGtE. However, I didn't write that particular piece of it. I've always played with the Gith as survivors of a destroyed world, which is why that's in the Eberron Expanded. The daelkyr turn you into your own worst enemies, corrupting your people and turning them back against you. As such, I like the idea that in Eberron, it's not simply a matter of Gith hating illithids because they were enslaved - but rather that the mind flayer is a living symbol of the destruction of their world and their failure to resist the daelkyr.
Rerecros
05-22-07, 10:55 PM Which is why I personally prefer the Eberron Expanded explanation. I don't remember the book but I remember what you're talking about, and in my opinion it's lazy design. There's no evidence that the mind flayers of Eberron do enslave people; it's just a case of "I'm too lazy to come up with a good idea, so I'll just paste the old one in."

The explanation that the mind flayers were created from the gith gives the emnity an entirely new spin and expands on Eberron. Consider:
We know the daelkyr make a hobby of destroying worlds. That implies they've actually done it before.
We know that the daelkyr create horrible aberrations from existing creatures. They aren't slavers; they sweep through, transform and destroy, sweeping anything useful back to Xoriat to use in the next project.
Following this idea, there is no Gith world any more. The Githyanki went to the astral, the Gitzerai to Kythri.
Both races hate the mind flayers, because they are both dark reflections of their own race and the instruments of the destruction of their world.
It lets you keep the emnity between the races, but it makes it something different. And it gives the gith the unique role of being the proof of what could happen if the daelkyr are released - they are people who HAVE lost their world.

So I'd certainly use the Eberron Expanded version over the "Oh, yeah, mind flayers enslaved Gith here too" version.

(And while it doesn't make much of a difference, the EE version comes from the setting creator, and I know he didn't work on whatever the other sourcebook was.)

I like your explaination. Though I'd like you to expand more on the gith.
Mainly, what caused the schism of the gith races, and what the githanki use as building materials without dead gods.
CannibalSmith
05-28-07, 08:20 AM ZOMG! Dolgrim rush!!! ;) Hell, it's about time! (http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/7751/itsabouttimead2.jpg)
Lord_Madrigan
05-28-07, 02:45 PM I like your explaination. Though I'd like you to expand more on the gith.
Mainly, what caused the schism of the gith races, and what the githanki use as building materials without dead gods.

The Gith schism is one of Blame.
Each faction Blames the other for the release of the daelkyr
and destruction of there homeworld.

The Githzarai view being that the lich queen's mad quest for
power opened the doors of Xoriat called fourth the daelkyr.

The githyanki view is that the githzarai's refusal to unite under
the banner of the lich queen left them too divided and weak
to mount an effective resistance

As for Building materials.
The githyanki shift left over Fragments of Worlds destroyed by the daelkyr
into the astral plane
Rerecros
05-28-07, 03:33 PM :plotting: thanx
mahavira
05-28-07, 06:16 PM I like your explaination. Though I'd like you to expand more on the gith.
Mainly, what caused the schism of the gith races, and what the githanki use as building materials without dead gods.

Why shouldn't the Githyanki build their fortresses on gigantic carcasses floating in the Astral Plane? What were these things? Who knows. Just because the Githyanki refer to them as 'dead gods' doesn't make them gods any more than the lizardfolk of Q'barra worshipping that half fiend dragon makes it a god. Most other planes have native denizens, perhaps the Astral was once home to a race of titanic creatures that died out due to internecine warfare (or were killed by the Rajahs in interplanar warfare).
Cifer
05-29-07, 02:40 PM Why shouldn't the Githyanki build their fortresses on gigantic carcasses floating in the Astral Plane? What were these things? Who knows.
I'd say Daelkyr Overlords (they sound more and more like Zerg...) or their warbeasts, cast into the Astral Plane by powerful magic. Perhaps a gith found out they were rather weak when fought there - and later, it was discovered that they made wonderful homes.

I'd skip the lich queen, though. There's already one on Eberron and she wouldn't like confusion of titles...
DM_Dracophile
06-10-07, 12:32 AM Perhaps these massive body parts, now 'petrified', are all that remains of the original Titans of Xendrik...now cast adrift in the timeless sea....
yrogerg
06-12-07, 10:06 PM I like your explaination. Though I'd like you to expand more on the gith.
Mainly, what caused the schism of the gith races, and what the githanki use as building materials without dead gods.

Well, in my campaign, the Astral isn't filled with the bodies of dead gods, they're filled with the body of a dead god: the only one in Eberron cannon ;)

To elaborate, in my Eberron, the transitive planes are strongly associated with the three progenitors, and thus with the appropriate regions in Eberron. The Shadow plane, sinister and mirroring the "real" world, is linked to Kyber (thus giving Shadowmagic a subtly more sinister immediate source), while the Ethereal, the most closely associated with the real world (by default the shadow extends onward, and the Astral outward, but the Ethereal only overlaps with the Material), and whose barrier can be bridged by "pure" magical effects, is associated most strongly with Eberron.

The Astral plane, surrounding the Material, timeless and with its importance to psionics and planar travel, seems most appropriately linked to Syberis. So, in my campaign, the Astral is littered not with carcasses of dead gods, but with Syberis shard-like debris. Obviously, in the Astral, they don't possess any of the qualities that they do in the Material plane, and they are likely of a different substance in a manner I haven't completely concieved yet, but any Astral travelers would immediately notice the similarity.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Rerecros 05-21-07, 04:39 PM	How do they survive on their homeworld Xoriat? They are a parasitic race, needing humanoids to feed on and reproduce from. Also, is there any oficial eberronian backstory for the ilithids and gith?
mahavira 05-21-07, 04:45 PM	I think the reproduction question has been addressed, either in these forums or on an Eberron Expanded article, and one theory was that they don't reproduce via cerebromorphosis on Xoriat, it's only necessary on the Prime Material. Likewise, I'm not sure whether it was the boards or Eberron Expanded, but one theory regarding the Gith is that they were the residents of a world the Daelkir destroyed thousands of years back, and they were the source race from which Mind Flayers were created, in much the same way as hobgoblins are the source race for Dolgaunts.
The Dreaming Duck 05-22-07, 12:31 AM	I'm not sure whether it was the boards or Eberron Expanded, but one theory regarding the Gith is that they were the residents of a world the Daelkir destroyed thousands of years back, and they were the source race from which Mind Flayers were created, in much the same way as hobgoblins are the source race for Dolgaunts. It was Eberron Expanded. (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ebee/20050704a)
The Dreaming Duck 05-22-07, 12:37 AM	How do they survive on their homeworld Xoriat? They are a parasitic race, needing humanoids to feed on and reproduce from. What makes you think there's a shortage of these on Xoriat? It's not simply a world, it's an entire plane of existence... and beyond that, a plane of madness and horror. Perhaps the ilithids have herds of creatures that are nothing more than brains on legs, crafted to serve their needs. The ECS lists creatures from the existing source material that can be found in the planes; I see no reason to assume that there aren't many new creatures unique to these worlds as well.
Vharuck 05-22-07, 05:34 PM	What makes you think there's a shortage of these on Xoriat? It's not simply a world, it's an entire plane of existence... and beyond that, a plane of madness and horror. Perhaps the ilithids have herds of creatures that are nothing more than brains on legs, crafted to serve their needs. The ECS lists creatures from the existing source material that can be found in the planes; I see no reason to assume that there aren't many new creatures unique to these worlds as well. They keep herds of flabby, fungal humans who behave nearly as boars. Might I suggest you read H.P. Lovecraft's Rats in the Walls. Creepy.
OgreBane99 05-22-07, 06:09 PM	Man I wish I could remember exactly which sourcebook went over the gith/githyanki stuff, but one does. I'm leaning towards Magic of Eberron or Explorer's Handbook... Now I'm leaning more towards the Explorer's Handbook. I believe there is a location their of the githyanki and a small sidebar goes over their origins in Eberron. I remember the Eberron origin's being pretty similar to regular D&D.
The Dreaming Duck 05-22-07, 07:03 PM	I believe there is a location their of the githyanki and a small sidebar goes over their origins in Eberron. I remember the Eberron origin's being pretty similar to regular D&D. Which is why I personally prefer the Eberron Expanded explanation. I don't remember the book but I remember what you're talking about, and in my opinion it's lazy design. There's no evidence that the mind flayers of Eberron do enslave people; it's just a case of "I'm too lazy to come up with a good idea, so I'll just paste the old one in." The explanation that the mind flayers were created from the gith gives the emnity an entirely new spin and expands on Eberron. Consider: We know the daelkyr make a hobby of destroying worlds. That implies they've actually done it before. We know that the daelkyr create horrible aberrations from existing creatures. They aren't slavers; they sweep through, transform and destroy, sweeping anything useful back to Xoriat to use in the next project. Following this idea, there is no Gith world any more. The Githyanki went to the astral, the Gitzerai to Kythri. Both races hate the mind flayers, because they are both dark reflections of their own race and the instruments of the destruction of their world. It lets you keep the emnity between the races, but it makes it something different. And it gives the gith the unique role of being the proof of what could happen if the daelkyr are released - they are people who HAVE lost their world. So I'd certainly use the Eberron Expanded version over the "Oh, yeah, mind flayers enslaved Gith here too" version. (And while it doesn't make much of a difference, the EE version comes from the setting creator, and I know he didn't work on whatever the other sourcebook was.)
OgreBane99 05-22-07, 08:36 PM	The explanation that the mind flayers were created from the gith gives the emnity an entirely new spin and expands on Eberron. Consider: We know the daelkyr make a hobby of destroying worlds. That implies they've actually done it before. We know that the daelkyr create horrible aberrations from existing creatures. They aren't slavers; they sweep through, transform and destroy, sweeping anything useful back to Xoriat to use in the next project. Following this idea, there is no Gith world any more. The Githyanki went to the astral, the Gitzerai to Kythri. Both races hate the mind flayers, because they are both dark reflections of their own race and the instruments of the destruction of their world. It lets you keep the emnity between the races, but it makes it something different. And it gives the gith the unique role of being the proof of what could happen if the daelkyr are released - they are people who HAVE lost their world. Wow. I just noticed that the daelkyr sound a lot like the Zerg from Starcraft....
tallric_kruush 05-22-07, 08:37 PM	Man I wish I could remember exactly which sourcebook went over the gith/githyanki stuff, but one does. I'm leaning towards Magic of Eberron or Explorer's Handbook... Now I'm leaning more towards the Explorer's Handbook. I believe there is a location their of the githyanki and a small sidebar goes over their origins in Eberron. I remember the Eberron origin's being pretty similar to regular D&D. You speak of Player's Guide to Eberron. Sadly, the stuff you refer to was in the main text, as opposed to a sidebar where recommendations of its type belong.
The Dreaming Duck 05-22-07, 09:15 PM	Wow. I just noticed that the daelkyr sound a lot like the Zerg from Starcraft.... ZOMG! Dolgrim rush!!! ;)
Hellcow 05-22-07, 09:22 PM	You speak of Player's Guide to Eberron. TK is correct (it's on page 123), and as such, Dreaming Duck is mistaken - I did work on PGtE. However, I didn't write that particular piece of it. I've always played with the Gith as survivors of a destroyed world, which is why that's in the Eberron Expanded. The daelkyr turn you into your own worst enemies, corrupting your people and turning them back against you. As such, I like the idea that in Eberron, it's not simply a matter of Gith hating illithids because they were enslaved - but rather that the mind flayer is a living symbol of the destruction of their world and their failure to resist the daelkyr.
Rerecros 05-22-07, 10:55 PM	Which is why I personally prefer the Eberron Expanded explanation. I don't remember the book but I remember what you're talking about, and in my opinion it's lazy design. There's no evidence that the mind flayers of Eberron do enslave people; it's just a case of "I'm too lazy to come up with a good idea, so I'll just paste the old one in." The explanation that the mind flayers were created from the gith gives the emnity an entirely new spin and expands on Eberron. Consider: We know the daelkyr make a hobby of destroying worlds. That implies they've actually done it before. We know that the daelkyr create horrible aberrations from existing creatures. They aren't slavers; they sweep through, transform and destroy, sweeping anything useful back to Xoriat to use in the next project. Following this idea, there is no Gith world any more. The Githyanki went to the astral, the Gitzerai to Kythri. Both races hate the mind flayers, because they are both dark reflections of their own race and the instruments of the destruction of their world. It lets you keep the emnity between the races, but it makes it something different. And it gives the gith the unique role of being the proof of what could happen if the daelkyr are released - they are people who HAVE lost their world. So I'd certainly use the Eberron Expanded version over the "Oh, yeah, mind flayers enslaved Gith here too" version. (And while it doesn't make much of a difference, the EE version comes from the setting creator, and I know he didn't work on whatever the other sourcebook was.) I like your explaination. Though I'd like you to expand more on the gith. Mainly, what caused the schism of the gith races, and what the githanki use as building materials without dead gods.
CannibalSmith 05-28-07, 08:20 AM	ZOMG! Dolgrim rush!!! ;) Hell, it's about time! (http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/7751/itsabouttimead2.jpg)
Lord_Madrigan 05-28-07, 02:45 PM	I like your explaination. Though I'd like you to expand more on the gith. Mainly, what caused the schism of the gith races, and what the githanki use as building materials without dead gods. The Gith schism is one of Blame. Each faction Blames the other for the release of the daelkyr and destruction of there homeworld. The Githzarai view being that the lich queen's mad quest for power opened the doors of Xoriat called fourth the daelkyr. The githyanki view is that the githzarai's refusal to unite under the banner of the lich queen left them too divided and weak to mount an effective resistance As for Building materials. The githyanki shift left over Fragments of Worlds destroyed by the daelkyr into the astral plane
Rerecros 05-28-07, 03:33 PM	:plotting: thanx
mahavira 05-28-07, 06:16 PM	I like your explaination. Though I'd like you to expand more on the gith. Mainly, what caused the schism of the gith races, and what the githanki use as building materials without dead gods. Why shouldn't the Githyanki build their fortresses on gigantic carcasses floating in the Astral Plane? What were these things? Who knows. Just because the Githyanki refer to them as 'dead gods' doesn't make them gods any more than the lizardfolk of Q'barra worshipping that half fiend dragon makes it a god. Most other planes have native denizens, perhaps the Astral was once home to a race of titanic creatures that died out due to internecine warfare (or were killed by the Rajahs in interplanar warfare).
Cifer 05-29-07, 02:40 PM	Why shouldn't the Githyanki build their fortresses on gigantic carcasses floating in the Astral Plane? What were these things? Who knows. I'd say Daelkyr Overlords (they sound more and more like Zerg...) or their warbeasts, cast into the Astral Plane by powerful magic. Perhaps a gith found out they were rather weak when fought there - and later, it was discovered that they made wonderful homes. I'd skip the lich queen, though. There's already one on Eberron and she wouldn't like confusion of titles...
DM_Dracophile 06-10-07, 12:32 AM	Perhaps these massive body parts, now 'petrified', are all that remains of the original Titans of Xendrik...now cast adrift in the timeless sea....
yrogerg 06-12-07, 10:06 PM	I like your explaination. Though I'd like you to expand more on the gith. Mainly, what caused the schism of the gith races, and what the githanki use as building materials without dead gods. Well, in my campaign, the Astral isn't filled with the bodies of dead gods, they're filled with the body of a dead god: the only one in Eberron cannon ;) To elaborate, in my Eberron, the transitive planes are strongly associated with the three progenitors, and thus with the appropriate regions in Eberron. The Shadow plane, sinister and mirroring the "real" world, is linked to Kyber (thus giving Shadowmagic a subtly more sinister immediate source), while the Ethereal, the most closely associated with the real world (by default the shadow extends onward, and the Astral outward, but the Ethereal only overlaps with the Material), and whose barrier can be bridged by "pure" magical effects, is associated most strongly with Eberron. The Astral plane, surrounding the Material, timeless and with its importance to psionics and planar travel, seems most appropriately linked to Syberis. So, in my campaign, the Astral is littered not with carcasses of dead gods, but with Syberis shard-like debris. Obviously, in the Astral, they don't possess any of the qualities that they do in the Material plane, and they are likely of a different substance in a manner I haven't completely concieved yet, but any Astral travelers would immediately notice the similarity.