Nature of Souls [Archive] - Wizards Community

Nature of Souls [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
OctaviusIII
07-25-07, 02:36 AM Here's something I need for a backstory: What is the nature of souls in Eberron? Where do they come from, and does an awaken spell grant one?
Rerecros
07-25-07, 10:32 AM In D&D terminology, the soul is just an animating force in living things, and no the awaken spell does not grant one, as plants and animals can be affected by raise dead spells (well it doesn't specify they aren't) because they already have souls.
lukelightning
07-25-07, 01:09 PM D&D doesn't have a good definition of a soul, actually. Sometimes it means life force, sometimes it means mind, etc. Souls are often described as the part of you that is immortal and can't be destroyed, yet D&D is bursting at the seams with soul-eating or soul-destroying things.

The spell magic jar highlights the reason why D&D should have a better definition of "soul."

Outsiders and elementals don't have a soul/body division, but you can magic jar and possess an outsider... if the outsider's body really was the same as its soul then you'd think the whole outsider would disappear and get trapped in the jar. The same with undead; you can magic jar undead, even though many undead are, fluff-wise, described as being soul-less. Or you could magic jar a spectre...but a specter is just a soul, right? Does this mean a soul has a soul?

Regarding awaken; there is no reason to assume that animals and trees don't already have souls.
OctaviusIII
07-25-07, 09:58 PM Interesting!

So it sounds like the soul is the animating force behind a creature. Reading over the spell description, though, it seems as though that animating force can be of positive or negative energy. Whether the soul itself is positive or negative, or whether it is sustained by a certain sort of energy, is up for speculation. The remark that only sentient undead possess souls seems to imply the latter.

As for the possessing creatures that are just souls, like outsiders or specters, I think means that those aren’t actually naked souls. The soul must be entirely immaterial. In the case of outsiders, the soul must have a kind of special connection with its body although not one that can’t be severed.

If you’re wondering why I asked, it’s because I’m trying to figure out who created life in Eberron within my cleric’s heretical Sovereign Host pseudo-monotheism (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=848443&highlight=monotheism).
Edymnion
07-28-07, 10:16 PM My personal pet theory as to the source of souls in Eberron:

An oversoul, like the one put forth by Jung.
For those that don't know Carl Jung's work, here's the basics.
There exists one great living soul, and like all living things, it has the desire to grow and become more than it is. So, to do this, it breaks off small parts of itself, and sends them into the world. These small parts of the oversoul are what we refer to as a soul. These souls go out, experience the world, and grow in their own right from those experiences. Then, when the body dies, the soul goes back and merges back into the oversoul, taking it's experiences and personal growth with it. As such, the oversoul grows.

I think this fits with Eberron particularly well, primarily because of the Warforged and Dol'uhrr.

The Creation Forges create WF with souls by forcibly ripping soulstuff from the oversoul. Since these pieces of soul were not prepared by the oversoul to be blank sheets ready to grow on their own. They carry bits of the complete knowledge of the oversoul, which is why you can train a WF so easily, because they basically have a little bit of knowledge for every possible topic, because the oversoul has that knowledge.

Dol'uhrr on the other hand is already stated as being a place where a soul's memories and personality fade away into "nothingness". This would be the place where the experiences of the bit of soul are extracted and absorbed by the oversoul before the actual soul fragment is allowed to rejoin the whole.

To fit it into your monotheism bit, you would simply need to say that the oversoul created the physical world in order to send it's fragments into to grow. Sort of like a human building their own gym to train in.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
OctaviusIII 07-25-07, 02:36 AM	Here's something I need for a backstory: What is the nature of souls in Eberron? Where do they come from, and does an awaken spell grant one?
Rerecros 07-25-07, 10:32 AM	In D&D terminology, the soul is just an animating force in living things, and no the awaken spell does not grant one, as plants and animals can be affected by raise dead spells (well it doesn't specify they aren't) because they already have souls.
lukelightning 07-25-07, 01:09 PM	D&D doesn't have a good definition of a soul, actually. Sometimes it means life force, sometimes it means mind, etc. Souls are often described as the part of you that is immortal and can't be destroyed, yet D&D is bursting at the seams with soul-eating or soul-destroying things. The spell magic jar highlights the reason why D&D should have a better definition of "soul." Outsiders and elementals don't have a soul/body division, but you can magic jar and possess an outsider... if the outsider's body really was the same as its soul then you'd think the whole outsider would disappear and get trapped in the jar. The same with undead; you can magic jar undead, even though many undead are, fluff-wise, described as being soul-less. Or you could magic jar a spectre...but a specter is just a soul, right? Does this mean a soul has a soul? Regarding awaken; there is no reason to assume that animals and trees don't already have souls.
OctaviusIII 07-25-07, 09:58 PM	Interesting! So it sounds like the soul is the animating force behind a creature. Reading over the spell description, though, it seems as though that animating force can be of positive or negative energy. Whether the soul itself is positive or negative, or whether it is sustained by a certain sort of energy, is up for speculation. The remark that only sentient undead possess souls seems to imply the latter. As for the possessing creatures that are just souls, like outsiders or specters, I think means that those aren’t actually naked souls. The soul must be entirely immaterial. In the case of outsiders, the soul must have a kind of special connection with its body although not one that can’t be severed. If you’re wondering why I asked, it’s because I’m trying to figure out who created life in Eberron within my cleric’s heretical Sovereign Host pseudo-monotheism (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=848443&highlight=monotheism).
Edymnion 07-28-07, 10:16 PM	My personal pet theory as to the source of souls in Eberron: An oversoul, like the one put forth by Jung. For those that don't know Carl Jung's work, here's the basics. There exists one great living soul, and like all living things, it has the desire to grow and become more than it is. So, to do this, it breaks off small parts of itself, and sends them into the world. These small parts of the oversoul are what we refer to as a soul. These souls go out, experience the world, and grow in their own right from those experiences. Then, when the body dies, the soul goes back and merges back into the oversoul, taking it's experiences and personal growth with it. As such, the oversoul grows. I think this fits with Eberron particularly well, primarily because of the Warforged and Dol'uhrr. The Creation Forges create WF with souls by forcibly ripping soulstuff from the oversoul. Since these pieces of soul were not prepared by the oversoul to be blank sheets ready to grow on their own. They carry bits of the complete knowledge of the oversoul, which is why you can train a WF so easily, because they basically have a little bit of knowledge for every possible topic, because the oversoul has that knowledge. Dol'uhrr on the other hand is already stated as being a place where a soul's memories and personality fade away into "nothingness". This would be the place where the experiences of the bit of soul are extracted and absorbed by the oversoul before the actual soul fragment is allowed to rejoin the whole. To fit it into your monotheism bit, you would simply need to say that the oversoul created the physical world in order to send it's fragments into to grow. Sort of like a human building their own gym to train in.