Priest of Milil in Eb. creating "good" undead? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Priest of Milil in Eb. creating "good" undead? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Burningspear
07-17-07, 09:49 PM Would it violate the alignment of a LG priest of Milil to "preserve" bards abilities and knowledge to actually create good aligned mummies and other such undeads?

I have interest in creating neutral and good undead, but in a very restricted manner, just like the soldiers of Karrnath are made, but then with different restrictions of course..

I am also interested in creating a Intelligent Skull that gives the owner the Bards ability, and has some extra skills and maybe even spells know to have the character memorize or free add per day?

would the creation of such an item be allowable also?

any thoughts? :plotting:

(Some background info:My character came to Ebberon because a Priest of Cyric kidnapped him and swapped bodies with him...
the priest was cursed by Cyric to be a Huecuva, and while that did not suit the priest he thought to escape the curse partially by swapping bodies with another priest, he found me, somehow managed to swap them, and with the mechanical spider (Talons of the Horned King) he kidnapped me and put me in a cell in the "ship", while he traveled with the ape-like race to go to another plane or whatnot, they stranded on Ebberon, my character got freed by "the Party" but the antagonist and his "Apes" got away, now the party is in "hot pursuit" and we are trying to get my body back as well.
We are atm in Karrnath, so being undead is not a total freakshow, besides that my character does not count as a full undead, as his mind is still fully human, meaning i don't have certain immunities etc.
I am now a Swashbuckler 3, Priest 1, Human Paragon 1, 1/2 Huecuva (+1 lvl adj.))
Burningspear
07-17-07, 09:57 PM Weird, the thread was created, but then does not show up in the list where is should sit, hmmz, magical relocation of threads?

is my thread cursed? :D
bykov1
07-17-07, 11:06 PM I see this thread.

Bykov.
Burningspear
07-17-07, 11:16 PM I see this thread.

Bykov.

Thnx, any thoughts btw? :tie:
Revvecor
07-17-07, 11:23 PM In terms of the skull you are talking about; Do you mean something similar to a Demilich or a magic item/artifact
Burningspear
07-18-07, 07:27 AM In terms of the skull you are talking about; Do you mean something similar to a Demilich or a magic item/artifact

magic item/ artifact.. I am not at a level where i can create many artifacts though, so ill stick to magic items..

however, i think caster lvl 15 is the minimum for creating intelligent items, is it not? :tie:
Need_A_Life
07-18-07, 08:33 AM Would it violate the alignment of a LG priest of Milil to "preserve" bards abilities and knowledge to actually create good aligned mummies and other such undeads?Milil? Forgotten Realms, I assume? If so, try to ask on that board.

I have interest in creating neutral and good undead, but in a very restricted manner, just like the soldiers of Karrnath are made, but then with different restrictions of course..So... use undead for own purposes, noble or not? Go right ahead.

I am also interested in creating a Intelligent Skull that gives the owner the Bards ability, and has some extra skills and maybe even spells know to have the character memorize or free add per day?

would the creation of such an item be allowable also? Ask your DM.

My character came to Ebberon because a Priest of Cyric kidnapped him and swapped bodies with him......
What!? Seems I wasn't far off guessing Forgotten Realms above.

the priest was cursed by Cyric to be a Huecuva, and while that did not suit the priest he thought to escape the curse partially by swapping bodies with another priest, he found me, somehow managed to swap them, and with the mechanical spider (Talons of the Horned King) he kidnapped me and put me in a cell in the "ship", while he traveled with the ape-like race to go to another plane or whatnot, they stranded on Ebberon, my character got freed by "the Party" but the antagonist and his "Apes" got away, now the party is in "hot pursuit" and we are trying to get my body back as well. *hums "I'm an alien, I'm a legal alien, I'm a Faerunian in Sharn"*

We are atm in Karrnath, so being undead is not a total freakshow, besides that my character does not count as a full undead, as his mind is still fully human, meaning i don't have certain immunities etc.In Karrnath undead are still just as "yucky." You have NO legal rights, you'll be considered an abomination, though as you are probably government property you will not be destroyed on sight, though if you threaten the security of civilians, you will be destroyed.

I am now a Swashbuckler 3, Priest 1, Human Paragon 1, 1/2 Huecuva (+1 lvl adj.))And I'm in shock.
Alex_
07-18-07, 02:17 PM Would it violate the alignment of a LG priest of Milil to "preserve" bards abilities and knowledge to actually create good aligned mummies and other such undeads?

I have interest in creating neutral and good undead, but in a very restricted manner, just like the soldiers of Karrnath are made, but then with different restrictions of course..

I am also interested in creating a Intelligent Skull that gives the owner the Bards ability, and has some extra skills and maybe even spells know to have the character memorize or free add per day?

would the creation of such an item be allowable also?

any thoughts? :plotting:

(Some background info:My character came to Ebberon because a Priest of Cyric kidnapped him and swapped bodies with him...
the priest was cursed by Cyric to be a Huecuva, and while that did not suit the priest he thought to escape the curse partially by swapping bodies with another priest, he found me, somehow managed to swap them, and with the mechanical spider (Talons of the Horned King) he kidnapped me and put me in a cell in the "ship", while he traveled with the ape-like race to go to another plane or whatnot, they stranded on Ebberon, my character got freed by "the Party" but the antagonist and his "Apes" got away, now the party is in "hot pursuit" and we are trying to get my body back as well.
We are atm in Karrnath, so being undead is not a total freakshow, besides that my character does not count as a full undead, as his mind is still fully human, meaning i don't have certain immunities etc.
I am now a Swashbuckler 3, Priest 1, Human Paragon 1, 1/2 Huecuva (+1 lvl adj.))

My first response would be: Ask your DM. They are the ones who are going to tell you if this is acceptable or not.

If I were the DM, I don't think any of this would be acceptable. To begin with, you wouldn't be allowed to be a Cleric of any FR deity, but would instead choose an Eberron deity or some kind of philosophy. I wouldn't buy the plane hopping explanation.

Secondly, any information about animating the dead that aren't of Evil alignment would be somehow related to the Elves of Arenal. I would suggest that making Neutral Undead was impossible.

Thirdly, I would not allow an item that gave a character an extra Class feature, extra skills, and spells known/spells per day all in one package- well I probably would, but it would very expensive in order to balance it out with the rest of the party.

And finally, Undead cannot just walk down the street in Karrnath. They're not "total freakshows", but they are still disturbing enough to the general populous that they are largely hidden from the public's eyes and even the eyes of many in the military. The creation of Karrnathi Zombies and Skeletons is largely tolerated in Karrnath under the justification that these are devoted individuals who chose their fate. They're still somewhat disturbed for doing it, but their level of dedication is something the generally proud and martially inclined people can sympathize with.
Burningspear
07-18-07, 05:23 PM If I were the DM, I don't think any of this would be acceptable. To begin with, you wouldn't be allowed to be a Cleric of any FR deity, but would instead choose an Eberron deity or some kind of philosophy. I wouldn't buy the plane hopping explanation.

sadly this is not really helping, as my DM has allowed the plane hopping, as it is part in a way of the adventure itself.
he is the creator of the story as you see it, and he has allowed me to play a priest from Faeruhn.

Secondly, any information about animating the dead that aren't of Evil alignment would be somehow related to the Elves of Arenal. I would suggest that making Neutral Undead was impossible.

Why, it even says in the MM that Mummies are mostly LE, not always..and even demons who are "almost always" evil have their exceptions.

Thirdly, I would not allow an item that gave a character an extra Class feature, extra skills, and spells known/spells per day all in one package- well I probably would, but it would very expensive in order to balance it out with the rest of the party.

I was thinking of something like:
Intelligent Skull, who gives the owner the Bards ability if a priest of Milil.
Meaning its intelligence to give the owner some skills bonus, just like the DMG says in the rules for intelligent item creation, is that not expensive enough?
And the same list also gives a way for getting some spells per day free.....

And finally, Undead cannot just walk down the street in Karrnath. They're not "total freakshows", but they are still disturbing enough to the general populous that they are largely hidden from the public's eyes and even the eyes of many in the military. The creation of Karrnathi Zombies and Skeletons is largely tolerated in Karrnath under the justification that these are devoted individuals who chose their fate. They're still somewhat disturbed for doing it, but their level of dedication is something the generally proud and martially inclined people can sympathize with.

My DM plays it along the lines that "smaller" but intelligent undead are treated better in their social standing then Warforged are, specifically in Karrnath.

I am neither Zombie, nor Skeleton, so am not a item owned by the government as Need_A_life seems to imply:

In Karrnath undead are still just as "yucky." You have NO legal rights, you'll be considered an abomination, though as you are probably government property you will not be destroyed on sight, though if you threaten the security of civilians, you will be destroyed.

ill react more later..
Alex_
07-18-07, 07:52 PM sadly this is not really helping, as my DM has allowed the plane hopping, as it is part in a way of the adventure itself.
he is the creator of the story as you see it, and he has allowed me to play a priest from Faeruhn.

Then ask them if the other stuff is okay. I'm not seeing how I can be helpful if ultimately, it's the DM that's going to decide all of this stuff.

Why, it even says in the MM that Mummies are mostly LE, not always..and even demons who are "almost always" evil have their exceptions.

That doesn't mean you can make Neutral Undead- which is what I would rule. I would rule it this way because creation of Undying (aka Good "Undead") requires either channeling of Positive Energy (which results in NG Deathless) or Negative Energy (which results in Evil ones). It's not only the nature of the energy, but the nature of the acts required to harness the energy in the first place. There is no Neutral energy, so I don't rule that there is a neutral ritual or creation process, and as a result, no way of creating Undead with Neutral alignment.

And knowledge of how to use positive Energy to make Undying is chiefly in the domain of the Elves of Aerenal.

Mummies may not always be Lawful Evil, but their creation involves "the auspices of dark desert gods best forgotten". I conclude that to mean Negative energy in some kind of Evil ritual. Pretty much all mummies in my campaign would be LE, NE, or CE.

I can see something a Vampire perhaps changing their alignment later on (of course this would be the exception) but I would not see them starting off as anything but some kind of Evil. I'd also really play on the alignment thing, since it would be a general rejection of the very elements and factors that spawned them.

But that's me.

Edit: Actually I would say there is a neutral animation energy. The kind of energy that is infused into things via the Animate Object spell, Elementals, which can be bound into Golems, Automatons, and other Constructs, and as part of the force that animates Warforged.

I was thinking of something like: Intelligent Skull, who gives the owner the Bards ability if a priest of Milil. Meaning its intelligence to give the owner some skills bonus, just like the DMG says in the rules for intelligent item creation, is that not expensive enough? And the same list also gives a way for getting some spells per day free.....

I don't seem to be able to find the list you're referring to.

My DM plays it along the lines that "smaller" but intelligent undead are treated better in their social standing then Warforged are, specifically in Karrnath.

Ah, I see. So in this setting, things like Vampires and Liches are not unknown to walk down the streets of Karrnath, making no attempt to hide their Undead nature?
Burningspear
07-19-07, 02:53 PM Then ask them if the other stuff is okay. I'm not seeing how I can be helpful if ultimately, it's the DM that's going to decide all of this stuff.
true, i did not say your feedback was completely useless though :tie:

That doesn't mean you can make Neutral Undead- which is what I would rule. I would rule it this way because creation of Undying (aka Good "Undead") requires either channeling of Positive Energy (which results in NG Deathless) or Negative Energy (which results in Evil ones). It's not only the nature of the energy, but the nature of the acts required to harness the energy in the first place. There is no Neutral energy, so I don't rule that there is a neutral ritual or creation process, and as a result, no way of creating Undead with Neutral alignment.
I do not disagree on that logic. How much i dislike it though :plotting:

And knowledge of how to use positive Energy to make Undying is chiefly in the domain of the Elves of Aerenal.
Very true

Mummies may not always be Lawful Evil, but their creation involves "the auspices of dark desert gods best forgotten". I conclude that to mean Negative energy in some kind of Evil ritual. Pretty much all mummies in my campaign would be LE, NE, or CE.
I think that sentence should have been scrapped long time ago, as Osiris in Forgotten Reals also supports mummies as his god of Death portfolio..(just an example)

I can see something a Vampire perhaps changing their alignment later on (of course this would be the exception) but I would not see them starting off as anything but some kind of Evil. I'd also really play on the alignment thing, since it would be a general rejection of the very elements and factors that spawned them.
yes, true, but i dont see a Mummy as irredeemable just like a vampire he could change, specially with a LG mentor (or a godly supporter in the likes of Osiris, in the general debate)

Edit: Actually I would say there is a neutral animation energy. The kind of energy that is infused into things via the Animate Object spell, Elementals, which can be bound into Golems, Automatons, and other Constructs, and as part of the force that animates Warforged.
Interesting, but i don't like the thought of making a Animated Mummy Object, or do i? :plotting:

I don't seem to be able to find the list you're referring to.

Ah, I see. So in this setting, things like Vampires and Liches are not unknown to walk down the streets of Karrnath, making no attempt to hide their Undead nature?
Page 269 DMG v.3.5
cost of intelligent items.

well, somewhere in between that and the thoughts you seem to have, its like i am able to walk the streets but i do keep a hood up, ppl will not scream when they see me and will interact with me, even in Inn's and the like, i am actually a singing Huecuva :D, got a little fame in a village inn near Lakeside, and it made me think of creating a singing Choir ?sp?,
Based in Vedykar... anyway i am digressing...lol
Need_A_Life
07-20-07, 09:09 AM I am simply stating what would happen in standard Eberron, if an undead walked openly down the streets of Korth.

In such a house-ruled campaign, I doubt I can be of much help. Worshipping a FR deity in Eberron is about where I drew the line with my former DM.
Alex_
07-20-07, 12:56 PM I think that sentence should have been scrapped long time ago, as Osiris in Forgotten Reals also supports mummies as his god of Death portfolio.(just an example)

Not every individual who gets stuffed full of spices and wrapped in linens when they're burried rises as an Undead mummy. Mummification in this case, refers to the simple processes of dead preparation involving drying people out and wrapping them up. Osiris supports proper care and burial of the dead, not raising them as Undead.

yes, true, but i dont see a Mummy as irredeemable just like a vampire he could change, specially with a LG mentor (or a godly supporter in the likes of Osiris, in the general debate)

Oh sure you could redeem it. Might be hard considering Mummies usually have a 6 intelligent and rarely bother speaking, and can deliver debilitating diseases with a touch making life changing philosophical discussions rather difficult. Not saying it can't happen, but that knd of stuff is a plot hook or an adventure in and of itself (to me at least) not something that is done simply for player convenience.

Page 269 DMG v.3.5
cost of intelligent items.

I think I see the confusion here.

These are not abilities the item gives to its owner. These are abilities the item itself has, and chooses to use.

An intelligent item is essentially an NPC controlled by the DM. It may take the form of a +2 Flaming Longsword when you use it, but other than that, you get no benefits from it. However, the sword can have other properties or abilities that it chooses to use whenever it wants to. Most intelligent items have a specific goal or desire in mind (spread Evil, slay trolls, burn things) that their owner should be using them for before they'll decide to use abilities to help them.

Your skull can have 10 ranks in any single Knowledge skill for 5000 gold, but Bardic Knowledge is a class ability, which Intelligent Items are not listed as being able to have. Furthermore, Bardic Knowledge is as useful as several Knowledge skills. The list involves no mention of allowing the caster to memorize more spells or have more spells per day. The item itself can have it's own spell like abilities a number of times per day, but using them is entirely up to the item (controlled by the DM). You can try to talk the item into using its abilities, but it cannot give them to you as your own.

if you're asking if it would be alright to change it so that it gave you these abilities instead of the item itself having them, I'd say no as it would be very unbalanced. If you're asking how much it would cost in general, then you have to be more specific on what powers you want it to have.
Subtle Knife
07-23-07, 10:54 AM *hums "I'm an alien, I'm a legal alien, I'm a Faerunian in Sharn"*

Great Sting allusion!
SK
Kensan_Oni
07-25-07, 03:53 PM In general, when you want to create good undead, do the following

1) remove energy drains with healing effects

2) Replace Undead traits with Undying traits.

3) Instead of Darkness, use light effects.

That should help as general guidelines for making new undying
Burningspear
07-25-07, 04:14 PM In general, when you want to create good undead, do the following

1) remove energy drains with healing effects

2) Replace Undead traits with Undying traits.

3) Instead of Darkness, use light effects.

That should help as general guidelines for making new undying

Thnx for the tips, though i was not specifically looking for undying traits :),

btw:
"Playing an awakened primate, however, is beyond wrong. It's Discworld wrong." - Thindelock

DISCWORLD IS SUPERCOOL

:plotting:

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Burningspear 07-17-07, 09:49 PM	Would it violate the alignment of a LG priest of Milil to "preserve" bards abilities and knowledge to actually create good aligned mummies and other such undeads? I have interest in creating neutral and good undead, but in a very restricted manner, just like the soldiers of Karrnath are made, but then with different restrictions of course.. I am also interested in creating a Intelligent Skull that gives the owner the Bards ability, and has some extra skills and maybe even spells know to have the character memorize or free add per day? would the creation of such an item be allowable also? any thoughts? :plotting: (Some background info:My character came to Ebberon because a Priest of Cyric kidnapped him and swapped bodies with him... the priest was cursed by Cyric to be a Huecuva, and while that did not suit the priest he thought to escape the curse partially by swapping bodies with another priest, he found me, somehow managed to swap them, and with the mechanical spider (Talons of the Horned King) he kidnapped me and put me in a cell in the "ship", while he traveled with the ape-like race to go to another plane or whatnot, they stranded on Ebberon, my character got freed by "the Party" but the antagonist and his "Apes" got away, now the party is in "hot pursuit" and we are trying to get my body back as well. We are atm in Karrnath, so being undead is not a total freakshow, besides that my character does not count as a full undead, as his mind is still fully human, meaning i don't have certain immunities etc. I am now a Swashbuckler 3, Priest 1, Human Paragon 1, 1/2 Huecuva (+1 lvl adj.))
Burningspear 07-17-07, 09:57 PM	Weird, the thread was created, but then does not show up in the list where is should sit, hmmz, magical relocation of threads? is my thread cursed? :D
bykov1 07-17-07, 11:06 PM	I see this thread. Bykov.
Burningspear 07-17-07, 11:16 PM	I see this thread. Bykov. Thnx, any thoughts btw? :tie:
Revvecor 07-17-07, 11:23 PM	In terms of the skull you are talking about; Do you mean something similar to a Demilich or a magic item/artifact
Burningspear 07-18-07, 07:27 AM	In terms of the skull you are talking about; Do you mean something similar to a Demilich or a magic item/artifact magic item/ artifact.. I am not at a level where i can create many artifacts though, so ill stick to magic items.. however, i think caster lvl 15 is the minimum for creating intelligent items, is it not? :tie:
Need_A_Life 07-18-07, 08:33 AM	Would it violate the alignment of a LG priest of Milil to "preserve" bards abilities and knowledge to actually create good aligned mummies and other such undeads?Milil? Forgotten Realms, I assume? If so, try to ask on that board. I have interest in creating neutral and good undead, but in a very restricted manner, just like the soldiers of Karrnath are made, but then with different restrictions of course..So... use undead for own purposes, noble or not? Go right ahead. I am also interested in creating a Intelligent Skull that gives the owner the Bards ability, and has some extra skills and maybe even spells know to have the character memorize or free add per day? would the creation of such an item be allowable also? Ask your DM. My character came to Ebberon because a Priest of Cyric kidnapped him and swapped bodies with him...... What!? Seems I wasn't far off guessing Forgotten Realms above. the priest was cursed by Cyric to be a Huecuva, and while that did not suit the priest he thought to escape the curse partially by swapping bodies with another priest, he found me, somehow managed to swap them, and with the mechanical spider (Talons of the Horned King) he kidnapped me and put me in a cell in the "ship", while he traveled with the ape-like race to go to another plane or whatnot, they stranded on Ebberon, my character got freed by "the Party" but the antagonist and his "Apes" got away, now the party is in "hot pursuit" and we are trying to get my body back as well. hums "I'm an alien, I'm a legal alien, I'm a Faerunian in Sharn" We are atm in Karrnath, so being undead is not a total freakshow, besides that my character does not count as a full undead, as his mind is still fully human, meaning i don't have certain immunities etc.In Karrnath undead are still just as "yucky." You have NO legal rights, you'll be considered an abomination, though as you are probably government property you will not be destroyed on sight, though if you threaten the security of civilians, you will be destroyed. I am now a Swashbuckler 3, Priest 1, Human Paragon 1, 1/2 Huecuva (+1 lvl adj.))And I'm in shock.
Alex_ 07-18-07, 02:17 PM	Would it violate the alignment of a LG priest of Milil to "preserve" bards abilities and knowledge to actually create good aligned mummies and other such undeads? I have interest in creating neutral and good undead, but in a very restricted manner, just like the soldiers of Karrnath are made, but then with different restrictions of course.. I am also interested in creating a Intelligent Skull that gives the owner the Bards ability, and has some extra skills and maybe even spells know to have the character memorize or free add per day? would the creation of such an item be allowable also? any thoughts? :plotting: (Some background info:My character came to Ebberon because a Priest of Cyric kidnapped him and swapped bodies with him... the priest was cursed by Cyric to be a Huecuva, and while that did not suit the priest he thought to escape the curse partially by swapping bodies with another priest, he found me, somehow managed to swap them, and with the mechanical spider (Talons of the Horned King) he kidnapped me and put me in a cell in the "ship", while he traveled with the ape-like race to go to another plane or whatnot, they stranded on Ebberon, my character got freed by "the Party" but the antagonist and his "Apes" got away, now the party is in "hot pursuit" and we are trying to get my body back as well. We are atm in Karrnath, so being undead is not a total freakshow, besides that my character does not count as a full undead, as his mind is still fully human, meaning i don't have certain immunities etc. I am now a Swashbuckler 3, Priest 1, Human Paragon 1, 1/2 Huecuva (+1 lvl adj.)) My first response would be: Ask your DM. They are the ones who are going to tell you if this is acceptable or not. If I were the DM, I don't think any of this would be acceptable. To begin with, you wouldn't be allowed to be a Cleric of any FR deity, but would instead choose an Eberron deity or some kind of philosophy. I wouldn't buy the plane hopping explanation. Secondly, any information about animating the dead that aren't of Evil alignment would be somehow related to the Elves of Arenal. I would suggest that making Neutral Undead was impossible. Thirdly, I would not allow an item that gave a character an extra Class feature, extra skills, and spells known/spells per day all in one package- well I probably would, but it would very expensive in order to balance it out with the rest of the party. And finally, Undead cannot just walk down the street in Karrnath. They're not "total freakshows", but they are still disturbing enough to the general populous that they are largely hidden from the public's eyes and even the eyes of many in the military. The creation of Karrnathi Zombies and Skeletons is largely tolerated in Karrnath under the justification that these are devoted individuals who chose their fate. They're still somewhat disturbed for doing it, but their level of dedication is something the generally proud and martially inclined people can sympathize with.
Burningspear 07-18-07, 05:23 PM	If I were the DM, I don't think any of this would be acceptable. To begin with, you wouldn't be allowed to be a Cleric of any FR deity, but would instead choose an Eberron deity or some kind of philosophy. I wouldn't buy the plane hopping explanation. sadly this is not really helping, as my DM has allowed the plane hopping, as it is part in a way of the adventure itself. he is the creator of the story as you see it, and he has allowed me to play a priest from Faeruhn. Secondly, any information about animating the dead that aren't of Evil alignment would be somehow related to the Elves of Arenal. I would suggest that making Neutral Undead was impossible. Why, it even says in the MM that Mummies are mostly LE, not always..and even demons who are "almost always" evil have their exceptions. Thirdly, I would not allow an item that gave a character an extra Class feature, extra skills, and spells known/spells per day all in one package- well I probably would, but it would very expensive in order to balance it out with the rest of the party. I was thinking of something like: Intelligent Skull, who gives the owner the Bards ability if a priest of Milil. Meaning its intelligence to give the owner some skills bonus, just like the DMG says in the rules for intelligent item creation, is that not expensive enough? And the same list also gives a way for getting some spells per day free..... And finally, Undead cannot just walk down the street in Karrnath. They're not "total freakshows", but they are still disturbing enough to the general populous that they are largely hidden from the public's eyes and even the eyes of many in the military. The creation of Karrnathi Zombies and Skeletons is largely tolerated in Karrnath under the justification that these are devoted individuals who chose their fate. They're still somewhat disturbed for doing it, but their level of dedication is something the generally proud and martially inclined people can sympathize with. My DM plays it along the lines that "smaller" but intelligent undead are treated better in their social standing then Warforged are, specifically in Karrnath. I am neither Zombie, nor Skeleton, so am not a item owned by the government as Need_A_life seems to imply: In Karrnath undead are still just as "yucky." You have NO legal rights, you'll be considered an abomination, though as you are probably government property you will not be destroyed on sight, though if you threaten the security of civilians, you will be destroyed. ill react more later..
Alex_ 07-18-07, 07:52 PM	sadly this is not really helping, as my DM has allowed the plane hopping, as it is part in a way of the adventure itself. he is the creator of the story as you see it, and he has allowed me to play a priest from Faeruhn. Then ask them if the other stuff is okay. I'm not seeing how I can be helpful if ultimately, it's the DM that's going to decide all of this stuff. Why, it even says in the MM that Mummies are mostly LE, not always..and even demons who are "almost always" evil have their exceptions. That doesn't mean you can make Neutral Undead- which is what I would rule. I would rule it this way because creation of Undying (aka Good "Undead") requires either channeling of Positive Energy (which results in NG Deathless) or Negative Energy (which results in Evil ones). It's not only the nature of the energy, but the nature of the acts required to harness the energy in the first place. There is no Neutral energy, so I don't rule that there is a neutral ritual or creation process, and as a result, no way of creating Undead with Neutral alignment. And knowledge of how to use positive Energy to make Undying is chiefly in the domain of the Elves of Aerenal. Mummies may not always be Lawful Evil, but their creation involves "the auspices of dark desert gods best forgotten". I conclude that to mean Negative energy in some kind of Evil ritual. Pretty much all mummies in my campaign would be LE, NE, or CE. I can see something a Vampire perhaps changing their alignment later on (of course this would be the exception) but I would not see them starting off as anything but some kind of Evil. I'd also really play on the alignment thing, since it would be a general rejection of the very elements and factors that spawned them. But that's me. Edit: Actually I would say there is a neutral animation energy. The kind of energy that is infused into things via the Animate Object spell, Elementals, which can be bound into Golems, Automatons, and other Constructs, and as part of the force that animates Warforged. I was thinking of something like: Intelligent Skull, who gives the owner the Bards ability if a priest of Milil. Meaning its intelligence to give the owner some skills bonus, just like the DMG says in the rules for intelligent item creation, is that not expensive enough? And the same list also gives a way for getting some spells per day free..... I don't seem to be able to find the list you're referring to. My DM plays it along the lines that "smaller" but intelligent undead are treated better in their social standing then Warforged are, specifically in Karrnath. Ah, I see. So in this setting, things like Vampires and Liches are not unknown to walk down the streets of Karrnath, making no attempt to hide their Undead nature?
Burningspear 07-19-07, 02:53 PM	Then ask them if the other stuff is okay. I'm not seeing how I can be helpful if ultimately, it's the DM that's going to decide all of this stuff. true, i did not say your feedback was completely useless though :tie: That doesn't mean you can make Neutral Undead- which is what I would rule. I would rule it this way because creation of Undying (aka Good "Undead") requires either channeling of Positive Energy (which results in NG Deathless) or Negative Energy (which results in Evil ones). It's not only the nature of the energy, but the nature of the acts required to harness the energy in the first place. There is no Neutral energy, so I don't rule that there is a neutral ritual or creation process, and as a result, no way of creating Undead with Neutral alignment. I do not disagree on that logic. How much i dislike it though :plotting: And knowledge of how to use positive Energy to make Undying is chiefly in the domain of the Elves of Aerenal. Very true Mummies may not always be Lawful Evil, but their creation involves "the auspices of dark desert gods best forgotten". I conclude that to mean Negative energy in some kind of Evil ritual. Pretty much all mummies in my campaign would be LE, NE, or CE. I think that sentence should have been scrapped long time ago, as Osiris in Forgotten Reals also supports mummies as his god of Death portfolio..(just an example) I can see something a Vampire perhaps changing their alignment later on (of course this would be the exception) but I would not see them starting off as anything but some kind of Evil. I'd also really play on the alignment thing, since it would be a general rejection of the very elements and factors that spawned them. yes, true, but i dont see a Mummy as irredeemable just like a vampire he could change, specially with a LG mentor (or a godly supporter in the likes of Osiris, in the general debate) Edit: Actually I would say there is a neutral animation energy. The kind of energy that is infused into things via the Animate Object spell, Elementals, which can be bound into Golems, Automatons, and other Constructs, and as part of the force that animates Warforged. Interesting, but i don't like the thought of making a Animated Mummy Object, or do i? :plotting: I don't seem to be able to find the list you're referring to. Ah, I see. So in this setting, things like Vampires and Liches are not unknown to walk down the streets of Karrnath, making no attempt to hide their Undead nature? Page 269 DMG v.3.5 cost of intelligent items. well, somewhere in between that and the thoughts you seem to have, its like i am able to walk the streets but i do keep a hood up, ppl will not scream when they see me and will interact with me, even in Inn's and the like, i am actually a singing Huecuva :D, got a little fame in a village inn near Lakeside, and it made me think of creating a singing Choir ?sp?, Based in Vedykar... anyway i am digressing...lol
Need_A_Life 07-20-07, 09:09 AM	I am simply stating what would happen in standard Eberron, if an undead walked openly down the streets of Korth. In such a house-ruled campaign, I doubt I can be of much help. Worshipping a FR deity in Eberron is about where I drew the line with my former DM.
Alex_ 07-20-07, 12:56 PM	I think that sentence should have been scrapped long time ago, as Osiris in Forgotten Reals also supports mummies as his god of Death portfolio.(just an example) Not every individual who gets stuffed full of spices and wrapped in linens when they're burried rises as an Undead mummy. Mummification in this case, refers to the simple processes of dead preparation involving drying people out and wrapping them up. Osiris supports proper care and burial of the dead, not raising them as Undead. yes, true, but i dont see a Mummy as irredeemable just like a vampire he could change, specially with a LG mentor (or a godly supporter in the likes of Osiris, in the general debate) Oh sure you could redeem it. Might be hard considering Mummies usually have a 6 intelligent and rarely bother speaking, and can deliver debilitating diseases with a touch making life changing philosophical discussions rather difficult. Not saying it can't happen, but that knd of stuff is a plot hook or an adventure in and of itself (to me at least) not something that is done simply for player convenience. Page 269 DMG v.3.5 cost of intelligent items. I think I see the confusion here. These are not abilities the item gives to its owner. These are abilities the item itself has, and chooses to use. An intelligent item is essentially an NPC controlled by the DM. It may take the form of a +2 Flaming Longsword when you use it, but other than that, you get no benefits from it. However, the sword can have other properties or abilities that it chooses to use whenever it wants to. Most intelligent items have a specific goal or desire in mind (spread Evil, slay trolls, burn things) that their owner should be using them for before they'll decide to use abilities to help them. Your skull can have 10 ranks in any single Knowledge skill for 5000 gold, but Bardic Knowledge is a class ability, which Intelligent Items are not listed as being able to have. Furthermore, Bardic Knowledge is as useful as several Knowledge skills. The list involves no mention of allowing the caster to memorize more spells or have more spells per day. The item itself can have it's own spell like abilities a number of times per day, but using them is entirely up to the item (controlled by the DM). You can try to talk the item into using its abilities, but it cannot give them to you as your own. if you're asking if it would be alright to change it so that it gave you these abilities instead of the item itself having them, I'd say no as it would be very unbalanced. If you're asking how much it would cost in general, then you have to be more specific on what powers you want it to have.
Subtle Knife 07-23-07, 10:54 AM	hums "I'm an alien, I'm a legal alien, I'm a Faerunian in Sharn" Great Sting allusion! SK
Kensan_Oni 07-25-07, 03:53 PM	In general, when you want to create good undead, do the following 1) remove energy drains with healing effects 2) Replace Undead traits with Undying traits. 3) Instead of Darkness, use light effects. That should help as general guidelines for making new undying
Burningspear 07-25-07, 04:14 PM	In general, when you want to create good undead, do the following 1) remove energy drains with healing effects 2) Replace Undead traits with Undying traits. 3) Instead of Darkness, use light effects. That should help as general guidelines for making new undying Thnx for the tips, though i was not specifically looking for undying traits :), btw: "Playing an awakened primate, however, is beyond wrong. It's Discworld wrong." - Thindelock DISCWORLD IS SUPERCOOL :plotting: