Speak with dead vs. dead inspired? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Speak with dead vs. dead inspired? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Hyperlexic
09-23-07, 02:42 PM Folks,

I'm a GM, and my players have (surprisingly) managed to kill a major NPC - an inspired (possessed) telepath.

Now they want to interrogate the corpse via Speak with Dead. The question is what the corpse knows vs. what the departed quori spirit knew.

The text of the spell (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/speakWithDead.htm) says: "The corpse’s knowledge is limited to what the creature knew during life, including the languages it spoke (if any)... This spell does not let you actually speak to the person (whose soul has departed). It instead draws on the imprinted knowledge stored in the corpse. The partially animated body retains the imprint of the soul that once inhabited it, and thus it can speak with all the knowledge that the creature had while alive. The corpse, however, cannot learn new information."

So my basic question: when an inspired is being possessed by a quori spirit, does the Inspired actively know what's going on? Ie, does the quori spirit take over complete control of the body, pushing the Inspired soul out of the driver seat, or is more of a dual-ownership sort of thing?

Any suggestions on how to handle this?

thanks!
Alex_
09-23-07, 03:44 PM Folks,

I'm a GM, and my players have (surprisingly) managed to kill a major NPC - an inspired (possessed) telepath.

Now they want to interrogate the corpse via Speak with Dead. The question is what the corpse knows vs. what the departed quori spirit knew.

The text of the spell (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/speakWithDead.htm) says: "The corpse’s knowledge is limited to what the creature knew during life, including the languages it spoke (if any)... This spell does not let you actually speak to the person (whose soul has departed). It instead draws on the imprinted knowledge stored in the corpse. The partially animated body retains the imprint of the soul that once inhabited it, and thus it can speak with all the knowledge that the creature had while alive. The corpse, however, cannot learn new information."

So my basic question: when an inspired is being possessed by a quori spirit, does the Inspired actively know what's going on? Ie, does the quori spirit take over complete control of the body, pushing the Inspired soul out of the driver seat, or is more of a dual-ownership sort of thing?

Any suggestions on how to handle this?

thanks!

I don't think there is a ruling for it, which leaves you to fill in the gaps. I doubt your players would really question whatever you ruled either. I think you should go with what enhances the story the most, while detracting from it the least.So which option works best for what you want to do?

Do you want the corpse to retain all the knowledge of the Quori spirit and tell the PCs get a really clear picture of it knows? Do you want the corpse to tell them only what the Inspired him/herself knew prior to being possessed so they know virtually nothing the Quori knew? Do you want the corpse to use both, having the Inspired side describe events as if they were a vague lucid dream, so the PCs only get a partial picture? Or maybe something else.

If it were me, the Quori would probably know some reeeaaally important stuff that I wouldn't want the PCs to be able to figure out (stuff in general like Redria, plots to invade, etc) so the corpse wouldn't offer any useful information.

Just remember what option you chose and how it may effect future situations.
Vharuck
09-23-07, 04:31 PM Remember that the Inspired are only ever used by quori who lead Riedra. Quori who lead Riedra take orders from the Dreaming Dark, but are not really members. They'd mostly know about Dal Quor, the general goal of the Quori, and Riedran information. Specific plans the Dreaming Dark are formulating or carrying out aren't within the purview of any quori who has an inspired host.
deathbane
09-23-07, 08:39 PM Folks,

I'm a GM, and my players have (surprisingly) managed to kill a major NPC - an inspired (possessed) telepath.

Now they want to interrogate the corpse via Speak with Dead. The question is what the corpse knows vs. what the departed quori spirit knew.

The text of the spell (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/speakWithDead.htm) says: "The corpse’s knowledge is limited to what the creature knew during life, including the languages it spoke (if any)... This spell does not let you actually speak to the person (whose soul has departed). It instead draws on the imprinted knowledge stored in the corpse. The partially animated body retains the imprint of the soul that once inhabited it, and thus it can speak with all the knowledge that the creature had while alive. The corpse, however, cannot learn new information."

So my basic question: when an inspired is being possessed by a quori spirit, does the Inspired actively know what's going on? Ie, does the quori spirit take over complete control of the body, pushing the Inspired soul out of the driver seat, or is more of a dual-ownership sort of thing?

Any suggestions on how to handle this?

thanks!

The corpse would know about whatever actions took place on the material plane, but it does not have access to the quori's intentions and/or things that happen in Dal Qour.
ArcTan
09-24-07, 03:01 AM It's the corpse of the (quasi-)Human Inspired, not the corpse of the inhabiting Quori. The Inspired and the Quori may *act* like one person, but they're not (in fact, Quori can hop from Inspired to Inspired to carry out their goals).

Rule what you want, but to me it's pretty obvious that the body only knows what the Human Inspired knew in life, not everything the Quori knew. Note that that's still probably quite a bit of knowledge -- the Quori seem to share a lot more with the Inspired than most possessors do their hosts.
Hyperlexic
09-25-07, 10:41 AM Folks,

Thanks for the various replies. I understand that at most the corpse would have the knowledge of the Inspired, not the Quori; I'm just trying to figure out what the Inspired knows.

A few FAQ type questions:
1) are the Inspired 'possessed' in the normal sense of the word? Or is the Inspired more hosting the Quori as a passenger? Who is in charge of the corporeal body - the Inspired, the Quori, or both?

2) In normal possession, is the original owner of the body still conscious and observing what happens?

Thanks,
Theo
Vharuck
09-25-07, 02:05 PM Folks,

Thanks for the various replies. I understand that at most the corpse would have the knowledge of the Inspired, not the Quori; I'm just trying to figure out what the Inspired knows.

A few FAQ type questions:
1) are the Inspired 'possessed' in the normal sense of the word? Or is the Inspired more hosting the Quori as a passenger? Who is in charge of the corporeal body - the Inspired, the Quori, or both?

It is possession, but in this case the Inspired is totally submitting to the possessing spirit. The quori spirit has total control over the body.

2) In normal possession, is the original owner of the body still conscious and observing what happens?

If I remember correctly, it's possible. I think there are three states of possession: latent, struggling, and total (my terms, not official). Latent is when the possessing spirit is merely observing from within the possessed body. The host has full control over its body. Struggling is when both the host and the possessing spirit are conscious and can control the body (when opposed, this is played out in a battle of wills). They need not always be opposed; the host may give control to the spirit at times and the spirit relinquish control to the host willingly. In total possession, the host is unconscious and the possessing spirit has total control over the body. This is the Inspired.
Hellcow
09-25-07, 09:11 PM Just for my two crowns: Quori possession states that the quori gains access to the memories of the vessel, but the vessel does NOT gain access to the memories of the quori. So IMO, the corpse would retain the memory of everything that had gone on while the body was possessed - but wouldn't have access to any of the personal secrets of the quori spirit. The body of the Inspired ISN'T the body of the quori - it's just a set of clothes it's worn for a while.
Hyperlexic
09-26-07, 04:12 PM Ok - thanks, folks!

I think that my view is that the Inspired would be fully aware of what the body is doing, and would feel like it's her choice, but wouldn't understand why she was doing it, and she wouldn't have any access to the memories/knowledge of the Quori.

H.
deathbane
09-26-07, 05:00 PM Ok - thanks, folks!

I think that my view is that the Inspired would be fully aware of what the body is doing, and would feel like it's her choice, but wouldn't understand why she was doing it, and she wouldn't have any access to the memories/knowledge of the Quori.

H.

They are doing it because the qouri are enlightened creatures who only want what is best for them. That is not true, but that is what they beleive. Most people in Reidra(spelling?) don't even question anything, and those who do disappear.
Psionycx
09-26-07, 11:12 PM Just for my two crowns: Quori possession states that the quori gains access to the memories of the vessel, but the vessel does NOT gain access to the memories of the quori. So IMO, the corpse would retain the memory of everything that had gone on while the body was possessed - but wouldn't have access to any of the personal secrets of the quori spirit. The body of the Inspired ISN'T the body of the quori - it's just a set of clothes it's worn for a while.

Which makes perfect sense or else the quori would be loathe to ever possess a mortal because they'd be leaving a brain dump behind them in however many hosts they've ever occupied. Talk about having no secrets!

It would also make sense that the Empty Vessel would have memories of what occured in the presence of their body, although their spirit might not be able to answer questions about intent since they would only know what the quori did in their body, not why it did it.
Edymnion
10-11-07, 10:12 PM Another thing to remember, the Quori would not use an empty vessel to speak with another Quori, they would both just zip over to Dal Quor and speak directly.

I liken an empty vessel to a car. When the quori comes by, gets in, and drives it around, the car just goes where it's driver says. It doesn't have a choice, it doesn't know where its going, all it knows is "Turn left, go straight, etc".

Same with the Inspired.
When posessed, the Quori is in control. It can read the host's mind like a human driver reads the speedometer in their car. It can make the host go where it wants, and say what it wants. The host doesn't necissarily understand whats going on or why. For example, the Quori would know that he's going to meet with an undercover agent to slip them a magical item, but all the host would know is that they walked out to the pier, gave some weird thing to a fisherman, said something in a language he didn't understand, then went back home.

The vessel wouldn't necissarily know whats going on any more than your car understands what you're doing when you go to work or run an errand. They only see the tip of the iceburg, and unless it involved doing something that would give them hints at whats happening, they'd be clueless.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Hyperlexic 09-23-07, 02:42 PM	Folks, I'm a GM, and my players have (surprisingly) managed to kill a major NPC - an inspired (possessed) telepath. Now they want to interrogate the corpse via Speak with Dead. The question is what the corpse knows vs. what the departed quori spirit knew. The text of the spell (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/speakWithDead.htm) says: "The corpse’s knowledge is limited to what the creature knew during life, including the languages it spoke (if any)... This spell does not let you actually speak to the person (whose soul has departed). It instead draws on the imprinted knowledge stored in the corpse. The partially animated body retains the imprint of the soul that once inhabited it, and thus it can speak with all the knowledge that the creature had while alive. The corpse, however, cannot learn new information." So my basic question: when an inspired is being possessed by a quori spirit, does the Inspired actively know what's going on? Ie, does the quori spirit take over complete control of the body, pushing the Inspired soul out of the driver seat, or is more of a dual-ownership sort of thing? Any suggestions on how to handle this? thanks!
Alex_ 09-23-07, 03:44 PM	Folks, I'm a GM, and my players have (surprisingly) managed to kill a major NPC - an inspired (possessed) telepath. Now they want to interrogate the corpse via Speak with Dead. The question is what the corpse knows vs. what the departed quori spirit knew. The text of the spell (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/speakWithDead.htm) says: "The corpse’s knowledge is limited to what the creature knew during life, including the languages it spoke (if any)... This spell does not let you actually speak to the person (whose soul has departed). It instead draws on the imprinted knowledge stored in the corpse. The partially animated body retains the imprint of the soul that once inhabited it, and thus it can speak with all the knowledge that the creature had while alive. The corpse, however, cannot learn new information." So my basic question: when an inspired is being possessed by a quori spirit, does the Inspired actively know what's going on? Ie, does the quori spirit take over complete control of the body, pushing the Inspired soul out of the driver seat, or is more of a dual-ownership sort of thing? Any suggestions on how to handle this? thanks! I don't think there is a ruling for it, which leaves you to fill in the gaps. I doubt your players would really question whatever you ruled either. I think you should go with what enhances the story the most, while detracting from it the least.So which option works best for what you want to do? Do you want the corpse to retain all the knowledge of the Quori spirit and tell the PCs get a really clear picture of it knows? Do you want the corpse to tell them only what the Inspired him/herself knew prior to being possessed so they know virtually nothing the Quori knew? Do you want the corpse to use both, having the Inspired side describe events as if they were a vague lucid dream, so the PCs only get a partial picture? Or maybe something else. If it were me, the Quori would probably know some reeeaaally important stuff that I wouldn't want the PCs to be able to figure out (stuff in general like Redria, plots to invade, etc) so the corpse wouldn't offer any useful information. Just remember what option you chose and how it may effect future situations.
Vharuck 09-23-07, 04:31 PM	Remember that the Inspired are only ever used by quori who lead Riedra. Quori who lead Riedra take orders from the Dreaming Dark, but are not really members. They'd mostly know about Dal Quor, the general goal of the Quori, and Riedran information. Specific plans the Dreaming Dark are formulating or carrying out aren't within the purview of any quori who has an inspired host.
deathbane 09-23-07, 08:39 PM	Folks, I'm a GM, and my players have (surprisingly) managed to kill a major NPC - an inspired (possessed) telepath. Now they want to interrogate the corpse via Speak with Dead. The question is what the corpse knows vs. what the departed quori spirit knew. The text of the spell (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/speakWithDead.htm) says: "The corpse’s knowledge is limited to what the creature knew during life, including the languages it spoke (if any)... This spell does not let you actually speak to the person (whose soul has departed). It instead draws on the imprinted knowledge stored in the corpse. The partially animated body retains the imprint of the soul that once inhabited it, and thus it can speak with all the knowledge that the creature had while alive. The corpse, however, cannot learn new information." So my basic question: when an inspired is being possessed by a quori spirit, does the Inspired actively know what's going on? Ie, does the quori spirit take over complete control of the body, pushing the Inspired soul out of the driver seat, or is more of a dual-ownership sort of thing? Any suggestions on how to handle this? thanks! The corpse would know about whatever actions took place on the material plane, but it does not have access to the quori's intentions and/or things that happen in Dal Qour.
ArcTan 09-24-07, 03:01 AM	It's the corpse of the (quasi-)Human Inspired, not the corpse of the inhabiting Quori. The Inspired and the Quori may act like one person, but they're not (in fact, Quori can hop from Inspired to Inspired to carry out their goals). Rule what you want, but to me it's pretty obvious that the body only knows what the Human Inspired knew in life, not everything the Quori knew. Note that that's still probably quite a bit of knowledge -- the Quori seem to share a lot more with the Inspired than most possessors do their hosts.
Hyperlexic 09-25-07, 10:41 AM	Folks, Thanks for the various replies. I understand that at most the corpse would have the knowledge of the Inspired, not the Quori; I'm just trying to figure out what the Inspired knows. A few FAQ type questions: 1) are the Inspired 'possessed' in the normal sense of the word? Or is the Inspired more hosting the Quori as a passenger? Who is in charge of the corporeal body - the Inspired, the Quori, or both? 2) In normal possession, is the original owner of the body still conscious and observing what happens? Thanks, Theo
Vharuck 09-25-07, 02:05 PM	Folks, Thanks for the various replies. I understand that at most the corpse would have the knowledge of the Inspired, not the Quori; I'm just trying to figure out what the Inspired knows. A few FAQ type questions: 1) are the Inspired 'possessed' in the normal sense of the word? Or is the Inspired more hosting the Quori as a passenger? Who is in charge of the corporeal body - the Inspired, the Quori, or both? It is possession, but in this case the Inspired is totally submitting to the possessing spirit. The quori spirit has total control over the body. 2) In normal possession, is the original owner of the body still conscious and observing what happens? If I remember correctly, it's possible. I think there are three states of possession: latent, struggling, and total (my terms, not official). Latent is when the possessing spirit is merely observing from within the possessed body. The host has full control over its body. Struggling is when both the host and the possessing spirit are conscious and can control the body (when opposed, this is played out in a battle of wills). They need not always be opposed; the host may give control to the spirit at times and the spirit relinquish control to the host willingly. In total possession, the host is unconscious and the possessing spirit has total control over the body. This is the Inspired.
Hellcow 09-25-07, 09:11 PM	Just for my two crowns: Quori possession states that the quori gains access to the memories of the vessel, but the vessel does NOT gain access to the memories of the quori. So IMO, the corpse would retain the memory of everything that had gone on while the body was possessed - but wouldn't have access to any of the personal secrets of the quori spirit. The body of the Inspired ISN'T the body of the quori - it's just a set of clothes it's worn for a while.
Hyperlexic 09-26-07, 04:12 PM	Ok - thanks, folks! I think that my view is that the Inspired would be fully aware of what the body is doing, and would feel like it's her choice, but wouldn't understand why she was doing it, and she wouldn't have any access to the memories/knowledge of the Quori. H.
deathbane 09-26-07, 05:00 PM	Ok - thanks, folks! I think that my view is that the Inspired would be fully aware of what the body is doing, and would feel like it's her choice, but wouldn't understand why she was doing it, and she wouldn't have any access to the memories/knowledge of the Quori. H. They are doing it because the qouri are enlightened creatures who only want what is best for them. That is not true, but that is what they beleive. Most people in Reidra(spelling?) don't even question anything, and those who do disappear.
Psionycx 09-26-07, 11:12 PM	Just for my two crowns: Quori possession states that the quori gains access to the memories of the vessel, but the vessel does NOT gain access to the memories of the quori. So IMO, the corpse would retain the memory of everything that had gone on while the body was possessed - but wouldn't have access to any of the personal secrets of the quori spirit. The body of the Inspired ISN'T the body of the quori - it's just a set of clothes it's worn for a while. Which makes perfect sense or else the quori would be loathe to ever possess a mortal because they'd be leaving a brain dump behind them in however many hosts they've ever occupied. Talk about having no secrets! It would also make sense that the Empty Vessel would have memories of what occured in the presence of their body, although their spirit might not be able to answer questions about intent since they would only know what the quori did in their body, not why it did it.
Edymnion 10-11-07, 10:12 PM	Another thing to remember, the Quori would not use an empty vessel to speak with another Quori, they would both just zip over to Dal Quor and speak directly. I liken an empty vessel to a car. When the quori comes by, gets in, and drives it around, the car just goes where it's driver says. It doesn't have a choice, it doesn't know where its going, all it knows is "Turn left, go straight, etc". Same with the Inspired. When posessed, the Quori is in control. It can read the host's mind like a human driver reads the speedometer in their car. It can make the host go where it wants, and say what it wants. The host doesn't necissarily understand whats going on or why. For example, the Quori would know that he's going to meet with an undercover agent to slip them a magical item, but all the host would know is that they walked out to the pier, gave some weird thing to a fisherman, said something in a language he didn't understand, then went back home. The vessel wouldn't necissarily know whats going on any more than your car understands what you're doing when you go to work or run an errand. They only see the tip of the iceburg, and unless it involved doing something that would give them hints at whats happening, they'd be clueless.