spell power [Archive] - Wizards Community

spell power [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Altyrium
06-30-07, 05:17 PM so, ok, i was reading ECS and in there there's a feat called action surge i believe, that lets you spend 2 action points to gain another standard or move equivilent action in that round.
so i was thinking, with a mage lets say, you could use that and cast 2 spells in a round, thats damned handy. then i thought, well, what if i had a quickened spell too, then i could have 3 spells in a round!
has anyone every actually done that? if so, what spells did you use?
what spells would you use? make some neat ass combos for sure.
TiwazTyrsfist
07-01-07, 05:03 PM I'd cast fireball three times in rapid succession. But that's just my pyromania talking.
Darakhoranon
07-01-07, 05:25 PM I´m not absolutely sure if you can even do that, Altyrium. One "normal" spell, one quickened, one with action surge? You certainly can´t cast more than one quickened spell per round, but with that feat (and by paying the AP cost every time you use it), you might be able to pull it off.
I just wouldn´t use it for toasting a couple of rats...
For the final showdown with the BBEG, if your party needs a few buffs - or debuffs - (and needs them FAST), it might come in handy.
I would use this feat only for desperate situations - and then only for buffs/debuffs (or quick healing...).
Trying to cast 3 fireballs in one round is just asking for trouble - your DM won´t like it, and the other players will resent you taking out every enemy on your own. As a kind of "last resort", ok, but only as that.
Altyrium
07-01-07, 06:27 PM mmm, yes the buffs/debuffs would work out well in a quick little spurt there.
and three fireballs is just a waste IMO. why use three of the exact same spell, get creative, mix it up. if you wanted an apocalyptic 6 seconds as the opener to the combat get fancy and show off, isnt that what arcane magic was made for in the first place:P
i'd probably go with a slashing dispell, just in case he has magic on him at that time, then a spell like bestow curse of something, to weaken him further, and maybe, just maybe, an attack spell in there. but not fireball, something like maximized magic missile, so they hit and hurt, but the rest of the party gets some action too.
Nite_shade
07-01-07, 06:51 PM Why take a feat? The Belt of Battle from Magic Item Compendium grants an extra actions depending on how many charges you spend and it recharges daily.
Altyrium
07-01-07, 09:43 PM well i never knew that. that would also come in handy.
Esgay
07-08-07, 10:44 AM If you really want to take the biscuit, make each of those fireballs twinned, sure, you'll use up 3 level 7 spellslots and you'll need to sudden-quicken the quickened fireball to actually cast it but nothing says "die scum" like 6 fireballs in one round

for the higher level chaps take arcane thesis on your fireball and also prepare it as a repeating spell, next round you get 3 (or 6 depending on your DM) more fireballs.

3 9th level slots for 9 fireballs.
DarkAvatar
07-08-07, 11:40 AM Why take a feat? The Belt of Battle from Magic Item Compendium grants an extra actions depending on how many charges you spend and it recharges daily.

If theres a belt that does this (Don't have the compendium yet myself) would it be able to function in conjunction with the action surge feat to give you even more actions?! o_0

Note: As a DM I'd cause whatever wizard that tried to pull 4 spells out of 1 round (Without a Time stop :P) to take some serious mental strain... perhaps a few concentration checks? or backlash damage due to an overload of arcane energies?

what say you people?
Symar
07-08-07, 12:48 PM Note: As a DM I'd cause whatever wizard that tried to pull 4 spells out of 1 round (Without a Time stop :P) to take some serious mental strain... perhaps a few concentration checks? or backlash damage due to an overload of arcane energies?

what say you people?

Well, he can probably only do it once a day, if that, and it's using up a lot of his spell slots. The remaining encounters for the day he wouldn't be able to do anything like it. And if you're adding in the action point surge to the mix, that can only happen so many times per level!
Moldiver
07-11-07, 11:29 PM Well since Action Surge doesn't say it taking a type of action to activate. I don't see why you couldn't end up with up to four by doing this. It's a swift activation for the belt.

You could basically end up with two full round actions and another standard or move action on top of that. Normal action + all three charges from belt + action surge.
Altyrium
07-11-07, 11:34 PM man oh man, sure it'd take alot out of you, but that would be a ****ing mighty 6 seconds
Nite_shade
07-12-07, 03:56 PM Oooh, had an idea. Make yourself a Psion or Theurge and then you can also add Schism to the mix. A separate mind that can perform mental actions for even more spells or powers.
Altyrium
07-12-07, 07:32 PM man oh man, talk about power!
Kamikaze Chicken
07-13-07, 12:29 PM add the swift blade prc into this mix, and see the spell count rise........ btw you can find the swift blad eon the wizards site.

KAMIKAZE! :chicken: out.
GrimAlchemist
07-17-07, 09:52 PM Well, while it's fun to imagine a torrent of fireballs, you are limited to one immediate or swift action per round. You could Sudden Quicken a fireball, but you wouldn't be able use the belt to activate another one in the same round. So with action surge and a swift fireball, the maximum I could see in any round is three.
Moldiver
07-19-07, 12:10 AM Well, while it's fun to imagine a torrent of fireballs, you are limited to one immediate or swift action per round. You could Sudden Quicken a fireball, but you wouldn't be able use the belt to activate another one in the same round. So with action surge and a swift fireball, the maximum I could see in any round is three.

You're forgetting adding in a quickened spell. That is your fourth, which would be a free action.

Like I said, your swift is going to the belt to net you an action, probably the standard or full round. So now you've got a full round action and another full round or standard action. Then you add in action surge for an additional standard or move action. Plus your quickened, free action, on top of that, if you're really trying to abuse it.

It would all make it a great getaway device. Use the belt for an extra move action or full round action to double move, and be able to double move with your normal full action, then use action surge for another move. Pretty sweet for when you've just got to get away.
TiwazTyrsfist
07-19-07, 05:00 PM I believe that quicken spell has been retconned to a swift action, thus even if you prepare a swift fireball, and have sudden quicken spell, you can't cast both in one round, because it would be two swift actions.

However, a quickened spell (or sudden quickened), one regular spell that takes a standard or full round action, and one action surge spell that takes a standard action would be possible.

So, take the Energy Gestalt feat from Comp. Mage.
And this will take some discussion with your DM to see if he allows it, but I think it should work, since the normal requirement is consecutive rounds, and you're getting all three off in one round.

Also, I don't think the swift action has to happen first, I think it can come anywhere in the round, but you can adjust the spells if necesarry.

First a cold spell. Say a Cone of Cold.
Then an sonic spell. Shout. Anyone who took cold damage takes an extra 50% from the sonic damage, because of the brittle blast part of the feat.
Then an electric spell. Say Maximized Lightning bolt. Anyone who took cold damage and takes electric damage is slowed, or fatigued if they make the save.

All in one turn. Good use of a feat.
Need_A_Life
07-22-07, 04:21 PM I believe that quicken spell has been retconned to a swift action
Not quite... it shares many characteristics but it's in fact a free action that can be used once per round.

How does that differ from a swift action?

You could use another free action (that can be used only once per round) immediately after casting a quickened spell (such as activating a Slave Ring). You could not, however, use two swift actions in one round.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Altyrium 06-30-07, 05:17 PM	so, ok, i was reading ECS and in there there's a feat called action surge i believe, that lets you spend 2 action points to gain another standard or move equivilent action in that round. so i was thinking, with a mage lets say, you could use that and cast 2 spells in a round, thats damned handy. then i thought, well, what if i had a quickened spell too, then i could have 3 spells in a round! has anyone every actually done that? if so, what spells did you use? what spells would you use? make some neat ass combos for sure.
TiwazTyrsfist 07-01-07, 05:03 PM	I'd cast fireball three times in rapid succession. But that's just my pyromania talking.
Darakhoranon 07-01-07, 05:25 PM	I´m not absolutely sure if you can even do that, Altyrium. One "normal" spell, one quickened, one with action surge? You certainly can´t cast more than one quickened spell per round, but with that feat (and by paying the AP cost every time you use it), you might be able to pull it off. I just wouldn´t use it for toasting a couple of rats... For the final showdown with the BBEG, if your party needs a few buffs - or debuffs - (and needs them FAST), it might come in handy. I would use this feat only for desperate situations - and then only for buffs/debuffs (or quick healing...). Trying to cast 3 fireballs in one round is just asking for trouble - your DM won´t like it, and the other players will resent you taking out every enemy on your own. As a kind of "last resort", ok, but only as that.
Altyrium 07-01-07, 06:27 PM	mmm, yes the buffs/debuffs would work out well in a quick little spurt there. and three fireballs is just a waste IMO. why use three of the exact same spell, get creative, mix it up. if you wanted an apocalyptic 6 seconds as the opener to the combat get fancy and show off, isnt that what arcane magic was made for in the first place:P i'd probably go with a slashing dispell, just in case he has magic on him at that time, then a spell like bestow curse of something, to weaken him further, and maybe, just maybe, an attack spell in there. but not fireball, something like maximized magic missile, so they hit and hurt, but the rest of the party gets some action too.
Nite_shade 07-01-07, 06:51 PM	Why take a feat? The Belt of Battle from Magic Item Compendium grants an extra actions depending on how many charges you spend and it recharges daily.
Altyrium 07-01-07, 09:43 PM	well i never knew that. that would also come in handy.
Esgay 07-08-07, 10:44 AM	If you really want to take the biscuit, make each of those fireballs twinned, sure, you'll use up 3 level 7 spellslots and you'll need to sudden-quicken the quickened fireball to actually cast it but nothing says "die scum" like 6 fireballs in one round for the higher level chaps take arcane thesis on your fireball and also prepare it as a repeating spell, next round you get 3 (or 6 depending on your DM) more fireballs. 3 9th level slots for 9 fireballs.
DarkAvatar 07-08-07, 11:40 AM	Why take a feat? The Belt of Battle from Magic Item Compendium grants an extra actions depending on how many charges you spend and it recharges daily. If theres a belt that does this (Don't have the compendium yet myself) would it be able to function in conjunction with the action surge feat to give you even more actions?! o_0 Note: As a DM I'd cause whatever wizard that tried to pull 4 spells out of 1 round (Without a Time stop :P) to take some serious mental strain... perhaps a few concentration checks? or backlash damage due to an overload of arcane energies? what say you people?
Symar 07-08-07, 12:48 PM	Note: As a DM I'd cause whatever wizard that tried to pull 4 spells out of 1 round (Without a Time stop :P) to take some serious mental strain... perhaps a few concentration checks? or backlash damage due to an overload of arcane energies? what say you people? Well, he can probably only do it once a day, if that, and it's using up a lot of his spell slots. The remaining encounters for the day he wouldn't be able to do anything like it. And if you're adding in the action point surge to the mix, that can only happen so many times per level!
Moldiver 07-11-07, 11:29 PM	Well since Action Surge doesn't say it taking a type of action to activate. I don't see why you couldn't end up with up to four by doing this. It's a swift activation for the belt. You could basically end up with two full round actions and another standard or move action on top of that. Normal action + all three charges from belt + action surge.
Altyrium 07-11-07, 11:34 PM	man oh man, sure it'd take alot out of you, but that would be a ****ing mighty 6 seconds
Nite_shade 07-12-07, 03:56 PM	Oooh, had an idea. Make yourself a Psion or Theurge and then you can also add Schism to the mix. A separate mind that can perform mental actions for even more spells or powers.
Altyrium 07-12-07, 07:32 PM	man oh man, talk about power!
Kamikaze Chicken 07-13-07, 12:29 PM	add the swift blade prc into this mix, and see the spell count rise........ btw you can find the swift blad eon the wizards site. KAMIKAZE! :chicken: out.
GrimAlchemist 07-17-07, 09:52 PM	Well, while it's fun to imagine a torrent of fireballs, you are limited to one immediate or swift action per round. You could Sudden Quicken a fireball, but you wouldn't be able use the belt to activate another one in the same round. So with action surge and a swift fireball, the maximum I could see in any round is three.
Moldiver 07-19-07, 12:10 AM	Well, while it's fun to imagine a torrent of fireballs, you are limited to one immediate or swift action per round. You could Sudden Quicken a fireball, but you wouldn't be able use the belt to activate another one in the same round. So with action surge and a swift fireball, the maximum I could see in any round is three. You're forgetting adding in a quickened spell. That is your fourth, which would be a free action. Like I said, your swift is going to the belt to net you an action, probably the standard or full round. So now you've got a full round action and another full round or standard action. Then you add in action surge for an additional standard or move action. Plus your quickened, free action, on top of that, if you're really trying to abuse it. It would all make it a great getaway device. Use the belt for an extra move action or full round action to double move, and be able to double move with your normal full action, then use action surge for another move. Pretty sweet for when you've just got to get away.
TiwazTyrsfist 07-19-07, 05:00 PM	I believe that quicken spell has been retconned to a swift action, thus even if you prepare a swift fireball, and have sudden quicken spell, you can't cast both in one round, because it would be two swift actions. However, a quickened spell (or sudden quickened), one regular spell that takes a standard or full round action, and one action surge spell that takes a standard action would be possible. So, take the Energy Gestalt feat from Comp. Mage. And this will take some discussion with your DM to see if he allows it, but I think it should work, since the normal requirement is consecutive rounds, and you're getting all three off in one round. Also, I don't think the swift action has to happen first, I think it can come anywhere in the round, but you can adjust the spells if necesarry. First a cold spell. Say a Cone of Cold. Then an sonic spell. Shout. Anyone who took cold damage takes an extra 50% from the sonic damage, because of the brittle blast part of the feat. Then an electric spell. Say Maximized Lightning bolt. Anyone who took cold damage and takes electric damage is slowed, or fatigued if they make the save. All in one turn. Good use of a feat.
Need_A_Life 07-22-07, 04:21 PM	I believe that quicken spell has been retconned to a swift action Not quite... it shares many characteristics but it's in fact a free action that can be used once per round. How does that differ from a swift action? You could use another free action (that can be used only once per round) immediately after casting a quickened spell (such as activating a Slave Ring). You could not, however, use two swift actions in one round.