The Dreaming Dark [Archive] - Wizards Community

The Dreaming Dark [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Jaerom Darkwind
06-13-07, 02:33 PM Okay, I've read a lot of Eberon books, but I've found none really answer this question: what is the Dreaming Dark. Is it an actual entity, a spiritual force, an ethereal concept, or what? If it is an entity, how powerful is it? What is it capable of?

And other questions along those lines.

Any bits of knowledge you can offer would be appreciated.
From_Khyber
06-13-07, 03:06 PM Okay, I've read a lot of Eberon books, but I've found none really answer this question: what is the Dreaming Dark. Is it an actual entity, a spiritual force, an ethereal concept, or what? If it is an entity, how powerful is it? What is it capable of?

And other questions along those lines.

Any bits of knowledge you can offer would be appreciated.

Not to sound stupid, but itsn't it just the name of a Riedran organization?
The Dreaming Duck
06-13-07, 03:15 PM Okay, I've read a lot of Eberon books, but I've found none really answer this question: what is the Dreaming Dark.
If by "books" you mean "novels", you might find that The Dreaming Dark trilogy is what you're looking for.

With that said: The term "The Dreaming Dark" is used to refer to two entirely different entities.

The first is the being that the quori call il-Lashtavar, "the Darkness that Dreams". According to them, this is a spiritual force that shapes the Quori and Dal Quor itself. In many ways it is Dal Quor. However, it does not manifest as a humanoid being or act in a direct manner. The kalaraq Quori known as the Devourer of Dreams is said to commune with il-Lashtavar and serve as its voice in the world.

As I see it, a key here is that the Dreaming Dark doesn't walk around chatting with the Quori. But it doesn't have to, because they are part of it. It's like the difference between angels and humans - humans may question the existence of the divine, but the angel won't, because it is PART of the divine. The Quori don't need il-Lashtavar to walk among them, because they know that their form and the form of their world is defined by it.

The second force referred to as "The Dreaming Dark" is the network of spies and manipulators commanded by the Devourer of Dreams - the force that enacts il-Lashtavar's will (as conveyed by the Devourer of Dreams) on Eberron.

So il-Lashtavar is a spiritual entity, but it's not an archfiend or even a traditional god; it's the plane itself. You could make a comparison to Eberron itself, said to be an ancient dragon who became the world and created all life. You have a prophet (the DoD) who claims to know il-Lashtavar's will, but it's never something that's clear to all people - and anyone beside the Devourer who enters the darkness at the heart of Dal Quor is consumed and never returns.
The Dreaming Duck
06-13-07, 03:17 PM Not to sound stupid, but itsn't it just the name of a Riedran organization?
Nope. You know how the Path of Light reveres il-Yannah, the Great Light? Il-Yannah is the spirit of the NEXT age of Dal Quor. It's the light they hope to bring to their plane. Meanwhile, the spirit of the CURRENT age is il-Lashtavar - the Great Darkness that Dreams.

It's ALSO the name of a Riedran organization (well, a Quori organization with power in Riedra), but the organization is named after the spiritual force.
From_Khyber
06-13-07, 03:25 PM Nope. You know how the Path of Light reveres il-Yannah, the Great Light? Il-Yannah is the spirit of the NEXT age of Dal Quor. It's the light they hope to bring to their plane. Meanwhile, the spirit of the CURRENT age is il-Lashtavar - the Dreat Darkness that Dreams.

It's ALSO the name of a Riedran organization (well, a Quori organization with power in Riedra), but the organization is named after the spiritual force.

Thanks for that information, mate! :)
Jaerom Darkwind
06-13-07, 09:53 PM With that said: The term "The Dreaming Dark" is used to refer to two entirely different entities. Very interesting. Thanks.
heirodule
06-14-07, 03:51 PM My question more is how to avoid player knowledge/assumptions of the dreaming Dark immediately being behind a scheme whenever reirdrans are involved.
Hellcow
06-14-07, 06:29 PM My question more is how to avoid player knowledge/assumptions of the dreaming Dark immediately being behind a scheme whenever reirdrans are involved.
By having situations where it's not.

The Dreaming Dark isn't actually a Riedran organization. Because Riedra is working to build political capital with Khorvaire, it purposefully distances its operations from any official Riedran envoys. The Riedran ambassador in Sharn doesn't know anything about what the Dreaming Dark is up to in Sharn. You can mind probe him, zone of truth him, whatever you want; he's a Riedran ambassador who's job is to improve relations between Khorvaire and Riedra. Meanwhile, there IS a significant outpost of the Dreaming Dark in Sharn, but it doesn't involve Riedrans.

A quori can possess any willing human. An Inspired gets no penalty to disguise itself as human. The quori can use dream manipulation to affect events even where they have no physical agents. The Dreaming Dark focuses on subtle manipulation; open and obvious use of Riedran agents on hostile territory risks their long-term agenda. Note that this is different from placing Riedran troops in Q'barra, because these aren't agents of the Dreaming Dark; they are Riedrans, and their with permission of King Sebastes.

In my opinion, the place you're most likely to come face to face with Riedrans openly serving the Dreaming Dark (which is to say, without disguising themselves as members of another nationality) is in the wilds of Xen'drik, where they are outside any agenda or the public eye of Khorvaire.

So PLAYERS may know that the Riedrans are ruled by the Inspired and that the Inspired are quori and that the quori are ultimately guided by the Dreaming Dark. Most Riedrans don't know this, nor are most Riedrans agents of the Dreaming Dark; they are servants of the benevolent il-Altas of Riedra. In fact, they believe that the people of KHORVAIRE are immoral servants of demons. So how to stop players jumping to the wrong conclusion? Keep placing them in situations where it IS the wrong conclusion, which more often than not, it is. Throw in an agent of the Thousand Eyes who is actually opposed to the agenda of the Dreaming Dark (check page 61 of Secrets of Sarlona). Turn their expectations against them; that Riedran fisherman is a simple, honest, commoner 1 - but are they going to assume that he's a villainous mastermind just because he's Riedran? And if so, are they going to complete overlook the rakshasa who's ACTUALLY behind the plot?
heirodule
06-15-07, 04:29 PM Thanks. That helps

I'm in a special situation, GMing for Xendrik Expeditions.

my players, stop reading!

Since we're set in Xen'drik, I'm hoping to throw at them an inspired task force guarding a Quori creation forge that House Cannith held on to till the inspired took it from them.

I haven't had too much time to throw non-DD plots involving the inspired, and this would be my first DD plot using the inspired (because, frankly, the inspired are cool); since they're in Xen'drik, you're right, they would reasonably act openly as Rierdrans.

I guess I can keep in mind they might disguise themselves as regular humans. All the crystal weapons might give em away though :-) and the psionics, and the half-giant henchmen...

welcome to take plot help! They've actually already been to Dal Quor in dream and interacted with a (weaker) hassalaq who bears them ill will

Paul
Jaerom Darkwind
06-17-07, 11:36 PM New question: The Path of Light has clerics, mostly from the kalashtar. I'm going to assume that the Inspired (and the quori) don't include any clerics, but are there divine minds and ardents and so forth that revere the Dreaming Dark?
Nephallim
06-18-07, 02:52 PM New question: The Path of Light has clerics, mostly from the kalashtar. I'm going to assume that the Inspired (and the quori) don't include any clerics, but are there divine minds and ardents and so forth that revere the Dreaming Dark?

According to Secrets of Sarlona, there are some Riedran human and perhaps even Chosen adepts and clerics of the Path of Inspiration (the actual philosophy of the Riedran nation). However, these magic users are only kept around so long as they support the Inspired agenda...if they get in the way or start preaching 'heresy' they're done away with. I don't think SoS mentions anything about clerics of il-Lashtavar.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Jaerom Darkwind 06-13-07, 02:33 PM	Okay, I've read a lot of Eberon books, but I've found none really answer this question: what is the Dreaming Dark. Is it an actual entity, a spiritual force, an ethereal concept, or what? If it is an entity, how powerful is it? What is it capable of? And other questions along those lines. Any bits of knowledge you can offer would be appreciated.
From_Khyber 06-13-07, 03:06 PM	Okay, I've read a lot of Eberon books, but I've found none really answer this question: what is the Dreaming Dark. Is it an actual entity, a spiritual force, an ethereal concept, or what? If it is an entity, how powerful is it? What is it capable of? And other questions along those lines. Any bits of knowledge you can offer would be appreciated. Not to sound stupid, but itsn't it just the name of a Riedran organization?
The Dreaming Duck 06-13-07, 03:15 PM	Okay, I've read a lot of Eberon books, but I've found none really answer this question: what is the Dreaming Dark. If by "books" you mean "novels", you might find that The Dreaming Dark trilogy is what you're looking for. With that said: The term "The Dreaming Dark" is used to refer to two entirely different entities. The first is the being that the quori call il-Lashtavar, "the Darkness that Dreams". According to them, this is a spiritual force that shapes the Quori and Dal Quor itself. In many ways it is Dal Quor. However, it does not manifest as a humanoid being or act in a direct manner. The kalaraq Quori known as the Devourer of Dreams is said to commune with il-Lashtavar and serve as its voice in the world. As I see it, a key here is that the Dreaming Dark doesn't walk around chatting with the Quori. But it doesn't have to, because they are part of it. It's like the difference between angels and humans - humans may question the existence of the divine, but the angel won't, because it is PART of the divine. The Quori don't need il-Lashtavar to walk among them, because they know that their form and the form of their world is defined by it. The second force referred to as "The Dreaming Dark" is the network of spies and manipulators commanded by the Devourer of Dreams - the force that enacts il-Lashtavar's will (as conveyed by the Devourer of Dreams) on Eberron. So il-Lashtavar is a spiritual entity, but it's not an archfiend or even a traditional god; it's the plane itself. You could make a comparison to Eberron itself, said to be an ancient dragon who became the world and created all life. You have a prophet (the DoD) who claims to know il-Lashtavar's will, but it's never something that's clear to all people - and anyone beside the Devourer who enters the darkness at the heart of Dal Quor is consumed and never returns.
The Dreaming Duck 06-13-07, 03:17 PM	Not to sound stupid, but itsn't it just the name of a Riedran organization? Nope. You know how the Path of Light reveres il-Yannah, the Great Light? Il-Yannah is the spirit of the NEXT age of Dal Quor. It's the light they hope to bring to their plane. Meanwhile, the spirit of the CURRENT age is il-Lashtavar - the Great Darkness that Dreams. It's ALSO the name of a Riedran organization (well, a Quori organization with power in Riedra), but the organization is named after the spiritual force.
From_Khyber 06-13-07, 03:25 PM	Nope. You know how the Path of Light reveres il-Yannah, the Great Light? Il-Yannah is the spirit of the NEXT age of Dal Quor. It's the light they hope to bring to their plane. Meanwhile, the spirit of the CURRENT age is il-Lashtavar - the Dreat Darkness that Dreams. It's ALSO the name of a Riedran organization (well, a Quori organization with power in Riedra), but the organization is named after the spiritual force. Thanks for that information, mate! :)
Jaerom Darkwind 06-13-07, 09:53 PM	With that said: The term "The Dreaming Dark" is used to refer to two entirely different entities. Very interesting. Thanks.
heirodule 06-14-07, 03:51 PM	My question more is how to avoid player knowledge/assumptions of the dreaming Dark immediately being behind a scheme whenever reirdrans are involved.
Hellcow 06-14-07, 06:29 PM	My question more is how to avoid player knowledge/assumptions of the dreaming Dark immediately being behind a scheme whenever reirdrans are involved. By having situations where it's not. The Dreaming Dark isn't actually a Riedran organization. Because Riedra is working to build political capital with Khorvaire, it purposefully distances its operations from any official Riedran envoys. The Riedran ambassador in Sharn doesn't know anything about what the Dreaming Dark is up to in Sharn. You can mind probe him, zone of truth him, whatever you want; he's a Riedran ambassador who's job is to improve relations between Khorvaire and Riedra. Meanwhile, there IS a significant outpost of the Dreaming Dark in Sharn, but it doesn't involve Riedrans. A quori can possess any willing human. An Inspired gets no penalty to disguise itself as human. The quori can use dream manipulation to affect events even where they have no physical agents. The Dreaming Dark focuses on subtle manipulation; open and obvious use of Riedran agents on hostile territory risks their long-term agenda. Note that this is different from placing Riedran troops in Q'barra, because these aren't agents of the Dreaming Dark; they are Riedrans, and their with permission of King Sebastes. In my opinion, the place you're most likely to come face to face with Riedrans openly serving the Dreaming Dark (which is to say, without disguising themselves as members of another nationality) is in the wilds of Xen'drik, where they are outside any agenda or the public eye of Khorvaire. So PLAYERS may know that the Riedrans are ruled by the Inspired and that the Inspired are quori and that the quori are ultimately guided by the Dreaming Dark. Most Riedrans don't know this, nor are most Riedrans agents of the Dreaming Dark; they are servants of the benevolent il-Altas of Riedra. In fact, they believe that the people of KHORVAIRE are immoral servants of demons. So how to stop players jumping to the wrong conclusion? Keep placing them in situations where it IS the wrong conclusion, which more often than not, it is. Throw in an agent of the Thousand Eyes who is actually opposed to the agenda of the Dreaming Dark (check page 61 of Secrets of Sarlona). Turn their expectations against them; that Riedran fisherman is a simple, honest, commoner 1 - but are they going to assume that he's a villainous mastermind just because he's Riedran? And if so, are they going to complete overlook the rakshasa who's ACTUALLY behind the plot?
heirodule 06-15-07, 04:29 PM	Thanks. That helps I'm in a special situation, GMing for Xendrik Expeditions. my players, stop reading! Since we're set in Xen'drik, I'm hoping to throw at them an inspired task force guarding a Quori creation forge that House Cannith held on to till the inspired took it from them. I haven't had too much time to throw non-DD plots involving the inspired, and this would be my first DD plot using the inspired (because, frankly, the inspired are cool); since they're in Xen'drik, you're right, they would reasonably act openly as Rierdrans. I guess I can keep in mind they might disguise themselves as regular humans. All the crystal weapons might give em away though :-) and the psionics, and the half-giant henchmen... welcome to take plot help! They've actually already been to Dal Quor in dream and interacted with a (weaker) hassalaq who bears them ill will Paul
Jaerom Darkwind 06-17-07, 11:36 PM	New question: The Path of Light has clerics, mostly from the kalashtar. I'm going to assume that the Inspired (and the quori) don't include any clerics, but are there divine minds and ardents and so forth that revere the Dreaming Dark?
Nephallim 06-18-07, 02:52 PM	New question: The Path of Light has clerics, mostly from the kalashtar. I'm going to assume that the Inspired (and the quori) don't include any clerics, but are there divine minds and ardents and so forth that revere the Dreaming Dark? According to Secrets of Sarlona, there are some Riedran human and perhaps even Chosen adepts and clerics of the Path of Inspiration (the actual philosophy of the Riedran nation). However, these magic users are only kept around so long as they support the Inspired agenda...if they get in the way or start preaching 'heresy' they're done away with. I don't think SoS mentions anything about clerics of il-Lashtavar.