The Magewright: What can he really make? [Archive] - Wizards Community

The Magewright: What can he really make? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Neofish
07-04-07, 04:09 PM I've been looking over the class again and again, and other than everbright lanterns are possibly enchanting some armor and weapons, what can he really make?

Mr. Baker asserts that magewrights are the ones who craft most things, but how is that possible? Their spell list is far to limitting to allow most items to be crafted. Well, sure, you say artificer's could craft them scrolls, but artificer's scrolls are neither arcane nor divine, so that's out. Well, you say they could just use a minor scheme, save that they can't use the schema unless the spell or infusion is on their spell list or they make a UMD roll. Well, you say they just use enternal wands, except I thought that eternal wands were a product of the last war, and most cites and their wonders were produced when Galifar was around. Well, you say they just use eldrich machines to produce everything, then I say, who the hell made all the eldritch machines that seem to spring up whenever something hard to explain comes up.

So how do they do it? I am perplexed as to how they would accomplish thier basic function without the use of the UMD skill (which is not a class skill for them). It just seems to me that an Expert with the UMD skill could accomplish more than a Magewright. I dunno, please help me to see how this class provides a function other than eternal wand bearers.
Syltorian
07-04-07, 04:26 PM Mr. Baker asserts that magewrights are the ones who craft most things, but how is that possible?

Remember that "most things" in Eberron are not magical. The magewright's most important spell is magecraft, which provides a simple bonus on Craft checks. It allows them to reach high levels of quality in relatively short time, which is a valuable asset to the economy.

In essence, I believe the magewrights are more likely to use magic to support their mundane crafts, rather than go around creating magic stuff. That's what the much rarer artificers do.
Neofish
07-04-07, 04:32 PM Remember that "most things" in Eberron are not magical. The magewright's most important spell is magecraft, which provides a simple bonus on Craft checks. It allows them to reach high levels of quality in relatively short time, which is a valuable asset to the economy.

In essence, I believe the magewrights are more likely to use magic to support their mundane crafts, rather than go around creating magic stuff. That's what the much rarer artificers do.

But how is that really any different from having an expert with skill focus (Craftyness)? I guess because the magewright could have skill focus aswell?

Magewright= Master of the Mundane?
skeeter_dan
07-04-07, 04:57 PM Pretty much. Remember, it's an NPC class. It's just a simple way to explain the quality of technology available in Eberron as well as the abundance of very simple magical items.
Omnicronwarlord
07-04-07, 06:32 PM personally, I think you have to diregard the "Artificers scrolls are neither arcane or divine" because if they are... No one can use them but artificers. Surely the point of making scrolls for most people is to sell them (non-adventurers). While I put that rule in place for the party (so wizards dont end up with all spells in their spellbooks) (its a dm fiat thing for game balance) I disregard it for the wider world. Maybe PC artificers just have a hangup or something.
Syltorian
07-05-07, 08:59 AM But how is that really any different from having an expert with skill focus (Craftyness)? I guess because the magewright could have skill focus aswell?

Magewright= Master of the Mundane?

Yes. They are the specialists of their chosen craft. Essentially, they all get the same feats, access to mastework tools, and, though the expert gets more skillpoints, they both can max out their selected craft skill. Which leaves magecraft, making the lvl 1 magewright as good as a lvl 5 expert. Given that there's not many high-level characters around in Eberron, that means a lot.

Besides, as a spellcaster, he most likely has higher intelligence than the expert (affecting craft, again), though that is not in any way a rule.

The expert does get more skill points, so they can develop their diplomacy and appraise and sense-motive in addition to their craft, and might thus be better selling their ware. They can do other things. For Profession, the magewright might have some useful spells, but the expert is more versatile. But for craft, magewrights still beat him.

Also check out this dragonshard (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ebds/20040823a).
DBlizzard
07-05-07, 11:33 AM I'll note that Keith has a high level magewright (http://www.bossythecow.com/Golan%20Dol.pdf) on his homepage. He specifically uses DM fiat to allow him to use the Extra Spell feat to gain a spell not on his spell list (and to use it).

(And please, let's not get into the same tired old character optimization thread discussion about the correct interpretation of the Extra Spell feat, I'm just pointing out that Keith was allowing it, at least for this character).
TiwazTyrsfist
07-05-07, 12:59 PM I've always assumed that the magewrights were doing a lot of the grunt work on making big things.

I.E. We're making an airship/lightning rail coach/elemental galleon. Magewrights make the actual body of the vehicle. The prep the settings for elemental bindings, including cutting and setting the dragonshards. The artificer or wizard then comes in and does the heavy magic to bind the elemental.

Sure, the wizard did the actual binding, but the magewrights did 90-95% of the work.
Grymar
07-05-07, 03:20 PM How about a Cannith crafting team.

One artificer to five magewrights. The magewrights are doing the grunt work of the crafting, but the artificer goes around and supplies any needed spells for the items. It maximizes all of their time.
Kinger
07-05-07, 04:40 PM I wouldn't think it a bad idea to give the Magewright a second Spell Mastery-like ability every few levels that, rather than expand the spell list, allow the Magewright to craft items as if certain (perhaps only arcane) spells were on it. Fireball, for example, isn't on a Magewright's list, but with this ability he could still make a Flaming longsword.

I believe Hellcow has a sample "legendary" character on his website, for example, thats something like a 16th level Magewright, and his spell list was expanded somewhat to allow him to create something other than scrolls of Tenser's Floating Disk.
wizardguy2003
07-28-07, 11:32 PM personally, I think you have to diregard the "Artificers scrolls are neither arcane or divine" because if they are... No one can use them but artificers. Surely the point of making scrolls for most people is to sell them (non-adventurers). While I put that rule in place for the party (so wizards dont end up with all spells in their spellbooks) (its a dm fiat thing for game balance) I disregard it for the wider world. Maybe PC artificers just have a hangup or something.

It was my understanding that the lack of arcane or divine quality enabled others to more easily use scrolls, instead of having to rely on Use Magic Device rolls, not limit them to Artificers only.
stone_dog
07-29-07, 02:38 AM It was my understanding that the lack of arcane or divine quality enabled others to more easily use scrolls, instead of having to rely on Use Magic Device rolls, not limit them to Artificers only.

And to keep wizards from scribing scroll spells into their spellbook like they were freeware.
Dragom
07-29-07, 09:28 PM Their some of the best Alchemists... And a lot easier to find then other Casters...

But ya they probably don't do a lot of the Magic item Crafting in the world,

Except for the magic lifts in Sharn of course...

And most of the scrolls on my "I Can't Believe You Have That" list.

Though remeber your non-elite Magewright only get one spell at first level.

The Important question is if he can use his feat slots to pick up Spell Mastery?
The White Sorcerer
07-30-07, 08:34 AM The Important question is if he can use his feat slots to pick up Spell Mastery?

I'd have to say "No", since Spell Mastery requires one to be a wizard, which magewrights ain't.
Dragom
08-10-07, 07:06 PM I just realized something. A half dozen Magewrights working in tandem with a single Wizard can turn out a lot of cantrip and 1st level arcane scrolls in a single day.

The Magewrights make the scrolls and the Wizard supplies his entire daily alotement of spells.

A Sorcerer could do a similar thing with a larger staff of Magewrights but with a much more limited variety of scrolls.

Thus the Artificers dominion over scrolls is broken and 1st level wizard/sorcerer scrolls fill the shops of magical parafinalia.
Artemel
08-17-07, 11:00 AM Plus, remember that their are some items that only require Caster Level.

+2 Longswords? Yes please. Not only could a 6th level Magewright craft the magic component, but with the right skill points and casting mage craft and unseen crafter they could make the sword, too, and make it fast.

Or armor... or a handful of Wondrous items that only require CL, no spells... or they pay a caster to supply the spell... which in a decent item means they'll earn a slightly smaller profit. Oh, noes! =p

Something like that at least.
Dragom
08-17-07, 04:23 PM Mind finding a 6th level Magewright would be tricky.

As a professional he probably wouldn't deign to craft for someone who hasn't been refered to him by a trusted existing client.
Bluebrush
08-17-07, 05:33 PM Also, don't forget the potential of eldritch-machine like devices, which might allow, say, those crafting in an area to scribe scrolls as if they knew the Fireball spell and such.
Artemel
08-17-07, 05:35 PM Mind finding a 6th level Magewright would be tricky.

As a professional he probably wouldn't deign to craft for someone who hasn't been refered to him by a trusted existing client.
Why would a 6th level Magewright be hard to find?

A Thorp, the smallest town/village/whatever listed, has, on average, a 4.5 level Magewright. -.-

Going up to categories to a village almost guarentees a 6th level magewright.

Granted, not every 6th level magewright will have the feat you need though.

Still, there aren't all that rare. Head to Sharn. By the Demographics (in Dragonshards, on the Eberron website), Sharn would have three 15.5 level (call it 15) Magewrights. And, using the alt rules there for determing the rest of the magewrights, we are looking at Six at 13th level, Twelve at 11th level, Twenty-four at 9th level, Forty-eight at 7th level, 96 at 5th, 192 at 3rd, and a lot at 1st. -.-

Granted, that's an extreme case, but with almost one hundred magewrights of a level to have Craft Magic Arms and Armor, I think a few will have it.
Dragom
08-17-07, 05:49 PM I mean the dingy magic shop with Targath rings and mass produced 1st level spell scrolls and a small host of fake luck charms and love potions that would likely give you food poisoning that you would find most commonly wouldn't have one.

A 6th level or higher NPC usually has better things to do then mass produce stuff for the public.

He or she would probably have a contract with either a Government branch or a House or similar concern.

A contact with such a Magewright and his agreement to sneak your orders in to his busy work squedule would be in its self a story reward and part of a reason for a quest.
Artemel
08-17-07, 06:31 PM So he has a contract with House Cannith. Wee... makes things even easier.

Adventurer: "I've got a hunk of gold the size of a boulder. Can you make me a magic stick?"

House Cannith Representative: "Not personally, but we have plenty of people on staff who can." ::scans ledger:: "We can have it finished for you in 3 week. Good enough?"
Dragom
08-17-07, 08:57 PM Valid Point

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Neofish 07-04-07, 04:09 PM	I've been looking over the class again and again, and other than everbright lanterns are possibly enchanting some armor and weapons, what can he really make? Mr. Baker asserts that magewrights are the ones who craft most things, but how is that possible? Their spell list is far to limitting to allow most items to be crafted. Well, sure, you say artificer's could craft them scrolls, but artificer's scrolls are neither arcane nor divine, so that's out. Well, you say they could just use a minor scheme, save that they can't use the schema unless the spell or infusion is on their spell list or they make a UMD roll. Well, you say they just use enternal wands, except I thought that eternal wands were a product of the last war, and most cites and their wonders were produced when Galifar was around. Well, you say they just use eldrich machines to produce everything, then I say, who the hell made all the eldritch machines that seem to spring up whenever something hard to explain comes up. So how do they do it? I am perplexed as to how they would accomplish thier basic function without the use of the UMD skill (which is not a class skill for them). It just seems to me that an Expert with the UMD skill could accomplish more than a Magewright. I dunno, please help me to see how this class provides a function other than eternal wand bearers.
Syltorian 07-04-07, 04:26 PM	Mr. Baker asserts that magewrights are the ones who craft most things, but how is that possible? Remember that "most things" in Eberron are not magical. The magewright's most important spell is magecraft, which provides a simple bonus on Craft checks. It allows them to reach high levels of quality in relatively short time, which is a valuable asset to the economy. In essence, I believe the magewrights are more likely to use magic to support their mundane crafts, rather than go around creating magic stuff. That's what the much rarer artificers do.
Neofish 07-04-07, 04:32 PM	Remember that "most things" in Eberron are not magical. The magewright's most important spell is magecraft, which provides a simple bonus on Craft checks. It allows them to reach high levels of quality in relatively short time, which is a valuable asset to the economy. In essence, I believe the magewrights are more likely to use magic to support their mundane crafts, rather than go around creating magic stuff. That's what the much rarer artificers do. But how is that really any different from having an expert with skill focus (Craftyness)? I guess because the magewright could have skill focus aswell? Magewright= Master of the Mundane?
skeeter_dan 07-04-07, 04:57 PM	Pretty much. Remember, it's an NPC class. It's just a simple way to explain the quality of technology available in Eberron as well as the abundance of very simple magical items.
Omnicronwarlord 07-04-07, 06:32 PM	personally, I think you have to diregard the "Artificers scrolls are neither arcane or divine" because if they are... No one can use them but artificers. Surely the point of making scrolls for most people is to sell them (non-adventurers). While I put that rule in place for the party (so wizards dont end up with all spells in their spellbooks) (its a dm fiat thing for game balance) I disregard it for the wider world. Maybe PC artificers just have a hangup or something.
Syltorian 07-05-07, 08:59 AM	But how is that really any different from having an expert with skill focus (Craftyness)? I guess because the magewright could have skill focus aswell? Magewright= Master of the Mundane? Yes. They are the specialists of their chosen craft. Essentially, they all get the same feats, access to mastework tools, and, though the expert gets more skillpoints, they both can max out their selected craft skill. Which leaves magecraft, making the lvl 1 magewright as good as a lvl 5 expert. Given that there's not many high-level characters around in Eberron, that means a lot. Besides, as a spellcaster, he most likely has higher intelligence than the expert (affecting craft, again), though that is not in any way a rule. The expert does get more skill points, so they can develop their diplomacy and appraise and sense-motive in addition to their craft, and might thus be better selling their ware. They can do other things. For Profession, the magewright might have some useful spells, but the expert is more versatile. But for craft, magewrights still beat him. Also check out this dragonshard (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ebds/20040823a).
DBlizzard 07-05-07, 11:33 AM	I'll note that Keith has a high level magewright (http://www.bossythecow.com/Golan%20Dol.pdf) on his homepage. He specifically uses DM fiat to allow him to use the Extra Spell feat to gain a spell not on his spell list (and to use it). (And please, let's not get into the same tired old character optimization thread discussion about the correct interpretation of the Extra Spell feat, I'm just pointing out that Keith was allowing it, at least for this character).
TiwazTyrsfist 07-05-07, 12:59 PM	I've always assumed that the magewrights were doing a lot of the grunt work on making big things. I.E. We're making an airship/lightning rail coach/elemental galleon. Magewrights make the actual body of the vehicle. The prep the settings for elemental bindings, including cutting and setting the dragonshards. The artificer or wizard then comes in and does the heavy magic to bind the elemental. Sure, the wizard did the actual binding, but the magewrights did 90-95% of the work.
Grymar 07-05-07, 03:20 PM	How about a Cannith crafting team. One artificer to five magewrights. The magewrights are doing the grunt work of the crafting, but the artificer goes around and supplies any needed spells for the items. It maximizes all of their time.
Kinger 07-05-07, 04:40 PM	I wouldn't think it a bad idea to give the Magewright a second Spell Mastery-like ability every few levels that, rather than expand the spell list, allow the Magewright to craft items as if certain (perhaps only arcane) spells were on it. Fireball, for example, isn't on a Magewright's list, but with this ability he could still make a Flaming longsword. I believe Hellcow has a sample "legendary" character on his website, for example, thats something like a 16th level Magewright, and his spell list was expanded somewhat to allow him to create something other than scrolls of Tenser's Floating Disk.
wizardguy2003 07-28-07, 11:32 PM	personally, I think you have to diregard the "Artificers scrolls are neither arcane or divine" because if they are... No one can use them but artificers. Surely the point of making scrolls for most people is to sell them (non-adventurers). While I put that rule in place for the party (so wizards dont end up with all spells in their spellbooks) (its a dm fiat thing for game balance) I disregard it for the wider world. Maybe PC artificers just have a hangup or something. It was my understanding that the lack of arcane or divine quality enabled others to more easily use scrolls, instead of having to rely on Use Magic Device rolls, not limit them to Artificers only.
stone_dog 07-29-07, 02:38 AM	It was my understanding that the lack of arcane or divine quality enabled others to more easily use scrolls, instead of having to rely on Use Magic Device rolls, not limit them to Artificers only. And to keep wizards from scribing scroll spells into their spellbook like they were freeware.
Dragom 07-29-07, 09:28 PM	Their some of the best Alchemists... And a lot easier to find then other Casters... But ya they probably don't do a lot of the Magic item Crafting in the world, Except for the magic lifts in Sharn of course... And most of the scrolls on my "I Can't Believe You Have That" list. Though remeber your non-elite Magewright only get one spell at first level. The Important question is if he can use his feat slots to pick up Spell Mastery?
The White Sorcerer 07-30-07, 08:34 AM	The Important question is if he can use his feat slots to pick up Spell Mastery? I'd have to say "No", since Spell Mastery requires one to be a wizard, which magewrights ain't.
Dragom 08-10-07, 07:06 PM	I just realized something. A half dozen Magewrights working in tandem with a single Wizard can turn out a lot of cantrip and 1st level arcane scrolls in a single day. The Magewrights make the scrolls and the Wizard supplies his entire daily alotement of spells. A Sorcerer could do a similar thing with a larger staff of Magewrights but with a much more limited variety of scrolls. Thus the Artificers dominion over scrolls is broken and 1st level wizard/sorcerer scrolls fill the shops of magical parafinalia.
Artemel 08-17-07, 11:00 AM	Plus, remember that their are some items that only require Caster Level. +2 Longswords? Yes please. Not only could a 6th level Magewright craft the magic component, but with the right skill points and casting mage craft and unseen crafter they could make the sword, too, and make it fast. Or armor... or a handful of Wondrous items that only require CL, no spells... or they pay a caster to supply the spell... which in a decent item means they'll earn a slightly smaller profit. Oh, noes! =p Something like that at least.
Dragom 08-17-07, 04:23 PM	Mind finding a 6th level Magewright would be tricky. As a professional he probably wouldn't deign to craft for someone who hasn't been refered to him by a trusted existing client.
Bluebrush 08-17-07, 05:33 PM	Also, don't forget the potential of eldritch-machine like devices, which might allow, say, those crafting in an area to scribe scrolls as if they knew the Fireball spell and such.
Artemel 08-17-07, 05:35 PM	Mind finding a 6th level Magewright would be tricky. As a professional he probably wouldn't deign to craft for someone who hasn't been refered to him by a trusted existing client. Why would a 6th level Magewright be hard to find? A Thorp, the smallest town/village/whatever listed, has, on average, a 4.5 level Magewright. -.- Going up to categories to a village almost guarentees a 6th level magewright. Granted, not every 6th level magewright will have the feat you need though. Still, there aren't all that rare. Head to Sharn. By the Demographics (in Dragonshards, on the Eberron website), Sharn would have three 15.5 level (call it 15) Magewrights. And, using the alt rules there for determing the rest of the magewrights, we are looking at Six at 13th level, Twelve at 11th level, Twenty-four at 9th level, Forty-eight at 7th level, 96 at 5th, 192 at 3rd, and a lot at 1st. -.- Granted, that's an extreme case, but with almost one hundred magewrights of a level to have Craft Magic Arms and Armor, I think a few will have it.
Dragom 08-17-07, 05:49 PM	I mean the dingy magic shop with Targath rings and mass produced 1st level spell scrolls and a small host of fake luck charms and love potions that would likely give you food poisoning that you would find most commonly wouldn't have one. A 6th level or higher NPC usually has better things to do then mass produce stuff for the public. He or she would probably have a contract with either a Government branch or a House or similar concern. A contact with such a Magewright and his agreement to sneak your orders in to his busy work squedule would be in its self a story reward and part of a reason for a quest.
Artemel 08-17-07, 06:31 PM	So he has a contract with House Cannith. Wee... makes things even easier. Adventurer: "I've got a hunk of gold the size of a boulder. Can you make me a magic stick?" House Cannith Representative: "Not personally, but we have plenty of people on staff who can." ::scans ledger:: "We can have it finished for you in 3 week. Good enough?"
Dragom 08-17-07, 08:57 PM	Valid Point